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View Full Version : Pemmican, Paleo Lifestyle, and TEOTWAWKI (or a hiking trip...)


TaxAnnihilator
12-01-2011, 5:25 PM
So my CGN brethren, I have recently taken a look at the Standard American Diet (SAD) and not liked what I have seen. Obesity, Insulin resistance, leptin resistance, heart disease, you name it and SAD can cause it.

Although I have no health ailments, I have some family issues of some which got me researching into PREVENTATIVE (odd I know) measures. I found the recurring theme was in food choices. Further research led me to the concepts of the Paleo movement. I gave it a dedicated effort.

After 3 weeks of a semi stringent Paleo lifestyle implementation I am down 12lbs, stronger, thinking clearer, sleeping better and have a better mood (Now 6'1" 175lbs). My body has begun to rely on fats and protein for fuel, rather than needing to constantly eat to replenish sugar energy sources (sugar, carbs, starches, what ever you call them).

My initial end game was not to "eat only what our ancestors ate millions of years ago (like some in the Paleo/Primal community profess)" but to avoid foods that make me feel like ****. So, I still eat high fat grass-fed dairy (cheese and yogurt mostly), a bit of fermented sourdough, and wheat/soy/HFCS/PUFA free treats my girlfriend bakes.

Long story longer, I am eating a substantial amount of quality meats, seafood, and locally grown produce (in the process of removing concrete to grow my own food and get some chickens).

This lifestyle change got me thinking about the implications in SHTF, TEOTWAWKI, and my hiking adventures. SAD food currently depends on industrial agriculture that will certainly not be around in those situations. So when a person used to SAD runs out of grains, beans, ect. they are going to have a really crappy 4-10 days learning to eat primarily animal energy sources. This "transition" will lead to lethargy, poor mental clarity, weakness, and a feeling of sickness (I only had a few days of it, but did not enjoy it). Your body will be experiencing "sugar" withdrawals. Possibly putting your survival in jeopardy.

So what to do. When you look at the human body, we cannot store much sugar for energy, but can store substantial amounts of protein and fats for "emergency" use. The correlation between this biological fact and eating primarily protein and fats for energy seems like a no brainer. I asked, if we were meant to survive on sugars (grains are sugars) then why can't we store more than a few hundred grams of glycogen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycogen)?

My conclusion... we aren't. Thus, individuals who are already living according to our evolutionary design will have an advantage in the months following an "event."

Finally, to the Pemmican (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/www.traditionaltx.us/images/PEMMICAN.pdf). Apparently, Native Americans, military, and other "native" cultures used this product/processing method for the ultimate long term storage of high energy food (some reports of up to 20 years). It's made of a 50/50 ratio of protein and fat, 1/2 lb providing around 500 calories of long burning energy. Because of "health" regulations, the store bought stuff must be "cooked" to well done, killing many of the benefits, so I am interested in the method of the linked Pemmican Manual.

My question is (having read the answers of people who eat the stuff without consideration of SHTF or TEOTWAWKI) have any Calgunners eaten the stuff? Thoughts for use as a survival food?

I am counting on reasoned answers... I know I am a little out of mainstream with this, but aren't we all in our own ways.

Thanks for your time and comments.

- DM

dogtrainer
12-01-2011, 6:39 PM
Also consider the spiritual side to survival. During the three to four day transition from SAD to the Paleo subsistent diet you can rely on meditation or pray to overcome the physical-mental hurdles you may face.

Original Native people had a strong spiritual connection to nature and relied on this spirituality to bridge between hardships.

From what I have heard, Tom Brown teaches the spiritual and practical sides to survival at his school.

In conclusion mankind has been equipped to bridge hardships but learning how to meditate-pray is also a skill you must learn.

thenodnarb
12-01-2011, 6:51 PM
:rolleyes:
I walked into the wrong thread...

xrMike
12-02-2011, 10:56 AM
Hey TaxAnhilator, give me an idea of what your diet consists of for a few days, breakfast, lunch, and dinner, if you don't mind. Thanks. I want to try the paleo thing.

problemchild
12-02-2011, 11:19 AM
Funny....

Its used to be called the Atkins diet and yes it works great. I had a spell where I lost a ton of weight in 35 days. My problem with the diet is whole grains are good for you and so are vegetables and some fruit like blackberries. I also had a low grade headache the whole time I was on the diet (2 months) so I finally gave it up. I did feel a lot better on it but it was a pita do accomplish when away from the house. One thing I noticed is my allergies went completely away. The carb cravings are insane, worse than crack or smoking.

The best thing to get while out of the house is a protein-style quadruple cheeseburger from in-n-out. Yum!

teebiss
12-02-2011, 11:40 AM
I've lost 60 pounds in this year on Paleo.

Ironmany2k
12-02-2011, 1:16 PM
I've been listening to The Survival Podcast and he has me thinking of trying the Paleo diet. This Pemican sounds like it would be interesting to try.

http://www.natureskills.com/wild-foods/recipe-pemmican/

Untamed1972
12-02-2011, 1:24 PM
Funny....

Its used to be called the Atkins diet and yes it works great. I had a spell where I lost a ton of weight in 35 days. My problem with the diet is whole grains are good for you and so are vegetables and some fruit like blackberries. I also had a low grade headache the whole time I was on the diet (2 months) so I finally gave it up. I did feel a lot better on it but it was a pita do accomplish when away from the house. One thing I noticed is my allergies went completely away. The carb cravings are insane, worse than crack or smoking.

The best thing to get while out of the house is a protein-style quadruple cheeseburger from in-n-out. Yum!

Atkins and Paleo/Primal are not the same thing.

As for grains.....they aren't good for you....period!

Jsut this email article from Primal Blueprint today. Check it out

How Agriculture Ruined Your Health (and What to Do About It)
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/how-agriculture-ruined-your-health-and-what-to-do-about-it/

Untamed1972
12-02-2011, 1:27 PM
I've lost 60 pounds in this year on Paleo.

I dropped 30lbs myself and have kept it off for over a year now.

TaxAnnihilator
12-02-2011, 7:34 PM
Hey TaxAnhilator, give me an idea of what your diet consists of for a few days, breakfast, lunch, and dinner, if you don't mind. Thanks. I want to try the paleo thing.

I think that first you would want to toss out old notions of "breakfast foods" otherwise you may get sick of eggs. That said, I am primarily a pastured egg breakfast eater.

I make eggs with a variety of vegetables - spinach, shredded zucchini, mushrooms, tomatoes (all locally sourced at farmers markets or WF, Sprouts, Mothers - mostly organic). We also do grass fed raw milk cheeses and or pastured meat sausage or wild smoked salmon & capers. We have also started making "breads" with coconut or almond flour/meal. Pancakes were pretty good.

You can also do leftover meats from the night before. Google Paleo Breakfast for ideas.

For lunch and snacks (neither of which I need to eat everyday anymore) we do salads with line caught tuna, grass fed beef slices, or grilled pastured chicken. Of course you can prepare the meats in anyway you see fit, but when we cook in the house, it's usually on a cast iron grill or skillet with grass fed ghee (clarified butter) or coconut oil. Snacks are nuts (not peanuts which are legumes and contain lectin - research), cut up veggies, fruit, sardines, anchovies, paleo pork rinds, paleo kale chips...

Dinner is grass fed beef, pastured pork, wild salmon or other wild seafood & shellfish. Looking for a pastured buffalo too. Do a variety of vegetables, grillled, roasted, sauteed.

I made tomato sauce over spaghetti squash and sausages tonight. You'll want to become a user of a variety of spices to keep from getting bored.

Funny....

Its used to be called the Atkins diet and yes it works great. I had a spell where I lost a ton of weight in 35 days. My problem with the diet is whole grains are good for you and so are vegetables and some fruit like blackberries. I also had a low grade headache the whole time I was on the diet (2 months) so I finally gave it up. I did feel a lot better on it but it was a pita do accomplish when away from the house. One thing I noticed is my allergies went completely away. The carb cravings are insane, worse than crack or smoking.

The best thing to get while out of the house is a protein-style quadruple cheeseburger from in-n-out. Yum!

As it's been pointed out Paleo is certainly not Atkins. That school of thought has a few sound concepts blown away by outlandish claims of its purveyor. Paleo does not require "Induction" and is not a weight loss plan. It's a fundamental shift to eating quality naturally fed meats, fish, and chemical free produce.

Your headache likely was a result carbohydrate withdrawal combined with the lack of natural glycogen production during induction. Most people on Atkins get "Induction Flu" particularly if they were previously dependent on carbohydrates. Additionally, as you shed pounds toxins stored in your fat are released into your body. Drinking water to flush the toxins is imperative.

Eating a quadruple burger of grain fed beef that contains elevated Omega 6 is no good for anyone. An elevated Omega 6 to Omega 3 ratio in SAD has been connected to health problems.

problemchild
12-02-2011, 8:35 PM
I guess Im not too quick to jump on anything anyone is selling usually. If eating that way is so healthy its difficult to explain why people who ate that way only lived to mid 20's-30's and now we live to 80-100 now.

I did some work on a ranch for a guy a few years back who ate bacon and eggs and smoked 2 packs a day and he was 93 and strong as an Ox and totally healthy.

Watch out for the word "natural" and "organic" as they are over used and faked all the time. I read an article that said something only has to be 1% organic to be labeled organic. I read another article that said organic foods tested in a lab were just as full or chemicals as regular foods. One other thing I read said the ground has been so depleted of minerals all the food we eat is lacking something.

So who do you trust and is it worth it to spend 2-3x as much for the "organic" or "natural" label on food?

I cannot afford to shop whole foods market or any gucci stores.

I think the key is to eat everything in moderation and not overdo it. But I did feel better when I lowered my carbs. except for the headaches.

Wiki has some good info.

"Evidence suggests the diet of Stone Age humans did include, in some form, the refined starches and grains that are excluded from the Paleolithic diet. There is evidence that Paleolithic societies were processing cereals for food use at least as early as 23,000[80][81] or 30,000 years ago,[82] and possibly as early as 105,000[83] or 200,000 years ago.[84"

I think that first you would want to toss out old notions of "breakfast foods" otherwise you may get sick of eggs. That said, I am primarily a pastured egg breakfast eater.

I make eggs with a variety of vegetables - spinach, shredded zucchini, mushrooms, tomatoes (all locally sourced at farmers markets or WF, Sprouts, Mothers - mostly organic). We also do grass fed raw milk cheeses and or pastured meat sausage or wild smoked salmon & capers. We have also started making "breads" with coconut or almond flour/meal. Pancakes were pretty good.

You can also do leftover meats from the night before. Google Paleo Breakfast for ideas.

For lunch and snacks (neither of which I need to eat everyday anymore) we do salads with line caught tuna, grass fed beef slices, or grilled pastured chicken. Of course you can prepare the meats in anyway you see fit, but when we cook in the house, it's usually on a cast iron grill or skillet with grass fed ghee (clarified butter) or coconut oil. Snacks are nuts (not peanuts which are legumes and contain lectin - research), cut up veggies, fruit, sardines, anchovies, paleo pork rinds, paleo kale chips...

Dinner is grass fed beef, pastured pork, wild salmon or other wild seafood & shellfish. Looking for a pastured buffalo too. Do a variety of vegetables, grillled, roasted, sauteed.

I made tomato sauce over spaghetti squash and sausages tonight. You'll want to become a user of a variety of spices to keep from getting bored.



As it's been pointed out Paleo is certainly not Atkins. That school of thought has a few sound concepts blown away by outlandish claims of its purveyor. Paleo does not require "Induction" and is not a weight loss plan. It's a fundamental shift to eating quality naturally fed meats, fish, and chemical free produce.

Your headache likely was a result carbohydrate withdrawal combined with the lack of natural glycogen production during induction. Most people on Atkins get "Induction Flu" particularly if they were previously dependent on carbohydrates. Additionally, as you shed pounds toxins stored in your fat are released into your body. Drinking water to flush the toxins is imperative.

Eating a quadruple burger of grain fed beef that contains elevated Omega 6 is no good for anyone. An elevated Omega 6 to Omega 3 ratio in SAD has been connected to health problems.

TaxAnnihilator
12-03-2011, 1:29 PM
I guess Im not too quick to jump on anything anyone is selling usually. If eating that way is so healthy its difficult to explain why people who ate that way only lived to mid 20's-30's and now we live to 80-100 now.

Death was caused by disease and injury - not obesity, heart disease, diabetes, cancers, ect. I prefer to live long and drop dead rather than suffer a lifetime of illness.

I would put forth that I do not think that living longer is better, especially if you are just keeping sick people alive longer with artificial means.

I did some work on a ranch for a guy a few years back who ate bacon and eggs and smoked 2 packs a day and he was 93 and strong as an Ox and totally healthy.

This guy lived on a ranch and probably ate minimally processed foods his whole life. Also, given his age, the foods he ate as a child likely contained fewer chemicals than the foods produced today.

If he was like my smoker grandfather, he lived long and dropped dead rather quickly.

Watch out for the word "natural" and "organic" as they are over used and faked all the time. I read an article that said something only has to be 1% organic to be labeled organic. I read another article that said organic foods tested in a lab were just as full or chemicals as regular foods. One other thing I read said the ground has been so depleted of minerals all the food we eat is lacking something.

So who do you trust and is it worth it to spend 2-3x as much for the "organic" or "natural" label on food?

I cannot afford to shop whole foods market or any gucci stores.

I am attorney who has worked through the organic regulations on several occasions so save the "I read some article" for someone else. Further, nowhere did I say that organic was the be all end all of food. It's a start though.

For me, "Natural" and "Free Range" do not have legal definitions that are useful in making food choices.

I continue to research the companies that I shop from and eliminate those I do not believe fit the parameters I have set for myself.

For example, Costco sells an organic chicken that is fed organic soy and corn based feed and housed in slightly larger spaces than the horror story conditions your see on 20/20 or Dateline. I personally do not believe that chickens should be fed soy or kept indoors most of the day. You are free to disagree.

Your cost argument is spurious as well. If you eat ****ty foods, you pay with your health. Food has direct and indirect costs - as will everything else. Sure reloading your own ammo is cheaper than buying new, but you are also investing your time that could be spent making money (I find working with my hands relaxing, so I forgo hiring many things done even though the net cost to me is greater than if I were to hire it done).

Also, if you eat reasonable portions of foods, I have found that I am not spending more money, just getting less quantity at the added benefit of better health. Further, the energy I get from quality proteins, fats, and produce keep me full longer so I eat much less. Also, I use cooking with my family and friends as bonding time. Both gains in my book, irrespective of perceived cost.

I think the key is to eat everything in moderation and not overdo it. But I did feel better when I lowered my carbs. except for the headaches.


Agreed, but most people do not moderate their behavior otherwise a quarter of the population would not be overweight. I implore you to look at the decline of the health of Americans with an open mind.

"Evidence suggests the diet of Stone Age humans did include, in some form, the refined starches and grains that are excluded from the Paleolithic diet. There is evidence that Paleolithic societies were processing cereals for food use at least as early as 23,000[80][81] or 30,000 years ago,[82] and possibly as early as 105,000[83] or 200,000 years ago.[84"

If these ancient grains were available, I would eat them more readily. When I am doing extensive amounts of physical activity I am not opposed to use of sorghum - a more traditional grain. Or wild rice, which is really a grass.

Make no mistake though - the grains you buy daily are not what was consumed even a few thousand years ago. Further, nobody was eating the quantities the SAD contains.


In the end we could go back and forth on this all year, not something I have time for. So I'll live my way, others can live theirs.

LoooongGun
12-03-2011, 1:48 PM
"meditation" "transcendence" "prayer" "yoga" and all that Shirley Maclain/ěprah-based crap. Our paleo-ancestors did not make it to 100 yrs old by meditating about it. Hindus do not either. There is my body and then there is my mind. O.K., tell me what tastes good, but don't tell me to meditate and "imagine well-being," or psychosomaticize myself into a sense of wellness. You become a chanting pagan. On another tack: ever tried a Burger-King Veggie Burger? WOW! It iS good. Do please post or cite a few days' menus and get us on a roll. Your "life" does seem interesting, so don't be insulted by curious skeptics who just may really like you. Thanks for keeping it straightforward, and avoiding argumentativeness.

EL_NinO619
12-03-2011, 2:57 PM
I just ordered a book about it, Well see where it goes. Thanks For the info....

problemchild
12-03-2011, 6:08 PM
Im not against your way of eating just doubtful that the labels and food are really what they say they are.

I do believe that eating veggies and fish is healthy but the fish has mercury and other toxins. Meat has antibiotics and other toxins. Grass fed meat has nuke radiation from Japan. Everything is contaminated in some form if you look hard enough.

Japanese seem to be healthy eating fish, rice and veggies. Japanese do not have, for the most part, diabetes or heart problems.

Even saying all that I agree that eating healthy is the way to go. I only eat food made from scratch like my grand parents used to do. Its the best I can do for now. One last thing is no matter what you eat you cannot stop old age. I had a friend that was eating super healthy, running marathons and he dropped dead at his back door instantly at the ripe age of 49.


Death was caused by disease and injury - not obesity, heart disease, diabetes, cancers, ect. I prefer to live long and drop dead rather than suffer a lifetime of illness.

I would put forth that I do not think that living longer is better, especially if you are just keeping sick people alive longer with artificial means.



This guy lived on a ranch and probably ate minimally processed foods his whole life. Also, given his age, the foods he ate as a child likely contained fewer chemicals than the foods produced today.

If he was like my smoker grandfather, he lived long and dropped dead rather quickly.



I am attorney who has worked through the organic regulations on several occasions so save the "I read some article" for someone else. Further, nowhere did I say that organic was the be all end all of food. It's a start though.

For me, "Natural" and "Free Range" do not have legal definitions that are useful in making food choices.

I continue to research the companies that I shop from and eliminate those I do not believe fit the parameters I have set for myself.

For example, Costco sells an organic chicken that is fed organic soy and corn based feed and housed in slightly larger spaces than the horror story conditions your see on 20/20 or Dateline. I personally do not believe that chickens should be fed soy or kept indoors most of the day. You are free to disagree.

Your cost argument is spurious as well. If you eat ****ty foods, you pay with your health. Food has direct and indirect costs - as will everything else. Sure reloading your own ammo is cheaper than buying new, but you are also investing your time that could be spent making money (I find working with my hands relaxing, so I forgo hiring many things done even though the net cost to me is greater than if I were to hire it done).

Also, if you eat reasonable portions of foods, I have found that I am not spending more money, just getting less quantity at the added benefit of better health. Further, the energy I get from quality proteins, fats, and produce keep me full longer so I eat much less. Also, I use cooking with my family and friends as bonding time. Both gains in my book, irrespective of perceived cost.



Agreed, but most people do not moderate their behavior otherwise a quarter of the population would not be overweight. I implore you to look at the decline of the health of Americans with an open mind.



If these ancient grains were available, I would eat them more readily. When I am doing extensive amounts of physical activity I am not opposed to use of sorghum - a more traditional grain. Or wild rice, which is really a grass.

Make no mistake though - the grains you buy daily are not what was consumed even a few thousand years ago. Further, nobody was eating the quantities the SAD contains.


In the end we could go back and forth on this all year, not something I have time for. So I'll live my way, others can live theirs.

Taidaisher
12-04-2011, 5:50 AM
I have some friends at work who are probably as health conscientious as some of us are prep conscientious. They Crossfit and Paleo. Neither of them was overweight to begin with, but they have both trimmed down and become much more defined physically.

I myself have lost about 25lbs since June, kept it off, and am still losing. All I did was lessen my sugar intake and watched how and what I eat. I like the tenets of the Paleo diet because of the emphasis on avoiding pre(which by today's definition means overly)processed foods. The less crap you put into your body the less crap your body becomes.
I too have noticed, since my weight loss, decreased general pain and an increase in my capabilities across the board.

DiscoBayJoe
12-04-2011, 5:55 AM
I've known this guy for a long time (I went to school with his younger brother). He adopted a Paleo lifestyle a few years ago and has made a blog about it:

http://freetheanimal.com/

He's transformed himself thru it. I don't have the discipline to follow-along, but it's pretty impressive.

r3dn3ck
12-04-2011, 6:58 AM
giggle... "paleo" diet was whatever they could get hold of preserved any way they could on those rare occasions when there was a surplus but mostly it was undernourished unvaried and constantly searching for more food. What it was not was varied or entirely healthy. What it was was just barely enough. No fat indians right. Anyone ever see a picture from the old west of a 100yr old indian? No because there were none. They died in early middle age most of the time.

All this atkins, freegan, raw, paleo, gluten free, soy free nonsense is just that. There is no right diet because man did not evolve with 1 diet. The diaspora forced the diets like the ethnicities to vary. There are regional diets that people evolved to tolerate period. Use what you're evolved to use.

I find it funny as hell that people are into caveman food now. It's the only thing they haven't tried I guess.

problemchild
12-04-2011, 7:58 AM
giggle... "paleo" diet was whatever they could get hold of preserved any way they could on those rare occasions when there was a surplus but mostly it was undernourished unvaried and constantly searching for more food. What it was not was varied or entirely healthy. What it was was just barely enough. No fat indians right. Anyone ever see a picture from the old west of a 100yr old indian? No because there were none. They died in early middle age most of the time.

All this atkins, freegan, raw, paleo, gluten free, soy free nonsense is just that. There is no right diet because man did not evolve with 1 diet. The diaspora forced the diets like the ethnicities to vary. There are regional diets that people evolved to tolerate period. Use what you're evolved to use.

I find it funny as hell that people are into caveman food now. It's the only thing they haven't tried I guess.

I was thinking the same thing only I did not want to be the first to post it. The caveman must have eaten, depending where he was, a lot of rotten raw meat. The caveman didnt have fire and didnt know how to boil water.

Id would like to see some city slickers drink from Sierra streams for 6 months and eat raw meat and food. Most would dead in 30 days.

Dion
12-04-2011, 8:19 AM
My wife and I are big on food, and this did cross my mind when I switched to vegetarianism. MY wife is a vegan. Before you get your panties in a bunch over vegetarianism/veganism, let me start off by saying that the ONLY reason why I made the switch is because I happen to live in a 1st world, rich country that affords me to do so - there are hundreds of reasons for my switch, but it is mainly due to the way the meat is handled and ethical reasons, as well. If SHTF, I would have no issue with hunting and eating wild game, as I don't take issue with it now. I absolutely, 100% support hunters who eat their game or hunt for population control.

No need to lecture me on how I am "lacking" in my diet. Cycling 60-100 miles a week, cycling hill climb elevation gains of 1200 ft/ride, averaging 1000-1200 calories a ride (raising my heart rate to 95% of my max) and cross-fit training twice a week tells me otherwise. :) I spend 4-5 days a week in the woods, alone, with myself and my mountain bike. If the trails are closed to bikes due to weather, I'm running those trails on foot. No hippy city slicker, here.

The thing about "Paleo" though, is that in this society, it still isn't true "Paleo" - unless you're like Ted Nugent who grows and hunts his own animals on his land. We still have to buy faceless, beginning-to-rot, brown meat in styrofoam and plastic wrap. This meat is still "processed" and is a FAR cry from what early humans ate. It is fattened meat, raised on corn and grain (as opposed to grass). Chickens are pumped full of chemicals so they are so fat, they can't even stand up on their own legs, then they live a life wading in their own feces.

This is not Paleo at all. It is a wealthy first world country that fools itself into thinking they are connecting to the long-gone past. You still get dressed with clothes that were made somewhere else and shipped over, get in a car with climate control and pay with a plastic card - not chucking spears at a wild hog and a running around in loin cloth.

I agree with the Paleo diet because it does eliminate processed foods a lot - and that's a very good thing. Processed, starchy, sugary foods are generally very bad for you, but it's hard to get away from them in our rich society. We also shouldn't fool ourselves that we are "going back to the way our ancestors did it" because buying meat at a supermarket is not the same - meat is extremely abundant, and for early humans, it wasn't at all. You burn 100 calories to acquire a steak, not 3000 like they way early humans did. The animals we eat, in our rich, modern society, don't run away or fight back.

I eat processed foods/drinks and eat a lot of natural foods/drinks, too. But I'm not going to kid myself to where this stuff comes from. Even the "natural" foods I eat, I did not grow them myself. They were picked by laborers, trucked in on modern machines, and I bought them with "money" that was electronically transferred to my bank account, which is accessed with a plastic card and a pin number. Paleo, huh? :D

problemchild
12-04-2011, 12:23 PM
I want to repeat that I think eating the way the OP mentioned is a good idea if you can afford it. Eating lean meat and veggies and some fruits is never a bad choice

With that said Im not going to feel guilty for living in the best country on earth with freedoms that allow me to choose when and what I eat. I try my best to eat made from scratch food but who knows where it came from or whats in it.

I know they put arsenic in chickens food to plump them up and keep them from getting sick. Arsenic is not a good thing to eat. I think arsenic was found in about 95% of chicken meat tested including organic, free range and zacky.

My wife and I are big on food, and this did cross my mind when I switched to vegetarianism. MY wife is a vegan. Before you get your panties in a bunch over vegetarianism/veganism, let me start off by saying that the ONLY reason why I made the switch is because I happen to live in a 1st world, rich country that affords me to do so - there are hundreds of reasons for my switch, but it is mainly due to the way the meat is handled and ethical reasons, as well. If SHTF, I would have no issue with hunting and eating wild game, as I don't take issue with it now. I absolutely, 100% support hunters who eat their game or hunt for population control.

No need to lecture me on how I am "lacking" in my diet. Cycling 60-100 miles a week, cycling hill climb elevation gains of 1200 ft/ride, averaging 1000-1200 calories a ride (raising my heart rate to 95% of my max) and cross-fit training twice a week tells me otherwise. :) I spend 4-5 days a week in the woods, alone, with myself and my mountain bike. If the trails are closed to bikes due to weather, I'm running those trails on foot. No hippy city slicker, here.

The thing about "Paleo" though, is that in this society, it still isn't true "Paleo" - unless you're like Ted Nugent who grows and hunts his own animals on his land. We still have to buy faceless, beginning-to-rot, brown meat in styrofoam and plastic wrap. This meat is still "processed" and is a FAR cry from what early humans ate. It is fattened meat, raised on corn and grain (as opposed to grass). Chickens are pumped full of chemicals so they are so fat, they can't even stand up on their own legs, then they live a life wading in their own feces.

This is not Paleo at all. It is a wealthy first world country that fools itself into thinking they are connecting to the long-gone past. You still get dressed with clothes that were made somewhere else and shipped over, get in a car with climate control and pay with a plastic card - not chucking spears at a wild hog and a running around in loin cloth.

I agree with the Paleo diet because it does eliminate processed foods a lot - and that's a very good thing. Processed, starchy, sugary foods are generally very bad for you, but it's hard to get away from them in our rich society. We also shouldn't fool ourselves that we are "going back to the way our ancestors did it" because buying meat at a supermarket is not the same - meat is extremely abundant, and for early humans, it wasn't at all. You burn 100 calories to acquire a steak, not 3000 like they way early humans did. The animals we eat, in our rich, modern society, don't run away or fight back.

I eat processed foods/drinks and eat a lot of natural foods/drinks, too. But I'm not going to kid myself to where this stuff comes from. Even the "natural" foods I eat, I did not grow them myself. They were picked by laborers, trucked in on modern machines, and I bought them with "money" that was electronically transferred to my bank account, which is accessed with a plastic card and a pin number. Paleo, huh? :D

Avarice
12-04-2011, 1:17 PM
Pemmican is awesome, you can survive on it a long time. Problem is that you can't find it on a shelf, and even if you did, you wouldn't want to eat it. Gotta find some good Bison provider and make it yourself. If you find a provider, let us all know so we can piggyback.

I own an organic food store, there's a few Paleos in town. Really fit healthy people. I personally think you should take a look at the blood type diet. Not because I think you will change your mind, it's that you will find that the O blood time is supposed to eat the paleo diet. Oversimplified A & B adds grains, but they all include lots of good vegetables grown without pesticides and chemical ferts, and meat without added hormones and antibiotics.

In Yucaipa, we've got a small group trying to return to locally grown barter systems. It's harder, and it's not perfect, but anyone interested in a paleo diet should start such a group. You might even find some local pasture raised beef. The only thing limiting you to a Vons or a Wholefoods is your ability to break free of the system of dependency.

TaxAnnihilator
12-08-2011, 11:50 AM
Im not against your way of eating just doubtful that the labels and food are really what they say they are. Me too. I try to visit my farms.

I had a friend that was eating super healthy, running marathons and he dropped dead at his back door instantly at the ripe age of 49.


I am sorry for the loss of your friend. I have read many studies about the negative effects of extended "healthy" exercise. Running long distances for no purpose is unnatural and can lead to ... heart problems.

TaxAnnihilator
12-08-2011, 12:33 PM
I was thinking the same thing only I did not want to be the first to post it. The caveman must have eaten, depending where he was, a lot of rotten raw meat. The caveman didnt have fire and didnt know how to boil water.

Id would like to see some city slickers drink from Sierra streams for 6 months and eat raw meat and food. Most would dead in 30 days.

This is entirely untrue. Humans have been cooking, by some estimates for 2 million, and many others at minimum 750k years. Cooking food allowed us to obtain more nutrients from the food we ate. One result was substantially larger brains!

One of many articles on the subject about cook here (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128849908) (at end of article). NPR I know, it came up first though. I am looking for scientific journals to back this up. Also check out the TV version on Science Channel (http://science.discovery.com/tv-schedules/special.html?paid=48.16352.130593.0.0).

I have a natural drive to research and learn - the choice to change my lifestyle away from the foods that make me feel like **** was not on a whim. Speaking of, take a look at google scholar for articles if you too want to boost your knowledge on this subject. I am reading about obesity and food subsidies now, which brings me to my final point.

I had a giant Costco USDA Choice grain finished steak last night (not all cows are fed grass at one point and typically fattened up on cheap subsidized grains prior to slaughter...) topped with blue cheese with a side steamed sweat potato and coconut oil. It was good!

TaxAnnihilator
12-08-2011, 2:17 PM
Pemmican is awesome, you can survive on it a long time. Problem is that you can't find it on a shelf, and even if you did, you wouldn't want to eat it. Gotta find some good Bison provider and make it yourself. If you find a provider, let us all know so we can piggyback.

I own an organic food store, there's a few Paleos in town. Really fit healthy people. I personally think you should take a look at the blood type diet. Not because I think you will change your mind, it's that you will find that the O blood time is supposed to eat the paleo diet. Oversimplified A & B adds grains, but they all include lots of good vegetables grown without pesticides and chemical ferts, and meat without added hormones and antibiotics.

In Yucaipa, we've got a small group trying to return to locally grown barter systems. It's harder, and it's not perfect, but anyone interested in a paleo diet should start such a group. You might even find some local pasture raised beef. The only thing limiting you to a Vons or a Wholefoods is your ability to break free of the system of dependency.

5 Bar Beef is locally finished at Trabuco Ranch. The beef is good, but the Barzona breed does not have the same taste as a good Waygu. In any case, I am trying to get them to CSA and/or find people to go in on a whole animal.

Will take a look at your other suggestions as well. Thanks.

Turk
12-08-2011, 3:26 PM
Atkins is not the same thing as Paleo PC. Atkins is almost no Carbs , Paleo is fiber carbs whole veggies and high fat nuts like almonds.