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mxpatriot51
02-28-2007, 2:57 PM
Okay, just curious here:

Would it be legal if you borrowed a high capacity magazine (pre-ban) from a friend/relative to use in a gripless lower?

I'm 99% sure it wouldn't be, unless they are present. Just want to see what everyone else thinks.

aklover_91
02-28-2007, 3:00 PM
you got it nailed

NRAhighpowershooter
02-28-2007, 3:08 PM
you got it nailed

Ditto.........

pksbshp
02-28-2007, 3:22 PM
Correct, you cannot use or borrow unless the owner of the HI-Caps are present.

Solidsnake87
02-28-2007, 3:26 PM
The law says you can not lend or borrow I believe. Good luck catching you though:D! lol

AJAX22
02-28-2007, 3:38 PM
Borrowing magazines is compleatly illeagle if you are not physically present, I sugest you reclaim your property immediatly before you are subject to legal action.

bwiese
02-28-2007, 3:42 PM
Correct, you cannot use or borrow unless the owner of the HI-Caps are present.

Yep. The owner of the hicaps has to be present.

The lendee can't visit the lender at his home, borrow the mags for a day and return thim in the evening after spending the day at the range, etc.

DIG
02-28-2007, 3:43 PM
Correct, you cannot use or borrow unless the owner of the HI-Caps are present.

+1..

mxpatriot51
02-28-2007, 4:19 PM
The law says you can not lend or borrow I believe. Good luck catching you though:D! lol


I'd bet thousands of people have bought high capacity magazines from other people for use in their gripless OLL's. Is there really any way to tell that you didn't orginally buy that pre-ban magazine? (not advocating doing anything illegal here, just curious).

Geoffkoop
02-28-2007, 4:23 PM
I'd bet thousands of people have bought high capacity magazines from other people for use in their gripless OLL's. Is there really any way to tell that you didn't orginally buy that pre-ban magazine? (not advocating doing anything illegal here, just curious).

yeah, how the heck would anyone know if you owned it from before or not? Not that i would, just being realistic.

mxpatriot51
02-28-2007, 4:35 PM
yeah, how the heck would anyone know if you owned it from before or not? Not that i would, just being realistic.

Exactly what I'm saying.

bwiese
02-28-2007, 4:37 PM
I don't think speculation on this is helpful.

Any in-California transfer/import of hicaps on or after 1/1/2000 is illegal.

R_P_Rizzo
02-28-2007, 6:02 PM
Looking like a very good question about"proof of ownership". if questioned, what documentation needs to be produced? My 30rd M-1 carbine mag has been sitting in the garage for 20yrs. I have no "proof of ownership" other than possession. Guess I will leave it there and continue w/10rd mags.

bwiese
02-28-2007, 6:26 PM
Looking like a very good question about"proof of ownership". if questioned, what documentation needs to be produced? My 30rd M-1 carbine mag has been sitting in the garage for 20yrs. I have no "proof of ownership" other than possession. Guess I will leave it there and continue w/10rd mags.

DON'T DO THAT. You are innocent, don't self-restrict your rights outta fear.

You do not need to prove you are in legal possession of hicap mags.

THEY have to PROVE that you came by them illegally (i.e, acquired after 12/31/1999)

Use your hicaps in full confidence.

Hicap violations are difficult enough to prove anyway unless they got the offender in the act of acquiring and/or the mag was for a special type of gun not mfgd before 2000. Since new parts can be put on old magazines for repair, much of that law is esp moot.

Parag
02-28-2007, 6:46 PM
Any in-California transfer/import of hicaps on or after 1/1/2000 is illegal.

And manufacture as well, yes? Or else we'd have a flood of parts and do-it-yourself kits pouring into this State.

-- Parag

SemiAutoSam
02-28-2007, 6:50 PM
Iggy Chinn Has a crystal ball and he can read the minds of everyone within the confines of California State.

Don't try it Iggy knows.

Somewhat along the same lines as Santa Knowing that you were bad and not bringing you XMAS presents.



I'd bet thousands of people have bought high capacity magazines from other people for use in their grip less OLL's. Is there really any way to tell that you didn't originally buy that pre-ban magazine? (not advocating doing anything illegal here, just curious).

mxpatriot51
02-28-2007, 8:04 PM
I don't have any hi-caps, but when I shoot at the rifle matches there's a few guys who loan me hi-caps to use at the match. I load it up, shoot it off, and hand it right back to them.

Practice wise, I could care less about the capacity. SHTF it would be nice to have, but not a necessity. Competition it's needed to stay competitive, but there are nice guys out there that loan us young guys magazines. Drives me nuts that I wasn't old enough before the bans to buy real AR's with real magazines.

Pulsar
02-28-2007, 8:19 PM
DON'T DO THAT. You are innocent, don't self-restrict your rights outta fear.

You do not need to prove you are in legal possession of hicap mags.

THEY have to PROVE that you came by them illegally (i.e, acquired after 12/31/1999)

Use your hicaps in full confidence.

Hicap violations are difficult enough to prove anyway unless they got the offender in the act of acquiring and/or the mag was for a special type of gun not mfgd before 2000. Since new parts can be put on old magazines for repair, much of that law is esp moot.



Even then, they can really only hammer you if you imported them or manufactured them. If you bought them from someone in California, you haven't committed a crime, however the seller has committed a crime, and an overzealous DA might try and get you with something like guilty by association (sorry, my legal mumbo jumbo dictionary is on hiatus due to lack of sleep).

It really is a strangely written law.

hoffmang
02-28-2007, 8:44 PM
Also, a DA would have to prove that you didn't repair legally owned large-capacity magazines if your magazines have post 2000 markings.

http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/DOJ-large-cap-magazines-2005-11-10.pdf

-Gene

ts
02-28-2007, 8:47 PM
The law on high capacity magazines is so utterly ridiculous.

(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine.

So legally you can possess it. Simple as that. I would not suggest buying/receiving one in CA because you would be an accessory to the crime.

You can legally "find" as many as you want. Hell, you can "find" and be in possession of a box of AK drum mag's that every single part of them says "MADE 2005" and still be legal.

You're innocent until proven guilty. They have to prove they were made after January 1, 2000. They have to prove that you manufactured, imported, bought (meaning your an accessory to the crime), or received (accessory as well). If they cannot prove that, then you're pretty much off the hook. It's called pleading the 5th. (Note: I am just stating how stupid this law is, please don't do anything illegal.)

Imagine if the law said this about crack cocaine. That means you can have a lot of fresh made crack in your trunk and you can just say, "I found it, I just happen to own this nice collection of crack pipes too." It would be completely legal.

I don't understand why the gun laws in this state are so stupid. Can anyone tell me what a pistol grip has to do with a removable magazine? Don't give me any of this one handed stuff because one could easily hold a Mini-14 with one hand. It is just BS to keep the majority happy. Personally I am pretty pissed off at those a-holes who robbed that bank (the guys who got the idea from the film, Heat) with the body armor and the AK-47 and AR-15 full auto. It's all because of them IMO.

This forum is pretty funny at times because everyone acts holier then thou. We are all law abiding citizens I am sure. But I wonder what everyone really thinks and does some times... how many of you have a DoubleStar lower:rolleyes:?

I have a few pre-ban mags for a few different guns that were stored away (I don't even know what some of the mags go to). Some I haven't even seen in years, there in my garage.

Just remember to play the game. Stay legal. Have fun.

hoffmang
02-28-2007, 9:13 PM
I'm really not sure that a DA could successfully prosecute for being an accessory to a sale by buying. You're going to have a pretty strong case stating that the law does not make it a crime to posses or buy.

Importing is another matter however.

-Gene

ts
02-28-2007, 9:38 PM
I'm really not sure that a DA could successfully prosecute for being an accessory to a sale by buying. You're going to have a pretty strong case stating that the law does not make it a crime to posses or buy.

Importing is another matter however.

-Gene

Even if they would have a hard time, I would not want to take part in any illegal activity.

soopafly
03-01-2007, 8:59 AM
Okay, just curious here:

Would it be legal if you borrowed a high capacity magazine (pre-ban) from a friend/relative to use in a gripless lower?

I'm 99% sure it wouldn't be, unless they are present. Just want to see what everyone else thinks.
It would be illegal to borrow a >10 round magazine. It would be legal to use one the the presence of its owner.



You can legally "find" as many as you want.
We're still talking about stuff like this? C'mon guys, you either did or didn't have 'em before 01/01/2000. Leave it at that.

Franksremote
03-01-2007, 9:24 AM
Every hi-cap mag in CA was acquired before 2000 (period) If that makes me naive then so be it...

GenLee
03-24-2008, 10:30 AM
The law on high capacity magazines is so utterly ridiculous.



So legally you can possess it. Simple as that. I would not suggest buying/receiving one in CA because you would be an accessory to the crime.

You can legally "find" as many as you want. Hell, you can "find" and be in possession of a box of AK drum mag's that every single part of them says "MADE 2005" and still be legal.

You're innocent until proven guilty. They have to prove they were made after January 1, 2000. They have to prove that you manufactured, imported, bought (meaning your an accessory to the crime), or received (accessory as well). If they cannot prove that, then you're pretty much off the hook. It's called pleading the 5th. (Note: I am just stating how stupid this law is, please don't do anything illegal.)

Imagine if the law said this about crack cocaine. That means you can have a lot of fresh made crack in your trunk and you can just say, "I found it, I just happen to own this nice collection of crack pipes too." It would be completely legal.

I don't understand why the gun laws in this state are so stupid. Can anyone tell me what a pistol grip has to do with a removable magazine? Don't give me any of this one handed stuff because one could easily hold a Mini-14 with one hand. It is just BS to keep the majority happy. Personally I am pretty pissed off at those a-holes who robbed that bank (the guys who got the idea from the film, Heat) with the body armor and the AK-47 and AR-15 full auto. It's all because of them IMO.

This forum is pretty funny at times because everyone acts holier then thou. We are all law abiding citizens I am sure. But I wonder what everyone really thinks and does some times... how many of you have a DoubleStar lower:rolleyes:?

I have a few pre-ban mags for a few different guns that were stored away (I don't even know what some of the mags go to). Some I haven't even seen in years, there in my garage.

Just remember to play the game. Stay legal. Have fun.

Whats with Double Star lowers?

ohsmily
03-24-2008, 10:44 AM
Whats with Double Star lowers?

Wow, you bumped a thread over 1 year old to ask that question of someone who has since been banned?

Nanook
03-24-2008, 11:14 AM
Wow, you bumped a thread over 1 year old to ask that question of someone who has since been banned?http://www.applefritter.com/images/zombie_1-9316_640x480.jpg