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hyperion.excal
11-29-2011, 5:56 PM
I dont really know what to say but here goes my story...

My glass heart shattered toda. It was about 3 months ago when i found out about the Black Rifle Disease (BRD) and right at that moment i knew i had it in me. I've done my research on what is good and what is to avoid, i really have a passion towards owning/collecting and shooting guns and all the things that comes in between. Im a quality over quantity kind of person, i would rather own a few but great quality guns. with that said i dont think this one pass the test...


This is a Noveske upper, are they suppose to come like this brand new? People and my research tell me Noveske is the superior quality in the name of AR and no one comes close. I worked hard and paid serious $$$$ for this. i didnt care how much it cost i just wanted to have a really good quality firearm am i asking for too much?

The barrel had blemishes and imperfection, believe me i tried hard to get that off i thought it would go away with oil i rubbed and rubbed but never went away. I believe its a cosmetic defect / discoloration. The bullet extraction door was badly scratched up too and had nicks showing the blue finish came off.



http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt287/Hyperion_Excal/IMG_1391.jpg
http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt287/Hyperion_Excal/IMG_1394.jpg
http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt287/Hyperion_Excal/IMG_1397.jpg

hyperion.excal
11-29-2011, 5:58 PM
http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt287/Hyperion_Excal/IMG_1399.jpg

I asked a couple of friends to come over with their ARs they brought LMT and BCM for me to see and i was surprise at the quality of theirs. they paid way less for their brand. LMT also came with the nicest charging handle ive ever seen.

technique
11-29-2011, 5:59 PM
Chuckle

HK Dave
11-29-2011, 5:59 PM
The door is supposed to look like that. :P

Have you tried calling Noveske and asking them to make it right?

On a side note: It's a gun, if it was meant to be pretty, it would wear a dress and lipstick. ;)

HK Dave
11-29-2011, 6:01 PM
Of course you could put a dress and lipstick on a pig. :P

hyperion.excal
11-29-2011, 6:02 PM
The door is supposed to look like that. :P

Have you tried calling Noveske and asking them to make it right?

I called several times today. No answered i left voice mail no response.

As for the door, is that it really normal to have nicks? looked like something hard poked it, the blueing came off. i think this will get bigger in the future.

chead
11-29-2011, 6:02 PM
I.. uh. Well..

The dust cover is a very cheap part, I doubt Noveske machines their own from Moon gold or something. As for the barrel, if it were me I would just shoot it hard and see if it bakes off. If not, whatever. I appreciate maybe you are collecting the gun and maybe they will exchange it for you, but just be aware when you hear people discuss the quality of a rifle these are not the things they're talking about.

Also: You trollin', bro?

hyperion.excal
11-29-2011, 6:04 PM
Of course you could put a dress and lipstick on a pig. :P

I hope you are joking :(

HK Dave
11-29-2011, 6:08 PM
I hope you are joking :(

R O F L

Nope... when I was young... I do clearly remember the pig wearing a dress and lipstick in the bar... about 2 hours into the whiskey and beer, the pig disappeared... in its stead stood a beautiful bombshell wearing a dress and lipstick. ;)

hyperion.excal
11-29-2011, 6:15 PM
I.. uh. Well..

The dust cover is a very cheap part, I doubt Noveske machines their own from Moon gold or something. As for the barrel, if it were me I would just shoot it hard and see if it bakes off. If not, whatever. I appreciate maybe you are collecting the gun and maybe they will exchange it for you, but just be aware when you hear people discuss the quality of a rifle these are not the things they're talking about.

Also: You trollin', bro?
me? No. Im just sharing my own experience im not trolling bro.

I did try removing the stuff but it wont come off its barrel cosmetic defect. I am well aware of a good quality firearm i like quality not quantity. I just dont know what to do from here

goodlookin1
11-29-2011, 6:21 PM
OH MY GOSH NOVESKE IS TERRIBLE!!! HOW COULD THIS POSSIBLY HAPPEN TO MY OVERPRICED UPPER?!?! I PAID FOR PERFECTION!!!

Honestly, this should show a couple things:

1) Noveske is just as susceptible to screw ups as any other company. Yes, that means you too, you die hard HK416 fans!

2) More money doesnt always mean assured quality

Dont get me wrong, Noveske makes a dang fine rifle....but I am not disillusioned into believing that they are perfect or somehow vastly superior to many other similar products.

OP, the barrel is the only reason to possibly return it. Nothing else wrong with this upper. Sorry you have now been un-disillusioned now....

HK Dave
11-29-2011, 6:27 PM
Ok here's the honest reply.

The Dust cover, they will not replace it. It's suppose to look like that.

The barrel discoloration... just keep trying to get ahold of them, maybe they will change it out for you.

If I bought this rifle to collect and keep in a safe, I'd not want such blemishes... however if I plan to shoot it, I would not care.

Kerplow
11-29-2011, 6:32 PM
for what they charge (too much) they really ought to do what it takes to make you happy. If that means changing barrel and installing the prettiest dust cover they can find I don't see why that would be a problem considering the ridiculous price of their products. There really isn't too much craftsmanship that goes into an AR, if they have people willing to pay their prices they really ought to treat them right.

XDshooter
11-29-2011, 6:40 PM
The thing about the dust cover door.

EVERY SINGLE ONE I've ever ordered, looked exactly the same no matter who's name was on the package.

cmace22
11-29-2011, 6:40 PM
Not an issue for me. If the barrel bothers you keep trying to get a hold of Noveske.

Cyc Wid It
11-29-2011, 6:43 PM
Is there a popcorn icon bigger than this one? :popcorn:

hyperion.excal
11-29-2011, 6:46 PM
for what they charge (too much) they really ought to do what it takes to make you happy. If that means changing barrel and installing the prettiest dust cover they can find I don't see why that would be a problem considering the ridiculous price of their products. There really isn't too much craftsmanship that goes into an AR, if they have people willing to pay their prices they really ought to treat them right.

Thank you for understanding.

Forget about the door. I just want a nice barrel.

a1c
11-29-2011, 6:49 PM
To me, my ARs are shooting tools. I fondle my 1911 Kimber like it's a fragile and pretty girl, but my ARs are tough rednecks that can take a beating. They're battle rifles (not that they'll ever see one, unless the zombies show up).

What you are documenting here is really pretty minor. It's not like there is a major scratch or dent on that upper.

I do have some high quality parts on my rifles. But I don't expect cosmetic perfection, even from LaRue or Noveske. I just want something sturdy and reliable, built like a tank, that will shoot 100s of rounds or more (depending on the part) in all sorts of conditions. Your barrel will get banged up. Your handguard will get nicked. Your buttstock will get dented. Discoloration, scratches, wear - it's gonna happen in a matter of months provided you shoot that thing on a regular basis. And considering how much you paid, you'd better be putting hundreds of rounds through that barrel a year (if not thousands), otherwise, you might as well sell it.

ARs are not collectors' pieces unless they have some history. Shoot it. That girl is meant to see some action, get some scars, and that will just give her more character.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents. I don't see a reason to call Noveske here. Unless your barrel shoots like crap.

HK Dave
11-29-2011, 6:49 PM
for what they charge (too much) they really ought to do what it takes to make you happy. If that means changing barrel and installing the prettiest dust cover they can find I don't see why that would be a problem considering the ridiculous price of their products. There really isn't too much craftsmanship that goes into an AR, if they have people willing to pay their prices they really ought to treat them right.

Agreed. If this was for a $500 uppers i'd say nothing, but for Noveske at the prices they charge well....

freonr22
11-29-2011, 6:50 PM
politely, and i do understand your points, it should be perfect.

Reality.

Take your rifle, throw it in the dirt. in the mud. pee on it. rub and rub all that grime into it. it is seasoned then. THAT is the quality the ppl are referring to in quality rifles, imho.

I do appreciate the fact you purchased that fine rifle to be sure.

its kinda like this.

TRRahHX9Zkg


And i am not being sarcastic. It is a weapon.

just my .02

ZX-10R
11-29-2011, 6:51 PM
for what they charge (too much) they really ought to do what it takes to make you happy. If that means changing barrel and installing the prettiest dust cover they can find I don't see why that would be a problem considering the ridiculous price of their products. There really isn't too much craftsmanship that goes into an AR, if they have people willing to pay their prices they really ought to treat them right.

This is your answer.

The Draco and Polish UF I got looks way better than that and for the price of the Noveske you could have bought both of those. :D

Speedpower
11-29-2011, 7:01 PM
To OP, you deserve a perfect rifle for the top $ you paid, I'm the same way, I rather receive it perfect and scratch it myself rather than paying top $ and receive it with blems, I suggest you call Noveske and demand a replacement

tanakasan
11-29-2011, 7:02 PM
I'm with ya, hyperion...

My Spikes looks nicer than that and I am sure you paid at least double for yours. I would want a first quality rifle (fit, finish and performance) for the top quality dollars you paid.

You can always scrape, ding, dirty the rifle yourself...if thats what you want to do. My two Lincolns.

Robert

cbaer5
11-29-2011, 7:18 PM
ok i'll add my .02 but first did you try to clean the barrel it looks like its some kind of liquid residue?

as for what i think i have one and its perfect well it was (i dont need/want a safe queen) now mine was a higher end model but that may or may not have something to do with it.
your asking about QC on one of their lower end models I dont expect them to be 100% i expect them to to be what they are a work horse.

and lastly you have posted pics of internal moving parts ( the charging handle ) that are subject to wear do you really expect it not to be a little marked? also along the same line you also posted a pic of where the troy ( an expensive part to add to the over all expense of the "expensive" upper ) rests/sits/rubs on the receiver. I would be willing to bet that all uppers that have a troy mounted have that same mark.

so call them if you want I would go shoot it
or change what pretty things i would invest my money in maybe gold it doesn't rust or tarnish and its shiny

hyperion.excal
11-29-2011, 7:20 PM
I'm with ya, hyperion...

My Spikes looks nicer than that and I am sure you paid at least double for yours. I would want a first quality rifle (fit, finish and performance) for the top quality dollars you paid.

You can always scrape, ding, dirty the rifle yourself...if thats what you want to do. My two Lincolns.

Robert

That too is what i want. I only ask for a quality AR15 for the price i paid. This will be my first ever AR ever. When im old i want to remember this gun, my first gun build and knowing that i put it together myself i will carry the memory like its a piece of me. Thank you for understanding Robert.

To OP, you deserve a perfect rifle for the top $ you paid, I'm the same way, I rather receive it perfect and scratch it myself rather than paying top $ and receive it with blems, I suggest you call Noveske and demand a replacement

Thank you sir i will do.

coyotebait
11-29-2011, 7:37 PM
Is there a popcorn icon bigger than this one? :popcorn:
Tried to find one, but guess not

nitroxdiver
11-29-2011, 7:45 PM
As an appreciator of finely crafted objects, I get your concerns. That dust cover, yes, they all look like that. The barrel. Well, it's a parkerized finish. If it were a nice colt or S&W deep blue, high gloss finish, I'd say you would have a very valid complaint. On a parked finish Ar, I'd say it is acceptable. You'll notice finish imperfections on Acog and Elcan optics too. 50 dollar chicom optics have a nicer looking finish out of the box than a 2000$ Elcan. That's not where the "quality" lies in either of these objects. The quality is in performance. The reliability. My knights SR 15 upper, which was certainly not cheap, has a few handling and testing marks out of the box. No biggy. It'll get a bunch more getting used. Not abused thrown in the gravel, just shooting, cleaning, the occasional bump into something. I'd just shoot it, enjoy it, and appreciate the fact you own a very reliable and accurate Ar.
Good luck and have fun. Oh, and watch out for that BRD, 1 will soon be 2, then 4. ; )

helpme
11-29-2011, 7:49 PM
Hahaha this is calguns at its' finest, this kid wanted some advice but instead the E-thugs came out and slapped him around.

Is there a popcorn icon bigger than this one? :popcorn: YES :lurk5:

coyotebait
11-29-2011, 7:49 PM
I dont really know what to say but here goes my story...

My glass heart shattered toda. It was about 3 months ago when i found out about the Black Rifle Disease (BRD) and right at that moment i knew i had it in me. I've done my research on what is good and what is to avoid, i really have a passion towards owning/collecting and shooting guns and all the things that comes in between. Im a quality over quantity kind of person, i would rather own a few but great quality guns. with that said i dont think this one pass the test...


This is a Noveske upper, are they suppose to come like this brand new? People and my research tell me Noveske is the superior quality in the name of AR and no one comes close. I worked hard and paid serious $$$$ for this. i didnt care how much it cost i just wanted to have a really good quality firearm am i asking for too much?

The barrel had blemishes and imperfection, believe me i tried hard to get that off i thought it would go away with oil i rubbed and rubbed but never went away. I believe its a cosmetic defect / discoloration. The bullet extraction door was badly scratched up too and had nicks showing the blue finish came off.



http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt287/Hyperion_Excal/IMG_1391.jpg
http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt287/Hyperion_Excal/IMG_1394.jpg
http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt287/Hyperion_Excal/IMG_1397.jpg

You may as well junk that thing, there's no way in hell it's gonna hit the broad side of a barn now!:rolleyes:

LovingTheYear1911
11-29-2011, 7:49 PM
Funny how people react because if this was a cheaper upper (DPMS, etc.) people would say thats typical quality and how you get what you pay for. Oh but when its a Noveske its not a big deal and just a tool.

Ignorance....

L4D
11-29-2011, 7:57 PM
If i paid that much for a rifle it better come to me in perfect unblemished condition. If anyone is going to dent it, drop it, scratch it, piss on it until it changes colors it's going to be me.

Would you guys buy a brand new car with scratches from the factory? Because lets face it scratches and dents happen to automobiles anyways right?

FatalKitty
11-29-2011, 8:02 PM
it's a rifle.

if I paid that much for a xmas tree ornament I would be worried.

p2rider426
11-29-2011, 8:09 PM
Funny how people react because if this was a cheaper upper (DPMS, etc.) people would say thats typical quality and how you get what you pay for. Oh but when its a Noveske its not a big deal and just a tool.

Ignorance....

+1, that seems to be the mindset

louscamaro91
11-29-2011, 8:15 PM
Funny how people react because if this was a cheaper upper (DPMS, etc.) people would say thats typical quality and how you get what you pay for. Oh but when its a Noveske its not a big deal and just a tool.

Ignorance....


Your right.
I sound rough, tough, cool and have all the experience by saying it's a "tool".

UserM4
11-29-2011, 8:18 PM
I'm not gonna lie, if it was a DD, LMT, BCM, etc I wouldn't care. They're top notch tools meant to be used and abused. But a Noveske, I'd pamper it. (Don't own a Noveske, only DD and some other stuff). IMHO, Noveske is the BBQ gun of AR's.

zfields
11-29-2011, 8:28 PM
Man, your really going to hate it once you start shooting it. Cant wait for the "Why is my shell deflector discoloring?" thread.

Colt-45
11-29-2011, 8:30 PM
Did you purchase that directly from Noveske? You purchased this directly from a retailer or from an individual?

Could be that someone shot it, returned it and it was sold on to you as "NIB" when it really wasn't.

The dust cover on all of my AR's came like yours, all scratched up. If it were only that I'd just replace it with one of those fancy one's that have messages on them.

I understand the whole "my gun is a tool" mentality but when you pay $2K+ for a Noveske, you expect to use it and abuse it yourself and for it to not come like that from factory.

I've dealt with Noveske customer service many times. They're great, in my opinion they were either extremely busy today or maybe they weren't even in the office? Give them another call tomorrow.

gunsarefun
11-29-2011, 8:47 PM
So return that way overpriced upper and go buy a Spikes, CMMG, BCM, etc. Half the cost and the finish will be at least that good that you got.

If you really want something cool and pretty to look at, look into a Yankee Hill Machine upper with their diamond fluted barrels. Same high quality like Noveske, but without the whore house prices.

gwl
11-29-2011, 8:52 PM
Man, your really going to hate it once you start shooting it. Cant wait for the "Why is my shell deflector discoloring?" thread.

Y'know, I said the same exact think after I ran my Novekse in a two gun course. "Why is my shell deflector discoloring?" :D

Seriously, the OP should really try to contact John Noveske and let them know about the blemishes to at lease make ammends with you (fixing it/replacing it) and improve on their own quality control.

Good luck.

Casual_Shooter
11-29-2011, 8:56 PM
If i paid that much for a rifle it better come to me in perfect unblemished condition. If anyone is going to dent it, drop it, scratch it, piss on it until it changes colors it's going to be me.

Would you guys buy a brand new car with scratches from the factory? Because lets face it scratches and dents happen to automobiles anyways right?

My thoughts exactly.

Hoop
11-29-2011, 9:50 PM
I've done my research...The bullet extraction door

Ejection port cover. That's what they look like.

I don't really see anything wrong to be honest. If it bothers you then I guess you could return it, get something else and put some $$$ in your pocket.

AR's aren't meant to be collected so much as accumulated and not polished so much as used. If a weapon's finish bothers you AR's will prove to be a disappointment...

17+1
11-29-2011, 9:55 PM
Put on your big girl panties, shoot the d@mn thing and stop whining about it on Calguns.

;)

rogtac
11-29-2011, 10:50 PM
http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt287/Hyperion_Excal/IMG_1399.jpg

I asked a couple of friends to come over with their ARs they brought LMT and BCM for me to see and i was surprise at the quality of theirs. they paid way less for their brand. LMT also came with the nicest charging handle ive ever seen.

This is important to you and since you paid hard earned money for a quality product, you should have every right to speak to Noveske and see what they can do for you. As far as cosmetics go for other manufacturers, I feel LMT has some of the worst cosmetic finishes and LWRC has some of the best...especially the cerakoted ones, but they will also cost you more than a noveske...yes, there are more expensive ARs than Noveske.

Sent from my PG06100 using Tapatalk

FourLoko
11-29-2011, 11:05 PM
awesome, ARF.com just a huge thread like this about a Noveske lower

spoolinq
11-29-2011, 11:22 PM
^ that noveske lower is simply unacceptable.

Infidel 1776
11-29-2011, 11:38 PM
Sorry for the off topic question but since this discussion is going on............. How much dose your average noveske upper run for? Compared to BCM? I'm looking into a new build thinkin noveske or BCM. Anyone wanna shed some light on this??

only10x
11-29-2011, 11:45 PM
if you're not happy call and talk to Sherri or Joel, they'll make it right.

putemup
11-30-2011, 12:03 AM
.....and what are we looking at in the 3rd picture? Hmmmm

missiontrails
11-30-2011, 12:03 AM
I bought a complete Recce Basic rifle about 2 years ago. Probably the worst finish job on the barrel of ANY rifle I have owned. That same one also had a well canted front sight. I sent mine back, Joel gave me crap. Eventually Sherry ended up upgrading be to a Recce low Pro upper for an extra $200. That one was good. But for everyone in here who is laughing about that piss poor barrel finish, ANY "Noveske" priced upper/rifle had better look like it just left Nordstrom as it arrives....... then let the owner toss it around and "use" it in the carbine class. If Freakin Del-Ton, RRA, CMMG, Stag, BCM etc can get the barrel coating right, why in the hell can't Noveske? The dust cover is NORMAL.

Dhena81
11-30-2011, 12:50 AM
Its just the finish there must have been some machining oil or something on the steel before they dipped it. When you buy a Noveske what your really paying for is consistency and the best CL barrel available I would definitely give them a call. Don't worry about the people that claim its overpriced it's not cheap but you typically get what you pay for their double CL barrels are more consistent than some SS barrels with 3 times the life.

Dhena81
11-30-2011, 12:52 AM
7Dzxef1muoQ

U5512
11-30-2011, 1:13 AM
I bought a complete Recce Basic rifle about 2 years ago. Probably the worst finish job on the barrel of ANY rifle I have owned. That same one also had a well canted front sight. I sent mine back, Joel gave me crap. Eventually Sherry ended up upgrading be to a Recce low Pro upper for an extra $200. That one was good. But for everyone in here who is laughing about that piss poor barrel finish, ANY "Noveske" priced upper/rifle had better look like it just left Nordstrom as it arrives....... then let the owner toss it around and "use" is in the carbine class. If Freakin Del-Ton, RRA, CMMG, Stag, BCM etc can get the barrel coating right, why in the hell can't Noveske? The dust cover is NORMAL.

Ding...ding....ding.....finally we've got a winner here!!!

BigNick
11-30-2011, 1:27 AM
I agree if you pay good money for a noveske rifle it shouldn't look like that. I would call and talk with them they will make it right just give them a chance before blasting them. I own two noveskes and I want mine perfect when I get them and if they get messed up at least I did it.

bug_eyedmonster
11-30-2011, 2:33 AM
If I were you, OP, I would take everything you are getting here (including my post) with a grain of salt. I was once in your shoes... worried about asthetic issues as you are. My first Springfield TRP came with discoloration from the factory. I sent it back to Springfield, and they refinished the gun and did some minor work on it. That very same gun was used the other day to drive in stakes into hard packed dirt (it was unloaded). It's got more scratches and stuff all over it, the finish looks like a kid colored it with a crayon. My point is, after a while, as you can read in other's responses, things like this stop mattering. If it tickles your fancy to have Noveske rep ace or refinish your barrel, then by all means, proceed. But make sure you proceed with the proper attitude, as all of these companies deserve. I'd also first contact the dealer you bought it from, if it wasn't purchased directly from Noveske. I agree with many, saying you should totally get what you paid for, but I also agree with the guys saying to just shoot it. If you plan to actually shoot your first build, as nice as it may be, poop happens, and it will always get messed up. As long as it performs, later down the road, you are going to look back and say to yourself "wow, I really went through that much trouble to get a replacement?" Anyway, best of luck either way you go!

Jerry

Hoop
11-30-2011, 7:49 AM
Sorry for the off topic question but since this discussion is going on............. How much dose your average noveske upper run for? Compared to BCM? I'm looking into a new build thinkin noveske or BCM. Anyone wanna shed some light on this??

If you want a carbine upper get one of the Riflegear branded ones or maybe an LMT "basic" (check rainier). Both of those will be 600 complete. Noveske carbine upper is 700+ retail.

DesertSniper
11-30-2011, 8:00 AM
I have a noveske upper, it has no blemishes or other issues. i'd return it and get one that is not defected.

45DAVID1
11-30-2011, 8:07 AM
I have a 21" Noveske N6. My dustcover wouldnt close. i sent the upper back, they fixed it, and sent it back. No problems with it. Every brand out there will have some issues. Get it fixed and go shoot it.

nickyrr
11-30-2011, 8:24 AM
Ok here's the honest reply.

The Dust cover, they will not replace it. It's suppose to look like that.

The barrel discoloration... just keep trying to get ahold of them, maybe they will change it out for you.

If I bought this rifle to collect and keep in a safe, I'd not want such blemishes... however if I plan to shoot it, I would not care.

The op never argued about making the gun look pretty... He is only saying he paid for quality worksmanship and the thing looks like **** before he even used it. You ever bought a brand new BMW but somehow there's 4000 miles in the car and its all scratched up? What do you tell your self? Oh well I'm gonna use the car anyway so ill shut up? No you won't, you'll complain and ***** about it since you paid top money... And there's a difference when you buy new **** and you used and scratched it versus you buy a a
Supposed new one all blemished

pacifico23
11-30-2011, 8:35 AM
Dude I would return it asap. ANYTHING I spend over 1k that I buy brand new, better look brand new out of the box. This is unacceptable. These haters have been watching to many torture tests videos. Return to Noveske.

ScottsBad
11-30-2011, 9:33 AM
Hi, I own a Noveske and BCM in my arsenal. Noveske makes a quality upper, as does BCM. My only concern would be the loss of corrosion resistance in that area of the barrel where the finish is inconsistent.

SERIOUSLY: From the photos, it looks like the finish may allow rust to attack the steel prematurely. For this reason I would contact Noveske and ask for a repair or replacement. I have talked to the folks at Noveske and they were real Pros. They will make it right or let us all know on the forum.

The other marks are nothing. They are irksome, but really not out of line. If you bought directly from Noveske they will probably fix those blemishes as well. I bought through Rainier...they are just ok in that regard.

As for quality, BCM is probably on top right now. On another forum there is a specifications comparison that was done by obtaining direct responses from all the manufacturers about their manufacturing and QC.

BCM is not cheap, when you buy a Noveske upper, for instance, you will get the BCG and a charging handle and sometimes sights. When you buy a BCM you must purchase the BCG, the charging handle, and sights.

You could pay more for an AR rifle or upper than Noveske, but the law of diminishing returns make that ridiculous. You would be better off buying a FN SCAR 16S at that point. I own one of these and it is my favorite rifle chambered in 5.56.

Also, someone mentioned the RifleGear branded uppers; I believe they use Daniel Defense barrels (You should ask them) which are very good. Their prices are reasonable and they are in Comiefornia, so it is nice to support them. They have been really fair to me.

hyperion.excal
11-30-2011, 11:57 AM
Hey guys great news noveske will be replacing the upper.

Just waiting on the shipping label.

Im very very happy right now.

Dude I would return it asap. ANYTHING I spend over 1k that I buy brand new, better look brand new out of the box. This is unacceptable. These haters have been watching to many torture tests videos. Return to Noveske.

The op never argued about making the gun look pretty... He is only saying he paid for quality worksmanship and the thing looks like **** before he even used it. You ever bought a brand new BMW but somehow there's 4000 miles in the car and its all scratched up? What do you tell your self? Oh well I'm gonna use the car anyway so ill shut up? No you won't, you'll complain and ***** about it since you paid top money... And there's a difference when you buy new **** and you used and scratched it versus you buy a a
Supposed new one all blemished
+1 This is exactly how i feel.


Hi, I own a Noveske and BCM in my arsenal. Noveske makes a quality upper, as does BCM. My only concern would be the loss of corrosion resistance in that area of the barrel where the finish is inconsistent.

SERIOUSLY: From the photos, it looks like the finish may allow rust to attack the steel prematurely. For this reason I would contact Noveske and ask for a repair or replacement. I have talked to the folks at Noveske and they were real Pros. They will make it right or let us all know on the forum.

The other marks are nothing. They are irksome, but really not out of line. If you bought directly from Noveske they will probably fix those blemishes as well. I bought through Rainier...they are just ok in that regard.

As for quality, BCM is probably on top right now. On another forum there is a specifications comparison that was done by obtaining direct responses from all the manufacturers about their manufacturing and QC.

BCM is not cheap, when you buy a Noveske upper, for instance, you will get the BCG and a charging handle and sometimes sights. When you buy a BCM you must purchase the BCG, the charging handle, and sights.

You could pay more for an AR rifle or upper than Noveske, but the law of diminishing returns make that ridiculous. You would be better off buying a FN SCAR 16S at that point. I own one of these and it is my favorite rifle chambered in 5.56.

Also, someone mentioned the RifleGear branded uppers; I believe they use Daniel Defense barrels (You should ask them) which are very good. Their prices are reasonable and they are in Comiefornia, so it is nice to support them. They have been really fair to me.

That was what i was worried about too. the barrel rusting prematurely. im just so happy right now that they will send me a new one. Hopefully i will get a gunfighter charging handle too those are very sweet.

Anyways thanks to ALL who was kind to give useful information. The trolling was very childish.

Colt-45
12-01-2011, 2:55 AM
I knew they would come through. Did you send them your pics? or did they agree to take it back without them?

C4iGrant
12-01-2011, 6:26 AM
Is this a joke? AR's are NOT beauty queens! They are tools (like a hammer). If you want pretty, buy a bolt gun or an English made over and under.


With the above out of the way, the streaks on the barrel is simply residue. Use fine steel wool and some solvent and those marks will disappear.

As for the dust cover, yes they are not pretty and were never meant to be. They are a part that slams open and its SOLE purpose in life is to keep dust out of the receiver (not look pretty).



C4

rrr70
12-01-2011, 6:54 AM
I have two Noveskes. Light Carbine and Light Recce. Honestly I didn't even look at finish. That's not a priority for me in my ARs. I want them to soot good, not to look good. And they do shoot good. I gave Recce to my brother for his birthday and painted Carbine.
It's a battle rifle, not a custom 1911.

YMMV

DesertSniper
12-01-2011, 7:43 AM
I have two Noveskes. Light Carbine and Light Recce. Honestly I didn't even look at finish. That's not a priority for me in my ARs. I want them to soot good, not to look good. And they do shoot good. I gave Recce to my brother for his birthday and painted Carbine.
It's a battle rifle, not a custom 1911.

YMMV

Correction, it's what ever he wants it to be. He bought it with his money for his own purpose. If he wants to dress it up and make it more appealing to the eye thats up to him. would you all buy a new truck that has a major scratch or dent and say " its not a porche, its just a tool, that dent will play no part in it functioning correctly" I think not.

missiontrails
12-01-2011, 7:51 AM
I have a 21" Noveske N6. My dustcover wouldnt close. i sent the upper back, they fixed it, and sent it back. No problems with it. Every brand out there will have some issues. Get it fixed and go shoot it.

OmG, I forgot to mention in my above post regarding my Recce Basic rifle... besides the bad barrel finish (purple splotches) and the canted front sight..... the damn dust cover would NOT close either.....

tanakasan
12-01-2011, 7:55 AM
Correction, it's what ever he wants it to be. He bought it with his money for his own purpose. If he wants to dress it up and make it more appealing to the eye thats up to him. would you all buy a new truck that has a major scratch or dent and say " its not a porche, its just a tool, that dent will play no part in it functioning correctly" I think not.

^^Haha! True!

OP, pics when you get the replacement...hope its a winner for you!

Robert

Beelzy
12-01-2011, 8:05 AM
Wow!.....I'm glad they took back that USED upper. :whistling:

cannon
12-01-2011, 8:57 AM
Is this a joke? AR's are NOT beauty queens! They are tools (like a hammer). If you want pretty, buy a bolt gun or an English made over and under.


With the above out of the way, the streaks on the barrel is simply residue. Use fine steel wool and some solvent and those marks will disappear.

As for the dust cover, yes they are not pretty and were never meant to be. They are a part that slams open and its SOLE purpose in life is to keep dust out of the receiver (not look pretty).



C4

To some like you and I. ARs are used and sometimes worked hard. To others they are functioning art work.

The OP paid top dollar for a product and like any high end product he rightly expects it to be in excellent condition when he receives it. How it is treated and what it is used for is totally up to the buyer.

C4iGrant
12-01-2011, 9:23 AM
To some like you and I. ARs are used and sometimes worked hard. To others they are functioning art work.

The OP paid top dollar for a product and like any high end product he rightly expects it to be in excellent condition when he receives it. How it is treated and what it is used for is totally up to the buyer.

I think many confuse the terms "QUALITY" and "Fit and Finish."

Manufacturers such as BCM, DD, Noveske, Colt, KAC, LMT, etc focus all their attention on the quality of the components used, how they are assembled, reliablility and accuracy. Fit and finish is DEAD LAST (for good reason as there are more important things).



C4

MUKAK
12-01-2011, 9:58 AM
I think many confuse the terms "QUALITY" and "Fit and Finish."

Manufacturers such as BCM, DD, Noveske, Colt, KAC, LMT, etc focus all their attention on the quality of the components used, how they are assembled, reliablility and accuracy. Fit and finish is DEAD LAST (for good reason as there are more important things).



C4

lol u reasoning is a little of... if some1 pays top dollar, he/she must expect top quality finish all over.... not just on the inside...

C4iGrant
12-01-2011, 10:06 AM
lol u reasoning is a little of... if some1 pays top dollar, he/she must expect top quality finish all over.... not just on the inside...

Sorry, AR's don't work that way. Companies that spend all their time and attention on F&F TYPICALLY build a subpar product. Examples would be RRA, BM, etc.

Most Colt and LMT's I see look like they fell out the back of the truck and hit a gravel road. They of course are much more reliable than most everything out there.



C4

HK Dave
12-01-2011, 10:07 AM
I think many confuse the terms "QUALITY" and "Fit and Finish."

Manufacturers such as BCM, DD, Noveske, Colt, KAC, LMT, etc focus all their attention on the quality of the components used, how they are assembled, reliablility and accuracy. Fit and finish is DEAD LAST (for good reason as there are more important things).



C4

I agree with you, and feel that it really is the last thing to worry about but what we need to understand is that, the majority of gun purchasers nowadays, don't buy them to use, they buy them to look at and show off. :smilielol5:

Brown Rock
12-01-2011, 10:12 AM
Tried to find one, but guess not

:lurk5:

cannon
12-01-2011, 10:14 AM
I think many confuse the terms "QUALITY" and "Fit and Finish."

Manufacturers such as BCM, DD, Noveske, Colt, KAC, LMT, etc focus all their attention on the quality of the components used, how they are assembled, reliablility and accuracy. Fit and finish is DEAD LAST (for good reason as there are more important things).



C4

That's why I have a Stag instead of a Colt. I can tell it's higher quality because the upper and lower line up better.:rofl2::rofl2:

^^*inside joke to C4*^^

You are correct, I guess I am used to wood and blued steel guns where fit and finish are also part of the quality.

MUKAK
12-01-2011, 10:14 AM
Sorry, AR's don't work that way. Companies that spend all their time and attention on F&F TYPICALLY build a subpar product. Examples would be RRA, BM, etc.

Most Colt and LMT's I see look like they fell out the back of the truck and hit a gravel road. They of course are much more reliable than most everything out there.



C4

so what u saiyng is... I might as well buy USED NOVESKE/COLT in the for sale forum and save money Or should I be spending top dollar for a new product that looks USED?

C4iGrant
12-01-2011, 10:15 AM
I agree with you, and feel that it really is the last thing to worry about but what we need to understand is that, the majority of gun purchasers nowadays, don't buy them to use, they buy them to look at and show off. :smilielol5:

I understand. I love to see safe queens at carbine schools and the instructor has them get down on the gravel (placing said queen on ground). They almost cry. :D

I also understand that people want what they pay for. Where the confusion happens is that they do not realize what they are paying for. When you buy a Noveske (for instance), you are paying for high quality barrels, BCG's, LPK, assembly and tuned gas ports. And yes, their guns CAN look very "pretty", but at the end of the day this is last on the list.

If the truth hurts some folks feelings, then so be it, but it is what it is.




C4

C4iGrant
12-01-2011, 10:17 AM
so what u saiyng is... I might as well buy USED NOVESKE/COLT in the for sale forum and save money Or should I be spending top dollar for a new product that looks USED?

Depends. How many rounds were fired? Was it abused? Modified by someone that doesn't know their *** from an hole in the ground?

These are risks when buying used.



C4

Brown Rock
12-01-2011, 10:19 AM
Man, your really going to hate it once you start shooting it. Cant wait for the "Why is my shell deflector discoloring?" thread.

lol I just fired my AR for the first time last week. Got the brass kisses on there now. I like it. :D

C4iGrant
12-01-2011, 10:19 AM
You are correct, I guess I am used to wood and blued steel guns where fit and finish are also part of the quality.

Yes, wood and blued gun manufacturers pay way more attention to F&F. Those are typically not guns designed for combat.



C4

vintagearms
12-01-2011, 10:19 AM
Is this a joke? AR's are NOT beauty queens! They are tools (like a hammer). If you want pretty, buy a bolt gun or an English made over and under.


With the above out of the way, the streaks on the barrel is simply residue. Use fine steel wool and some solvent and those marks will disappear.

As for the dust cover, yes they are not pretty and were never meant to be. They are a part that slams open and its SOLE purpose in life is to keep dust out of the receiver (not look pretty).



C4



LOL. I agree with you, but Calguns as a whole are not shooters in the professional sense. Your wasting your breath....

C4iGrant
12-01-2011, 10:25 AM
LOL. I agree with you, but Calguns as a whole are not shooters in the professional sense. Your wasting your breath....

LOL, ya I konw. I should follow my own advice and not try to fix stupid. :willy_nilly:





C4

coyotebait
12-01-2011, 10:32 AM
Obviously, a "pretty AR" means different things to different people. Some like them shiny and clean. I personally think they look better once they've got some "battle scars." (not to be confused with idiot marks or intentional battle scars) Just my opinion.

Nathan Krynn
12-01-2011, 11:05 AM
As for quality, BCM is probably on top right now. On another forum there is a specifications comparison that was done by obtaining direct responses from all the manufacturers about their manufacturing and QC.


Do you have a link for this. I'd love to see it.

Casual_Shooter
12-01-2011, 11:16 AM
LOL, ya I konw. I should follow my own advice and not try to fix stupid. :willy_nilly:

C4

So we're stupid for wanting an unblemished gun when buying new?

Considering Noveske is replacing the OP's upper, it doesn't sound like they feel the same way. Or, if they do, they aren't voicing it. Which, from a vendor's perspective is probably smart.

FeuerFrei
12-01-2011, 11:51 AM
OP is rightly annoyed about unmet expectations.
He's not buying prewashed jeans. Buying a "top tier" AR from a retailer known in many circles as a "go to" for quality.
Sounds like a ugly one got through QC. It happens.
Noveske's rep is that they are among the best. If they ship an ugly duck to a guy that has read all the "good" things about Noveske then he has every right to expect an as new rifle. Not a broken in looking one. He if wants to drop it in a ditch when he is out shooting it then it is his business.
Looks like noveske sees it that way too and they are gonna take care of it.

BAGunner
12-01-2011, 12:00 PM
The most expensive part in a Noveske upper is their barrel, which sells for $500+ with the matching bolt. If you put together with all the parts yourself, the cost of parts alone will match the upper cost. This means they are assembling your upper for free, which also means the most of their profit are from the barrels. This is fine for their stainless steel barrel, which has the buzz words like mod1 chamber / bead blast finish / polygon rifling / recon'afghan profile etc etc.

But they are asking the same premium money for CMV barrels. Doesn't FN barrel have the same thickened chrome liner? What's so special about Noveske's CMV barrels?

ZombieTactics
12-01-2011, 12:03 PM
I think many confuse the terms "QUALITY" and "Fit and Finish."

Manufacturers such as BCM, DD, Noveske, Colt, KAC, LMT, etc focus all their attention on the quality of the components used, how they are assembled, reliablility and accuracy. Fit and finish is DEAD LAST (for good reason as there are more important things). ...

It's an interesting notion, but it's another one of those cases where I have to wonder why the firearms industry is somehow different than every other industry in the world ... or so it seems. And honestly ... I am just wondering. And while I am responding specifically to your post, please don't assume this to be an attack on you personally, but rather a generally perplexed expression of incredulity. I honestly consider this an opportunity to be taught something.

It doesn't matter whether you are talking Deming TQM, Kaizen, Six Sigma, some ISO certification ... Fit-n-Finish are considered prime indicators of the entire quality-control process.

If I look at a product and see that parts which should mesh and lines which should meet don't ... that's a giant clue to a manufacturer's attention to detail. Please spare me the "but we worry about the important stuff" line ... it's been the excuse of every low-quality hack organization you can think of. US auto makers used to use this excuse in response to superior-quality Japanese products, for instance. VW used to be the world's #3 automaker until they started this "the paint job is not important, it's the engineering inside" nonsense. Amazingly, US auto quality seemed to increase measurably in every sense once they got off the "fit and finish denial" bandwagon. Volkswagen has yet to recover their market position.

If I see a product with noticeable flaws, it is almost always a sign of hidden (and probably more important) flaws elsewhere. If they cannot get the trivial, easily-fixed cosmetic details right, what does this say about their abilities with the tough stuff? W. Edwards Deming considered it almost the most important thing, and a general barometer of the corporate culture which manufactured a particular product: bad paint job=badly flawed product (and company) at every level ... and he proved this concept over-n-over.

Why should I not believe this is as true with firearms as it is with everything else? What's different?

And again ... no real axe to grind ... but I do wonder.

Hoop
12-01-2011, 12:17 PM
What's so special about Noveske's CMV barrels?

They say Noveske on them...Noveske stainless barrels are very good though. Not sure they're worth the 500$ bucks they ask for them...

HK Dave
12-01-2011, 12:22 PM
Does that $500 include a BCG? If not, it's wildly overpriced. :P

Hoop
12-01-2011, 12:38 PM
the barrel rusting prematurely..

It wouldn't have...please post up about your new upper when you get it as well.


Most Colt and LMT's I see look like they fell out the back of the truck and hit a gravel road. They of course are much more reliable than most everything out there.


Beauty is all in the eye of the beholder...plus you get the people who come from a bolt hunting background where the nice walnut stock and blued barrel make them think "quality" so when they pick up a butt-ugly mil spec finished AR they think "junk"...

The last thing I look at on an AR is the quality of the paintjob...

glocklover
12-01-2011, 12:43 PM
Do you have a link for this. I'd love to see it.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA&single=true&gid=5&output=html

BAGunner
12-01-2011, 12:53 PM
Does that $500 include a BCG? If not, it's wildly overpriced. :P

Not BCG, only a bolt, supposedly matched.

HK Dave
12-01-2011, 12:56 PM
Still overpriced. :)

BAGunner
12-01-2011, 12:59 PM
Still overpriced. :)

That's what I'm saying, they make most (if not all) of their profit on their barrels.

RuggedJay
12-01-2011, 1:03 PM
Its a rifle not a baseball card or a comic book. Quality is about how it shoots and performs not about hoe "mint condition" it looks. Anf usually ARs are not collectors items. F you actually shoot it it should have wear and handling marks. A pristine AR is paper weight that isnt being used.

DesertSniper
12-01-2011, 1:09 PM
It's an interesting notion, but it's another one of those cases where I have to wonder why the firearms industry is somehow different than every other industry in the world ... or so it seems. And honestly ... I am just wondering. And while I am responding specifically to your post, please don't assume this to be an attack on you personally, but rather a generally perplexed expression of incredulity. I honestly consider this an opportunity to be taught something.

It doesn't matter whether you are talking Deming TQM, Kaizen, Six Sigma, some ISO certification ... Fit-n-Finish are considered prime indicators of the entire quality-control process.

If I look at a product and see that parts which should mesh and lines which should meet don't ... that's a giant clue to a manufacturer's attention to detail. Please spare me the "but we worry about the important stuff" line ... it's been the excuse of every low-quality hack organization you can think of. US auto makers used to use this excuse in response to superior-quality Japanese products, for instance. VW used to be the world's #3 automaker until they started this "the paint job is not important, it's the engineering inside" nonsense. Amazingly, US auto quality seemed to increase measurably in every sense once they got off the "fit and finish denial" bandwagon. Volkswagen has yet to recover their market position.

If I see a product with noticeable flaws, it is almost always a sign of hidden (and probably more important) flaws elsewhere. If they cannot get the trivial, easily-fixed cosmetic details right, what does this say about their abilities with the tough stuff? W. Edwards Deming considered it almost the most important thing, and a general barometer of the corporate culture which manufactured a particular product: bad paint job=badly flawed product (and company) at every level ... and he proved this concept over-n-over.

Why should I not believe this is as true with firearms as it is with everything else? What's different?

And again ... no real axe to grind ... but I do wonder.

+ 1
you have a very good point here, better then I could put into words too!

21SF
12-01-2011, 1:43 PM
NOObeski is OVER PRICED Period....

missiontrails
12-01-2011, 2:03 PM
Dude, hammers, chesels, screwdrivers at Home Depot start out with perfecty uniform finishes, then you beat the hell out of them. My point is simply why should Noveske NOT uphold the same BRAND NEW product appearance standards as the entry level brands? If they are going to command $2100 for a 5.56 rifle, they should take a close look at their product BEFORE they ship them to vendors. The fact that subpar finished items are shipped simply screams "we don't give a f_ _ _".

C4iGrant
12-01-2011, 2:05 PM
So we're stupid for wanting an unblemished gun when buying new?

Considering Noveske is replacing the OP's upper, it doesn't sound like they feel the same way. Or, if they do, they aren't voicing it. Which, from a vendor's perspective is probably smart.

I did not call anyone stupid. My point is that I should stop trying to educate the masses when all they want to hear is their own opinion. ;)

Most ALL AR manufacturers will take something back in order to avoid a 10 page ***** fest (like this one). Doesn't mean they aren't laughing at you and fighting over who gets your weapon for their personal use.



C4

C4iGrant
12-01-2011, 2:06 PM
The most expensive part in a Noveske upper is their barrel, which sells for $500+ with the matching bolt. If you put together with all the parts yourself, the cost of parts alone will match the upper cost. This means they are assembling your upper for free, which also means the most of their profit are from the barrels. This is fine for their stainless steel barrel, which has the buzz words like mod1 chamber / bead blast finish / polygon rifling / recon'afghan profile etc etc.

But they are asking the same premium money for CMV barrels. Doesn't FN barrel have the same thickened chrome liner? What's so special about Noveske's CMV barrels?

Noveske N4 barrels = FN.


C4

C4iGrant
12-01-2011, 2:10 PM
It's an interesting notion, but it's another one of those cases where I have to wonder why the firearms industry is somehow different than every other industry in the world ... or so it seems. And honestly ... I am just wondering. And while I am responding specifically to your post, please don't assume this to be an attack on you personally, but rather a generally perplexed expression of incredulity. I honestly consider this an opportunity to be taught something.

It doesn't matter whether you are talking Deming TQM, Kaizen, Six Sigma, some ISO certification ... Fit-n-Finish are considered prime indicators of the entire quality-control process.

If I look at a product and see that parts which should mesh and lines which should meet don't ... that's a giant clue to a manufacturer's attention to detail. Please spare me the "but we worry about the important stuff" line ... it's been the excuse of every low-quality hack organization you can think of. US auto makers used to use this excuse in response to superior-quality Japanese products, for instance. VW used to be the world's #3 automaker until they started this "the paint job is not important, it's the engineering inside" nonsense. Amazingly, US auto quality seemed to increase measurably in every sense once they got off the "fit and finish denial" bandwagon. Volkswagen has yet to recover their market position.

If I see a product with noticeable flaws, it is almost always a sign of hidden (and probably more important) flaws elsewhere. If they cannot get the trivial, easily-fixed cosmetic details right, what does this say about their abilities with the tough stuff? W. Edwards Deming considered it almost the most important thing, and a general barometer of the corporate culture which manufactured a particular product: bad paint job=badly flawed product (and company) at every level ... and he proved this concept over-n-over.

Why should I not believe this is as true with firearms as it is with everything else? What's different?

And again ... no real axe to grind ... but I do wonder.



You have to seperate the firearms industry into two major groups. The hunting group and the Tactical group. The hunting group pays a lot of attention to F&F. The Tactical group pays MORE attention to reliability and less to F&F.

Personally, I don't want an AR manufacturer to focus what little QC time they have with the gun on F&F. I want them to make sure it runs.

In the end, the common gun owner (known as the eighty percenters) go for looks VS substance.



C4

Casual_Shooter
12-01-2011, 2:11 PM
LOL, ya I konw. I should follow my own advice and not try to fix stupid. :willy_nilly:

C4

I did not call anyone stupid. My point is that I should stop trying to educate the masses when all they want to hear is their own opinion. ;)

Most ALL AR manufacturers will take something back in order to avoid a 10 page ***** fest (like this one). Doesn't mean they aren't laughing at you and fighting over who gets your weapon for their personal use.

C4

Got it.

C4iGrant
12-01-2011, 2:12 PM
Its a rifle not a baseball card or a comic book. Quality is about how it shoots and performs not about hoe "mint condition" it looks. Anf usually ARs are not collectors items. F you actually shoot it it should have wear and handling marks. A pristine AR is paper weight that isnt being used.

You are a smart man.



C4

ZombieTactics
12-01-2011, 2:27 PM
You have to seperate the firearms industry into two major groups. The hunting group and the Tactical group. The hunting group pays a lot of attention to F&F. The Tactical group pays MORE attention to reliability and less to F&F.

Personally, I don't want an AR manufacturer to focus what little QC time they have with the gun on F&F. I want them to make sure it runs.

In the end, the common gun owner (known as the eighty percenters) go for looks VS substance. ...

I think you fail to understand the degree to which these kinds of statements would be considered unacceptable - anywhere outside the firearms industry - for anything more important than a child's toy.

F&F can be demonstrated to actually mean reliability and quality. After all, the first F stands for "fit", as in the notion that things should fit together properly. If that has nothing to do with quality or performance, I'd like to know why this is such a special case. Rather than simply restating the same thing in different ways ... i.e. "looks don't count, performance does", I'd ask you to reconsider that notion. Why does that idea hold sway when it comes to a firearm when it does nowhere else? I ask this especially in light of the fact that F&F can be proven over-n-over to be a indicator of overall product quality across a wide spectrum of industries.

I'm sorry to be a PITA asking obnoxious questions, but I'm trying to figure out why are firearms so different than other products that they are held to such a low standard of quality?

Tier One Arms
12-01-2011, 2:53 PM
As a Noveske distributor I would say trust me, give them a call and they will make it right. They have some of the best customer service in the industry.

hyperion.excal
12-01-2011, 4:48 PM
I knew they would come through. Did you send them your pics? or did they agree to take it back without them?

No pics. I spoke to Joel im not sure if he is a CS. On other forums i heard he is a gun smith. He was very nice and easy going said he fully understand me and where im coming from. He will hand pick the "perfect" NOVESKE for me.

Noveske did not disappoint they will make sure that i am happy for christmas. Im also getting "ALOT" of free gifts too :D Im expecting Gold.

HK Dave
12-01-2011, 5:11 PM
Another score for Noveske Customer Service. Glad it worked out for you.

hyperion.excal
12-01-2011, 5:26 PM
will post pic once the "brand new" upper arrive.

my noveske n4 lower is still in jail (that i inspected before DROSSING, its superb quality bar none) i have a feeling the upper will come before i pick up the lower.

will post heavy pics once i put together the project.

ZombieTactics
12-01-2011, 5:47 PM
No pics. I spoke to Joel im not sure if he is a CS. On other forums i heard he is a gun smith. He was very nice and easy going said he fully understand me and where im coming from. He will hand pick the "perfect" NOVESKE for me. ...
Dang, that brand just went up a notch in my book.

C4iGrant
12-01-2011, 5:48 PM
I think you fail to understand the degree to which these kinds of statements would be considered unacceptable - anywhere outside the firearms industry - for anything more important than a child's toy.

F&F can be demonstrated to actually mean reliability and quality. After all, the first F stands for "fit", as in the notion that things should fit together properly. If that has nothing to do with quality or performance, I'd like to know why this is such a special case. Rather than simply restating the same thing in different ways ... i.e. "looks don't count, performance does", I'd ask you to reconsider that notion. Why does that idea hold sway when it comes to a firearm when it does nowhere else? I ask this especially in light of the fact that F&F can be proven over-n-over to be a indicator of overall product quality across a wide spectrum of industries.

I'm sorry to be a PITA asking obnoxious questions, but I'm trying to figure out why are firearms so different than other products that they are held to such a low standard of quality?


Remember that I am just the messenger. ;)

I think that if we look for a "bad guy" or reason for why AR's tend to be lacking in F&F department, we can blame the Military. Most of the companies that make parts (actually machine and finish them) do so with the Military in mind. Meaning that they (Uncle Sam) is not concerned if there is a ding, scratch or blem on a barrel, receiver or stock. They are paying for the part to meet a certain size, strength, longevity and accuracy capability.

Because they don't care, it is easy for companies (that don't deal with the commercial market much) to not pay attention to F&F.

Now in regards to the Noveske in this thread, the majority of the "blems" are nothing more than a minor stain or imperfection that can be removed with some steel wool. So there is NOTHING WRONG with it, it just didn't get a wipe down before it went into the box.


C4

hyperion.excal
12-01-2011, 5:54 PM
Remember that I am just the messenger. ;)

Now in regards to the Noveske in this thread, the majority of the "blems" are nothing more than a minor stain or imperfection that can be removed with some steel wool. So there is NOTHING WRONG with it, it just didn't get a wipe down before it went into the box.


C4


sorry i went the extra mile to take it off it doesnt seem to be a minor stain. tried M-Pro7, soft brush and gun cloth and it did not go away.

the discoloration below the muzzle break was actually the blue finish coming off. and the rest who knows but it sure wont get off.

C4iGrant
12-01-2011, 6:19 PM
sorry i went the extra mile to take it off it doesnt seem to be a minor stain. tried M-Pro7, soft brush and gun cloth and it did not go away.

the discoloration below the muzzle break was actually the blue finish coming off. and the rest who knows but it sure wont get off.

None of those methods will work (FYI). That stain on your barrel is normal (we see it all the time AND get it off).





C4

hyperion.excal
12-01-2011, 6:21 PM
None of those methods will work (FYI). That stain on your barrel is normal (we see it all the time AND get it off).





C4

FYI the stain on the barrel is NOT normal. Even other people say its NOT.

C4iGrant
12-01-2011, 6:41 PM
FYI the stain on the barrel is NOT normal. Even other people say its NOT.

You could be right, but in my professional opinion of building AR's for 10 years, it can easily be fixed.

I will be in contact with this Noveske about this barrel and will see what they say about it when they get it back.



C4

hyperion.excal
12-01-2011, 6:49 PM
You could be right, but in my professional opinion of building AR's for 10 years, it can easily be fixed.

I will be in contact with this Noveske about this barrel and will see what they say about it when they get it back.



C4

with your 10 years experience of building ARs i cant believe you think this is normal. But yeah Go ahead. (not trying to be mean or anything)

C4iGrant
12-01-2011, 6:54 PM
with your 10 years experience of building ARs i cant believe you think this is normal. But yeah Go ahead. (not trying to be mean or anything)

Very normal. Then again I have seen THOUSANDS of AR's. Most people's experience is with a max of 5.

C4

L4D
12-01-2011, 7:07 PM
Very normal. Then again I have seen THOUSANDS of AR's. Most people's experience is with a max of 5.

C4

I've only owned 5 so far and if I were to get a 6th one that looked like that...id wonder wtf was wrong with it.

Yes it happens but its normal to you by ratio.

p2rider426
12-01-2011, 7:19 PM
No pics. I spoke to Joel im not sure if he is a CS. On other forums i heard he is a gun smith. He was very nice and easy going said he fully understand me and where im coming from. He will hand pick the "perfect" NOVESKE for me.

Noveske did not disappoint they will make sure that i am happy for christmas. Im also getting "ALOT" of free gifts too :D Im expecting Gold.

Now that's awesome! High five for Noveske :rockon: