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undercow16969
11-29-2011, 10:28 AM
I will upload pics later on but the rifles are 22-250 one traditional stock/rifle and the other a heavy barrel target one, both bolt action. I have never owned or shot a rifle of this caliber. I'm thinking that the .22 round is dirty and like the old ones sealed in wax. My grandfather-inlaw used to shoot prarie dogs with them at about 600 yards and I would like to know where you all go to get ammo that doesnt cost a fortune that would allow me to do that and also anything I may need to know about this particular type of rifle.

gun toting monkeyboy
11-29-2011, 11:31 AM
Ummm... .22-250 isn't an old black powder round. It is a .250 Savage necked down to .22 caliber. It is a popular varminting round, and you can find it online and in most sporting goods stores. I have even seen it in Walmart occasionally. If you want to shoot it more often, learn to reload. That will eventually bring your costs down. In the mean time, here is a link for ammo. It isn't all that expensive.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/138613/prvi-partizan-ammunition-22-250-remington-55-grain-soft-point-box-of-20

chuckdc
11-29-2011, 1:54 PM
Winchester makes USA (i.e. White Box) ammo in .22-250.

RugerNo1
11-29-2011, 2:05 PM
Winchester makes USA (i.e. White Box) ammo in .22-250.

...That shoots well and is made with Barnes Varmint Grenades (lead free). The 22-250 Remington has a very mild recoil and very flat shooting. My longest to date kill on a ground squirrel with my Ruger No. 1 Varminter is just a shade over 625 yards with ideal conditions.

The 22-250 seems to be inherantly accurate. Every load I have put through my rifle has stayed under 1 1/2 MOA and my best load hovers at 1/2 MOA at 100 yards and plenty dangerous to any ground squirrel within sane distances.

undercow16969
11-29-2011, 7:32 PM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=124665&d=1322627087
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=124664&d=1322626990 Now this one, 22 PPC? or at least thats what I think it says, what does it mean?
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=124663&d=1322626961
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=124662&d=1322626916

Here we go, and now that I have long rifles in cali...I don't know the laws for them either. All I know is bolt action is usually ok.

zfields
11-29-2011, 7:41 PM
Wow, very nice looking rifles.

Jeepers
11-29-2011, 7:59 PM
Now this one, 22 PPC? or at least thats what I think it says, what does it mean?its a benchrest cartridge

Historical Notes:

The 22 PPC was developed in 1974 by Dr. Louis Palmisano and Ferris Pindell, primarily as a benchrest cartridge. Although originally a wildcat, Sako of Finland introduced commercial rifles and ammunition late in 1987. Norma followed suit on 1993 with loaded ammunition. The cartridge is based on the 220 Russian case which is a necked down version of the 7.62x39mm Soviet military cartridge. The Wichita Engineering and Supply Co. made the first rifles for both the 22 PPC and 6mm PPC cartridges. Many custom rifles have been turned out in this caliber. In 1993 Ruger announced their No. 1V and M77 varmint rifles in this caliber.

General Comments:

The originators altered the 220 Russian case by giving it a 10% body taper and a 30% shoulder angle, as well as expanding the the neck to accept the standard .224" diameter bullet used in the U.S. The cartridge cases are made in Finland by Sako and in Sweden by Norma and use Small Rifle primers. Although the 22 PPC is a short rather stubby case only 1.51" long, it nevertheless develops ballistics superior to some larger, longer cartridges such as the 222 and the 223 Remington. The 52 grain bullet can be pushed out of the muzzle at over 3500 fps, and this definitely places the 22 PPC in the varmint and small game class. A 1 in 14 inch twist has become pretty much standard for these rifles although 1 in 12 inch twist sometimes be found.
http://www.reloadbench.com/cartridges/22ppc.htmlhttp://accurateshooter.net/salazar/22ppcbr200x300.jpg

undercow16969
11-29-2011, 8:11 PM
So both of these rifles I can still use the 22-250 or do I have to use the ppc for the wood stock rifle?

triggs75
11-29-2011, 8:18 PM
thats some pretty massive powder for a 22

Bhobbs
11-29-2011, 8:27 PM
So both of these rifles I can still use the 22-250 or do I have to use the ppc for the wood stock rifle?

You have the use the round the rifle is chambered for.

It looks like the wood stocked rifle says 22 PPC with a 252 neck diameter. You would have to reload for it as I don't think there are any factory options in .22 PPC and you would have to use neck bushings to get the correct neck diameter. You might also have to turn the necks so there won't be too much neck tension.

gun toting monkeyboy
11-29-2011, 9:04 PM
Those are some very serious rifles. You scored big time.

FXR
11-29-2011, 9:14 PM
On the synthetic stocked rifle, does that say 22-250 A-1 or A-I? If A-I, that stands for Ackley Improved, which is a common variation of many cartridges that involves steepening the shoulder to increase case capacity. You can shoot factory ammo at a slight loss of performance, and the brass will fireform to the AI dimensions, but you'll need a set of AI specific dies to reload. Nice rifles!

Desert_Rat
11-29-2011, 9:22 PM
Very nice! I hope you get many years of service out of them...but, the bi-pod is on backwards. Somebody has to say it.It's an easy fix though.

Coyote Brown
11-30-2011, 5:41 AM
Get gramps reloading dies and gear. Go to a reload class.

Or sell me the PPC . Even the Ackey Improved 22-250 really needs its correct case. These are reloaders guns.

undercow16969
11-30-2011, 9:27 AM
Very nice! I hope you get many years of service out of them...but, the bi-pod is on backwards. Somebody has to say it.It's an easy fix though. never had a rifle with a bipod myself:p

Get gramps reloading dies and gear. Go to a reload class.

Or sell me the PPC . Even the Ackey Improved 22-250 really needs its correct case. These are reloaders guns.

My grandfather inlaw (the guy that owned them) was a reloader himself. He has all of the equipment to do it and I can get it whenever I want, the bad thing is I do not have the know how.

undercow16969
11-30-2011, 9:29 AM
On the synthetic stocked rifle, does that say 22-250 A-1 or A-I? If A-I, that stands for Ackley Improved, which is a common variation of many cartridges that involves steepening the shoulder to increase case capacity. You can shoot factory ammo at a slight loss of performance, and the brass will fireform to the AI dimensions, but you'll need a set of AI specific dies to reload. Nice rifles!

The rifle does say A-1, so is this the one I can use "off the shelf" ammo with?

RugerNo1
11-30-2011, 10:10 AM
The rifle does say A-1, so is this the one I can use "off the shelf" ammo with?

Both 22-250 and 22-250 Ackley will chamber a 22-250 "off the shelf" loaded round. However, you will need to reload to get the most out of the rifle if it is a 22-250 Ackley.

Pretty rifles! 22 PPCs are usually very very accurate rifles. You may want to further research the 22 PPC as the neck diameter may require you to turn down the case neck to fit inside the chamber.

undercow16969
11-30-2011, 12:42 PM
This all still sounds french to me.

Bhobbs
11-30-2011, 12:54 PM
This all still sounds french to me.

.22 ppc is a bench rest competition round. It is not a factory round. You have to form the case from another round and then load it.

If your .22-250 is an ackley improved that means the round is modified. Po ackley modified rounds by removing case taper and changing the shoulder angle. The rifle can still chamber and shoot standard .22-250 but the case will be blown out to the new dimensions. If you want to shoot the modified round you will have to load it using improved dies.

undercow16969
11-30-2011, 6:23 PM
Ok, after a few long conversations at work and lots of research online, I think I am understanding all of this.

The 22-250 is the synthetic stock. The A-1 could mean that the taper is different but nontheless can shoot a 22-250 "off the shelf" round. I will find out if the taper is different (AI) after it is shot and compare the differences between the brass.

The wood stock, This one actually took me a while to figure out, many thanks for all of the advice. 22 PPC, The wood stock rifle says 252 ND, thats the only thing I have left. If I am thinking correctly, that means that its a .252 chamber that is fitted for a 22-250 ball. anyone?

Coyote Brown
11-30-2011, 6:39 PM
Take these to a gunsmith and have a cast made of the chamber. This will clear up any questions of what to load in them.
I would hate to hear of a kaboom because you just had to try the wrong ammunition.

Bhobbs
12-01-2011, 9:42 AM
The wood stock, This one actually took me a while to figure out, many thanks for all of the advice. 22 PPC, The wood stock rifle says 252 ND, thats the only thing I have left. If I am thinking correctly, that means that its a .252 chamber that is fitted for a 22-250 ball. anyone?

I'm not sure what you mean by .22-250 ball but .22-250 and .22 PPC are completely different rounds. That rifle is chambered for .22 PPC.

Dirtbiker
12-01-2011, 9:52 AM
What kind of glass do you have on there? Probably pretty darn expensive considering the chamberings of the rifles.

RugerNo1
12-01-2011, 10:12 AM
The .252 ND means that the loaded neck diameter of the 22 PPC round is 0.252''. I am unfamiliar with the chambering, but that loaded ND may require more brass preparation.

Read this article about a rifle in 22 PPC: http://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of-week/gunweek067/

If you have any more questions you should sign up at http://forum.accurateshooter.com/ and ask some of your more advanced questions there. I am sure you will get plenty of advice and information from real shooters that know about these more obscure chamberings.

hcbr
12-01-2011, 10:29 AM
nice rifles!

undercow16969
12-01-2011, 1:00 PM
I'm not sure what you mean by .22-250 ball but .22-250 and .22 PPC are completely different rounds. That rifle is chambered for .22 PPC.

By ball, I mean the FMJ (if you will) that is common to a 22-250. If I am understanding correctly the brass is a size other than a 22-250 lets just say .243 as a generic common round that is fitted for a .22 by means of reloading. :helpsmilie:

Bhobbs
12-01-2011, 1:08 PM
By ball, I mean the FMJ (if you will) that is common to a 22-250. If I am understanding correctly the brass is a size other than a 22-250 lets just say .243 as a generic common round that is fitted for a .22 by means of reloading. :helpsmilie:

You mean the bullet itself? Yes, the .22-250 and .22 PPC use .224 diameter projectiles. The .22-250 has a 1:14 twist rate which is used with lighter projectiles that are used for varmints like the Varmint grenade. Check the .22 PPC and see if you can find the twist rate. If it is in the 1:8 to 1:7 range, you can load it with the longer, more efficient bullets like the 77 to 90 grain bullets. The 90 grain bullets need a 1:7 or faster twist.

kmullins
12-01-2011, 1:11 PM
The .22-250 "A-1" could mean several different things, like was already stated it would be best to take it to a gunsmith and get a chamber cast made.

The .22 PPC is made by necking a 6 PPC case (originally a .220 Russian case) down to .224 caliber. The ".252 ND" means the outside of the case necks must measure .252" when the round is loaded. This is accomplished by neck turning brass down to that size. The purpose of a fitted neck chamber is to have a custom neck size measurement by which you can increase accuracy due to consistent, fitted brass necks.

The .22-250 and .22 PPC are in no way related! The only trait they share is they are both .22 caliber. That's it.

efnick
12-01-2011, 1:29 PM
those are some badass, very specific rifles. i wish i inherited something of such quality!

toby
12-01-2011, 3:43 PM
I don't believe A-1 was ever used for an Ackley round most markings are AI,Ack,Ackley, Ackeley IMP. 250 Ackley,250AI,250 IMP. ......I have never seen a dash on an Ackley version. Although the 1-14 marking, would be the twist rate of the barrel it will shoot light weight bullets pretty well!

undercow16969
12-04-2011, 8:43 PM
Ok, so after my trip to a local gun store today, the staff there has told me that the synthetic stock is an ackley improved rifle and that is in fact what the a-1 means.

The wood stock rifle though is a neck down from a 7.62 x 39? any thoughts? and the barrel is a 1-12" twist.

Coyote Brown
12-04-2011, 9:29 PM
There are books , logs and or journals with the dies ect. Learn to read what the owner and builder of these rifles had to say. Any thing else is speculation.