PDA

View Full Version : Where Do I Start?


Ahmad
11-28-2011, 10:42 PM
I want to build an AR from scratch. It'll be my first firearm period and I want it to be mine.

There are a few things that I want but I don't know if they're possible let alone legal.

1. I want a rail system WITHOUT a delta ring.
2. I want it to shoot 7.62
3. I want a magpul UBR stock.


I want a lower that I'm comfortable with so I can just swap uppers.
http://i39.tinypic.com/1zxocnn.jpg

So if you can tell me what's expensive, illegal, legal, crazy, doesn't exist, etc. Am I even allowed to shoot 7.62?

Can I make this AR? Will it be ridiculous? Feel free to yell at me and call me a noob.

MrPlink
11-28-2011, 10:52 PM
can and has been done, will be very expensive.
Frankly, if its your first 7.62 is not your best choice, I know you dont want to hear this and deep down inside you think this is an insult on your manly-hood, but its the truth for several reasons.

Mainly, ease of use and price

Go with something cheaper to shoot, it will get you more range time which is going to make you a better shot, which is FAR more important than big calibers, free float rails, fancy optics and any other ninja gear you may like

The Virus
11-28-2011, 10:58 PM
hope you have a large budget.......

Ahmad
11-28-2011, 11:00 PM
Price is a big deal for me considering I'm a full time student and I don't get many hours at GameStop. Can you give me an outline for the parts and prices that I should look into? I can mix and match accordingly.

I may just sell one of my Rickenbackers. That should get me a decent chunk of change.

five.five-six
11-28-2011, 11:07 PM
you can economicly build a rifle in 7.62















7.62X39

Ahmad
11-28-2011, 11:12 PM
I'm just not an AK guy. However I do appreciate them and understand their appeal.

dirtykoala
11-28-2011, 11:18 PM
a basic 308 build will be right around 1 grand, without your nice options and with cheap parts. quality parts with nice options will run up to 2k+ easily.

id say go for a 5.56 build, ammo is cheaper, the build is cheaper, and you will get out and use it more since you wont be dumping $200 on ammo every range trip.

five.five-six
11-28-2011, 11:21 PM
I'm just not an AK guy. However I do appreciate them and understand their appeal.

no, you can get a 7.62X39 upper for a ar-15 but no, it's not a .308

it just seems that everything is more expensive for an AR-10, and harder to find

elephantrider
11-28-2011, 11:22 PM
Yes, what you are proposing is bordering on ridiculous. Especially considering that this is your first firearm and you are on a somewhat limited budget.

That having been said, nearly all of what you propose for your .308 build is possible and can be done legally. The short barreled upper that you have pictured would likely not be legal, as it would be classified as an SBR (Short Barreled Rifle) and not at all legal in CA.

I would strongly recommend that you not build or buy a .308 caliber AR (reasons too many to list) for a first rifle. Instead, I would recommend a 5.56 AR-15 carbine built with quality parts. You will be better off and happier in the long run.

If you provide some details on how you plan to use your new rifle, and what your budget is, folks here can help steer you in the right direction.

Why are you dead set on the UBR stock?

Droppin Deuces
11-28-2011, 11:34 PM
Full time student working at Gamestop would be the first thing to consider here. Nevermind the price of the gun. Have you looked at price of .308 ammo? Start small. As a new shooter, you will get a lot of satisfaction out of a 5.56 rifle.

tecate_gt5
11-28-2011, 11:39 PM
save your self time and money buy a saiga in .308 and 1000rds and some furniture.

pacifico23
11-28-2011, 11:46 PM
With a gamestop employee abd student budget?? Stick with a .556 caliber; and a PSA upper flattop with a drop in rail.

That or get a Saiga and convert it to an AK.

dirtykoala
11-28-2011, 11:49 PM
With a gamestop employee abd student budget?? Stick with a .556 caliber; and a PSA upper flattop with a drop in rail.

That or get a Saiga and convert it to an AK.

5.56*

tecate_gt5
11-28-2011, 11:50 PM
With a gamestop employee abd student budget?? Stick with a .556 caliber; and a PSA upper flattop with a drop in rail.

That or get a Saiga and convert it to an AK.

that sounds about right^^^

pyro3k2
11-29-2011, 12:11 AM
The .308 version of the AR is going to be VERY expensive and time consuming if you want to assemble it yourself. The parts are not standardized like the AR-15 they are more dependant on the company who built it. The two most common patterns in .308 AR area are the DPMS pattern and the Armalite pattern. Typically the DPMS pattern parts are easier to find, but they are about equal in price ranges. Both have their high and low end versions.

In terms of legality as long as you don't some how end up with an actual Armalite AR-10 or something on the list it will be very easy to make it compliant.

Since this is going to be your first firearm and your first semi-auto may I suggest getting the AR-15. Ammo will be much cheaper and you can really take it out and shoot it as much as you want. I had a .308 AR at one point, all said and done it cost me $2800 and even shooting the military surplus ammo was $0.50 every time I pulled the trigger or $5 per mag. And let me tell you how easy it is to shoot an entire mag with a semi-auto. I was shooting myself into the poor house, but it was a lot of fun to shoot.
http://i316.photobucket.com/albums/mm349/DrCuddlez_86/Outside%20rifle%20picks/P3260139.jpg

Ahmad
11-29-2011, 12:12 AM
I've decided to pursue a 5.56 AR-15. Can anyone offer an outline that I can cross reference with other outlines for my unique situation?

To the person who asked about the UBR, I like its feel, look, functionality, quality, and the pocket that you can take off or keep on.

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/v/vspfiles/photos/Mag330%20UBR%20Stock%20BLACK-2T.jpg

dirtykoala
11-29-2011, 12:13 AM
I've decided to pursue a 5.56 AR-15. Can anyone offer an outline that I can cross reference with other outlines for my unique situation?


an outline for what?

pyro3k2
11-29-2011, 12:17 AM
I've decided to pursue a 5.56 AR-15. Can anyone offer an outline that I can cross reference with other outlines for my unique situation?

going to have to expand on that a little and give more detail please.

maxwellca21
11-29-2011, 12:19 AM
stag arm model 1...basic and to the point. around $850 if you build it yourself.

dirtykoala
11-29-2011, 12:21 AM
spikes tactical lower, $150ish- lower parts kit, $90ish- 16" upper with rail, $600ish- stock and grip of your choice, prices vary

you should shoot with iron sights for a while before you buy an optic. that acog in your OP runs about $1200, if you used that money for ammo instead you would be a much better shooter than you would by buying an acog.

MrPlink
11-29-2011, 12:21 AM
start here. Can be had for under 500 dollars. 500rds can be had for under 20 dollars, which means you can shoot ALL day even with a ramen budget.

All the same functions as an AR, so its a GREAT training rifle, even if you have the big boy versions.
Very easy to use for a beginner, but functions well enough that a pro will still enjoy it.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/images/61690.jpg

Smith and Wesson M&P 15-22

Ahmad
11-29-2011, 12:22 AM
A recommended parts list. With prices if possible. I'll teach myself to put it all together. It seems pretty easy.

Again thanks a lot guys. I didn't expect I'd get this much help.

Droppin Deuces
11-29-2011, 12:24 AM
You really aren't doing yourself any favors by building a budget rifle with a $250 stock...

Ahmad
11-29-2011, 12:27 AM
I already have a CTR stock. Selling that toward the ubr. The stock is a big deal for me.

dirtykoala
11-29-2011, 12:27 AM
start here. Can be had for under 500 dollars. 500rds can be had for under 20 dollars, which means you can shoot ALL day even with a ramen budget.

All the same functions as an AR, so its a GREAT training rifle, even if you have the big boy versions.
Very easy to use for a beginner, but functions well enough that a pro will still enjoy it.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/images/61690.jpg

Smith and Wesson M&P 15-22

the barrel diameter is close to 5.56, but that is nowhere near the gun he is looking for, it just looks like it sort of.

ETA- he also wont learn crap about the AR with that gun except for how to hold it

Ahmad
11-29-2011, 12:30 AM
Keep it coming.

maxwellca21
11-29-2011, 12:33 AM
Stag Arms Model 1H
SKU: STAG-1H

________________________________________
Stag Arms Lower Receiver Parts Kit
SKU: STAG-LPK
________________________________________
Stag Arms Tactical 6-Position Stock Assembly
SKU: STAG-TACSTOCK
________________________________________
C Products 10 Round 20 Straight Magazine .223/5.56mm
SKU: CP-1020MAG
________________________________________
Raddlock AR Series Magazine Lock w/Two Position Operation-Raddlock AR Series Magazine Lock, Black
SKU: RADD-AR-BLK
________________________________________
Rock River Arms Tactical CAR Stock Wrench
SKU: RRA-AR0165


this is the list i put together for my first AR i bought from riflegear.com

dirtykoala
11-29-2011, 12:33 AM
Keep it coming.

thats a .22 cal posted above.

Ahmad
11-29-2011, 12:40 AM
I'm going to hit up Ammo Bros in Cerritos but I'm writing these things down so I can bring something to the table.

Kerplow
11-29-2011, 12:44 AM
you can economicly build a rifle in 7.62















7.62X39

Here is a 308 AR for under $1100. :shrug:

http://site.cdnninvestments.com/CDNN2011-4/index.html

zfields
11-29-2011, 4:12 AM
Price is a big deal for me considering I'm a full time student and I don't get many hours at GameStop. Can you give me an outline for the parts and prices that I should look into? I can mix and match accordingly.

I may just sell one of my Rickenbackers. That should get me a decent chunk of change.

You need to stop and re-evaluate your life right there. Those things are getting nothing more but MORE collectible.

MrPlink
11-29-2011, 8:44 PM
the barrel diameter is close to 5.56, but that is nowhere near the gun he is looking for, it just looks like it sort of.

ETA- he also wont learn crap about the AR with that gun except for how to hold it

so are you trying to tell me he wont learn shooting fundamentals, how the sights work, or the manual of arms ie the important stuff?
Have you even handled a 15-22, because it sounds like you dont have the first clue about em.

You need to stop and re-evaluate your life right there. Those things are getting nothing more but MORE collectible.

Eh, if its newer production why not? If its vintage, maybe not.

Of course, all of mine were vintage and now I dont own a single one (Im a fender/gibson guy)

I also cant say Ive ever sold any of my nicer gear for gun stuff, just low to mid end stuff that was collecting dust.

gunsarefun
11-29-2011, 9:06 PM
start here. Can be had for under 500 dollars. 500rds can be had for under 20 dollars, which means you can shoot ALL day even with a ramen budget.

All the same functions as an AR, so its a GREAT training rifle, even if you have the big boy versions.
Very easy to use for a beginner, but functions well enough that a pro will still enjoy it.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/images/61690.jpg

Smith and Wesson M&P 15-22
I'm going with what he said.

OP,
Have you ever even shot a .308 rifle? AR10's are big rifles. They are heavier, and bulkier to start with, not to mention the big recoil and boom of a .308 round. You would likely find almost immediately that it is more gun than you feel comfortable with, since you are new to guns.

I'd go with an AR style .22 like mentioned. You would be suprised how much fun you would have shooting that gun pictured above.

dirtykoala
11-29-2011, 10:44 PM
so are you trying to tell me he wont learn shooting fundamentals, how the sights work, or the manual of arms ie the important stuff?
Have you even handled a 15-22, because it sounds like you dont have the first clue about em.



Eh, if its newer production why not? If its vintage, maybe not.

Of course, all of mine were vintage and now I dont own a single one (Im a fender/gibson guy)

I also cant say Ive ever sold any of my nicer gear for gun stuff, just low to mid end stuff that was collecting dust.

I didn't realize you were suggesting the .22 so that he could become familiar with the points you mentioned. If that's the case, an AR15 in 5.56 will suit him perfectly, and has more uses than a .22.

Droppin Deuces
11-29-2011, 11:06 PM
I'm going with what he said.

OP,
Have you ever even shot a .308 rifle? AR10's are big rifles. They are heavier, and bulkier to start with, not to mention the big recoil and boom of a .308 round. You would likely find almost immediately that it is more gun than you feel comfortable with, since you are new to guns.

I'd go with an AR style .22 like mentioned. You would be suprised how much fun you would have shooting that gun pictured above.

Well, last night he suggested that he was some kind of weapons master who has never owned a gun. But then he edited that post. Unless it's still there and I missed it. Anyway, I assume that meant he has fired a .308.

MrPlink
11-30-2011, 3:35 AM
Op: you mentioned you own some Ricks so here is an analogy you should appreciated.

Shortly after Chet Atkins received an early version of what would be the Gretsch Country Gentleman he took it to a gig. After the performance a patron came up to him and said "Wow, that guitar sounds amazing!" Chet handed the man the guitar and said, "How does it sound now?"

Point being, dont worry about fancy (expensive) calibers and whiz bang gizmos on a rifle, you need to build fundamentals first. If you just want to brag about specs and look cool at the range while shooting groups the size of a barn door, then by all means focus your time energy and MONEY on a fancy rifle to start with.

A lot of people here are going to get VERY defensive at this notion, because frankly they fit that description rather well. This place is filled to the brim with new shooters who are jumping on the AR craze and just had to build themselves a fancy mall ninja rifle.

At the end of the day there is nothing inherently "wrong" with starting with a fancy gun (for which Im sure calgunners will be coming out the wood work exclaiming "my first rifle was a top tier blah blah blah and shoot just fine!) Im just trying to say that if you really want to get into the sport focus on what matters not specs and gizmos

dirtykoala
11-30-2011, 3:57 AM
Op: you mentioned you own some Ricks so here is an analogy you should appreciated.

Shortly after Chet Atkins received an early version of what would be the Gretsch Country Gentleman he took it to a gig. After the performance a patron came up to him and said "Wow, that guitar sounds amazing!" Chet handed the man the guitar and said, "How does it sound now?"

Point being, dont worry about fancy (expensive) calibers and whiz bang gizmos on a rifle, you need to build fundamentals first. If you just want to brag about specs and look cool at the range while shooting groups the size of a barn door, then by all means focus your time energy and MONEY on a fancy rifle to start with.

A lot of people here are going to get VERY defensive at this notion, because frankly they fit that description rather well. This place is filled to the brim with new shooters who are jumping on the AR craze and just had to build themselves a fancy mall ninja rifle.

At the end of the day there is nothing inherently "wrong" with starting with a fancy gun (for which Im sure calgunners will be coming out the wood work exclaiming "my first rifle was a top tier blah blah blah and shoot just fine!) Im just trying to say that if you really want to get into the sport focus on what matters not specs and gizmos

Excellent post, well said. Cheap .223 is not much more expensive (and sometimes less expensive) than quality .22, so 5.56 makes a good cost savings gun for ammo, and the AR15 is pretty inexpensive too, my 10/22 costs more than many ARs.

holding off on high priced optics and lights and lasers is a good idea. like i said, stick with iron sights and use your mall ninja money for ammo and range time. i see some really nice ARs at the range every time im there and it hard to not LOL when i pass by their target and see the "groups" they are making.

get a rifle chambered in 5.56, it will accept 5.56 and .223, if you get a rifle chambered in .223 the 5.56 pressures are higher and could damage your rifle. Learn the rifle well, build it your self, take it apart from time to time, clean it frequently, take it shooting lots, really learn it.

and attend an apple seed event when you get your rifle!

i started shooting handguns when i was pretty young, the first rifle that i really put a good amount of ammo down range with a rifle was my issued M16A2 and i became proficient with the rifle very quickly. a quality rifle, and some good instruction (apple seed), will set you up for a long time.

dieselpower
11-30-2011, 5:17 AM
The first thing you need to know is, Do you OWN research. You need to take charge and do it yourself. You are wanting to build a firearm and are asking people for advise. Thats great, but when you start asking for build prices and time-lines those are thing YOU need to do.

Start with my build list. There are several links to pricing sheets in the posts that follow. Brownell's has a 13 page printable build sheet on line (link in my post) that you can use. Put my build list on top for ease of scanning to see what parts you still need.

To get rid of the Delta ring, delete the Delta ring, Weld Spring, Slip Ring, Handguard cap, Front Sight Base, Barrel Nut and Handguards from the barrel assembly. Add a Free Float rail system from YHM, MI, Troy, DD or GG&G. The gas block needs to be low profile to fit under the FF rail system. An easy way to do this yourself is to buy a barrel with a gas port and then buy a YHM Specter Low Profile clamp-on gas block. As long as the Gas block screws are torques down hard it will not move around. Search you tube for installation videos of FF rail systems to see what you are getting into. Its very easy though. There is a good one on installing YHM FF systems.

Print out all my links (buy new ink cartridges first...hahaha)

Good luck.

Good luck

Dion
11-30-2011, 5:48 AM
Love the S&W .22 - a great suggestion!

Call me old, but thre are CG'ers selling Mini-14's for 1/4 of what that big AR build would be. I know featureless isn't fun in terms of looks, but dump a mag on a Mini-14 or M1 Carbine and tell us it was "boring". :)

Mini's can be bought new at Big 5 with minimal effort, and the .223 is a much more softer round than a .308, if the .22 rimfire is too small for you.

Featureless guns don't get enough love on this forum!

You can also go with the "poor man's AR" and start off with a HiPoint 9mm Carbine. When you're done, sell it to me for cheap!

coyotebait
11-30-2011, 5:59 AM
Op: you mentioned you own some Ricks so here is an analogy you should appreciated.

Shortly after Chet Atkins received an early version of what would be the Gretsch Country Gentleman he took it to a gig. After the performance a patron came up to him and said "Wow, that guitar sounds amazing!" Chet handed the man the guitar and said, "How does it sound now?"

Point being, dont worry about fancy (expensive) calibers and whiz bang gizmos on a rifle, you need to build fundamentals first. If you just want to brag about specs and look cool at the range while shooting groups the size of a barn door, then by all means focus your time energy and MONEY on a fancy rifle to start with.

A lot of people here are going to get VERY defensive at this notion, because frankly they fit that description rather well. This place is filled to the brim with new shooters who are jumping on the AR craze and just had to build themselves a fancy mall ninja rifle.

At the end of the day there is nothing inherently "wrong" with starting with a fancy gun (for which Im sure calgunners will be coming out the wood work exclaiming "my first rifle was a top tier blah blah blah and shoot just fine!) Im just trying to say that if you really want to get into the sport focus on what matters not specs and gizmos

Mine was a Squire Bingham 22 rifle, second was a single shot 20 gauge shotgun, as a result, at age 12 I was shooting just as well as my parents and most of their friends.
22's don't have the "wow" factor of a 308, but if one wants to truly "wow" someone, do it with good shooting and fundamentals.

Agent Tikki
11-30-2011, 6:06 AM
Read this.

http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/General-Advice-AR-Buy-t37314.html