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View Full Version : Muzzle Brake or Flash Hider?


Mossy Man
11-28-2011, 1:21 PM
This appears to me to be a muzzle brake by design and name.

Just wanted to check with your guys' opinion.

http://gunandsurplus.com/images/PICTURES/XTA_John_Masen_Muzzle_Brake_STAINLESS_STEEL_MATTE. jpg

http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/large/896/896392.jpg

MrPlink
11-28-2011, 1:36 PM
If it does not say "flash hider" then its gtg for a featureless (ie mini14)

Mossy Man
11-28-2011, 4:18 PM
i see 2 voted FH. care to explain your choice?

dieselpower
11-28-2011, 4:23 PM
i see 2 voted FH. care to explain your choice?

big time... I think they may have just thought this was a "What do you have on your rifle" poll.

Ubermcoupe
11-28-2011, 8:46 PM
show me the business end and i’ll tell you. ;)

Cali-Shooter
11-28-2011, 8:48 PM
It says "muzzlebrake." What more confirmation do you need?

Mossy Man
11-28-2011, 8:55 PM
show me the business end and i’ll tell you. ;)

http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/large/896/896392.jpg

WDE91
11-28-2011, 8:55 PM
It says "muzzlebrake." What more confirmation do you need?

unfortunately enough this as not as simple as it seems
I could go as extreme as this,

Flash hiders block flash correct? This is something we can all agree upon
Are polarized sunglasses flash hiders?
They are blocking the flash from the shooters view

See it is not cut and dry :cool:

That example was given to me from a VERY well known firearms attorney
he actually got someone from I believe it was DOJ to admit that sunglasses are indeed flash hiders :p

LBDamned
11-28-2011, 9:03 PM
CGN the land of riddles...

msand951
11-28-2011, 9:05 PM
Thats what I have on my mini your gtg.

dfletcher
11-28-2011, 9:20 PM
It says "muzzlebrake." What more confirmation do you need?

This gets very confusing and is a reason why I don't pay attention to what they're called:

http://www.clarkcustomguns.com/m14cmt1.htm

http://www.riflestock.com/catalog_page_detail.cfm?recordno=9&Product_CatalogID=2916&ProductNumber=07%2D07%2D12&ProductCode=1&ProductSubCodeID=253&NewProduct=0

http://www.thewarbirds.com/Main%20Page/Warbirds%20BXPX/Supply%20Room/Firearm%20Accessories/Accessories/mini%2014%20muzzle%20brake%20stainless.htm

Same device with all sorts of names.

dfletcher
11-28-2011, 9:27 PM
unfortunately enough this as not as simple as it seems
I could go as extreme as this,

Flash hiders block flash correct? This is something we can all agree upon
Are polarized sunglasses flash hiders?
They are blocking the flash from the shooters view

See it is not cut and dry :cool:

That example was given to me from a VERY well known firearms attorney
he actually got someone from I believe it was DOJ to admit that sunglasses are indeed flash hiders :p

Actually it's "redirects muzzle flash away from the shooter's field of vision" as opposed to blocking - sunglasses don't redirect, they block. Using the attorney's definition someone sticking their hand in front of my eye is a flash hider.

I tend to use page 2/3 of the attached:
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/fsor.pdf

I think part of the problem we run into is that as a practical matter a brake is also an FH. Prohibiting a device that redirects muzzle flash is not as clean as prohibiting a device that redirects flash ONLY and does not reduce recoil impulse. If brakes are not prohibited the law should have included words to the effect that a device is a brake and exempt if it reduces recoil impulse, what it does with flash is unimportant if the device is a brake. I suppose a standard test could be had to check for recoil impulse.

Unless confusing the hell out of everyone and making the law unenforceable was the intent ....

Mossy Man
11-28-2011, 9:31 PM
Thats what I have on my mini your gtg.

how hard was the installation?

I have an older 196 series with the single front blade

Mossy Man
11-28-2011, 9:36 PM
Actually it's "redirects muzzle flash away from the shooter's field of vision" as opposed to blocking - sunglasses don't redirect, they block. Using the attorney's definition someone sticking their hand in front of my eye is a flash hider.

I tend to use page 2/3 of the attached:
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/fsor.pdf

so, based on these two photos, which is it to you?

brianm767
11-28-2011, 10:32 PM
I'm no expert, but it's my belief that one difference is that a brake will have an exit hole the same size as the bullet diameter, or at least it will be very close to the exit, a FH will open up at the base at the barrel end and stay open till the end.

Is that a hole the size of the bullet through a plate just inside the end? Pic is hard to see inside the piece, if it is, I say brake, if it is fully open from the end to the barrel, I say FH.

Mirador
11-28-2011, 11:19 PM
Using the attorney's definition someone sticking their hand in front of my eye is a flash hider.


LOL i love this quote , I see no evil- i just cover my eyes.

Mirador
11-28-2011, 11:52 PM
interestingly enough i just checked on John Masen site who manufactures this item and it looks as if he has already cleared it with the legal brains of California doj/ATF regs. in order to sell it as a break and not FH. The site has other items defined as Break which are not CA legal and this item is, thus it must have cleared the legal status of being a Break instead of Flash. Oh hell I still think, by design it is a FH rather than MB.

IrishPirate
11-29-2011, 12:02 AM
It says "muzzlebrake." What more confirmation do you need?

yeah, and slidefire stocks came with a letter saying they were legal. Sorry, but still lots of grey on this end. One thing that I would say might get you in hot water is the diameter of the inner cavity. Most flash hiders have an inner cavity several time the diameter of the bullet whereas muzzlebrakes have an opening only slightly bigger than the bullet. (this is on the flow chart too)

muzzlebrake, flash hider, compensator.....sounds alot like clip vs magazine. Different things but the names are used interchangeably. I wouldn't trust a company's packaging to keep me out of jail unless it came with a pre-loaded visa card for attorney fees.

dieselpower
11-29-2011, 6:36 AM
show me the business end and i’ll tell you. ;)

interestingly enough i just checked on John Masen site who manufactures this item and it looks as if he has already cleared it with the legal brains of California doj/ATF regs. in order to sell it as a break and not FH. The site has other items defined as Break which are not CA legal and this item is, thus it must have cleared the legal status of being a Break instead of Flash. Oh hell I still think, by design it is a FH rather than MB.

This is California... ATF rules don't always apply.

IF its marketed as a Flash Hider by the manufacturer, its a Flash Hider whether or not it hides any flash. There is no rule on items marketed as any thing else. You must refer to the devices design intent or function....The law says,...
Accordingly, this final revision “flash suppressor means any
device designed, intended, or that functions to reduce or redirect muzzle flash from the shooter’s field of vision,”

So a Muzzle brake may infact reduce or redirect flash and be legal, because that was not the DESIGN INTENT or its FUNCTION. That is just a byproduct of the Brake doing its job...what it was designed to do..which is redirect the gasses to hold the barrel stable without regard to a shooter vision.

Therefore.... if it was DESIGNED as a Brake... Marketed as a Brake...its NOT a flash hider even if it does hide a flash.