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ARFAN
11-27-2011, 1:02 PM
No money to go for long weekend vacation. I got bored and stayed home to finish tactical dress up for my AK47.
it is a USA armory Bulgaria AK; Mako recoild stock; UTG quadrail, RMR reddot with ADM quick release mount; smith interprise muzzle brake. :D
At least I can enjoy my long weekend with this.:p


http://calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=124283&d=1322427614

Mamluke
11-27-2011, 1:17 PM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=124283&d=1322427614

^^^^ ... wow... ^^^^

What kind of mag is that?

Rebellious
11-27-2011, 1:21 PM
Looks good. Have any more pics?

NorCalK9.com
11-27-2011, 1:35 PM
Very nice!

zfields
11-27-2011, 1:42 PM
Hows the rail? Ive actually herd good things about the UTG AK rail.

nickyrr
11-27-2011, 1:49 PM
It wasnt until this weekend that I ever thought of buying an AK.. now I cant stop browsing the internet hunting for my soon to be 1st AK... In the mean time I'm enjoying your AK pics

nickyrr
11-27-2011, 1:53 PM
Anybody knows who is the manufacturer that sells the upper receiver cover that have a built in rails?

zfields
11-27-2011, 1:55 PM
Anybody knows who is the manufacturer that sells the upper receiver cover that have a built in rails?

Dont use them, they are NOT stable enough to run optics on them. Also AK's dont have upper receivers, they have a receiver and a dust cover.

Now, a Texas Weapon Systems Dog Leg Gen 2 Is a different story.

http://texasweaponsystems.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/TWS/PIC_0038Rev.jpg

H2O MAN
11-27-2011, 2:05 PM
Nicely done ARFAN




That Dog Leg Gen 2 looks pretty good...

I went with UltiMAK rails on my AKM and I have no regrets.

http://www.athenswater.com/images/H2OsAKM.JPG

chozenfew805
11-27-2011, 2:06 PM
Sweet looking setup. How do you like the Mako recoil reducing stock?

Richard Erichsen
11-27-2011, 4:42 PM
No money to go for long weekend vacation. I got bored and stayed home to finish tactical dress up for my AK47.
it is a USA armory Bulgaria AK; Mako recoild stock; UTG quadrail, RMR reddot with ADM quick release mount; smith interprise muzzle brake. :D
At least I can enjoy my long weekend with this.:p

ARFAN,

Thanks for sharing. I like a lot of what you did here. I went a different route with my first M70 build that is just short of final finishing tasks. Have you thought about what you want to use for a finish?

Part of the reason my M70 build ended up being so "tactical" is the difficulty I had in finding all the parts I needed for an M70 build. I didn't have a full kit, just a few loose parts. The gas tube ended up being the Ultimak M9, so naturally while I was at it I ended up with the ACR2 handguard from the same vendor. Enough "cheese grater" attachments to take some skin off an exposed knee as I found out while working on it. Rail covers are a good idea when the rail segment is not in use.... ;)

I used the following bits and pieces:

* ACE skeleton stock with ACE Yugo stock adapter (Yugo trunnions are different than AKM)
* Tapco side optic rail - needed some filing to flatten
* FA Enterprises muzzle brake
* Red Star Arms FCG
* Ultimak ACR2-MC railed handguards (Yugo and milled)
* Ultimak M9 gas tube picatinny rail (Yugo specific)
* Venom Tactical integrated gas block/front sight milled out for the thicker M70 barrel
* Tech-Sights AK200Y single aperture windage/elevation adjustable rear peep, locks to the rear trunnion "T" cross section (very stable/repeatable after field strip)
* Solar Tactical grip strap
* Andy's Leather 3 point Ching Sling on Uncle Mike's 1.25" sling swivels
* Green Mountain chrome lined "1970" barrel (M70)

Last on the list for this rifle will be fitting the Cadiz Gunworks LRBHO catch and lever and applying a coat of black molyresin.

R

zfields
11-27-2011, 4:46 PM
Richard,

How do you compare the RSA FCG to the tapco g2?

nickyrr
11-27-2011, 5:48 PM
Dont use them, they are NOT stable enough to run optics on them. Also AK's dont have upper receivers, they have a receiver and a dust cover.

Now, a Texas Weapon Systems Dog Leg Gen 2 Is a different story.

http://texasweaponsystems.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/TWS/PIC_0038Rev.jpg

Thanks for the heads up.... What is the best way to put an optic other than those exoskeleton metal thing that attaches on the side... I'm looking exactly like yours ala AR but stable enough to hold optics?

zfields
11-27-2011, 6:41 PM
Texas weapon systems is the one I posted, Not my rifle ( I wish ), also ultimak / midwest industries if you want a forward mounted optic.

j.primo
11-27-2011, 6:50 PM
Nice magazine:cool2:

Richard Erichsen
11-28-2011, 10:41 AM
Richard,

How do you compare the RSA FCG to the tapco g2?

That's easy - the adjustable RSA I use on all my Yugo builds can be adjusted with allen wrenches (a good and BAD thing if you like to fiddle with things) for single or dual stage, adjust the first stage, second stage, pre-travel and so on. The G2 is a utilitarian trigger that "works." All adjustment of the G2 is accomplished with grinding and polishing.

The RSA is quite nicely made, though I doubt milled vs. cast matters as long as there isn't any flashing sticking out on the castings and the parts are properly hardened. I did a preliminary polish job on some of the trigger parts, but it was already a pretty clean break. The RSA is a costly little bugger but I got this one for $49.95 on clearance and am happy with it.

Whether this turns me into a marksman or not, who knows. But it sure does feel nice. ;)

R

zfields
11-28-2011, 10:45 AM
That's easy - the adjustable RSA I use on all my Yugo builds can be adjusted with allen wrenches (a good and BAD thing if you like to fiddle with things) for single or dual stage, adjust the first stage, second stage, pre-travel and so on. It's quite nice. I did a preliminary polish job on some of the parts, but it was already a pretty clean break. I really like them, costly little buggers but very nice. I have the one on my M70B2 set with a 2.75 lb secondary pull, which is about as light as you can go before making for a very touchy trigger.

Whether this turns me into a marksman or not, who knows. But it sure does feel nice. ;)

R

Good to know. IF I ever build up a PSL or something similar I will take a look at them. I really dig the G2's ive used so far, but they have all been for plain jane Ak's

Richard Erichsen
11-28-2011, 1:56 PM
Texas weapon systems is the one I posted, Not my rifle ( I wish ), also ultimak / midwest industries if you want a forward mounted optic.

Texas weapon systems is the one I posted, Not my rifle ( I wish ), also ultimak / midwest industries if you want a forward mounted optic.

The Texas Weapon Systems Dog Leg 2 is a top cover mount, but the method of attachment is the rear trunnion "T" cross section and it replaces the back portion of the recoil spring assembly. The strength of the design is that it attaches VERY tightly to the trunnion, but mandates a wire recoil guide. If you haven't had the joy of replacing the spring on there before, it does take some technique, or three hands to accomplish. You may have to obtain a front wire guide segment and a retainer if you have the telescoping tube type recoil spring assembly.

For the Ultimak Mx series gas tube rails, the scope mount position is low, but to keep it low you'll have to invest in low profile rings. I haven't seen those any cheaper than $50, a more typical figure is closer to $80. The position means that while low, it also gets HOT. If you want to mount anything here, buy a quality optic that can dissipate some heat or it will melt the electronics and cook the battery.

For a forward mounted optic that is as low as it is possible to go in order to co-witness all or most of the iron sight sight picture, the Ultimak gas tube rail is the pentultimate. The Midwest Industries rail goes on top of the stock gas tube and for that reason isn't as low. To compensate somewhat, Midwest makes all sort of "top rails" tailored to the specific optic (say, an Aimpoint T1) and the base allows the optic to sit lower than if it were just a generic picatinny rail that will tend to raise it a bit, not counting any rings for the optic.

The Midwest is a great rail and other than the top bit are the same except for length. If you want to go low and have quality optics that won't burn on the gas tube's intense heat, go Ultimak. For a low optic mount over the receiver, go TWS Dog Leg 2, which is probably the best choice for both scopes and red dot sights.

R

MrPlink
11-28-2011, 2:14 PM
Those poor AKs! :D

Richard Erichsen
11-28-2011, 2:28 PM
Those poor AKs! :D

Luddite! ;)

R

Darthbauer
11-28-2011, 2:31 PM
Thanks for the heads up.... What is the best way to put an optic other than those exoskeleton metal thing that attaches on the side... I'm looking exactly like yours ala AR but stable enough to hold optics?


http://www.krebscustom.com/PartsPages/KalashnikovParts.shtml

Scroll down to find what you are looking for. My buddy has their top rail and it's very solid.

Richard Erichsen
11-28-2011, 2:35 PM
Nicely done ARFAN




That Dog Leg Gen 2 looks pretty good...

I went with UltiMAK rails on my AKM and I have no regrets.

http://www.athenswater.com/images/H2OsAKM.JPG

I like it. From the image, let me guess at componentry:

1) Magpul adj. stock with AR15 stock adapter with the fake buffer tube?
2) Which pistol grip is that?
3) SEI muzzle brake?
4) Ultimak gas tube rail and Ultimak ACR2 handguard rails below them?
5) Krebs or Power Custom selector switch? I like it, too bad they don't make one these for Yugo.

R

Richard Erichsen
11-28-2011, 2:38 PM
http://www.krebscustom.com/PartsPages/KalashnikovParts.shtml

Scroll down to find what you are looking for. My buddy has their top rail and it's very solid.

Looks like the Beryl mount. TWS makes one like that too. Instead of mounting internally to the trunnion, they mount through the stock tang hole. A solid place to mount.

R

zfields
11-28-2011, 2:39 PM
For the Ultimak Mx series gas tube rails, the scope mount position is low, but to keep it low you'll have to invest in low profile rings. I haven't seen those any cheaper than $50, a more typical figure is closer to $80. The position means that while low, it also gets HOT. If you want to mount anything here, buy a quality optic that can dissipate some heat or it will melt the electronics and cook the battery.

For a forward mounted optic that is as low as it is possible to go in order to co-witness all or most of the iron sight sight picture, the Ultimak gas tube rail is the pentultimate. The Midwest Industries rail goes on top of the stock gas tube and for that reason isn't as low. To compensate somewhat, Midwest makes all sort of "top rails" tailored to the specific optic (say, an Aimpoint T1) and the base allows the optic to sit lower than if it were just a generic picatinny rail that will tend to raise it a bit, not counting any rings for the optic.

The Midwest is a great rail and other than the top bit are the same except for length. If you want to go low and have quality optics that won't burn on the gas tube's intense heat, go Ultimak. For a low optic mount over the receiver, go TWS Dog Leg 2, which is probably the best choice for both scopes and red dot sights.

R


This is why Im more interested in the MI rail opposed to the Ultimak, gives it a touch of space so its not direct transfer of heat between the gastube and the optic. Not to mention id prefer NOT to co-witness.

TDL is a nice lookin rail, Ive been seeing more and more people wishing that he would have stuck with the Gen 1 design though.

ZX-10R
11-28-2011, 6:18 PM
Great job. This weekend I am putting the TWS on a DRACO for a buddy. I am keeping mine stock until I try his out. If I like it, I will migrate my other AK Patterns to it. Well done OP...Shoot it up!

ZX-10R
11-28-2011, 6:20 PM
ARFAN,

Thanks for sharing. I like a lot of what you did here. I went a different route with my first M70 build that is just short of final finishing tasks. Have you thought about what you want to use for a finish?

Part of the reason my M70 build ended up being so "tactical" is the difficulty I had in finding all the parts I needed for an M70 build. I didn't have a full kit, just a few loose parts. The gas tube ended up being the Ultimak M9, so naturally while I was at it I ended up with the ACR2 handguard from the same vendor. Enough "cheese grater" attachments to take some skin off an exposed knee as I found out while working on it. Rail covers are a good idea when the rail segment is not in use.... ;)

I used the following bits and pieces:

* ACE skeleton stock with ACE Yugo stock adapter (Yugo trunnions are different than AKM)
* Tapco side optic rail - needed some filing to flatten
* FA Enterprises muzzle brake
* Red Star Arms FCG
* Ultimak ACR2-MC railed handguards (Yugo and milled)
* Ultimak M9 gas tube picatinny rail (Yugo specific)
* Venom Tactical integrated gas block/front sight milled out for the thicker M70 barrel
* Tech-Sights AK200Y single aperture windage/elevation adjustable rear peep, locks to the rear trunnion "T" cross section (very stable/repeatable after field strip)
* Solar Tactical grip strap
* Andy's Leather 3 point Ching Sling on Uncle Mike's 1.25" sling swivels
* Green Mountain chrome lined "1970" barrel (M70)

Last on the list for this rifle will be fitting the Cadiz Gunworks LRBHO catch and lever and applying a coat of black molyresin.

R

I believe you posted that on AKfiles...I liked it then and like it now. Very well done.

RustyMacHine
11-28-2011, 6:33 PM
Those poor AKs! :D

Wait 'til you see the AKs in the new Mission Impossible movie... I think they're using some Krebs in there.

EDIT-I don't think dressing up an AK isn't all that bad, as long as it won't look like it's from Starship Troopers.

What ever helps in making you an efficient/better shooter.



.

venturasurf
11-28-2011, 7:13 PM
I mean no offense but I don't understand all the AR fanboys' predisposition to turn an AKM into an AR lego toy. I never see AK guys ripping all the electronics, plastic and aluminum gadgets off of their ARs and installing wood furniture and pissing into the actions and beating them up like they do their AKs. AKs and ARs = Apples and Oranges.

It appears to me that what you've done is turned a functional AK into a front-heavy, short-stocked "black rifle" with a front protrusion hanging down in the way - and once the battery dies on that red-dot you'll have to tear off all the accessories you've mounted all over the front to use the iron sights when you're stuck in a post apocalyptic wasteland devoid of CR-2032 batteries.

I'm honestly not trying to be a jerk - I just don't understand this reasoning. Can someone please enlighten me?

nickyrr
11-28-2011, 8:12 PM
I mean no offense but I don't understand all the AR fanboys' predisposition to turn an AKM into an AR lego toy. I never see AK guys ripping all the electronics, plastic and aluminum gadgets off of their ARs and installing wood furniture and pissing into the actions and beating them up like they do their AKs. AKs and ARs = Apples and Oranges.

It appears to me that what you've done is turned a functional AK into a front-heavy, short-stocked "black rifle" with a front protrusion hanging down in the way - and once the battery dies on that red-dot you'll have to tear off all the accessories you've mounted all over the front to use the iron sights when you're stuck in a post apocalyptic wasteland devoid of CR-2032 batteries.

I'm honestly not trying to be a jerk - I just don't understand this reasoning. Can someone please enlighten me?

To me its a simple.. find what works best or appealing enough to make the mods. Just because its been done to an AR doesn't can't be done on an AK... Best of both worlds I guess... As far as apocalyptic scenario... I honestly don't think that ill be that much worried about a busted optics of low battery. I think there's a lot more to worry about in that type of scenario than a busted optics... Then again I don't worry much about shtf situation as much as some people. I collect guns and mod them to my liking regardless of what other people thinks afterall it is my rifle.

m03
11-28-2011, 10:01 PM
...

I'm honestly not trying to be a jerk - I just don't understand this reasoning. Can someone please enlighten me?

Yeah, it's his and he can do what he pleases with it :)

Personally, I'm a traditionalist. I like wood furniture and historical correctness, and the only rails that go on my AKs are the ones that the bolt carrier rides on, but that's not for everyone.

If you like quad rails, red dots, and fat funky grips, by all means hook up your AK with them. Just please retain the original parts that you took off so that it can be put back to stock config if you decide to sell it :D

ZX-10R
11-29-2011, 9:13 AM
I mean no offense but I don't understand all the AR fanboys' predisposition to turn an AKM into an AR lego toy. I never see AK guys ripping all the electronics, plastic and aluminum gadgets off of their ARs and installing wood furniture and pissing into the actions and beating them up like they do their AKs. AKs and ARs = Apples and Oranges.

It appears to me that what you've done is turned a functional AK into a front-heavy, short-stocked "black rifle" with a front protrusion hanging down in the way - and once the battery dies on that red-dot you'll have to tear off all the accessories you've mounted all over the front to use the iron sights when you're stuck in a post apocalyptic wasteland devoid of CR-2032 batteries.

I'm honestly not trying to be a jerk - I just don't understand this reasoning. Can someone please enlighten me?

Here's your answer...Because if you want to use your gun as effectively and efficiently as possible, you should maximize its capability.

You honestly think you can shoot your AK accurately with steel sights at 300yrds versus a guy with a scoped AK? Let me know when you want to put that to the test. Not trying to be jerk but wanting to see if you want to put your AK to test versus a modified one. You aren't to far from SLOSA about 2 hours. Night and day difference brother. One is for a time that has past...One is for a time where technology dominates the field (in every aspect).

Here are some Polish troops in the sandbox with rails, plastic, and folders...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Polish/dsc028568gl.jpg

1911pistola
11-29-2011, 9:44 AM
Dont use them, they are NOT stable enough to run optics on them. Also AK's dont have upper receivers, they have a receiver and a dust cover.

Now, a Texas Weapon Systems Dog Leg Gen 2 Is a different story.

http://texasweaponsystems.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/TWS/PIC_0038Rev.jpg


I like my TWS dust cover it has held zero very well even after opening and closing the dust cover.

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg76/1911pistola/PA220037.jpg http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg76/1911pistola/P9170031-2.jpg

zfields
11-29-2011, 9:48 AM
Here's your answer...Because if you want to use your gun as effectively and efficiently as possible, you should maximize its capability.

You honestly think you can shoot your AK accurately with steel sights at 300yrds versus a guy with a scoped AK? Let me know when you want to put that to the test. Not trying to be jerk but wanting to see if you want to put your AK to test versus a modified one. You aren't to far from SLOSA about 2 hours. Night and day difference brother. One is for a time that has past...One is for a time where technology dominates the field (in every aspect).

Here are some Polish troops in the sandbox with rails, plastic, and folders...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Polish/dsc028568gl.jpg


Neat picture, I wasnt aware that polish used any of the wood vert grip foreends.

Richard Erichsen
11-29-2011, 1:42 PM
It appears to me that what you've done is turned a functional AK into a front-heavy, short-stocked "black rifle" with a front protrusion hanging down in the way - and once the battery dies on that red-dot you'll have to tear off all the accessories you've mounted all over the front to use the iron sights when you're stuck in a post apocalyptic wasteland devoid of CR-2032 batteries. <snip>
I'm honestly not trying to be a jerk - I just don't understand this reasoning. Can someone please enlighten me?


There are reasons to modernize a design of a weapon that dates to the 1950s. That is certainly the perspective of professional armies and paramilitary units that favor the AK for cost or historical reasons. Developing countries are in a different position and use whatever is available. There are places still using AKs in their original forms, but given sufficient budget and other motivational factors how many would stay that way?

As for the specific choices the OP made, they are his own preference. Vertical front grips aren't for everyone, I prefer my hand hold to be higher but that's based on tastes and shooting style. Vertical handgrips are themselves not deemed "in the way" by many of the worlds professional armies. Take for example the rebuilt HK G3s and AK74s several countries still field as their primary small arm onto which rails, new folding or collapsing buttstocks and optics are fitted. Those G3s you see among NATO troops in Afghanistan overwhelmingly date to the mid 1960s to early 1980s, while the AK74s are dated to between mid 1970 and the late 1980s. Rather than replace them, they upgraded the arsenal with features that were found to increase flexibility and in some cases were deliberately designed to reduce weight, or be weight neutral minus the optics.

The Norwegian AG-3F2 (a G3 variant) has the key features found on the OPs build, including the vertical handgrip, EOtech optic and rails galore. The Polish Beryl is another rifle similarly equipped and is basically an AK74. The Russian AK200 series goes still further. If an AK is somehow "ruined" by such upgrades, the new Izhmash AK200 series seems to suggest differently. Militaries are asking for the upgrades incorporated in this, the 5th generation AK. It was no accident AKs are taking this form and I don't believe appearance was a serious consideration.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/16/izhmash-prototype-of-the-updated-ak-big-news/

I myself am not on the Red Dot bandwagon per se (though battery life is now measured in years on some models, not hours), though I value an optic for more distant shots, with a mount featuring a lever to be quickly removed if need be. I have good ironsights on all of my AKs, but if chose to mount an unmagnified optic its going to be a passive bit of glass such as this: http://www.leupold.com/tactical/products/scopes/ The Prismatic optic is short, fairly light, tough as nails and gives the benefits of the red dot (minus a bit of parallax compensation) with not a battery in sight. Alternatively a 1-4x variable scope similar to what I'd mount on my FAL are a good compliment, particularly if your eyes aren't quite what they used to be past 100 yards.

In terms of balance - YMMV. A folding stock AK is often terribly front heavy compared to a fixed stock AK. A fixed aluminum or steel skeleton stock or AR15 type stock with an aluminum buffer tube adapter is going to have a much better balance than the typical folding stock AK and as good or better than the fixed stock polymer or wood stocked AKs. Just making a fixed stock a bit longer (NATO or intermediate vs. Warsaw length) will shift weight rearward as a secondary benefit. I suppose there are those that favor the shorter Warsaw length stocks too, but I'm not among them.

Many folding stock AKs have folding mechanisms that actually interfere with operation of the weapon while in a folded condition (blocking selector switch, trigger, etc.). Ergonomics were clearly not well thought out on some of those models and balance was the least of the problems some of these models have. AKs will tend to be fairly "front heavy" compared to an AR15 due to the big bolt carrier/gas piston/gas block sitting over the barrel. The point of balance on all of my rifles is about one to two fingers in front of the magazine well. I've handled specimens built to their original trim that didn't balance that well. I think you'd find the OPs rifle would have a similar balance point near the magazine well and unlikely to be seriously "front heavy" when compared to another AK of similar barrel length and configuration.

[/QUOTE]

Richard Erichsen
11-29-2011, 1:52 PM
Yeah, it's his and he can do what he pleases with it :)

Personally, I'm a traditionalist. I like wood furniture and historical correctness, and the only rails that go on my AKs are the ones that the bolt carrier rides on, but that's not for everyone.

If you like quad rails, red dots, and fat funky grips, by all means hook up your AK with them. Just please retain the original parts that you took off so that it can be put back to stock config if you decide to sell it :D

In my case, you can have the box of loose parts that I started with, I never had a complete AK kit to begin with. ;)

R

Richard Erichsen
11-29-2011, 1:55 PM
Neat picture, I wasnt aware that polish used any of the wood vert grip foreends.

Someone should tell those Polish gentleman that their rifles are crap (along with the caliber) and that they should promptly obtain "proper" AKs from Russia with the original wood furniture circa 1959. ;)

R

techshot
11-29-2011, 1:57 PM
I mean no offense but I don't understand all the AR fanboys' predisposition to turn an AKM into an AR lego toy. I never see AK guys ripping all the electronics, plastic and aluminum gadgets off of their ARs and installing wood furniture and pissing into the actions and beating them up like they do their AKs. AKs and ARs = Apples and Oranges.

It appears to me that what you've done is turned a functional AK into a front-heavy, short-stocked "black rifle" with a front protrusion hanging down in the way - and once the battery dies on that red-dot you'll have to tear off all the accessories you've mounted all over the front to use the iron sights when you're stuck in a post apocalyptic wasteland devoid of CR-2032 batteries.

I'm honestly not trying to be a jerk - I just don't understand this reasoning. Can someone please enlighten me?

The same reason you have a red dot sight on your sks... cause everyones mall ninja likes to come out once in awhile.

loosewreck
11-29-2011, 2:00 PM
No money to go for long weekend vacation. I got bored and stayed home to finish tactical dress up for my AK47.
it is a USA armory Bulgaria AK; Mako recoild stock; UTG quadrail, RMR reddot with ADM quick release mount; smith interprise muzzle brake. :D
At least I can enjoy my long weekend with this.:p

I usually prefer the look of wood on AKs too, but I like like it. Maybe some different rail covers, like Scar or Magpul XT panels would clean it up the look a bit.

RustyMacHine
11-29-2011, 2:11 PM
Someone should tell those Polish gentleman that their rifles are crap (along with the caliber) and that they should promptly obtain "proper" AKs from Russia with the original wood furniture circa 1959. ;)

R

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic.


.

Richard Erichsen
11-29-2011, 2:53 PM
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic.


.

I was dripping in sarcasm. The two hints were the suggestion the Polish would want anything from their former (forced) rulers and the second was the winky smiley face.

Not long after the fall of the USSR, Poland became independent, joined NATO and changed over it's current arsenal to NATO/STANAG standards with plenty of foreign aid to accelerate the program in a policy of "encapsulation" that continues to this day, with the Republic of Georgia one of the most current examples.

The Soviet expansion during WWII and during the Cold War years when it was an unwilling vassal of Moscow fueled a lot the tensions that remain between these nations. Poland is also the location chosen for the "anti-nuclear missile defense" technology that the Russians were very unhappy about, recently cancelled to avoid further contention in the face of more localized threats than ICBMs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Poland

The Beryl is a thoroughly modern AK, but under the accessories and Galil style folding stock, it's still an AK in every way that matters.

R

Arnelcheeze
11-29-2011, 4:30 PM
Dont use them, they are NOT stable enough to run optics on them. Also AK's dont have upper receivers, they have a receiver and a dust cover.

Now, a Texas Weapon Systems Dog Leg Gen 2 Is a different story.

http://texasweaponsystems.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/TWS/PIC_0038Rev.jpg
I agree, the Krebs is also comparable to that one, and the ultimak is a vast improvement on the UTG rail, you could actually put optics on the the ultimak.

ZX-10R
11-29-2011, 4:35 PM
Neat picture, I wasnt aware that polish used any of the wood vert grip foreends.

Yeah I saw that in a few other pics from this group of shots. I think this guy pulled it from one of the many AK rifles floating around there. Good catch.

RustyMacHine
11-29-2011, 6:58 PM
I was dripping in sarcasm. The two hints were the suggestion the Polish would want anything from their former (forced) rulers and the second was the winky smiley face.


Gotcha ;)

The Beryl is a thoroughly modern AK, but under the accessories and Galil style folding stock, it's still an AK in every way that matters.

R

Have you seen munkeeboi's ONYKS... Just amzaing!


.

venturasurf
11-30-2011, 6:30 PM
If I have an AK with iron sights can I outshoot someone who has an AK with a red dot at 300 yards? Probably. That's just because I primarily use iron sights - and also because red dots suck out to that distance, and also because holding zero at that distance with a gas tube mounted red dot is very difficult.

Can I outshoot a red dot sighted AR with an AK with iron sights? Most likely not at all.

Also - I would understand an AK with a red dot that co-witnesses the iron sights.

I don't understand making the rifle front heavy.

I don't understand the "it's my rifle I can do what I want" responses. I realize you can do what you want - I just would like to understand the "why".

Oh and techshot - my SKS has a red dot on it because the Bubba I bought it from ripped off both the front and rear sights before bastardizing it with a monte carlo stock. It's my only rifle with a red dot - cause it needs some sort of sight. It may have been influenced by my inner mall ninja too ;)

venturasurf
11-30-2011, 6:54 PM
There are reasons to modernize a design of a weapon that dates to the 1950s. That is certainly the perspective of professional armies and paramilitary units that favor the AK for cost or historical reasons. Developing countries are in a different position and use whatever is available. There are places still using AKs in their original forms, but given sufficient budget and other motivational factors how many would stay that way?

As for the specific choices the OP made, they are his own preference. Vertical front grips aren't for everyone, I prefer my hand hold to be higher but that's based on tastes and shooting style. Vertical handgrips are themselves not deemed "in the way" by many of the worlds professional armies. Take for example the rebuilt HK G3s and AK74s several countries still field as their primary small arm onto which rails, new folding or collapsing buttstocks and optics are fitted. Those G3s you see among NATO troops in Afghanistan overwhelmingly date to the mid 1960s to early 1980s, while the AK74s are dated to between mid 1970 and the late 1980s. Rather than replace them, they upgraded the arsenal with features that were found to increase flexibility and in some cases were deliberately designed to reduce weight, or be weight neutral minus the optics.

The Norwegian AG-3F2 (a G3 variant) has the key features found on the OPs build, including the vertical handgrip, EOtech optic and rails galore. The Polish Beryl is another rifle similarly equipped and is basically an AK74. The Russian AK200 series goes still further. If an AK is somehow "ruined" by such upgrades, the new Izhmash AK200 series seems to suggest differently. Militaries are asking for the upgrades incorporated in this, the 5th generation AK. It was no accident AKs are taking this form and I don't believe appearance was a serious consideration.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/16/izhmash-prototype-of-the-updated-ak-big-news/

I myself am not on the Red Dot bandwagon per se (though battery life is now measured in years on some models, not hours), though I value an optic for more distant shots, with a mount featuring a lever to be quickly removed if need be. I have good ironsights on all of my AKs, but if chose to mount an unmagnified optic its going to be a passive bit of glass such as this: http://www.leupold.com/tactical/products/scopes/ The Prismatic optic is short, fairly light, tough as nails and gives the benefits of the red dot (minus a bit of parallax compensation) with not a battery in sight. Alternatively a 1-4x variable scope similar to what I'd mount on my FAL are a good compliment, particularly if your eyes aren't quite what they used to be past 100 yards.

In terms of balance - YMMV. A folding stock AK is often terribly front heavy compared to a fixed stock AK. A fixed aluminum or steel skeleton stock or AR15 type stock with an aluminum buffer tube adapter is going to have a much better balance than the typical folding stock AK and as good or better than the fixed stock polymer or wood stocked AKs. Just making a fixed stock a bit longer (NATO or intermediate vs. Warsaw length) will shift weight rearward as a secondary benefit. I suppose there are those that favor the shorter Warsaw length stocks too, but I'm not among them.

Many folding stock AKs have folding mechanisms that actually interfere with operation of the weapon while in a folded condition (blocking selector switch, trigger, etc.). Ergonomics were clearly not well thought out on some of those models and balance was the least of the problems some of these models have. AKs will tend to be fairly "front heavy" compared to an AR15 due to the big bolt carrier/gas piston/gas block sitting over the barrel. The point of balance on all of my rifles is about one to two fingers in front of the magazine well. I've handled specimens built to their original trim that didn't balance that well. I think you'd find the OPs rifle would have a similar balance point near the magazine well and unlikely to be seriously "front heavy" when compared to another AK of similar barrel length and configuration.

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Hot damn that makes sense to me.

Overall though I just think ARs are more suited to accessories and modifications. Everyone just bolts things all over the AK and it never looks like it's supposed to go with the rifle... ergonomically or aesthetically - aftermarket optics for the AK are a disaster compared to whats available and useful on an AR unless you have a side-mount proper AK optic and even then those just look "in-the-way" and awkward.

I agree about the folders... charging the bolt on a folded AKMS is weird since the charging handle barely protrudes from the folded stock and working the safety lever is silly.

zfields
11-30-2011, 7:04 PM
I agree, the Krebs is also comparable to that one, and the ultimak is a vast improvement on the UTG rail, you could actually put optics on the the ultimak.

The krebs is a copy of the beryl mount isnt it? Needs a screw to take off, not 100% zero retention IIRC

ZX-10R
11-30-2011, 7:15 PM
If I have an AK with iron sights can I outshoot someone who has an AK with a red dot at 300 yards? Probably. That's just because I primarily use iron sights - and also because red dots suck out to that distance, and also because holding zero at that distance with a gas tube mounted red dot is very difficult.

Can I outshoot a red dot sighted AR with an AK with iron sights? Most likely not at all.

Also - I would understand an AK with a red dot that co-witnesses the iron sights.

I don't understand making the rifle front heavy.

I don't understand the "it's my rifle I can do what I want" responses. I realize you can do what you want - I just would like to understand the "why".

Oh and techshot - my SKS has a red dot on it because the Bubba I bought it from ripped off both the front and rear sights before bastardizing it with a monte carlo stock. It's my only rifle with a red dot - cause it needs some sort of sight. It may have been influenced by my inner mall ninja too ;)

I just would like to understand the "why".

Because they can. The "why" then becomes a problem for you to "cope" with.

Front heavy? I am sure you are not being serious? if you think an AK is heavy with front sights...Try taking a fully loaded PSL with an 8x POSP and tripod through the woods of OR for a few miles. Weight with whatever you pick as your weapon of choice is exactly that, you choice. My friends carried ARs. We were all equally tired. Actually my WASR has a side rail...Not heavy at all but everything I have is heavy...My golf bag is heavy, my sportbike is heavy (ZX-10R), my dirtbike is heavy, my gun bags are heavy, my truck is heavy. I guess I don't see your point either. Heck if armies are deployed with optics on an AK patterns and other rifles I am sure they know a lot more than you and even myself in regards to the benefit of an scoped rifle and one without.

I'll take their word for it. Improve your chances for a first round hit. ;)

Richard Erichsen
12-01-2011, 8:37 PM
Hot damn that makes sense to me.

Overall though I just think ARs are more suited to accessories and modifications. Everyone just bolts things all over the AK and it never looks like it's supposed to go with the rifle... ergonomically or aesthetically - aftermarket optics for the AK are a disaster compared to whats available and useful on an AR unless you have a side-mount proper AK optic and even then those just look "in-the-way" and awkward.


Form follows function on utilitarian military equipment. All military rifles, AK, FAL, G3, SKS, MAS, Steyr Aug, FAMAS and yes, the AR15 based weapons included, are butt ugly compared to the sleek lines of a fine bolt action sporting rifle with a AAA solid walnut stock, jeweled bolt, and fine bluing. Many of the finer sporting arms were designed to be attractive displays of heirloom quality. By comparison a typical military rifle is about as attractive as a tope colored metal file cabinet in a mahogany paneled study.

The AK200 has a top picatinny rail over the gas tube and another over the receiver. That is as modular a design for optics, illumination and other accessories as you'll find on the weapons from HK, FN or any of the new flat top AR15 based weapons. The receiver top on the AK200 is hinged and in many respects similar to the TWS Dog Leg 2 in it's ability to be opened and closed with consistent hold of zero for any optic mounted. With the right low-profile rings, the optic can cowitness with the improved iron sights.

The side mount optic rail of the second and third generation AK is a throwback to when the only top cover available was a stamped bit of sheet metal with no solid mounting point to the trunnion if you were daft enough to weld a an optic mount to it. For the side mount optic rail, the Kalinka BP-02 sets the standard for points of adjustment. A low quality/low cost side rail mount might create the impression that ALL side mount optics are awful, but it's not so. As with anything, you tend to get what you pay for. Originally side mounts didn't sit over the bore of the weapon, but a bit to the left. The new, higher quality types allow adjustment over the bore, low above the cover.

I agree about the folders... charging the bolt on a folded AKMS is weird since the charging handle barely protrudes from the folded stock and working the safety lever is silly.

There are better folding mechanisms available. The design for the Galil is among the best and is heavier built than most Russian and Eastern European models. A lot of the folding mechanisms found on AKs are flimsy, difficult to manipulate and uncomfortable by comparison to more modern designs. If you are really worried about balance, you can fit lead weights within the buttpad, or drill a hole in the tube type stocks and pour in molten casting lead and use a set screw to secure the plug of lead so it doesn't slide around inside the tube.

I find competitive truck racing much stranger than trying to find ways to improve on some of the weaker points of the traditional AK design that was hardly "modern" when it was introduced. Izhmash didn't stop development of the AK in 1959, there are 5 generations of distinct weapons, each progressively modernized over the former. Get used to seeing rails on AK100 and AK200 series weapons, it will no doubt be a feature of the next, sixth generation AK. Modularization features are already commonplace on AK variants from several European countries, so this phenomenon is not confined to the original, "genuine" AK.

R