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View Full Version : $5,000 to spend on a Precision Rifle and Optic, what do you buy?


CrossedRifles
11-26-2011, 10:49 PM
I don't have the money yet :p but I only like to buy one of each kind of firearm, so I'll end up putting a lot of money into it. I'm a quality over quantity guy. :rolleyes: I'm looking for suggestions for precision rifles and optics.

In .308 preferably. No way I'm shooting that expensive .338 Lapua. :p

Which rifle? Bolt action? Semi-automatic?

What optic? NightForce?

ArmyMedicMoose
11-26-2011, 10:50 PM
build a custom rifle

WDE91
11-26-2011, 10:51 PM
.260 remington

tgriffin
11-26-2011, 10:52 PM
Sako TRG-22 in .308
Any top shelf glass is fine. NF, USO, Luepold (mine, Mark 4)

Love the rifle, ungodly accurate.

LovingTheYear1911
11-26-2011, 11:47 PM
Custom rifle is what I would do with that budget. A nice Shilen barrel with a nice stock and some glass would still be less than $5,000.

BRANDON7766
11-26-2011, 11:51 PM
I am facing a similar dilemma. I spent anfew hours yesterday with the nor cal precision rifle club people. Awesome people I might add. I can tell you that after picking the brain of people who actually SHOOT 1000 yards that you want to have a nice rifle. I thought spend 2-3x what you paid for the rifle but that is all relative to what you paid for the rifle. You want a vortex pat or better. Obviously, the more you can spend the better. And btw, you want a custom rifle. I think that 29/30 people, once again, who actually do this, had a custom riflle. I wuldsay that 6 or 7 out of 10 had A5 stocks...2 or 3 out of 10 had AICS stocks and 1/10 hadnsomething random. 9/10 had no muzzle break. I read this forum regularly and can say that the equipment surprised me. 100 percent wer bolt action. I figuredmide see one or 2 semi autos....maybe a gap 10. This might be because they shoot inside a bubble and hence develop their own inter club trends and such but my guessnis that they know what they are doing.

5000 dollars.....custom gun by Spartan in concord 3k and 2k for a night force, used premeir from mike at CSTactical or a vortex razor, I got the chance to look through one at long range and it's very nice...mike can help you with all 3 of these. Buy ammo and training as you earn and eventually reloading equip with the brass you have used.

Oh and .260 IMO. They all said 308 to learn on...bit if I'm eventually going to get a 260 then I might as well do it now. If you are going to learn the wing you should learn in the cartridgenyou actually plan on competing with IMO.

My 2cp

Dhena81
11-26-2011, 11:53 PM
GAP Crusader $3725 & Premier Heritage 3-15x50mm Hunter Illuminated $1850

Over your budget at $5575

johnthomas
11-27-2011, 12:18 AM
http://www.christensenarms.com/ca-15-predator
http://www.krugeroptical.com/ko-tactical-scopes-next.asp

Read the specs on the rifle and optics, featured on the book of ar-15 I just got.
https://store.intermediaoutdoors.com/products.php?product=Guns-and-Ammo-book-of-the-AR%252d15-2011

brian01tj
11-27-2011, 12:21 AM
I am facing a similar dilemma. I spent anfew hours yesterday with the nor cal precision rifle club people. Awesome people I might add. I can tell you that after picking the brain of people who actually SHOOT 1000 yards that you want to have a nice rifle. I thought spend 2-3x what you paid for the rifle but that is all relative to what you paid for the rifle. You want a vortex pat or better. Obviously, the more you can spend the better. And btw, you want a custom rifle. I think that 29/30 people, once again, who actually do this, had a custom riflle. I wuldsay that 6 or 7 out of 10 had A5 stocks...2 or 3 out of 10 had AICS stocks and 1/10 hadnsomething random. 9/10 had no muzzle break. I read this forum regularly and can say that the equipment surprised me. 100 percent wer bolt action. I figuredmide see one or 2 semi autos....maybe a gap 10. This might be because they shoot inside a bubble and hence develop their own inter club trends and such but my guessnis that they know what they are doing.

5000 dollars.....custom gun by Spartan in concord 3k and 2k for a night force, used premeir from mike at CSTactical or a vortex razor, I got the chance to look through one at long range and it's very nice...mike can help you with all 3 of these. Buy ammo and training as you earn and eventually reloading equip with the brass you have used.

Oh and .260 IMO. They all said 308 to learn on...bit if I'm eventually going to get a 260 then I might as well do it now. If you are going to learn the wing you should learn in the cartridgenyou actually plan on competing with IMO.

My 2cp

This advice is pretty good. The main reason you wont find a semi being consistently used as a tactical precision competetive rifle is because of reliability. They always go down at some point and you dont want that in our sport. Id say an off the shelf Rem 700 in .308 and fix that up with a Timney Trigger, Bolt handle, new stock of your choice and have it bedded, have a smith install a muzzle brake and good base and rings. That gun will be a shooter out of the box and a perfect platform for learning our sport. After you've got a couple thousand rounds down the barrel you can send the action off to Marc at Spartan Rifles who I HIGHLY recommend to have him true the action and instal a new barrel of your choice. With a Nightforce scope with matching knobs/reticle you will have a great gun and money left over for tons of ammo. If youre not into reloading yet Id use the left over money to get started in it. If you already are then use it to buy quality components!!

Ubermcoupe
11-27-2011, 12:50 AM
A 700 with a really nice optic (& I mean really nice) would suit me fine for 5000.

acaligunner
11-27-2011, 12:57 AM
I don't have the money yet :p but I only like to buy one of each kind of firearm, so I'll end up putting a lot of money into it. I'm a quality over quantity guy. :rolleyes: I'm looking for suggestions for precision rifles and optics.

In .308 preferably. No way I'm shooting that expensive .338 Lapua. :p

Which rifle? Bolt action? Semi-automatic?

What optic? NightForce?


GA Precision

Accuracy International ( may be around 5-6k )

Surgeon Rifles

SAKO TRG

Those are for Bolt Actions


Semi Auto's

LaRue OBR

Noveske N6

GAP AR-10


Optic

NightForce

They say Bolt Actions are more 'easier' to shoot well, and may offer a little more consistency, but todays Semi Auto AR-10's are reaching about the same level performance. NightForce should serve you well.

acaligunner

LOLfornia
11-27-2011, 1:00 AM
.260 remington

I attended the long range shooting seminar at the Fowler Gun Room and the instructor mentioned that the .260 achieves the same distance/accuracy (or something lol ) as the .338Lapua at a much much more palatable price :D

brian01tj
11-27-2011, 1:08 AM
I attended the long range shooting seminar at the Fowler Gun Room and the instructor mentioned that the .260 achieves the same distance/accuracy (or something lol ) as the .338Lapua at a much much more palatable price :D

Be prepared to be visiting the gunsmith every 1500 rounds for a new barrel job. Its a GREAT round but is better used in moderation unlike a 308

LOLfornia
11-27-2011, 1:18 AM
Be prepared to be visiting the gunsmith every 1500 rounds for a new barrel job. Its a GREAT round but is better used in moderation unlike a 308

Definitely something to think about!

acaligunner
11-27-2011, 1:19 AM
I attended the long range shooting seminar at the Fowler Gun Room and the instructor mentioned that the .260 achieves the same distance/accuracy (or something lol ) as the .338Lapua at a much much more palatable price :D

I heard that the 260 has the same BC as a 190 gr round fired from a 300 win mag.

Maybe that is what he was talking about. The 260 is a good overall pick.

acg

Cali-Shooter
11-27-2011, 1:20 AM
If I had that kind of dough, I'd go for an M1A Socom, with an Aimpoint + Magnifier. Rest goes into ammo and mags (but esp. ammo).

I know, it's not as precision as a bolt-action with a real scope. But I'd personally prefer more of a DMR style rifle, not a straight-up sniper style.

brian01tj
11-27-2011, 1:34 AM
I'm looking for suggestions for precision rifles and optics.


If I had that kind of dough, I'd go for an M1A Socom, with an Aimpoint + Magnifier. Rest goes into ammo and mags (but esp. ammo).

I know, it's not as precision as a bolt-action with a real scope. But I'd personally prefer more of a DMR style rifle, not a straight-up sniper style.


This doesnt even come close to his intended use. M1A Socom is far from a precision rifle

Cali-Shooter
11-27-2011, 1:47 AM
^ ^ ^ Ignore what I posted, just my preference.

jimmykan
11-27-2011, 1:49 AM
I would start with a custom tube gun action, from Pierce or Borden.

I would add a cut rifled 5R-style barrel from Krieger or Bartlein, and chamber it in 6.5x45 Lapua or 6.5-284 Norma.

Put it all in an Eliseo RTS tube chassis/stock.

Top it off with a Vortex Viper PST scope.

Spend the rest of the money on ammunition: bullets, brass, powder, primers, dies.

Uriah02
11-27-2011, 3:07 AM
A 700 with a really nice optic (& I mean really nice) would suit me fine for 5000.

Even with glass that costs 2x the rifle he's still way under budget.
To answer the OP. With that budget you can go custom bolt or precision semi. I am more inclined towards the semi so I'd go with a REPR, P308, LMT.308, or any of the other high end AR makers. I've seen a number of reviews showing sub-MOA for the high end AR-style rifle with increasing frequency. Since my bias is toward semi and the only uber custom bolt I could think of is a Bravo 51 (4-5K without optic), I don't have any suggestions for a bolt option.

CK_32
11-27-2011, 3:08 AM
Bolt action definantly check out GA precision and get a night force premier or ziess or us optics.

semi not sure I'm into the battle CQC rifle type not precision but I think a GOOD semi would cost you around $5k not or close not leaving much for high end optics.

But for semi I know knights and LWRC make some good ARs.

atomboy
11-27-2011, 4:49 AM
What level of accuracy are you seeking?
Have you considered fully custom build rifle ?
Are you dead set on .308?
For $5K you should have one build to meet your exact requirements.

Ubermcoupe
11-27-2011, 5:23 AM
Even with glass that costs 2x the rifle he's still way under budget.

I'm not sure what kind of glass yur looking at but I was thinking of something north of 3grand....+ the rifle and I wouldn't consider that well under budget, i also said that would suit me just fine but whatever... :shrug:

Zippiot
11-27-2011, 5:26 AM
http://www.accuracyinternational.com/products.php

anything from there

A custom action for a 700+AICS+custom trigger+5R barrel then add any good scope

Donk310
11-27-2011, 5:52 AM
$5000? You buy damn near anything you want!!

hossb7
11-27-2011, 8:01 AM
how about spending $2500 on the rifle and optics, then spending the rest on ammo and a class or two

Hunter4life1990
11-27-2011, 8:17 AM
desert tactical srs comes to mind

glockwise2000
11-27-2011, 8:35 AM
desert tactical srs comes to mind

^^^ you beat me to it.

DTs are great.

Mute
11-27-2011, 8:36 AM
A custom rifle, depending on what you build it up with will cost you $2800+. If you go all out, you're looking at something north of $3500 which means you're going to have about $1500 - 2200 for a scope. On the lower end of that balance you'll probably want a Vortex or the new SS FFP scope if you want FFP reticles and probably a Nightforce if you don't mind SFP. Start going up the spectrum and you're looking at maybe a USO, Nightforce F1 or Premier. To get a S&B or Hensoldt, you're not going to lay out less than $2500 unless you can find a used one for a great deal.

Some factory guns are suitable but they're usually up there in price (not much cheaper than a custom rifle if any). The only ones I'd consider are these:

Accuracy International - Any of their rifles AW, AX, AE all good to go
Sako - TRG
Desert Tactical - SRS

For your intended purposes, I'd stick with a bolt gun. Get a semi only after you get a bolt gun.

foxtrotuniformlima
11-27-2011, 8:41 AM
Some good advice. as far as cartridge, the 6.5 Creedmoor is quite popular. It is a 260 Rem variant and from what has been reported on sites like Snipershide, 3-4000 rounds is the barrel life.

The only stuff I've seen burn barrels in 1,000 - 1,500 rounds is the 6mm stuff ( 243 win ) @ crazy high velocities. They are extremely accurate but when it goes, it goes quick.

I'd suggest getting a 308 , shoot a case or 2 of ammo learning position, trigger control, etc then send it to a smith for a new tube in a 6.5mm cartridge.

Iloveguns
11-27-2011, 9:59 AM
All I can say is why go off what other people like? Get out to a club or a class and see what you like. Why spend 5k on something you have no idea about what you want, just because some couch ninja said to buy it! I would suggest going to a beginners clinic or a match and check out some other peoples rigs and see what feels good to you. That way you can see what the differences are in the stocks, Scopes, and what have you. Not telling you to go with what I have but here is the break down:

LH Rem 700 Trued Action
Bartlien barrel chambered in 308 (21" with 11.25 twist)
Manners T4-A
Timney trigger
R&D Brake and DBM
Vortex Viper PST 4-16

Cost was around $2100

LH Stiller Tac-30AW Action
Bartlien barrel chambered in 243 (26" and 7.8 twist)
Manners T4-A
Timney Trigger
R&D Brake and DBM
Schmidt & Bender PMII 5-25 with H2CMR Reticle

Cost right around $5k

Ziggy91
11-27-2011, 10:15 AM
Either this:

JP LRP-07
http://jprifles.com/1.2.5_LRP07.php

That:
Savage 110 BA
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/110BA

Or any of these:
Les Bauer .308 Match
http://www.lesbaer.com/AR308.html


As far as optics...
Any Leupolds or Trijicons with variable zoom from 5-20ish.

The rest will have to buy ammo.... as much as possible :D

rkt88edmo
11-27-2011, 10:18 AM
Appleseed, hookers, and blow.

Can you outshoot a $1,500 rig?

vintagearms
11-27-2011, 10:29 AM
Remington 700 action in .308. After you have shot out that barrel, go for the .260 Shillen barrel and mate it with either Premier, SB or NF scope. Stocks? McMillian or maybe Remington chassis or even the AICS. Have heard the AICS is great for benchrest but not so good offhand.

cfusionpm
11-27-2011, 10:32 AM
With much less budget (about 2k) I'm getting myself a Remington 700 and Leupold mark 4. Just waiting on that xmas bonus money!

SmokingSam
11-27-2011, 10:34 AM
Just a suggestion: JD lower and upper, Krieger barrel, dual stage NM trigger group, stock of your choice, muzzle brake, a couple of mags, NF $2000 scope, spotting scope (if u don't have one) and stand, ammo, ammo, ammo.

glockman19
11-27-2011, 10:35 AM
A Barrett or Remington 700

SmokingSam
11-27-2011, 10:36 AM
Where is the best price for Leupold MK4 scope? I see them on eBay for around $1200 or so...I am looking for a scope for my AR-10 in 308, and it is between NF or MK4.

Moving Chicane
11-27-2011, 10:56 AM
Q from a very interested n00b: Is there a difference (if so, what?) between a "long distance precision rifle" and what others are calling a "sniper rifle"? Both seem to me to be built for long-distance precision shooting.....or are there some nuances I'm not getting (like sniper rifles are usually .50cal and these we're talking about are .308/.260/etc.)?

brian01tj
11-27-2011, 10:58 AM
A Barrett or Remington 700

???

I just dont understand the logic

brian01tj
11-27-2011, 11:02 AM
Q from a very interested n00b: Is there a difference (if so, what?) between a "long distance precision rifle" and what others are calling a "sniper rifle"? Both seem to me to be built for long-distance precision shooting.....or are there some nuances I'm not getting (like sniper rifles are usually .50cal and these we're talking about are .308/.260/etc.)?

A "Sniper Rifle" is a term used by the couch shooters roaming around this forum who have extensive internet knowledge with precision rifles. Nobody in the tactical precision rifle sport use the term "sniper rifle" when describing their weapon.

brian01tj
11-27-2011, 11:04 AM
Where is the best price for Leupold MK4 scope? I see them on eBay for around $1200 or so...I am looking for a scope for my AR-10 in 308, and it is between NF or MK4.

Why dont you start a thread in the optics forum and see what they say.

CrossedRifles
11-27-2011, 11:25 AM
Thanks for all the suggestions. I already have a DMR so that's why I'm looking to get into precision shooting next.

Where is the best price for Leupold MK4 scope? I see them on eBay for around $1200 or so...I am looking for a scope for my AR-10 in 308, and it is between NF or MK4.

IMHO Go for the NightForce. Leupold MK4's have horrible resell value if you decide otherwise. Also NightForce optics have better illumination, and overall build quality. I have compared them.

choprzrul
11-27-2011, 11:41 AM
Savage Model 12 Long Range Precision in 6.5 Creedmoor:

124246

Zeiss 6.5x20:

http://www.zeiss.com/C12568CF00206298/GraphikTitelIntern/rs_conquest_6.5-20x50_sm/$File/rs_conquest_6.5-20x50_sm.jpg

Plenty of $$ left over for bullets, powder, primers, brass, dies, etc, etc.......

Todays off the shelf is better than top shelf custom from 20 years ago. We have came a long ways.

.

CK_32
11-27-2011, 12:09 PM
A "Sniper Rifle" is a term used by the couch shooters roaming around this forum who have extensive internet knowledge with precision rifles. Nobody in the tactical precision rifle sport use the term "sniper rifle" when describing their weapon.

I call mine a sniper rifle all the time :ninja:

Only because when I tell my friends I have a precision rifle they always give me this look like a wha.... :confused:

brian01tj
11-27-2011, 12:15 PM
I call mine a sniper rifle all the time :ninja:

Exactly the point of my last post...

A "Sniper Rifle" is a term used by the couch shooters roaming around this forum who have extensive internet knowledge with precision rifles. Nobody in the tactical precision rifle sport use the term "sniper rifle" when describing their weapon.

toby
11-27-2011, 12:16 PM
You must have something in mind? to come up with the $5000 budget.....

acaligunner
11-27-2011, 12:25 PM
All I can say is why go off what other people like? Get out to a club or a class and see what you like. Why spend 5k on something you have no idea about what you want, just because some couch ninja said to buy it! I would suggest going to a beginners clinic or a match and check out some other peoples rigs and see what feels good to you. That way you can see what the differences are in the stocks, Scopes, and what have you. Not telling you to go with what I have but here is the break down:

LH Rem 700 Trued Action
Bartlien barrel chambered in 308 (21" with 11.25 twist)
Manners T4-A
Timney trigger
R&D Brake and DBM
Vortex Viper PST 4-16

Cost was around $2100

LH Stiller Tac-30AW Action
Bartlien barrel chambered in 243 (26" and 7.8 twist)
Manners T4-A
Timney Trigger
R&D Brake and DBM
Schmidt & Bender PMII 5-25 with H2CMR Reticle

Cost right around $5k

Would it not be better for the op to buy a custom made rifle, done by one of the better rifle makers in the bolt action field, then send the rifle out and have it put together by different mfgs?

GA Precision is a proven custom rifle maker that builds what they say. The basic 'base' rifle is $2,800. The Rock is $3,200, and the Gladius is $3,800. If the op wants a semi auto the GAP AR-10 is $2,600.

Theses sticks are proven designs, that are built to perform, and they come in different calibers if the customer wants. Plus they are built IN HOUSE.

All the shooter needs to do is take a class, by the equipment to support his rifle, reload, and then learn his system so he can get the most out of his rifle/round/scope.

acaligunner

HKROB
11-27-2011, 1:50 PM
Taken from CAPRC Randall covers this topic pretty well.

http://www.caprc.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=35

Don29palms
11-27-2011, 2:14 PM
http://www.rsecustomguns.com/

Uriah02
11-27-2011, 2:30 PM
I'm not sure what kind of glass yur looking at but I was thinking of something north of 3grand....+ the rifle and I wouldn't consider that well under budget, i also said that would suit me just fine but whatever... :shrug:

Why would you get glass that costs so much more than the rifle? Even with Nightforce, US Optics, Schmidt & Bender you're not gonna find a scope that costs 3K which would be optimally used within the range of a .308 cartridge.
Rem 700 5R ~ $1200
NF/USO/S&B glass ~ 1600-2400

Uriah02
11-27-2011, 2:33 PM
Where is the best price for Leupold MK4 scope? I see them on eBay for around $1200 or so...I am looking for a scope for my AR-10 in 308, and it is between NF or MK4.

It shouldn't be too hard to find a Leupold Mark IV 3.5-10x for mid $900's. The 5.5-22x jumps to the $1200 price range. A NF 5.5-22x will be $1632 without zero stop. I was recently shopping for glass... I ordered a NF from CS Tactical (Calgun vendor). Opticsplanet also has them. Whether they are in stock with the reticle and/or zero stop is a little more particular.

uzigalil
11-27-2011, 2:45 PM
I would go with a Tactical operations tango-51 with a Nightforce optic
or call Mike Rescigno He owns tac ops and answers the phone, hell talk to you about what to get.

What ever you decide you should call him, loves to talk precision rifles.

Tactical Operations, Inc.
433 North Camden Dr. 4th Fl. #239
Beverly Hills, Ca 90210
Phone 310 275-8797

Jaytil
11-27-2011, 2:51 PM
Hey Tom,

I have a GAP-10 and a Suarez Tactical Rifles (AICS/Stiller TAC 30/Bartlein/Jewell) bolt gun and the bolt gun is WAAAY more accurate, shooting sub 1/4 MOA 5 shot and sub 1/10 MOA 3 shot groups at 100 yds. I'm still working on getting a good load for the autoloader, but I'm not below 1 MOA yet with FGMM.

This link is to my buddy's gun and his groups. Mine is virtually identical but for cosmetics.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=197924&Number=2216393

NF is a great scope and a great value when compared to USO or S&B.

Jay

I don't have the money yet :p but I only like to buy one of each kind of firearm, so I'll end up putting a lot of money into it. I'm a quality over quantity guy. :rolleyes: I'm looking for suggestions for precision rifles and optics.

In .308 preferably. No way I'm shooting that expensive .338 Lapua. :p

Which rifle? Bolt action? Semi-automatic?

What optic? NightForce?

1911man
11-27-2011, 2:54 PM
a tubb 2000 in 6.5 lapua.

JFComfort
11-27-2011, 3:41 PM
Spend your money on a lathe and build a rifle.

X-NewYawker
11-27-2011, 3:41 PM
GAP rifle with a nice Manners Stock (AICS is CRAP) or Leupold Mark 4 4.5-14 or 6.5.-20X
$3500 for rifle, 1500 for scope and rings.
Done.

JFComfort
11-27-2011, 3:45 PM
These threads always crack me up.

kmullins
11-27-2011, 4:31 PM
$5,000 can get you a very nice setup. Depending on what type of shooting you like (benchrest, tactical, hunting, etc.), custom action DEFINITELY over a Remington 700 or Savage. Way better resale value and a custom action will be better than an accurized/blueprinted action. If your going that tactical route - I'd go with Surgeon, GAP or a Stiller TAC action. There may be others out there I don't know about. The difference between a tactical/hunting action versus a benchrest actions is the tolerances. Since your going to be more exposed to the elements and dust, if a benchrest action is used there could be problems when in the field with function - things that benchrest actions don't have to worry about. And when I talk about benchrest I talking about actual benchrest competition rifles, not shooting a gun off a bench. For benchrest actions and also some hunting actions - look into Jim Borden, BAT Machine, Stiller Precision Firearms, Neiska and also Kelbly. In my experience, avoid Lawton like the plague.

As far as the rest of the components - Jewell trigger for sure. Many barrel makers are doing well - Kreiger, Bartlein, Broughton, Krieger, Shilen, Hart, Rock Creek and Hart come to mind.

Calibers is a whole other thread. Find out what you want to do with this rifle then pick a caliber.

As far as stocks, I like McMillan and Shehane. McMillan is one of the most popular.

Get a top name smith to assemble this rifle and do the tuning and bedding, and you will have one hell of a rifle.

As far as optics if I was in this situation I'd be using the Nightforce 42 power scope.

Then buy top name reloading supplies and get a set of custom dies made.

And I think you'd be around the $5,000 mark.

This is all my own opinion and I am a different shooter than most of the other forum members. Good luck with the build!

RugerNo1
11-27-2011, 5:04 PM
Brain and Iloveguns have the right idea. To reiderate, it may prove worth your time to make it to a venue that is holding a match/shoot that is dominated by the kind of shooting you want to do. Check out the rifles and see what you like.




These threads always crack me up.

Always! :rofl:

kmullins
11-27-2011, 5:06 PM
To reiderate, it may prove worth your time to make it to a venue that is holding a match/shoot that is dominated by the kind of shooting you want to do. Check out the rifles and see what you like.

Definitely a good suggestion. See what kind of actions, barrels, etc. are being used and then go from there! Good advice RugerNo1!

brando
11-27-2011, 5:32 PM
You can spend less on the actual rifle and more on the optic, ammo and training and get better results than if you spent $4k on the rifle alone.

heycorey
11-27-2011, 5:38 PM
Why would you get glass that costs so much more than the rifle? Even with Nightforce, US Optics, Schmidt & Bender you're not gonna find a scope that costs 3K which would be optimally used within the range of a .308 cartridge.
Rem 700 5R ~ $1200
NF/USO/S&B glass ~ 1600-2400

If it's precision you're going for, buy the best glass you can ... a good scope will last a lifetime. Buy once, cry once.

Oh and ... what brian01tj, Iloveguns, RugerNo1 and kmullins said.

Or what rkt88edmo said ... I'm conflicted on this one.

HK Dave
11-27-2011, 6:17 PM
If you're playing in the $5K range... get yourself this...

Surgeon Scalpel (http://www.surgeonrifles.com/scalpel-3-7-9)

Then pony up and extra $2K and get this....

Nightforce F1 (http://nightforceoptics.com/SCOPES_OVERVIEW/3_5-15x50_F1/3_5-15x50_f1.html)

When you're spending $5K in 1 rifle, what difference does an extra $2K make? ;)

Hoop
11-27-2011, 7:19 PM
I would love to have a sako TRG in 260 or 308. Previous comments about 260 barrel life make me nervous about something like that costing me lots of $$$$ a few years down the road though.


I have a GAP-10...not below 1 MOA yet with FGMM.


Keep trying...the 308 AR I built in my garage is moa or better with good ammo and I doubt it's as good as a GAP :)

Hoop
11-27-2011, 7:22 PM
To reiderate, it may prove worth your time to make it to a venue that is holding a match/shoot that is dominated by the kind of shooting you want to do.

that too.

ScottB
11-27-2011, 7:40 PM
A good friend who spends more time in the field than at home and has taken more big game animals than anyone else I know just acquired his second HS Precision rifle in .300 RUM with a Zeiss Victory 4x16 / Rapid Z 8 Reticle system. It was guaranteed 1/2 MOA and apparently is. Cost, delivered with sling, swivels, limbsaver pad and mercury recoil reducer, was $4.6K. The first rifle was a .300 WM and was also 1/2 MOA. Dude is a real cut-to-the-chase type and wants guaranteed performance out of the box without endlessly dicking around with a rifle trying to make it shoot.

Given your budget and the capability you are looking to acquire, I would look at .300 WM. The trajectory and retained energy of the .308/7.62 at ranges over 300 yards will not be up to the capability of the platform - and I am assuming a bolt action, which is still the gold standard for long range performance. Ask a Marine sniper :)

Haplo
11-27-2011, 8:00 PM
The OP still hasn't specified the purpose of this rifle, and the purpose is very important. Do you intend to attempt 1000 yard shots? Hunting? Plinking? Answers to these questions dictate what you need.

Personally, I love my Noveske w/ an 18" barrel.

brian01tj
11-27-2011, 8:01 PM
How much retained energy do you need to punch a hole in a piece of paper or to get a ding sound from a piece of steel? The op said he wanted a precision target rifle not a big game rifle

ScottB
11-27-2011, 8:29 PM
OP merely said "precision rifle" and indicated the other caliber choice was .338 Lapua (eliminated over cost). I inferred the rest. Long range hunting rifles are becoming popular. The downrange performance of the .338 Lapua and the .308 are not even in the same league. If the OP wants a benchrest rest rifle he should get in the game then talk to serious bench rest competitors and their rifle makers.

17+1
11-27-2011, 8:33 PM
Check out the rifles and see what you like.

Best advice.

You may also find out you aren't really into the whole long range game. It takes a lot of attention to detail, documentation, ability to read conditions etc. Also, if you don't reload yet, you need to start.

17+1
11-27-2011, 8:35 PM
I call mine a sniper rifle all the time :ninja:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRgZWWfpXG4

Bhobbs
11-27-2011, 8:53 PM
I heard that the 260 has the same BC as a 190 gr round fired from a 300 win mag.

Maybe that is what he was talking about. The 260 is a good overall pick.

acg

Here's a list of common match grade rounds. The last number (0.xxx) is the G7 BC of the bullet.

Lapua 0.308" 155gr Scenar 0.236
Sierra 0.308" 155gr Palma 0.229
Hornady 0.308" 155gr Amax 0.212
Hornady 0.308" 168gr Amax 0.230
Sierra 0.308" 168gr Matchking 0.218
Nosler 0.308" 168gr Competition 0.218
Sierra 0.308" 175gr Matchking 0.243
Hornady 0.308" 178gr Amax 0.240
Sierra 0.308" 190gr Matchking 0.270
Hornady 0.308" 208gr Amax 0.324

Berger 0.284" 180gr VLD 0.337
Sierra 0.284" 175gr Matchking 0.327
Hornady 0.284" 162gr Amax 0.307

Sierra 0.264" 142gr Matchking 0.301
JLK 0.264" 140gr VLD 0.327
Berger 0.264" 140gr VLD 0.313
Hornady 0.264" 140gr Amax 0.299
Nosler 0.264" 140gr Competition 0.281
Lapua 0.264" 139gr Scenar 0.285
Berger 0.264" 130gr VLD 0.282
Sierra 0.264" 123gr Matchking 0.260

Berger 0.243" 115gr VLD 0.279
Tubb 0.243" 115gr Dtac 0.276
Sierra 0.243" 107gr Matchking Use 0.510 G1 bc

Sierra 0.224" 69gr Matchking 0.169
Berger 0.224" 75gr VLD 0.217
Hornady 0.224" 75gr Amax 0.212
Sierra 0.224" 77gr Matchking 0.190
Berger 0.224" 80gr VLD 0.228
Sierra 0.224" 80gr Matchking 0.217
Berger 0.224" 90gr VLD 0.281


The 90 grain Berger VLD has a better BC than the 190 SMK.

The 6 and 6.5mm rounds are chosen because they can drive the heavy, high BC bullets fast enough to matter but not generate significant recoil. Also energy doesn't matter when you are punching paper or ringing steel so there is no reason to go to a larger caliber.

Mojaveman
11-27-2011, 9:08 PM
You can build yourself a nice long range rig with five grand. As far as what to do you're going to get a hundred different answers on this forum. If I was in your shoes I'd start with a Remington 700 action and go with a custom barrel, good quality scope, custom stock, trigger, etc. The rest I would spend on a large quantity of match grade ammo and practice. I'd stay away from a really expensive rifle until I knew how to shoot one. My sweet is a Savage 10FP. Anyway, just a few words of advice from an old cowboy who plays with guns.

acaligunner
11-27-2011, 9:16 PM
Bhobbs, I was looking into it and the 260 round had or was very close to the 300 and 338 magnums.

Longer barrel life, less throat erosion, softer recoil, and good ammo, there's also a good selection of calibers in 6mm. 6x47 lapua, 6.5 creedmoor, and the 6.5x55 are nice rounds to work with.

I was looking into the 7wsm, but looks like it's a little hard on barrels.

I'm going to get me a 300wm after I pick up another 308. Thanks for the information.

acaligunner

The Virus
11-27-2011, 9:24 PM
savage .308 10 FCP-K, Nightforce NSX 5.5-22 optic, Bipod, sling.
Spend the rest on ammo

Bhobbs
11-27-2011, 9:36 PM
Bhobbs, I was looking into it and the 260 round had or was very close to the 300 and 338 magnums.

Longer barrel life, less throat erosion, softer recoil, and good ammo, there's also a good selection of calibers in 6mm. 6x47 lapua, 6.5 creedmoor, and the 6.5x55 are nice rounds to work with.

I was looking into the 7wsm, but looks like it's a little hard on barrels.

I'm going to get me a 300wm after I pick up another 308. Thanks for the information.

acaligunner

.260 Rem, 6.5x47 Lapua and .243 Win are going to be just as hard on barrels as barrels as the big magnums. They just have less recoil, weight and cost of the big magnums.

Sgt. J Beezy
11-27-2011, 9:45 PM
Save 3000 more and get the Barrett MRAD in either 300 Win or 308 with the BORS and Leopold sight!!!

That is on my dream list!!!

Pthfndr
11-27-2011, 10:22 PM
I don't have the money yet :p but I only like to buy one of each kind of firearm, so I'll end up putting a lot of money into it. I'm a quality over quantity guy. :rolleyes: I'm looking for suggestions for precision rifles and optics.

In .308 preferably. No way I'm shooting that expensive .338 Lapua. :p

Which rifle? Bolt action? Semi-automatic?

What optic? NightForce?


The question has been asked several times already, but you haven't answered it.....

What kind of shooting do you plan to do with the rifle?

brian01tj
11-27-2011, 10:54 PM
^^^^ Lmao ^^^^

CrossedRifles
11-27-2011, 11:04 PM
Haha sorry.

Shooting from a bench / prone ( :rolleyes: ) , hitting 600 yard steel at least.

No hunting etc.

I'll probably be told a stock Remington 700 will do that but I want to leave my options open to longer ranges.

HK Dave
11-27-2011, 11:08 PM
Get yourself a Rem 700 SPS Tactical, upgrade the stock, get the best damn glass you can afford (Nightforce, Premier, S&B, US Optics, SWFA yadda yadda), and the best trigger you can find that matches you. When you can consistently shoot the .5moa - .75moa the rifle is capable of with match ammo, buy your custom, sexy awesome beast of a rifle.

Until then, it's just a waste of money. :)

Pthfndr
11-27-2011, 11:30 PM
Haha sorry.

Shooting from a bench / prone ( :rolleyes: ) , hitting 600 yard steel at least.

No hunting etc.

I'll probably be told a stock Remington 700 will do that but I want to leave my options open to longer ranges.

Do you see yourself:

Shooting in any tactical rifle matches (such as the CARPC or NCPPRC matches) where you need magazine capacity for multiple shot stages, at multiple distances?

Shooting in NRA High Power mid-long range prone matches (such as F Class) where you DON'T need magazine capacity?

The same questions apply for what kind of scope/reticle you might want to use.

Different tools for different jobs. You can get one rifle that is good at a lot of things, but might not be the best for one thing.

rkt88edmo
11-28-2011, 3:07 AM
I stand by my original remark and am offended that it only received one "second"

cannon
11-28-2011, 7:03 AM
Sako, They are scary accurate and mine holds it's zero in snow, sleet and desert heat.

Iloveguns
11-28-2011, 11:19 AM
Would it not be better for the op to buy a custom made rifle, done by one of the better rifle makers in the bolt action field, then send the rifle out and have it put together by different mfgs?

GA Precision is a proven custom rifle maker that builds what they say. The basic 'base' rifle is $2,800. The Rock is $3,200, and the Gladius is $3,800. If the op wants a semi auto the GAP AR-10 is $2,600.

Theses sticks are proven designs, that are built to perform, and they come in different calibers if the customer wants. Plus they are built IN HOUSE.

All the shooter needs to do is take a class, by the equipment to support his rifle, reload, and then learn his system so he can get the most out of his rifle/round/scope.

acaligunner

First off GA Precision makes a great rifle. But your paying for a Brand Name. Im pretty sure there is more then one smith over there making the rifles. Are some builders better then others? Of course. But does not mean you cant get the same exact quality while spending a lot less money. My Rem 700 was Chambered by a well known smith on the east coast. And my Stiller was chambered by a buddy of mine. Both shoot under .5" Moa. And the prices I quoted were with glass just in case no one saw that. There is no magical formula when it comes to spinning barrels. You just need to know exactly what you are doing! Here is the price of my rifles with out glass if that is better:

LH Rem 700 Trued Action
Bartlien barrel chambered in 308 (21" with 11.25 twist)
Manners T4-A
Timney trigger
R&D Brake and DBM


Cost was around $1450

LH Stiller Tac-30AW Action
Bartlien barrel chambered in 243 (26" and 7.8 twist)
Manners T4-A
Timney Trigger
R&D Brake and DBM

Cost right around $2000


If you would like to know a few smiths that will get you taken care of for less then the price of a GAP, let me know. I would be happy to tell you a few names.

Iloveguns
11-28-2011, 11:21 AM
But to Reiterate what I said in the beginning. Come out to some function of what you are looking to do. Either a clinic or a match. You will get a way better idea of what you want.

hnoppenberger
11-28-2011, 11:41 AM
keep it real, basic, and to the point

rem 700 police, with a leupold mark 4 scope, rings and bases.

top it off with a trigger job (or adjust it yourself, easy) and a harris pod.

maybe have it glass bedded if you want to spend more, and maybe a
tactical latch and muzzle break.

save the rest of the money. the gun will out shoot you.

drunktank
11-28-2011, 11:44 AM
Seriously, I'd do something around this order, were I in your shoes.

Buy reloading equipment
Buy an R700 varmint in caliber of choice.
Atlas bipod
Stock of choice
Premeir optic.

Upgrade the rifle as your skill increases.

17+1
11-28-2011, 12:03 PM
What kind of shooting do you plan to do with the rifle?

"Long range shooting...home defense...hunting...close-quarter-battle...$heet hits the fan..."

"TELL ME NOW!"

:p

acaligunner
11-28-2011, 12:58 PM
First off GA Precision makes a great rifle. But your paying for a Brand Name. Im pretty sure there is more then one smith over there making the rifles. Are some builders better then others? Of course. But does not mean you cant get the same exact quality while spending a lot less money. My Rem 700 was Chambered by a well known smith on the east coast. And my Stiller was chambered by a buddy of mine. Both shoot under .5" Moa. And the prices I quoted were with glass just in case no one saw that. There is no magical formula when it comes to spinning barrels. You just need to know exactly what you are doing! Here is the price of my rifles with out glass if that is better:

LH Rem 700 Trued Action
Bartlien barrel chambered in 308 (21" with 11.25 twist)
Manners T4-A
Timney trigger
R&D Brake and DBM


Cost was around $1450

LH Stiller Tac-30AW Action
Bartlien barrel chambered in 243 (26" and 7.8 twist)
Manners T4-A
Timney Trigger
R&D Brake and DBM

Cost right around $2000


If you would like to know a few smiths that will get you taken care of for less then the price of a GAP, let me know. I would be happy to tell you a few names.


Those are some nice prices on those rifles. I probably missed the part where they also came with scopes. I know there are some good rifles out there, and many quality builders also.

To the op, look around see and talk to those that shoot a lot of competition/tactical shoots (which ever you want to get into), and then see what's best for you.

5k sure does give you a lot of ways to go. You don't really have to spend that much on a rifle, but consider once you get everything you need, you'll have to maintain your equipment.

If I had 5k to spend on one bolt action rifle, it would be a AI 300WM, maybe 338LM. But that's just me. I know they eat barrels, and are expensive to shoot, but sometimes you just have to support, what the rifle/ammo/scope gives you.

Thanks for the help also Iloveguns, I'll make sure if I have any more questions to give you a pm.

Thanks acaligunner

hcbr
11-28-2011, 2:18 PM
i'd spend most of my money on optics, and just buy like a rem. 700 with a new AICS stock on it.

That or a sako or build up an AR10 hehe ;)

guns4life
11-28-2011, 2:22 PM
5 x 1,000.00 rifles.

bomb_on_bus
11-28-2011, 7:27 PM
Appleseed, hookers, and blow.

Can you outshoot a $1,500 rig?

I will second that!

:D

The best rifle in the world wont be worth a darn if the person behind it cant shoot it. If you get a rifle that is capable of quarter inch groups but at best can shoot the side of a barn it doesnt matter how super laser accurate the gun is as the nut behind it isnt.

Cypriss32
11-29-2011, 9:40 AM
Why dont you go do this, go look at some rifles a the range and gun store. Im willing to bet if you buy a rifle one of these guys says to, you WILL be unhappy. Build a custom rifle, remy action is a given. Good scope, anything VOrtex PST or Weaver tactical will survice. Buy loading stuff, and then go shoot. See if its worth 5k to. The reloading stuff will make your shooting MORE affordable and you can go more. In return getting better and having fun.

Edited to add. That idiot that posted bolt actions are more accurate then semis. Dude old school think are you? You got ALOT to learn about shooting. I am sure WHEN you go outa state and you get smoked by them. You will be one of those guys that complains about that claiming its unfair advantage. A AR10 with a good barrel and a good shooter is AWESOME!

Iloveguns
11-29-2011, 11:17 AM
Edited to add. That idiot that posted bolt actions are more accurate then semis. Dude old school think are you? You got ALOT to learn about shooting. I am sure WHEN you go outa state and you get smoked by them. You will be one of those guys that complains about that claiming its unfair advantage. A AR10 with a good barrel and a good shooter is AWESOME!

The major difference between a Semi Auto and a Bolt Actions is this. You need to spend a lot of money to get any good accuracy out of a Semi Auto. Looking at spending at least $2k just to get it shooting close to a stock Remington 700. Dependability is the other thing. I have been to the out of state matches. I have seen some Semi Autos do pretty decent. But I have seen way more go down during a comp then anything. When a bolt action is having problems you can usually fix it and get back in the game. But when a Semi Auto goes down you dont have enough time to figure it out. You look at all the top 10 results in any of the big matches and you will see what people are using.

Cypriss32
11-29-2011, 5:45 PM
The major difference between a Semi Auto and a Bolt Actions is this. You need to spend a lot of money to get any good accuracy out of a Semi Auto. Looking at spending at least $2k just to get it shooting close to a stock Remington 700. Dependability is the other thing. I have been to the out of state matches. I have seen some Semi Autos do pretty decent. But I have seen way more go down during a comp then anything. When a bolt action is having problems you can usually fix it and get back in the game. But when a Semi Auto goes down you dont have enough time to figure it out. You look at all the top 10 results in any of the big matches and you will see what people are using.


I was doing this before you even knew about any of this man. You wouldnt happen to friends with Randle R. would you? Or did you steal the idea that I helped him put together in the start. Ohh ya I have had more scopes go down then rifles anyday...... And seen 10x more others scopes break. Your living old school bro AR10s aint M1A's

And you are high off your *** if you are NOT into 2k ina bolt gun.
350.00 for action
300 for barrel
350 M5 BDM
500 Manners stock
350 for trueing and barrel chambering
150 for bedding

$2000.00 thats the cheapest you can put together a rifle.... Most smiths charge more then 350 and 150. Ohh ya I did NOT add shipping or any extras. Im going to make a thread in a few weeks...
Box stock rifles and custom rifle.

PSS with manners stock 4-16 Vortex VS Armalight Match 20" with same scope. Both triggers at 3.5 Ill shoot 100-1k (when I get to sac valley to see Vu).

heycorey
11-29-2011, 6:13 PM
Edited to add. That idiot that posted bolt actions are more accurate then semis. Dude old school think are you? You got ALOT to learn about shooting. I am sure WHEN you go outa state and you get smoked by them. You will be one of those guys that complains about that claiming its unfair advantage. A AR10 with a good barrel and a good shooter is AWESOME!

That's weird, I was thinking that if one were planning on doing any shooting in California with an AR10, one might complain about the unfair advantage of those bolt-guys who don't have boolet-buttons stuck on their sticks.

rksimple
11-29-2011, 9:21 PM
Do you see yourself:

Shooting in any tactical rifle matches (such as the CARPC or NCPPRC matches) where you need magazine capacity for multiple shot stages, at multiple distances?

Shooting in NRA High Power mid-long range prone matches (such as F Class) where you DON'T need magazine capacity?

The same questions apply for what kind of scope/reticle you might want to use.

Different tools for different jobs. You can get one rifle that is good at a lot of things, but might not be the best for one thing.

This needs to be answered first. The problem when starting out with a big budget is you just don't know enough to know what you really want.

As to the semi vs bolt stuff, semis are not as easy to drive well all the time under all conditions in all positions. And at the range, they work fine. In match conditions, they rarely run well. I've been to more than a handful precision rifle matches across the country and the semis almost ALWAYS have problems. Especially when things get dusty, dirty and gritty. And semis are an absolute headache when it comes to transitioning between ports in a barricade, positions, etc. with your bolt open...a common requirement in most big matches. Iloveguns was at a match with me in NM when a high end POF turned into a practical single shot halfway through the first day.

Adam-overgas that AR man! Make it run dirty and dry. In that same match, Steve from AZ got 2nd iirc with his 6mm ar turbo. Took him over a year to get it running, but after that it served him well. That was the only semi I've ever seen run well through an entire match. Might have also helped that he's a state champion field air rifle shooter as well. The guy's damn good.

OP-figure out what you want the rifle to do and how you want to shoot it. That will determine everything from caliber to optics.

Iloveguns
11-29-2011, 9:32 PM
I was doing this before you even knew about any of this man. You wouldnt happen to friends with Randle R. would you? Or did you steal the idea that I helped him put together in the start. Ohh ya I have had more scopes go down then rifles anyday...... And seen 10x more others scopes break. Your living old school bro AR10s aint M1A's

And you are high off your *** if you are NOT into 2k ina bolt gun.
350.00 for action
300 for barrel
350 M5 BDM
500 Manners stock
350 for trueing and barrel chambering
150 for bedding

$2000.00 thats the cheapest you can put together a rifle.... Most smiths charge more then 350 and 150. Ohh ya I did NOT add shipping or any extras. Im going to make a thread in a few weeks...
Box stock rifles and custom rifle.

PSS with manners stock 4-16 Vortex VS Armalight Match 20" with same scope. Both triggers at 3.5 Ill shoot 100-1k (when I get to sac valley to see Vu).

Wow! Glad to hear that you have been in this awhile! Congrats! I have only been in this sport for a few years so I am relatively new to this. But in those last few years I have been to a few matches! And have shot with a bunch of top shooters. I have seen and heard a lot of stories of Semi's going down. And your right I have seen more scopes go down then anything. Dont think I worded it right in my first post. I will let the Randall comment slide! But what are you saying I stole from you? I'm pretty sure I'm not high as I don't touch the ****. Prices I put up are what I'm into my rifle for. I did most of the basic stuff my self. All you have to do is read up and you can figure the **** out. Not hard to bed a rifle your self. Or to tune a trigger. Sure your price list is fine for what you wanted but I didn't get all my stuff brand new. Here is the break down.

Stiller Tac-30 $825
Bartlien Barrel $280
Timney Trigger $105
Manners T4-A $400
R&D DBM $215
R&D Rad Brake $80

Chamber Job was done by a local guy for cheap, Brandon M.($100). But Quote I got from Randy at R&D was $350 for chamber job.

So total we are at $2250
For a custom rig that is pretty cheap. Only thing I got used was the Stock and the trigger. Barrel and Action were bought on a group buy. Did not add shipping because my smith is with in driving distance! All the parts were prices shipped! Well I wont be up to Sac Valley this month but if you want I will see you up there in January! And if you go to Phoenix or Vegas, I hope we get to shoot together there as well some time next year. Like you Im a shooter not a couch Ninja!

tonelar
11-29-2011, 9:37 PM
steyr scout (jeff cooper edition) in 7.62 NATO

and $3K worth of ammo

Juice5610
11-29-2011, 9:43 PM
OP send a PM to myself or any of my teammates if you have any questions regarding building a precision rifle we wont steer you wrong... Once you got your rifle squared away send another PM we would happily show you how to run in properly. See you on the line.

kmullins
11-29-2011, 9:54 PM
Semi-autos will never be more accurate than a bolt action, given rifles of exact same quality. Bolt actions are more accurate because of more consistent lock up. Didn't think anyone still thought otherwise. Not to say semi-autos can't be accurate but they will never be more accurate than bolt actions, given all variables are equal.

Cypriss32
11-29-2011, 9:58 PM
I can have fun with these guys....... too good.

problemchild
11-29-2011, 9:59 PM
Semi-autos will never be more accurate than a bolt action, given rifles of exact same quality. Bolt actions are more accurate because of more consistent lock up. Didn't think anyone still thought otherwise. Not to say semi-autos can't be accurate but they will never be more accurate than bolt actions, given all variables are equal.

Gap 10 will out shoot or shoot the same as most bolts.

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q125/excess12/IMG_0705.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b169/ebhall/ar308011.jpg

Pthfndr
11-29-2011, 10:11 PM
Gap 10 will out shoot or shoot the same as most bolts.

No, it won't.

From GA Precision's own website:
3/4 MOA Accuracy Guaranteed

That's with match quality ammo.

Are they good? Yes, undeniably.

But there is a reason you see no gas guns at the top of bench rest competition.

Again, it comes down to using the right tool for the job.

kmullins
11-29-2011, 10:12 PM
Problemchild -

Nice shooting and a very nice rifle as well. It's just my opinion, that's all.

I don't dislike semi-autos or don't believe there is no use for them, but bolt actions are proven to be more accurate. Semi-autos have inconsistentencies in the action lock up design, as well as not being chambered in the most accurate, proven cartridges (6 PPC, 6 BR, 30 BR, 6.5x284, 284 Winchester, etc.)...

If you still think a semi-auto is more accurate in design than a bolt action, then why is the world record 5 shot group in 1000 yard benchrest of 1.59" held by a bolt action?

This conversation isn't really even worth having, but to each his own I guess. Take this conversation over to benchrest.com and you'll be laughed at by the most accurate shooters in the world with the most accurate rifles - none of which are semi-auto.

problemchild
11-29-2011, 10:28 PM
No, it won't.

From GA Precision's own website:
3/4 MOA Accuracy Guaranteed

That's with match quality ammo.

Are they good? Yes, undeniably.

But there is a reason you see no gas guns at the top of bench rest competition.

Again, it comes down to using the right tool for the job.

Thats the webpage. At the range they shoot a WHOLE LOT BETTER. I have seen 700 yard targets with 2 inch groups from this gun. Do your homework next time you want to bash a semi-auto. Read what the hide says about the gun. The owner of the hide says it shoots as good as a bolt gun and he has the best bolt guns made.

My LMT will get the job done too. I know I can out shoot most bolt shooters with their bolt rifle but I bet they could not pick up my semi's and out shoot me on the semi. The semis amplify any faults you have by 300%.

That gap is not my gun its a gun from sh.
I own an LMT. I was shooting at the dime size black target.
http://www.michaelkdickson.com/webjunk/LMT/Nightforce/NF-LMT-range%20001a.jpg
http://www.michaelkdickson.com/webjunk/LMT/Nightforce/NF-LMT%20001a.jpg

Pthfndr
11-29-2011, 10:35 PM
Do your homework next time you want to bash a semi-auto.

I think YOU should do your homework regarding who you are telling to do their homework before you do so.

Did you even read past the first sentence in my reply?

Read what the hide says about the gun. The owner of the hide says it shoots as good as a bolt gun and he has the best bolt guns made.

Ahh, you read it on the internet!!!!

I read, and post on, the Hide too. It is not the final authority regarding all things firearms related.

Iloveguns
11-29-2011, 10:40 PM
Thats the webpage. At the range they shoot a WHOLE LOT BETTER.

So if that is correct then the Bolt guns they make that are .5 moa Guaranteed shoot way better!

Do your homework next time you want to bash a semi-auto. Read what the hide says about the gun. The owner of the hide says it shoots as good as a bolt gun and he has the best bolt guns made..

Frank also says an 18" barrel can hit 1k but does that mean you want to have that short of a barrel if you are constantly shooting 1k?

And I love how you just told Rob to do your home work!!

Cyc Wid It
11-29-2011, 10:40 PM
It took longer than I expected to really pick up steam, but this thread is beginning to deliver.

Juice5610
11-29-2011, 10:43 PM
It took longer than I expected to really pick up steam, but this thread is beginning to deliver.

:popcorn:

DirtRacer151
11-29-2011, 10:44 PM
I pulled targets at Sac for a guy shooting a GAP-10. It was impressive for a auto but consequently i still beat him that match with my bolt gun and even saw a for sale add for the same auto a few months later. If i was going to build an auto i'd do a GAP-10. Lets not confuse the potential of a %100 pimped out Auto and a %100 pimped out bolt. There really is no comparison in reliability, consistency, and drive ability. The bolt wins every time.

DirtRacer151
11-29-2011, 10:46 PM
And I love how you just told Rob to do your home work!!

Rob, go back to school!! You don't know jack!! You still shoot wood stocked rifles!! :D;)

vintagearms
11-29-2011, 10:56 PM
It took longer than I expected to really pick up steam, but this thread is beginning to deliver.

Gotta love when threads goto imy d*ck is bigger (or in this case smaller) :p

Jeffu
11-29-2011, 10:59 PM
MK12 Mod1 SPR - Custom built by High Caliber Sales
Highest quality SPR you can get, picture doesn't do this gun any justice, smoothest trigger ever and breaks very clean.

High Caliber Sales MK12 Mod1 upper with LMT Upper Receiver
KAC 600m Front & Rear sights
Ops Inc Brake & Collar
Nightforce NXS 2.5-10x24mm + Larue LT104 mount
KAC Bipod mount
Harris Bipod 6-9
LMT Defender 2000 lower
LMT Sopmod Gen2
KAC 2 stage trigger
KAC combat trigger guard
Magpul MOE+
Magpul BAD
Magpul ASAP
and some more extras
$4300

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss111/denimtalk/MK12HDR-MM.jpg

Juice5610
11-29-2011, 11:04 PM
MK12 Mod1 SPR - Custom built by High Caliber Sales
Highest quality SPR you can get, picture doesn't do this gun any justice, smoothest trigger ever and breaks very clean.


$4300

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss111/denimtalk/MK12HDR-MM.jpg

WTF!? Did this turn into the For sale section just like that? Thread hijack of the century right here lmao.... We should get back on track and respect the OP and his thread

Pthfndr
11-29-2011, 11:05 PM
Rob, go back to school!! You don't know jack!! You still shoot wood stocked rifles!! :D;)

:thumbsup:

X-NewYawker
11-29-2011, 11:22 PM
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p54/Fasanoland/Rifles/_MG_5333.jpg

I have a new idea. $1000 Remington 700 5R -- the stock is fine -- then get $3500 US Optics SN-3 scope…

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p54/Fasanoland/Rifles/_MG_5346.jpg

The 5R with a crisp trigger will shoot better than almost all of us here at Angeles Range distances. Practice til you're REAL good. And you can get/make accurate Semiautos, but they will cost more (at least twice) than a 5R and not shoot any better.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p54/Fasanoland/P1010634.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p54/Fasanoland/Rifles/NF-5-22x.jpg

Jaytil
11-29-2011, 11:30 PM
I have a new idea. $1000 Remington 700 5R -- the stock is fine -- then get $3500 US Optics SN-3 scope…

The 5R with a crisp trigger will shoot better than almost all of us here at Angeles Range distances. Practice til you're REAL good. And you can get/make accurate Semiautos, but they will cost more (at least twice) than a 5R and not shoot any better.

But that last pic is a NF!! :) I think this is a great rig. Some 5R's outshoot custom rigs right out of the box. I think you were saying that the trigger should be upgraded and I would agree with that. The HS Precision stock is very good as is. Either one of these scopes are outstanding!

LMAO at the "Mother of all thread hijacks" above.

Iloveguns
11-29-2011, 11:33 PM
But that last pic is a NF!! :) I think this is a great rig. Some 5R's outshoot custom rigs right out of the box. I think you were saying that the trigger should be upgraded and I would agree with that. The HS Precision stock is very good as is. Either one of these scopes are outstanding!


Its also two different Rifles!! But Both are great set ups!

X-NewYawker
11-29-2011, 11:38 PM
But that last pic is a NF!! :) I think this is a great rig. Some 5R's outshoot custom rigs right out of the box. I think you were saying that the trigger should be upgraded and I would agree with that. The HS Precision stock is very good as is. Either one of these scopes are outstanding!

LMAO at the "Mother of all thread hijacks" above.

Basically, the 5R just needs a tuned trigger and as you said, with the HS stock, is is halfway to being a brilliant rifle -- the other half being the SCOPE.
I switch my scopes around to take pics for the magazines. I don't think I've had the same scope on a gun for more than a week. Always sighting th e bastards in!

Jaytil
11-29-2011, 11:41 PM
...I don't think I've had the same scope on a gun for more than a week. Always sighting th e bastards in!

My kinda guy!! Change glass, change mount, change furniture, change mind, repeat...

ZX-10R
11-30-2011, 7:15 AM
$5k? A used sportbike.

Gem1950
11-30-2011, 7:22 AM
http://www.rdprecision.net/gallery.html

He is in Ca.

bighead
11-30-2011, 10:48 AM
You should spend 10k, 5 won't get you too tier.

Cypriss32
11-30-2011, 10:59 AM
LOL that Jeffu hes sure a peice of work..........

Sicarius
11-30-2011, 11:32 AM
I would start with a 5R and upgrade as needed and as you get better. More often than not, the 5R will outshoot the shooter out of the box. As you get better, you will notice what needs to be changed out to keep up with your developing skill. Good glass is where you will be investing the money initially so ~1200 for the rifle, possibly 2k+ for some glass and a reloader/supplies should put you under your budget with a little room for upgrades as they are needed. I say reloader because for what you want, you are going to need to fine tune your loads to get the most potential out of your gun no matter what you end up buying... same for good glass. Those will be the two constants in the equation.
Kevin

Midian
11-30-2011, 11:43 AM
I'd buy a $2500.00 rifle and precious metals

AM9000
11-30-2011, 3:22 PM
US Optics + AI AW = :party:

AeroEngi
11-30-2011, 4:03 PM
Sako TRG-22 in .308 and a Nightforce NXS 5.5-22x56mm.

\thread.

problemchild
11-30-2011, 4:15 PM
Regarding the GAP-10. I think this is a solid rifle to take a look at unless you ONLY want a bolt gun. But if you want a 1/2" gun and thats good enough the GAP will fit the bill and its not cost prohibitive.


Any semi that runs this good should be considered for the OP's purchase which was my point. A Gap-10 and an NF 3x15 would be under 5k and a great stick.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Anyway since something from the "internet" cant be true....

Here is a direct quote from the owner of the Hide.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2490714#Post2490714

"Lowlight (Frank)

Commandant

Registered: 04/14/01
Posts: 16686
Loc: Base of the Rockies
During the "demo day" before the SHC George delivered my new GAP 10 rifle.

Spec's 18" 308, with Surefire brake for my 762SS and PRS stock, I immediately mounted my new NF F1 3-15X with Hi Speed Turrets and MLR2.

During the sight in, I was in the black on the second round, very little adjustment was necessary for the new optic, it was on paper out of the box. My first small group with M118LR was about 1/2" in size, I made the adjustment necessary using the Mils to center and just set out to reset my turrets. My first shot after setting the zero stop and zeroing the turrets was in the 1/4" orange dot in the center of Shoot N C. Scott from Vortex was on glass and witnessed my shot, along with several others. My next shot was on top of Tony Burkes' shot which was in the center of his target, yes I shot his shot with my shot and hit it on demand. Insert giggles...

Lastly, I went and shot a solid 1/4" MOA group, again with witness from the wooden deck at Rifles Only, add even more giggling and at that point I stopped because everyone was walking on the deck and shaking it so I didn't want to **** it up. It was beyond expectations.

Fast forward to yesterday, I then shot the rifle to 1000 yards at RO, I needed 10.5 Mils to reach 1000 yards the wind, while not full value was still 24 MPH, and it hit with ease from 400 to 1000 yards while I got my dope. After I actually cleaned the rifle to the disbelief of those who remained at RO.

Ammo used both times, M118LR...

Muzzle Velocity was recorded on Demo Day as 2556fps, though Sunday's MV seemed a bit higher.

I have shot Jacob's OBR as well I have witnessed him shoot it, which I consider him a better shot than I am. He easily shoots 1/2MOA groups with the OBR, although I don't think he has shot a group since the first day. The OBR is reliable and accurate, but I think my GAP is more accurate, I cannot comment on the reliability beyond my past experience with my 2 other GAP Semi Auto rifles... because honestly I only have 75 rounds through the GAP 10.

I love my GAP 10, I guarantee I shoot it more than my bolt guns for some time to come... it's a winner for sure. "

They make a 22" for those complaining about 18"'s
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm106/nicksquick/1.jpg

More thoughts from Frank.........

The new GAP is not the OLD GAP-10

"Second to explain what changed from a 2002 GAP AR10 Type and the NEW GAP 10... well just about everything.

Upper Receiver
Lower Receiver
Barrel
Heat Sink / Barrel Lock up /Mounting

Essentially the whole system is different, not to mention techniques to build the rifle. To say you shot a early 2000s rifle from them, and then to waste everyone's time trying to convince them not to buy the new and improved version is absolutely disingenuous, and malicious. Plus I won't get into the fact that in 2002 the GAP AR10 TYPE won the Army Sniper competition using Black Hills Ammunition and was noted then, almost 10 years ago to shoot in the 1/2 Minute range. I know I have posted images of early AR10s from GAP shooting sub MOA including my 16" model that hammers 1 MOA out to 800 yards, verified, used and witnessed by others. With Factory Ammo. But then again, that and $2.50 will get me a coffee at Starbucks.

Clearly someone in this thread has an agenda and is simply trying to put out a hit piece, I bet it gets him a discount with his other choice semi autos.

Semi Auto 308s are not for everyone, they require effort to shoot well. And if you are not up to the task no amount of load development will help you beyond a certain point. Your fundamentals have to be solid, period, end of discussion. The new methods which Semi Auto 308s are being built have definitely increased accuracy, across the board, unfortunately the shooters have yet to catch up. "

m1match
11-30-2011, 4:19 PM
It took 4 pages of posts for someone to suggest a Sako TRG-22!! I'm surprised, I was going to say the same thing. You can get a TRG-22 in .308 and the Nightforce NXS 5.5-22x56 within your $5K budget and you'll have a great rifle/scope combination. The Sako action is very smooth, has a 60 degree bolt lift (Rem 700, Win 70, etc all have 90 degree bolt lift) and an excellent factory trigger. It will shoot on par with a custom Rem 700 based rifle, and it holds it's value pretty well.

With a custom rifle, you can get what you want, but since you're just starting out, it's likely you don't have the experience yet to really know what you like or dislike in a precision rifle. Furthermore, unless you get it built by a well known top gunsmith like GA Precision, it will not hold it's value very well if you ever decide to sell it.

With the Sako, it's true that the factory bipod and the magazines are expensive, but the factory bipod is excellent and you won't need a whole lot of extra magazines. Within a few months, Accu-Shot should be coming out with a mounting spigot to use their excellent Atlas bipod with the Sako.

A previous poster suggested an Accuracy International AW. I have one and it's an awesome rifle, but you won't even be able to get the rifle for $5000 much less rifle, scope mount, and scope.

Kerplow
11-30-2011, 5:36 PM
Appleseed, hookers, and blow.

Can you outshoot a $1,500 rig?

this. no sense in blowing your wad on a super rifle if you cant shoot better than a factory rifle.

GoBig
12-31-2011, 7:00 PM
^^^ you beat me to it.

DTs are great.

That's what I ordered!

jeffreyliu838
12-31-2011, 8:20 PM
It's hard to recommend a rifle... So much of it is preference. I feel like there is no comparison to Schmidt & Bender's scopes though. They definitely make the best optics.

CrossedRifles
12-31-2011, 8:26 PM
I thought this died. Let it die!

I've taken the advice and will just shoot a Remington 700 and NightForce until I've gotten a grasp and experience in precision shooting, then will buy a rifle that will tailor my needs.

BRANDON7766
12-31-2011, 9:49 PM
What 700 did you end up getting?

68Datsun510
01-01-2012, 12:24 AM
50 Mosin Nagants!

elrey7698
01-01-2012, 2:59 AM
Some one is making under 40k and gonna spend spend their tax return on a rifle...my dream rifle was only $860 sinreally shop around...so spend the money on youre kid

Latigo
01-01-2012, 7:37 AM
Wow! What a thread! Lots of advice, tons of advice, but why not go do some research first? Go the the Camp Perry Annuals starting around 2006 and actually read about the types of rifles that took top honors and the shooters that made it all happen?
Ever heard of David Tubb? Read about him, his rifles and his methodology. All the talk and advice in the world doesn't stack up against results proven by actual shooters and the rifles that took them to the top.
Advertising hype and sub 1/2" moa claims on an internet forum means nothing at all. If all of these claims were true you'd see their names at the top of the competition archives.

send it_hit
01-01-2012, 1:42 PM
GA Precision bolt rifle in 6.5 creedmoor, nightforce optic until I can afford S&B

bubbapug1
01-02-2012, 12:00 AM
A Sako or Tikka out of the box is as good as a GAP, but a lot cheaper. If you really have to shoot .308.....

Now if you really want an accurate gun buy a 6ppc Stolle Panda from Kelby's with a march scope and know you are holding one of the most accurate guns ever made on the planet in the history of mankind. The only thing you need to do is make your own ammo in a hand case kit, and hit the bull. The gun can shoot 0.1" groups (five shots) out of the box IF you can keep it steady.

.308 can't shoot 0.1" five shot groups...


http://kelbly.com/main.html

NYY
01-02-2012, 12:19 AM
$5k?!?!?! shiiiiiii. GAP USMC M40A1.