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View Full Version : M1A Socom II or SCAR 17S or AR-10


jteamdelo
11-26-2011, 10:30 PM
So i really want to get a 308 cal rifle, and Im very torn between what to get, my dad recently got his FFL so he gets guns pretty cheap now and I was looking at the Socom II and heard great things but i saw her can get the SCAR 17S for a decent price but I dont know anything about that gun, i havent heard any reviews at all so im not sure if that would be a good buy or not, and I have an AR-15 and deployed with my m-16 so im very familiar with that platform but I kinda want to try something new. So any help you guys could give would be awesome. Thanks guys!!!

NSR500
11-26-2011, 10:41 PM
Neither one of those. Get an FAL and you'll have a better battle rifle.

jteamdelo
11-26-2011, 10:58 PM
FAL really? have u used the SCAR??

nickyrr
11-26-2011, 11:07 PM
Depending on where you're located state wise might be easier to get a socom than a scar..
But really the best way I think is to fire each of you can, hold it and see how they feel. Afterall you're going to be spending a big chunk of money.

NSR500
11-26-2011, 11:12 PM
I've spent time around the SCAR platform and I'm not that impressed. I'll put the FAL against the SCAR any day.

MrPlink
11-26-2011, 11:19 PM
I've spent time around the SCAR platform and I'm not that impressed. I'll put the FAL against the SCAR any day.

I'll take that bet :D

lighter, shoots softer, better ergos, more modular out of the box, sub-moa accuracy, what did I miss?

Dont get me wrong, I love the FAL platform. But its not a fair comparison, old design vs new

NSR500
11-26-2011, 11:37 PM
The SCAR is only just lighter and a tad more accurate. The reciprocating charging handle sucks and is positioned too high.
I had an Eotech mounted as far back as I could and using the damn charging handle was terrible. Trying other optics you really have to have a setup with a slimmer base. Otherwise, the charging handle ran your hand into the optic system.
As for "softer shooting", I disagree. The FAL with the gas set correctly and using the same PWS brake shoots just fine. Now regarding the modularity... The FAL with the DSA or VLTOR quad rails can have the same Gucci gear that all the Gucci commandos want to run.

People just knock the FAL because it isn't in some damn video game.

FAL > SCAR

NSR500
11-26-2011, 11:39 PM
BTW...

You can spend $1500 or less on an FAL and use the rest on ammo and training. At the end of the day it's money better spent versus the $3000+ dropped on the SCAR.

MrPlink
11-27-2011, 12:02 AM
The SCAR is only just lighter and a tad more accurate. The reciprocating charging handle sucks and is positioned too high.
I had an Eotech mounted as far back as I could and using the damn charging handle was terrible. Trying other optics you really have to have a setup with a slimmer base. Otherwise, the charging handle ran your hand into the optic system.
As for "softer shooting", I disagree. The FAL with the gas set correctly and using the same PWS brake shoots just fine. Now regarding the modularity... The FAL with the DSA or VLTOR quad rails can have the same Gucci gear that all the Gucci commandos want to run.

People just knock the FAL because it isn't in some damn video game.

FAL > SCAR

Im very used to AKs, so the CH thing does not bother me. As for optics, I ran a Comp M4 with the mount inverted, and now have a CMR with a single piece mount, no issue for either.

Im not using the PWS on mine, still shoots softer. You add DSA or VLTOR rails to a FAL and the weight difference becomes far more considerable.

And for the record, the FAL is in PLENTY of video games. ;)

pacifico23
11-27-2011, 12:08 AM
FAL over Scar?!?!? FAL is by far one of the most uncomfortable semi autos
to rifles I have ever used. I have shot the 16 but never the 17s. If the Scar 17 is half as comfortable as the 16 (which I will be). I'll take the Scar.

NSR500
11-27-2011, 12:14 AM
So...

Is a SCAR $1500+ better than an FAL?

I think not...

Heck... Even the LMT MWS is better value than the SCAR.

vta
11-27-2011, 12:25 AM
Here is what's gonna happen:
Your dad has a ffl and now can get guns at wholesale. You will buy one of the 3 guns you mentioned above. 2 months later you will scrounge up more pennies from the couch cushions and get him to buy you another one. By summer, you will have all three. And maybe a FAL too before next Halloween.

LOLfornia
11-27-2011, 12:56 AM
the op posted scar/Socom II/AR-10


Personally, after much thinking, reading, and research I would be upgrading the Socom II and be attempting to turn it into what the SCAR already is. Going with the SCAR makes things easy for me and is the correct choice for what I want in a rifle. The AR-10 didn't ever get me "excited" but it probably is a fantastic rifle as well. It all depends on what job you want your rifle to fulfill.

Best wishes on your journey making a selection!

BillyGoatMachine
11-27-2011, 2:13 AM
LMT MWS hands down. Socom II has horrible accuracy, and the Scar is overpriced IMO.

Uriah02
11-27-2011, 2:54 AM
I would go with an AR-10 model there are a lot of options from the LMT MWS and LWRC REPR at the higher price spectrum and a DPMS (with an OLL) if you want a more budget .308.

MrPlink
11-27-2011, 3:07 AM
So...

Is a SCAR $1500+ better than an FAL?

I think not...

Heck... Even the LMT MWS is better value than the SCAR.

I do not quite agree with the inference here. As a premise, the SCAR is def in the luxury category, and like most products and goods, when you get to the upper echelons of a given category you start to experience diminishing returns in relation to increases in price. Want a blaring example that isnt far from home? Take a look at really high end optics. Now look at something half, or even 1/3rd the price for comparison. Same relation. If you want something on the top of the food chain, you have to pay for it, pure and simple. Another thing HIGHLY ignored by a large segment of the firearms community (at least those of us into more "modern" guns) is collectibility In the long run the FN will hold value rather well. Take a look at an actual FN made FAL, or an actual HK91. A DSA or LMT (once again, dont get me wrong, I like both of these a lot, esp LMT) wont have the same value as a FN down the road.

protoolsnerd
11-27-2011, 3:45 AM
What about instead of a SCAR a Bushmaster / Remington ACR ? Or maybe the FN FNAR ? Something to consider. Hell i'm even looking at a Saiga AK chambered in 7.62 nato.

Diabolus
11-27-2011, 7:00 AM
Another vote for the FN SCAR.

If you put the wrong kind of optic mount on the top rail you will have problems with the reciprocating charging handle. After shooting hundreds of rounds on my SCAR I have found the charging handle to be a good thing.

Go Navy
11-27-2011, 8:02 AM
The only real negative on the SCAR 17 is price. I own a SCAR 16. When you field strip one and see the design, it's real good stuff. FN has been in the weapons business in one form or another for a long time, and has been doing semi autos for a long time. I wouldn't worry about the bolt handle. It has advantages that outweigh the initial adjustment everyone makes when firing the rifle for the first time. Also it's easily reversible and both right and left hand shooters run it on either side depending on preferences. Direct gas impingement (AR-10) has some drawbacks in the opinion of many. I don't want one. Others will disagree and I don't want to open up that tiresome old debate. Just be aware of it and make up your own mind, get opinions.

As good as the M16/AR15 platform is, keep in mind it is now a very dated design despite lots of worthy upgrades over the years. The SCAR is a modern design starting with a white sheet and close cooperation with real operators.

Yes, you can get a piston operated version of the AR-10.

Check comparative empty weights on your three choices.

No question the FN FAL is one of the great battle rifles of the 20th century. It was standard issue in way, way more armies, in greater numbers, than the M14 ever was. It is a bigger rifle---longer---, I think, than your other choices if that matters.

While I think the basic M14 is a great rifle, it's heavy, pricey for what it is, an older design (although a good one), and the SOCOM version is cool but somehow doesn't make sense to me given these other alternatives.

a1fabweld
11-27-2011, 9:06 AM
It all depends what you want to do with your rifle. Long range paper punching? SHTF end of the world rifle? Range toy?

I went PTR91 for an all around reliable, inexpensive, & accurate .308 rifle. $900-$1300 depending on options. Plus factory HK mags are $3.

Knife Edge
11-27-2011, 9:47 AM
I'd get the Larue PredatAR in 16". Match barrel made of LW-50, stronger than stainless, hand polished match spec BCG, and CNC throughout. It's US made, accurate, lighter than all three, about $2500, easily found accessories and magazines are not an issue.

putemup
11-27-2011, 11:08 AM
What about instead of a SCAR a Bushmaster / Remington ACR ? Or maybe the FN FNAR ? Something to consider. Hell i'm even looking at a Saiga AK chambered in 7.62 nato.

Bushmaster ACR...NO WAY! LOVE MY SCAR!

Jpach
11-27-2011, 12:59 PM
LMT 308 or Colt M901 when it comes out. You can pre-order the Colt for the stupidly cheap price of $1,892.78 here http://www.hinterlandoutfitters.com/colt-quad-rail-rifle-sp901-vltor-stock-finish-flip-frontrear-wbayonet-birdcage-p-39135.html

I might do it, it kind of seems dumb not to.

tvfreakarms
11-27-2011, 7:38 PM
AR10.
So...can u hook a brotha up with some good prices???:-):-):-)
PM me and we can chat

goodlookin1
11-27-2011, 8:38 PM
SCAR if you don't have any issues spending $1500 more than what an AR-10 can do, or just get an AR-10. I would seriously consider the LMT MWS or the Lwrc REPR over a standard AR-10, but then again you're getting up there in the same price range as a SCAR, so that kind of defeats that purpose.

Personally, I'd go with something familiar between the AR-15 and a .308 rifle. ThT way a lot of the tools and/or parts can cross over. But that's just me ;-)

Sgt. J Beezy
11-27-2011, 9:58 PM
My vote is for either

a) LMT MWS

or

b) LWRC REPR

MrPlink
11-28-2011, 3:47 AM
Repr is a bad mama jama for sure, but more of a dmr. Still on my "must buy" list

louscamaro91
11-28-2011, 8:52 AM
I own a Scar 17 and it's ok.
I prefer my Armalite SASS rifles.
They both have their pro's and cons.

jteamdelo
11-28-2011, 11:44 PM
Thanks everyone for your input i really appreciate all the info, and keep the debate going, im really learning quite a bit!!!

MrPlink
11-28-2011, 11:49 PM
the Colt CM would be more appealing if it wasnt DI
same reason Im not that keen on the LMT MWS
dont get me wrong, I like LMT a lot, but being a piston guy at heart, if Im spending that kinda cash its a feature I must have.

Frankly, the only thing mentioned in this thread that Im a little lukewarm on is the ACR

Ahmad
11-28-2011, 11:52 PM
SCAR is pretty. I heard it's very different. Depends on the price but if you get a good deal I say go for the 17S. If you don't like it I'll take it.

Jpach
11-29-2011, 12:41 AM
the Colt CM would be more appealing if it wasnt DI
same reason Im not that keen on the LMT MWS
dont get me wrong, I like LMT a lot, but being a piston guy at heart, if Im spending that kinda cash its a feature I must have.

Frankly, the only thing mentioned in this thread that Im a little lukewarm on is the ACR

I don't get it.

The LMT won a contract with the British and it was found to be more reliable than the HK-417 and the SCAR-17.

Why would you vote against the LMT if it's more reliable than a piston gun, just because it doesn't have a piston?

MrPlink
11-29-2011, 1:26 AM
I don't get it.

The LMT won a contract with the British and it was found to be more reliable than the HK-417 and the SCAR-17.

Why would you vote against the LMT if it's more reliable than a piston gun, just because it doesn't have a piston?

Do we really want to open up GOV testing debates in this thread?
So are you trying to say since in the Brit test the MWS proved more reliable
all DI systems are more reliable and as such the CM will be too?
In the larger scheme of things that test serves as an anecdote at best

SCAR is pretty. I heard it's very different. Depends on the price but if you get a good deal I say go for the 17S. If you don't like it I'll take it.

Depends on what you mean by "different"

None of its individual features are unique to the rifle itself, its more about the collection of features on one platform.

Hoop
11-29-2011, 9:54 AM
The best all-around platform for a semi 308 right now is the AR. It's a lego gun so you can set it up however you want for whatever purpose you desire.

If you want a designer battle rifle there are several 308's coming out, SCAR/RobArms XCR etc. Just keep in mind if you are in Cali there are length restrictions and some of them have folding stocks which must be pinned to comply with that.

Jpach
11-29-2011, 11:09 AM
Do we really want to open up GOV testing debates in this thread?
So are you trying to say since in the Brit test the MWS proved more reliable
all DI systems are more reliable and as such the CM will be too?
In the larger scheme of things that test serves as an anecdote at best



Depends on what you mean by "different"

None of its individual features are unique to the rifle itself, its more about the collection of features on one platform.

Definitely not, I specifically mentioned the LMT. One can only hope that the sexy Colt will come close.

I guess I just wanted to say that DI doesn't necessarily mean unreliable, nor does piston mean more reliable than a DI.