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View Full Version : Just ruined my M1a Scout


luchador768
11-26-2011, 5:29 PM
I think I'm gonna barf. I took my Scout out today to SBRGC and couldn't load a round in the chamber. I opened the action to find the bore totally rusted. I had fired some surplus ammo three weeks before and cleaned it per usual. Even ran an oiled patch down after. The ammo was from the 80's so I didn't flush it with water or any of the other usual stuff I use in my guns that I shoot corrosive out of. The barrell is beyond repair but the reciever is savageable. This thing is my baby, and I can't believe I dropped the ball like this. $&@"!?!?!&@$"@!!!!!

rojocorsa
11-26-2011, 5:33 PM
Specifically what ammo was it?


Were there any other factors?

Mssr. Eleganté
11-26-2011, 5:34 PM
...I had fired some surplus ammo three weeks before and cleaned it per usual. Even ran an oiled patch down after. The ammo was from the 80's...

Was it this Czech stuff?

http://picturearchive.gunauction.com/9059111500/9099560/czech%20.308%20004.jpg_thumbnail1.jpg

Yugo
11-26-2011, 5:35 PM
live & learn. Sorry for your loss

jtv3062
11-26-2011, 5:36 PM
That sucks bad, the chamber is that pitted? I need to go check my LRB with the heavy kreiger

223556
11-26-2011, 5:38 PM
DAM, thats a big bummer... Can a bore/action really get that bad in just 3 weeks from being shot?

rojocorsa
11-26-2011, 5:39 PM
DAM, thats a big bummer... Can a bore/action really get that bad in just 3 weeks from being shot?

This is what Im wondering. Sounds like the rifle was stored in a humidor or something...

PyroFox79
11-26-2011, 5:41 PM
Wow that must have been some ****ty ammo. I didnt clean my Garand for 2 months after shooting it and there was alot of rust in the bore but a few passes with a barrel brush and patches it was gone and the barrel wasnt pitted. clean the **** out of it see what you get.

toby
11-26-2011, 5:42 PM
never shoot $2 ammo in a $1600 rifle....or any gun for that matter.

luchador768
11-26-2011, 5:42 PM
That's the ammo. I cleaned it with #9, and put it in the safe.

NoHeavyHitter
11-26-2011, 5:42 PM
Sorry to hear this. I nearly did the same thing several years back and learned to re-check guns I've recently fired and cleaned a few days after for any funk that tries to come back. I especially do that when firing any kind of surplus ammo besides Lake City.

Yugo
11-26-2011, 5:42 PM
man im now going to check all my mosins :eek:

problemchild
11-26-2011, 5:43 PM
bummer

Mssr. Eleganté
11-26-2011, 5:43 PM
That's the ammo. I cleaned it with #9, and put it in the safe.

Where did you buy the ammo?

paul0660
11-26-2011, 5:49 PM
It is a fact that #9 does not clean out salt, just like ammonia doesn't. Boiling hot water, and some particular cleaners, does.

The Gleam
11-26-2011, 5:50 PM
I had fired some surplus ammo three weeks before and cleaned it per usual.

Did it really get that bad in just a couple of weeks? Are you sure it's not just a a crusty, barnacle-like reddish haze & surface only? I've never seen corrosive ammo cause unrepairable rotting that fast. The worst I've ever seen per quick-rusting is someone that stored their nicer Remington Model 700 in a closet near a water heater, which developed a steam leak at the upper pipes, and water literally dripped down into the barrels, for about a month.

And that was still salvageable!

luchador768
11-26-2011, 5:54 PM
I'm cleaning it again now. Honestly, 3 weeks. I got the ammo at Cold War Shooter before they went tits up.

rojocorsa
11-26-2011, 5:54 PM
OP, what went down exactly? We want to help you get back on track here. ;)




It's a misconception that Hoppes #9 cleans out the corrosive salts. It used to "back in the day", but the formula was changed somewhere along the way. The modern stuff does not. I witnessed it the "hard" way. Whenever I get a little rust, I just shoot some bullets down that rifle. Can you say fast scrubbing friction?

WDE91
11-26-2011, 5:56 PM
pictures please

X-NewYawker
11-26-2011, 5:57 PM
Bummer. New Barrel. Money solves these problems.

AlpineWeiss
11-26-2011, 6:04 PM
It's a misconception that Hoppes #9 cleans out the corrosive salts. It used to "back in the day", but the formula was changed somewhere along the way. The modern stuff does not. I witnessed it the "hard" way. Whenever I get a little rust, I just shoot some bullets down that rifle. Can you say fast scrubbing friction?

"Removes corrosive primer fouling and residue"

Says it right on the front of my bottle of Hoppes #9 I bought a year ago. Is it a misconception or false advertising?

jtv3062
11-26-2011, 6:06 PM
Bummer. New Barrel. Money solves these problems.

It probly in the gas cylinder too. I have to go check my k98 now.

InGrAM
11-26-2011, 6:09 PM
I had the same thing happen to my NHM-91, the gas piston/tube were rusted shut together. I just hit the charging handle with a hammer until it broke free, cleaned it really well, got all of the rust off of it and it works just like before. No worries, just get the rust off and don't do it again.

SmokingSam
11-26-2011, 6:09 PM
Surplus ammo, IMHO, must always be treated as corrosive unless you know 100% it ain't.

Try the Bench rest or any corrosive specific cleaner, then #9 and see if it cleans it up.

Pete1979
11-26-2011, 6:13 PM
Scrub it out really good before you throw in the towel. When we were teenagers, we used plenty of old corrosive ammo in my mosins and my vz24, I used to neglect them pretty bad and never had one not clean up. I pulled my M44 off the wall a couple years ago, blew the dust off and found a science project growing in the barrel. After a good 1/2 hour session with a brush and a bunch of patches, it cleaned right up. Clean the chamber real good then fire a couple of rounds and reassess the situation.

luckystrike
11-26-2011, 6:23 PM
That is terrible. And people say there is nothing wrong with shooting corrosive ammo.

luchador768
11-26-2011, 6:26 PM
I'm getting a Lot of rust out with the bore brush and chamber brush.

ElvenSoul
11-26-2011, 6:29 PM
You may be able to salvage some of your rifle. Get her to a gunsmith asap!

ElvenSoul
11-26-2011, 6:29 PM
Chrome lining should of protected most of it!

Yugo
11-26-2011, 6:31 PM
I just checked all the mosins and sure enough one of them was DIRTY ......

natrab
11-26-2011, 6:37 PM
I learned the same lesson recently with my old mosin (my first firearm!) that had been sitting in the closet for a year without being fired. Barrel was completely occluded with rust. After many passes and cleaning, it doesn't actually appear to be very damaged and I didn't notice any serious pitting in the bore.

Don't give up yet!

luchador768
11-26-2011, 6:46 PM
The chamber isn't pitted and the lands look pretty good, there is still a bunch of rust in the grooves. The piston and gas tube are as spotless as when I put it away last time.


Look for my add in the For Sale section.

200 rounds of mostly non corrosive commie .308 ammo.

jtv3062
11-26-2011, 6:52 PM
Good news! On the rifle good luck selling that ammo now.

bsg
11-26-2011, 6:55 PM
let's hope for the best.

-madmax-
11-26-2011, 6:56 PM
I shoot corrosive ammo all the time...I don't clean after every shoot...but I have some moisture absorbing pads in my safe... I had the issue before but since I use those pads it never happened again...

That said...I would still try to clean this...friend of mine gave me his k98 and told me it rusted beyond repair...I used a metal brush and cleaned that sucker every day for a month till I got it clean...no rust left...believe it or not this baby shoots really nice...

atomboy
11-26-2011, 7:02 PM
You may want to purchase a chamber plug (available from Sinclair) and fill the barrel with solvent or oil.

jtv3062
11-26-2011, 7:05 PM
He'll need to plug the gas port also

a1c
11-26-2011, 7:09 PM
Keep in mind a lot of corrosive ammo was shot through military rifles that couldn't be cleaned everyday. At some point they got cleaned up in the arsenal and restored to great condition. You may be able to make it happen as well. Start cleaning.

Dhena81
11-26-2011, 7:13 PM
He'll need to plug the gas port also

Unless I'm mistaken you can close the gas port right?

jtv3062
11-26-2011, 7:21 PM
Unless I'm mistaken you can close the gas port right?
It won't be liquid tight. The gas block only needs to block enough gas to keep the action from cycling. Looking at both of my rifles I got gas leakage at the gas cylinder and barrel.

luchador768
11-26-2011, 7:31 PM
The bore and barrel look like my Korean refurb Garand. The Sxout never was a safe queen, I guess now it just has a bit more character. I'll hit it again in the morning.

MrPlink
11-26-2011, 7:58 PM
That is terrible. And people say there is nothing wrong with shooting corrosive ammo.

and there isnt, if you make sure it does not rust your gun!

rojocorsa
11-26-2011, 8:56 PM
"Removes corrosive primer fouling and residue"

Says it right on the front of my bottle of Hoppes #9 I bought a year ago. Is it a misconception or false advertising?

Well, that wasn't the case when we shot this Mauser with Yugo ammo (in fact it was our very first time shooting corrossive, so we had no idea.) We proceeded with Hoppes and there was rust a week later.

So personally, I do not use Hoppes to remove corrosive salts. Water hasn't failed me ever since.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/26895_119577471386819_100000037005179_293070_12830 58_n.jpg

Donk310
11-27-2011, 5:04 AM
Very interesting. I've let my firearms sit for months at a time before I can get around to cleaning them. They have always been fine. But when I shoot the corrosive crap from my AK, I detail it right away because I am afraid of something like that happening. Only three weeks huh?

Go Navy
11-27-2011, 6:40 AM
I wonder if this whole thing has something to do with metallurgy. Maybe the steel in some of these barrels is a compound that is much more prone to oxidation?

We're not sitting in Florida, most of us. This is essentially a low humidity climate, even in N. Calif. except when a front passes through.

Another thought: could there be something wrong with the bore brush metal itself in this case? Could it be depositing iron particles in the bore?

That said, I don't shoot cheap imported ammo. I once had a perfectly good HK 9mm lock up because the cheap Russian ammo was out of spec with its dimensions. The pistol was fine once we got the jam cleared. I gave away the ammo to someone who had a looser pistol to shoot it in. But this story of rusting gives me a second reason to avoid imported ammo.

What is the brand(s) that is coming in from Mexico?

SAR_boats
11-27-2011, 6:46 AM
man im now going to check all my mosins :eek:

now thats funny.

17+1
11-27-2011, 8:40 AM
I doubt it's totally ruined. I've never screwed up this bad but if I did, I'd run some rust remover down it, some water to rinse any salts left and then clean as usual.

Shoot it and see how it groups before giving up on it.

slo5oh
11-27-2011, 8:50 AM
Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I see everyone saying they're cleaning with hoppes #9 and putting their rifles away.
Does no one follow up with some sort of oil?

#9 is just the solvent that would/should clean everything... the OIL is what will prevent rust.

glockman19
11-27-2011, 9:00 AM
Nothing is damaged beyond repair.
Clean the barrel with hopps and a brass or steel brush...follow with a clean cloth patch with hopps...
Repeat until cloth patches come out clean.
Finally, run a cloth patch soaked in oil.
Learn how to properly clean and dismantle your rifle and this won't be an issue.

CK_32
11-27-2011, 11:14 AM
never shoot $2 ammo in a $1600 rifle....or any gun for that matter.

A men! :patriot:

mreed
11-27-2011, 11:18 AM
pics or it didnt happen...?

luchador768
11-27-2011, 1:40 PM
I live by the bay in San Diego, so it's pretty humid all the time. And I didn't take any pics because I didn't really need to identify the problem, it was obviously rust. I cleaned it again today and got the bulk of the rust out. The chamber is pretty good and the bore is much better. I'll take it out this week and see how it groups. The gas bleed hole has some rust, but no errosion. I don't see any pits in the chamber or bore. The lands are bright, but te groves are still a bit fouled. I'll try a few more passes with the stainless brush later. The thing thatbaffles me is the muzzle brake and gas tube have zero rust, same with the bolt face.

jtv3062
11-27-2011, 1:58 PM
I know the gas cylinder is stainless.

LRShooter
11-27-2011, 2:48 PM
The chamber isn't pitted and the lands look pretty good, there is still a bunch of rust in the grooves. The piston and gas tube are as spotless as when I put it away last time.


Look for my add in the For Sale section.

200 rounds of mostly non corrosive commie .308 ammo.

Are you sure there isn't some copper build up as well?

luchador768
11-27-2011, 3:48 PM
I was getting brown and green/ blue patches.

Diabolus
11-27-2011, 4:03 PM
I was getting brown and green/ blue patches.

Did a smurf explode in your bbl?

zfields
11-27-2011, 4:12 PM
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-eV627MKMsLg/TtLfvUSyJGI/AAAAAAAAA4I/LspkzZcrqf4/s640/MyFunlink-Picdump-191-42.jpg

A smurf exploded somewhere.

308fan
11-27-2011, 4:50 PM
Man, I think i just barfed for you! Sorry to hear about that.

LRShooter
11-27-2011, 4:53 PM
I was getting brown and green/ blue patches.

Green and blue is copper. If you haven't, try using a copper like Barnes CR-10 or the stuff from Shooter's Choice.

DannyInSoCal
11-27-2011, 5:09 PM
Boiling hot solution of 1/2 water 1/2 ammonia based window cleaner poured down the barrel / bolt after EVERY trip is cheap insurance....

Lone_Gunman
11-27-2011, 5:23 PM
I've always just used boiling water. It heats the metal so that any moisture left evaporates quickly, and then clean as normal once it's cool enough to touch.

hcbr
11-27-2011, 5:47 PM
yikes

Fjold
11-27-2011, 5:54 PM
Lesson learned; don't shoot crap ammo.

Gem1950
11-27-2011, 6:36 PM
Try using KANO KROIL

captbilly
11-27-2011, 6:38 PM
Don't use corrosive primer ammo..... Ok, if a semi full of corrosive ammo drops 100,000 rounds in your front yard, sell it.... Ok ok, if you are being attacked by zombies and the only ammo you can get is corrosive, then do not forget to clean everything with warm water. That's right, water. Not solvents, not bore cleaner, only water or other polar solvents are the only thing that will dissolve the salts that are left in the bore and gas system.

GW
11-27-2011, 9:46 PM
Sellier & Belloit 80's production 7.62x51 with corrosive primers. Sportsman's Guide has been pushing this ammo for 2 years.
and evidently it has very soft copper jacketing as well.

joefreas
11-27-2011, 10:04 PM
Try a stainless steel bore brush and bore tech eliminator. I have to scrub my 50 caliber rifles for over an hour to get all the gunk from the grooves but they always come clean, eventually.

I have been shooting all types of ammo for over 20 years and have never seen a bore ruined by bad ammo.

Sicarius
11-28-2011, 11:07 AM
Don't give up on the barrel yet. Give it a good scrubbing and if that doesn't work, use a drill with a brush at the end as a last resort. At that point, you have nothing to loose.
Kevin

blockfort
11-28-2011, 11:19 AM
I'm new to this. Why would shooting a certain type of ammo do that to a chamber and barrel?

luchador768
11-28-2011, 11:40 AM
Corrosive salts in the primer.

Calplinker
11-28-2011, 11:48 AM
I'm new to this. Why would shooting a certain type of ammo do that to a chamber and barrel?

"Corrosive" primers leave behind microscopic deposits of calcium chloride (same thing as salt substitute).

Just like real salt, calcium chloride is hydroscopic. In other words, it attracts moisture. Even in dry air conditions, water droplets will form inside the barrel and everywhere else the deposits are left behind, such as the action, outside of the barrel around the crown, gas system, etc.

If you don't clean this off quickly, as in the same day you were out shooting, rust will form on the gun.

I shoot corrosive all the time and just carefully clean the guns after every outing. 1000's of rounds with no problems.

If you're pressed for time, at least run 2-3 patches through the barrel finishing off with oil or CLP on the last one.

luchador768
11-28-2011, 11:57 AM
The problem is I didn't know this ammo was corrosive. I would have avoided this issue and cleaned it properly ie: hot water etc. I shoot a lot of corrosive out of my tantal and have never had an issue because I knew it was corrosive ammo and cleaned it accordingly.

Scott Connors
11-28-2011, 11:58 AM
Bummer. New Barrel. Money solves these problems.

Criterion makes a chrome-lined barrel.

Also, Shooter's Choice does neutralize corrosive salts.

blockfort
11-28-2011, 12:27 PM
How can one tell if their ammo is corrosive?

dotalchemy
11-28-2011, 1:41 PM
Same thing happened with my Mosin a few weeks ago. Shot it, cleaned it, put it away, took it out and could barely see up the barrel.

Shot it anyway and it's sparkly again.

<3 Russians :)

tujungatoes
11-28-2011, 2:32 PM
That is terrible. And people say there is nothing wrong with shooting corrosive ammo.

There isn't anything wrong with shooting corrosive. You just have to properly clean your rifle afterwards. Unfortunately the OP didn't, but I'd be willing to bet with a little more elbow grease his rifle will clean up perfectly. It'll be like nothing ever happened.

*edit* to clear up a few thing posted before me. You can't "neutralize" corrosive salts. It's f**kin salt. Salt is water soluble. You just wash it out.

To determine wether your ammo is corrosive you can consult the interwebs. A google search with your headstamp info will usually yeild results. Or you can just assume all surplus ammo may be corrosive and clean accordingly.

chead
11-28-2011, 2:47 PM
DAM, thats a big bummer... Can a bore/action really get that bad in just 3 weeks from being shot?

Absolutely, it can start rusting within hours, and be pretty gnarly the next day depending on your climate.

Bonedeval
11-28-2011, 3:55 PM
Well, that wasn't the case when we shot this Mauser with Yugo ammo (in fact it was our very first time shooting corrossive, so we had no idea.) We proceeded with Hoppes and there was rust a week later.

So personally, I do not use Hoppes to remove corrosive salts. Water hasn't failed me ever since.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/26895_119577471386819_100000037005179_293070_12830 58_n.jpg

Is that at Laguna Seca?

RAMCHARGER
11-28-2011, 4:34 PM
WAIT! Cold War Shotters Closed??

easy
11-28-2011, 7:10 PM
Or you can just assume all surplus ammo may be corrosive and clean accordingly.

This is the way to go, boiling hot water. I take a small thermos bottle to range with me (used targets make good funnels). Then clean and oil as normal. Ammonia does nothing for the corrosive salts. It does work on copper fouling and deposits.

scotthmt
11-28-2011, 7:29 PM
i shot 400rounds of corrosive 5.45 through my ak74 and i scrubbed the bore with hoppes and oiled everything up nicely and 4 days later i removed the muzzle break and there was rust on the end of the barrel and a little in the ring lands. So now i pour a crapload of ammonia all over the gun after shooting, then i dump boiling hot water on it, then i brake clean it, then i scrub the gun down, and then over-oil it with wd40. Seems to work, i just hate cleaning an AK this much, doesn't feel right.

tujungatoes
11-28-2011, 7:51 PM
Save time and nose hairs scott. Just use water. The ammonia doesn't do sh*t. If it did, then hoppe's alone would be enough. One of the ingredients is ammonia after all.

bighead
11-28-2011, 10:42 PM
I've rusted shut a 5.45 upper with corrosive ammo.It's not that big if a deal clean it and move on.It's a rifle not a Ferarri.

PsychGuy274
11-29-2011, 12:00 AM
This is what Im wondering. Sounds like the rifle was stored in a humidor or something...

I had a Mosin barrel flash rust in about three hours after shooting corrosive ammo. No I bring water bottles and pour them down the barrel before I leave the range and then clean like normal when I get home.

fusionstar
11-29-2011, 9:13 AM
Get a steel brush and get it all out, not like you can do any more damage to it. It cant be worse than all the other thousands of pitted WWII rifles out there being shot safely.

MongooseV8
11-29-2011, 9:25 AM
Meh, couple passes with a bore snake usually turns a "rusted" barrel into a healthy barrel again. I've bought several rifles super cheap cause the bores were "too rusty to shoot" only to clean them up in about 12 seconds.

Glad you got yours clean again too.

Flying Sig
11-29-2011, 11:37 AM
Try this stuff. It works GREAT. You can get it at Harbor Freight


http://youtu.be/wmYlT0FN3Cc

filric48
11-29-2011, 3:04 PM
That scared the hell out of me, just checked the Mosins and the SKS I shoot corrosive in them. I ran a patch through them all is good. I use Windex to start with about 5 to 8 patches dry it out then Bore Scrubber or #9 Bore Snake or brush maybe JB Bore Brite then oil good to go, I still had to check. Sorry to hear about your Bore.
It is allot of work but it works

joefrank64k
11-29-2011, 3:15 PM
Just follow Dennis Kroh's advice for cleaning corrosive, easy as pie! :D:

http://www.empirearms.com/clean.htm

And nothing is beyond repair with electrolysis! :D

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=476906

No need to pass up great deals on cheap surplus ammo!!!

luchador768
11-29-2011, 3:20 PM
After the last cleaning session, I would say it's at 95%. No too bad for a 11 year old gun. Thanks for all the helpful advice, and hand holding.
Peter

luchador768
11-29-2011, 4:40 PM
After the last cleaning session, I would say it's at 95%. No too bad for a 11 year old gun. Thanks for all the helpful advice, and hand holding.
Peter

Q
11-29-2011, 6:44 PM
My Condolences.

kilngruv
12-05-2011, 6:00 PM
"SIMPLE GREEN" SPRAY MY MAN!!! I used it in my Ak after shooting some Yugoslavian Surplus...really nice brass cases tho, and first time i underestimated "corrosives" power and a week later saw green stuff like lady liberty color growin in the gas bloc, nothing a real clean job couldnt get rid of and the barrel is a chrome lined but last week I took it out to a new indoor range here in NJ and came home, pumped Simple Green through it and the BLACK foamy discharge that poured out that barrel was impressive just from pure Simple Green liquid flow. No swabs or patches yet...then some blazing hot water from the sink squirter. I shined a class2 LED Streamlight down that bore and it looked like it didnt even need to be cleaned any further. (of course i didnt leave it at that) Dried it off a patch through it a bore snake and flushed the gas block with a little Remington spray oil. DONE! shes sweet

Arnelcheeze
12-05-2011, 6:28 PM
man im now going to check all my mosins :eek:

i better go check mine, im worried now!

h0use
12-05-2011, 6:31 PM
Dang that sucks =[

Retzius
12-05-2011, 9:29 PM
Wield..
I shoot any kind of crap ammo out of my AK (SLR95) including ancient soviet corrosive crap and it looks fine.

Fishslayer
12-05-2011, 11:29 PM
Made me look!:eek:

Ran about 50 rounds of that Yugo milsurp brass through my new-to-me Norinco SKS a couple weeks ago. I just got done running patches & pipe cleaners in every hole & orifice. Clean as a whistle. :)

I will say I scrub the pazizzle out of any gun I'm cleaning. The gas system gets scrubbed with nylon bottle brushes. I don't stop till a wet patch or pipe cleaner comes back white. That's how the Gunny & GMG1 taught me how to do it. ;)
I also leave what most would probably call "too much" oil on it for storage.

Didn't find any rust on my Mini-30 either. But then I wasn't really expecting to... ;)

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn215/THE_Fishslayer/Mini301.jpg

luchador768
12-06-2011, 8:40 AM
The last thing I tried was an overnight soak with Kroil. Then a good scrub with a stainless brush. It's pretty much as good as new. I can't believe all that rust came out, it really looked bad at first. I still don't see any pits, I think I got off pretty lucky.

bsg
12-06-2011, 10:25 AM
The last thing I tried was an overnight soak with Kroil. Then a good scrub with a stainless brush. It's pretty much as good as new. I can't believe all that rust came out, it really looked bad at first. I still don't see any pits, I think I got off pretty lucky.


great....

Tankhatch
12-06-2011, 3:25 PM
The US military bore cleaner, 1950's issue or earlier issue, was made to handle the removal of those salts. Because, all US military 30-06 ammo, made before 1955 (I think) can be considered as being corrosive primed. The only US military ammo, never made with corrosive primers, was the 30 carbine. I also believe all the US military .308 and .223 are non-corrosive primed, as they were manufactured after non-corrosive primers were available.

A search on the internet, can give you better dates of changes by each of the US military ammo makers, from corrosive primed and non-corrosive primed.

Kodachrome
12-06-2011, 6:23 PM
Try using Kroil or BullFrog lubricant & rust blocker. Both have worked well for me cleaning use some used rusty firearms that I've bought.