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View Full Version : More OLL *out of the box* thinking/inspiration (Stripper Clips/Magazine ideas) *pics*


JPglee1
02-27-2007, 8:23 AM
So I got to thinking some more (always dangerous, lol) about how we can more easily load our OLL type rifles...

Why not just copy the Johnson 1941 Autoloading rifle magazine/stripper setup. Would be pretty *easy* (relative term here) to make a lower receiver that had an integral drum magazine like the Johnson, or at least maybe a horizontal box magazine? We're limited to only 10 rds and a double stack short-length 10rd box magazine is pretty compact...

http://world.guns.ru/rifle/rfl20-e.htm

http://i18.tinypic.com/48ejsl2.jpg
http://i19.tinypic.com/2s10kf7.jpg

Remember, mags dont have to go "straight" into the gun either... Look up an Abakan AN-94 rifle on google and look how its mag works (goes into the receiver at about a 20* angle to the left, uses AK74 mags) You could modify the AK design to use mags that inserted on a slant very easily, which would make the need for a curved stripper redundant..

ABAKAN AN-94 Link #1 (http://www.military.com/soldiertech/0,14632,Soldiertech_AN94,,00.html)

ABAKAN AN-94 #2 (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as08-e.htm)

http://www.enemyforces.com/firearms/abakan.jpg
Abakan AN-94 side profile

Its hard to see in the pictures but the magazine doesn't stick out perpindicular to the bottom of the receiver, its coming out at an angle...

Just something to think about.

How about an AR-15 upper that has a permanent sideways magazine...as long as the bolt head could push the rounds out of the box into the chamber, it would work just fine (and we see them on .50BMG uppers so I know the concept is sound) Use an OLL lower with a filler plug locked into the magazine well, or a single shot-type OLL lower...

http://www.ssgknives.com/50upper.jpg

Sideways .50BMG upper w/box magazine... apply same idea to .223 upper...

JPglee1
02-27-2007, 8:31 AM
http://www.safetyharborfirearms.com/UltraMag_50/DSC01537.JPG
Another shot of the .50BMG upper for AR w/sideways magazine


Also you might wanna look at the .30-40 Krag Jorgensen rifle for inspiration as well, I own a carbine Krag and the magazine system works very well. A similar click-on (attachable?) magazine like this *should* be possible to make for just about any gun...just add a trap door to our levered magazines..pull the follower down, open trapdoor on side, dump in ammo, let go of trapdoor/lever and fire rifle...

Anyway here's some info on the Krag rifles (also called .30-40 Krag or Krag Jorgensen)

http://i15.tinypic.com/2iqom5h.png

Krag Jorgensen Info Link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krag-J%C3%B8rgensen)


Whatcha think guys?? I'm thinking we could combine the levered magazines that we are already making, with a spring loaded trapdoor on the side w/a cutout for cartridges (simple trap door that covers the cutout to keep cartridges in)

Pull down the lever, make a slot in the mag for the lever to catch (like the safety/charging handle feature on the STEN SMG) Then once the follower is depressed and held back, open the trapdoor, drop rounds into it and close it, release follower and go back to shooting... Maybe have a stripper clip guide on the outside of the side of the mag so when you depress the follower you could just dump 10rds thru the hole real quick and not really need a "trapdoor" You could have the follower cover the loading hole somehow maybe.

Anyway just some early morning rambling thoughts from yer crazy pal JP...whatcha think??




J

mltrading
02-27-2007, 8:35 AM
Nice brain food! :D

megavolt121
02-27-2007, 10:53 AM
Why not device a way to put on a swing away magazine similar to Barrett's design?

PanzerAce
02-27-2007, 10:55 AM
Why not device a way to put on a swing away magazine similar to Barrett's design?


I think this was looked at in the past, but the dynamics of how the AR mag is retained, plus the physical demensions makes that impossible.

Is there any reason why you could not make an attachment for a MGI lower that is essnetially a johnson mag?

JPglee1
02-27-2007, 11:02 AM
Is there any reason why you could not make an attachment for a MGI lower that is essnetially a johnson mag?

That was my idea, basically.

Just takes $$ to develop it, but with Solid Modeling 3D drafting, it shouldn't take nearly as long... The problem is that the patent drawings are for a .30-06 cartridge... Actually that could be an advantage as a 10rd rotary magazine would be a lot smaller for a .223 and might not add much to the weight of the rifle...

The other option would be to copy the Ruger 10/22 magazine system and scale it up for .223...

I was hoping I might be able to find a Johnson magazine assembly but Ive been looking for one for over 2 years and never found any HINT of one around... That would be optimal to have access to a Johnson 1941 magazine for a couple weeks to use for R&D.

I still think it would be much cheaper and easier to just use a sideways 10rd mag on a dedicated upper for 2 reasons

1) You dont gotta modify the lower so it works with ANY AR lower including FAB-10

2) ANYONE can make/sell them as they aren't a "FIREARM" where the lower receiver IS... This is important because its pretty hard to get an 07/FFL and you'd prolly pay a pretty penny to involve someone WITH an 07/FFL as a partner...


Someone with a true 10rd magazine should do a quickie mockup picture for me (I only have 10/20 bushie mags)

Take a 10rd magazine, center the feed lips on the top of the receiver (on a flat top preferable) and center it front to back where the original mag goes. Let the floor plate stick out horizontal to the left side... Take a pic from the top and post it :D

I bet it will only protrude 2" or so, not much to deal with... prolly 1/3 of it would be inside the upper receiver (to interface the feedlips w/the bolt)

JP

Man someone get me a job doing this stuff somewhere... Imagine how much cool stuff I could make if I had access to CNC machines and $$$ to play :D :cool:

megavolt121
02-27-2007, 11:03 AM
I think this was looked at in the past, but the dynamics of how the AR mag is retained, plus the physical demensions makes that impossible.




I have a few ideas of how to make this happen if anyone's interested.

JPglee1
02-27-2007, 11:07 AM
Another idea I've had is to attach the magazine permanent to the mag well via a pivot at the front and back, using corresponding slots in the magazine well.

You would cut the right side of the magazine well out completely so the magazine could drop down 1/2" and then tilt to the side to be loaded.

You would retain the original magazine catch. To reload you would push the button which would release the mag. It would drop 1/2" or so on its guide pivots/slot at which point it would be clear of the top of the magwell on the right (and the bottom of the left side would get trimmed away) and could pivoted over to be reloaded. If you attached the magazine with allen head screws at the pivot points you could revert back to normal useage (albeit it would be a bit weird looking)

Once filled with ammo you would tilt the mag back flush to the left side of the mag well and slide it up 1/2" to re-engage the magazine catch.

With the AK you could just ditch the front mag catch/lip on the mag and use a pivot lever like the Barret 50 setup. To reload, swing the mag down, load it and then push it back up. The only problem with this is you'd need to figure out how to attach the pivot point to the trunnion. I'd probably just use a screw w/a nut welded on the bottom of the receiver, or maybe make a pivot point that slips between the trunnion and gets riveted in place (narrow the trunnion slightly to compensate for added material)

Man I got ideas for days :P


J

JPN6336
02-27-2007, 11:18 AM
I don't remember but when it was posted but I still like the idea of the front loading magazines. There is a company already making 30 round magazines wherein the front slides down for easy loading. If we could find some way to block those magazines so that it would only allow 10 rounds to be loaded below the magazine well.