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View Full Version : Testing interest...mail order trigger jobs desired?


JPglee1
02-26-2007, 11:25 AM
Hey guys!

In the quest to offer as many products for California shooters as possible, Im curious if you guys would be interested in "mail order trigger jobs"

Basically, we would take your fire control group (AK, AR, SKS, FAL) and smooth it up with some basic stone-work (no changes on sear angles just smoothing) modify your hammer/disconnector to provide crisp release and provide lighter weight WOLFF or similar springs.

The other option would be to have already modified FCGs in stock and we could offer them on a "trade-in" basis.

Ive done this on SKS, AK, FAL and AR so Im familiar with the FCGs of those models. I can also do it on a Makarov but you'd need to be able to disassemble it to get the parts to me (dont have an FFL yet)

Pricing would be real reasonable, probably $25.00 for the actual work, plus whatever the cost is on the springs. SKS would be a little more as it takes a couple minutes to dissassemble/assemble the fire control group, compared to other models, but it also has one of the most dramatic results as well...

Of course all would be checked for proper function on our own guns before shipping, and would include a satisfaction guarantee.

Is there any call for these kind of services?


JP

Fjold
02-26-2007, 11:44 AM
Possibly, would you do the work on single stage and double stage triggers?

JPglee1
02-26-2007, 12:01 PM
Possibly, would you do the work on single stage and double stage triggers?

I dont see why not, I havent done a 2 stage but I understand how they work and as I said initially, no engagement angles would be changed.

I dont have a tacticool trigger pull scale but I'd guess it drops about 2-3 pounds of pull but more importantly it makes for a cleaner break.

If someone wanted to get anal and pay for the time I could go all out and weld up the hammer/disco/trigger and re-shape it so it has minimal uptake and let off.

Basically, (on an AK) you weld a little to the bottom of the trigger so the trigger doesnt have as much travel distance to move, then you adjust the disco and hammer accordingly so they still catch/release correctly, while doing so with as little overtravel as possible.

The original design has a lot of "slop" to allow for tolerance differences in production, the AK especially can be tightened up a lot, however I wouldn't be doing all that work for $25.00, more like $75.00 to do a full on "match" trigger job.

I did it on my 9mm, I havent posted pics cuz there's nothing to see really, its very minor welding and reshaping but its time consuming.

Makes for good bump firing tho, having only 1/8" trigger travel, lol :D :eek:

Ill probably offer to do 2-3 for free and let the owners of the parts speak to the board with their opinion of its usefulness.

Anyone wanna volunteer? lol

wildcard
02-26-2007, 12:07 PM
I personally don't see and significant benefit to stoning/ polishing a standard trigger regardless of price. The standard trigger is what it is and any benefit would be marginal. If somebody wanted a different trigger, I think it would be in their best interest to buy a trigger designed within certain specifications for a purpose. I guess i'm a all or nothing kinda guy.

I'm not saying stoning/ polishing has no benefit.. it just isn't going to do too much for the standard trigger. Then again.. combined with the proper springs, there may be some benefit.

I of course haven't witnessed your work so my opinion is just speculation based on my past experience with stoning/ polishing on other firearms. But for $25 out of my wallet, I'd let you prove me wrong :)

Jason

JPglee1
02-26-2007, 12:17 PM
I'm not saying stoning/ polishing has no benefit.. it just isn't going to do too much for the standard trigger. Then again.. combined with the proper springs, there may be some benefit.


Well, as you said with the proper springs, it makes a noticeable difference.

I did it on my M77 Ruger 7mmRemMag and it made a significant difference in my ability to stay on paper at 500+ yards (it was a hunting rifle, 3 shots and let it cool down)

On the M77 I cut the spring 3-4 coils, stretched it back out and then stoned the engagement surfaces at the striker and trigger and it made a BIG difference.

As I also said above, if you take the time to actually FIT the trigger group you can cut the overtravel/uptake in 1/2 or more (especially on the AK)

Like I said, I'll offer a couple freebies for any willing victims ;)


JP

thefinger
02-26-2007, 12:22 PM
$25 seems very reasonable for the service you're talking about. I'd be interested in sending a trigger group or two to you if you started offering your srevices.

Jicko
02-26-2007, 12:30 PM
What's your profolio and references? (Have you post on ar15.com or have you done jobs for those guys?)

There are, of course, interest.... I had mine done by John Holliger @ WOP/White Oak Precision and WOA/White Oak Armament
http://www.whiteoakprecision.com

So, will it be similar service?



Hey guys!

In the quest to offer as many products for California shooters as possible, Im curious if you guys would be interested in "mail order trigger jobs"

Basically, we would take your fire control group (AK, AR, SKS, FAL) and smooth it up with some basic stone-work (no changes on sear angles just smoothing) modify your hammer/disconnector to provide crisp release and provide lighter weight WOLFF or similar springs.

The other option would be to have already modified FCGs in stock and we could offer them on a "trade-in" basis.

Ive done this on SKS, AK, FAL and AR so Im familiar with the FCGs of those models. I can also do it on a Makarov but you'd need to be able to disassemble it to get the parts to me (dont have an FFL yet)

Pricing would be real reasonable, probably $25.00 for the actual work, plus whatever the cost is on the springs. SKS would be a little more as it takes a couple minutes to dissassemble/assemble the fire control group, compared to other models, but it also has one of the most dramatic results as well...

Of course all would be checked for proper function on our own guns before shipping, and would include a satisfaction guarantee.

Is there any call for these kind of services?


JP

rkt88edmo
02-26-2007, 12:34 PM
I personally don't see and significant benefit to stoning/ polishing a standard trigger regardless of price. The standard trigger is what it is and any benefit would be marginal. ...I guess i'm a all or nothing kinda guy.

I'd have to disagree, even a stock AR trigger can be greatly improved (from gritty and creepy to fairly smooth and clean) with a little time and energy. So like you said, it depends on whether you consider going from "yuck" to "decent" significant. If "wow" or "match grade" is your only acceptable goal, then you are probably right.

wildcard
02-26-2007, 12:37 PM
I don't have a uber fancy trigger gauge (only the analog RCBS) or the ability to promise a timely live fire review so I won't ask you to waste one of the freebies on me. Plus you'd probably want it installed on an AR with magnified optics to get a better measure of any change in resultant accuracy. But count me in. It can't hurt assuming/ knowing that you're competent, and no sear or trigger angles are changed. I'll write up an objective review. Besides.. getting it free may compromise my objectivity :) Let me know if we have a deal.

Jason

JPglee1
02-26-2007, 12:37 PM
What's your profolio and references? (Have you post on ar15.com or have you done jobs for those guys?)

There are, of course, interest.... I had mine done by John @ WOP/White Oak Precision and WOA/White Oak Armament
http://www.whiteoakprecision.com

So, will it be similar service?

My portfolio and references? sorry that made me laugh. I know what you're asking for but Im not a famous gun smith or anything.

Like I said, if anyone wants to get a freeby done, I'll do a couple free and let those people tell the board if its any good or not.

I look at the WOA website, they don't specify (that I could see) what constitutes their trigger job for $120.00, so I can't be sure how comparable it would be.

Basically like I said, it would be a good cleanup/smoothing and installing of the disconnector spring (on AKs) along with including lighter weight springs (at actual cost, no markup, can also just do the work w/no springs so customer can get the springs they want)

I don't claim to be offering 2 stage adjustable tacticool drop in triggers or anything, just a good basic stoning and lighter springs.

I am hoping to help Joe Blow Shooter who goes plinking but doesn't own any tools or doesn't know how to do basic smithing work.

The AR-15 has a pretty decent OEM trigger setup, the guys with SKS, FAL and AK would benefit the most, altho some help can be had on the AR by clipping a leg off the hammer spring and doing a basic stoning, you can also lighten the hammer with a couple holes to decrease lock-time. On AKs that are single hook I take the whole other hook off the hammer to lighten the hammer up a little.

As far as my "portfolio" and references, I would just let my work speak for itself. Like I said, someone volunteer to send me a spare AK FCG you got laying around and I'll do it for cost of shipping.


JP

bonjing
02-26-2007, 12:43 PM
JP,

What's your turn around time and what parts do you need?

leelaw
02-26-2007, 12:45 PM
Freebies? I've got some FCGs I could send for freebie work and evaluation :D

JPglee1
02-26-2007, 12:45 PM
JP,

What's your turn around time and what parts do you need?

Turn around time 1-2 days on AK, SKS or AR-15, about a week on the FAL (I dont have any FAL lowers handy, they are all at my pals house) and I would need the hammer, trigger, disconnector...

if you want me to lighten the springs then include them as well. I will lighten the disconnector spring and clip a leg off the hammer spring to lighten the trigger (hammer still retains all spring energy, just less is put onto the trigger)

What rifle would you be interested in?

J

Jicko
02-26-2007, 12:46 PM
Sorry if i had made it sound brunt...

WOA's $120 is actually the RRA 2-stage trigger + tuning .... vs you just buy a RRA 2-stage trigger for $95ish... so... the tuning fee is about $25... John is also willing to tune yours if you send him yours.... he is particularly good with RRA 2-stage (just making it *even* better)

JP, I was just trying to figure out what kind of service are you trying to provide for ARs (or you are just not?)... since the stock AR-trigger left a LOT to be desire... it is actually quite crappy as stock... yet... if stoning it a little too much can grind off the harden surface and basically ruin the trigger... will you provide springs replacement? (I do have a couple of AR stock triggers lying around... if u want to play around with it and let your work speak for itself...)

So, you are actually specializing on AK-triggers then?

Charliegone
02-26-2007, 12:49 PM
JP, I was wondering if you could do this for Saigas?

JPglee1
02-26-2007, 12:55 PM
JP, I was just trying to figure out what kind of service are you trying to provide for ARs (or you are just not?)... since the stock AR-trigger left a LOT to be desire...

So, you are actually specializing on AK-triggers then?

No offense taken mate :)

I only "specialize" with AKs cuz they're my favorite and Ive got tons of time on them, but Ive also owned a FAL/AR/SKS, etc.

Like I said, I would keep it to FAL, AR, AK, SKS...I have no idea how to do the job on an HK, with the roller sear do-hickey.

As for over stoning and ruining the engagement surface...Id need to take off at least .004-.005" of material if its just surface hardened, which is a lot of metal. We're talking taking off .0005-.001" or so, if that.

The goal isn't to remove metal, the goal is to polish and smooth the metal that is there already. Removing too much would actually make the trigger feel worse as it would result in more uptake (creep)



As for SAIGA, yes I could do it on a SAIGA just as easy as on an AK, same FCG basically (assuming you mean .308 SAIGA) On the 762x39 SAIGA with the pivot axle thats rivited in, theres really no way to do an entire trigger job without the rifle being entirely present (as you can't remove all the FCG parts)

As soon as I make a little $$ I plan to get my 07 FFL (01 at the least) so I can do work on whole guns.

For now the idea is to do what I can legally to fund the prospect of getting the FFL... Its not the license thats expensive, its getting a place to work thats zoned correctly...

Take it easy everyone.


JP

bonjing
02-26-2007, 1:04 PM
Turn around time 1-2 days on AK, SKS or AR-15, about a week on the FAL (I dont have any FAL lowers handy, they are all at my pals house) and I would need the hammer, trigger, disconnector...

if you want me to lighten the springs then include them as well. I will lighten the disconnector spring and clip a leg off the hammer spring to lighten the trigger (hammer still retains all spring energy, just less is put onto the trigger)

What rifle would you be interested in?

J

I would be interested in the AR trigger group. I have sent my trigger's out to "whatnow" over at ARF forums. as far as i can tell he did a pretty good job on them (I've only installed them and have not shot with them yet). I have had a set done by him for an 223 and a 9mm trigger with JP springs.

I think I have an extra trigger group set that I may want to send out to you, once I get home I'll check.

megavolt121
02-26-2007, 1:28 PM
Like I said, I'll offer a couple freebies for any willing victims ;)

JP

I'll sign up a RRA NM 2 stage trigger for victimizing. PM me :)

-hanko
02-26-2007, 1:47 PM
Ill probably offer to do 2-3 for free and let the owners of the parts speak to the board with their opinion of its usefulness.

Anyone wanna volunteer? lol
JP, I can send you a metric fal hammer/sear/disconnector if you'd like to take a run at them. What i'll send is from a virtually "carried lots/shot little" south african kit. Pm or email me the address. I can re-install them in a DSA STG, a few Imbels, a couple of Century receivers, and an Imbel Para lower on an sbr.

Different subject, White Oaks charge includes John Holliger (sp??) working over the standard rra fc group. Based on what folks shoot at Camp Perry and do very well with, he may be a damned hard act to follow;)

Thanks

-hanko

JPglee1
02-26-2007, 1:52 PM
JP, I can send you a metric fal hammer/sear/disconnector if you'd like to take a run at them. What i'll send is from a virtually "carried lots/shot little" south african kit. Pm or email me the address. I can re-install them in a DSA STG, a few Imbels, a couple of Century receivers, and an Imbel Para lower on an sbr.


Sounds great, except I would need them for more time as I dont have any FAL lowers around handy, Chris has a FAL and I would use it (Im gonna order a lower in the next day or 2)

When I sold my FAL I sold all 3 of my lowers with it, like a retard, so its the only rifle platform I dont have a receiver for to do the work on.

If you can be without the parts for a week or 2 I would be more than willing to give it a shot.

FAL has dramatic results when done correctly :D

JP

brighamr
02-26-2007, 3:05 PM
JP, there's a guy on the saiga forums that does this. His SN is BattleStar. He's overloaded with work, so if you do want to do Saigas, there is a demand for it. I've actually just completed my 762 without removing the FCG, but on the saiga forums they have a step by step process to remove the FCG for shipping.

What I would REALLY be interested in, would be if you could figure out a way to make the RSA 2-stage trigger work in a stock configured 762 saiga (no pistol grip conversion). So far, this has been deemed 'impossible' from everyone I've talked to, but I think it just needs some ingenuity and time, which I don't have... the challenge has been issued JP, do you accept? :D

JPglee1
02-26-2007, 3:11 PM
What I would REALLY be interested in, would be if you could figure out a way to make the RSA 2-stage trigger work in a stock configured 762 saiga (no pistol grip conversion). So far, this has been deemed 'impossible' from everyone I've talked to, but I think it just needs some ingenuity and time, which I don't have... the challenge has been issued JP, do you accept? :D

Nothing is impossible... got a picture of the RedStarArms FCG??

Ive been over to the Saiga boards, I dont get much attention there for some reason....

Anyway yes I accept the challenge...must see pictures now :D


J

mattmcg
02-26-2007, 3:18 PM
I think it really comes down to what trigger types you would work with and the acheivable improvement in results as part of your service. Perhaps it would be best to put together a list of trigger types with a before and after performance report that your customers could expect from your service. Putting a package together and assigning pricing coupled with the totality of services included within a package would also help communicate clearly to a customer what they are getting in exchange for their hard earned dollars.



Than again, a next step would be to buy a specific trigger control group (maybe a CMMG LPK), modify it with your own signature treatment (while displaying a marked improvement), and then sell it to interested persons (maybe even through 10 percent and coldwar shooters). Lord knows White Oak Armament sells a good number of Rock River 2 stage triggers that have been upgraded using it's own set of custom mods.

My $.02.

JPglee1
02-26-2007, 3:25 PM
I think it really comes down to what trigger types you would work with and the acheivable improvement in results as part of your service. Perhaps it would be best to put together a list of trigger types with a before and after performance report that your customers could expect from your service. Putting a package together and assigning pricing coupled with the totality of services included within a package would also help communicate clearly to a customer what they are getting in exchange for their hard earned dollars.



Thanks for the advice. This is the precise reason why I have offered to do a couple free of charge, so I can take pictures and use their testimony for advertising.

As far as modifying trigger groups and keeping them on hand, I might do that eventually but for now thats a lot of $$ layed out on "stocked-parts" with a 1-2 day turn around to Cali I'll just order them as demand requires, or have people send me theirs.

If it becomes popular then we would most likely offer whole kits. For now, just testing the water so to speak.


Thanks again for the kind words.


J

-hanko
02-26-2007, 3:50 PM
If you can be without the parts for a week or 2 I would be more than willing to give it a shot.

JP
1-2-3 weeks is fine. Email me your address when you're ready & many thanks for the offer.

-hanko