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sholling
11-22-2011, 10:17 AM
This show on the threat of EMP was on National Geographic Explorer last night. The youtube is 45 minutes long. It was on late so I just DVRed it and haven't had a chance to see more than the 1st 5 minutes.

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DarkSoul
11-22-2011, 10:45 AM
There is a pretty decent book called "One Second After" http://tinyurl.com/85so3sw , that deals with this very subject. It is pretty scary to think of what would happen if everything electronic just ceased to function.

Fortunately (at least on a day to day schedule) I work less than 10 miles from home, so I could hoof it there in a couple of hours. But with my wife having a pretty serious asthma condition, we would have to be very careful from there on out.

I just don't know how probable this is. The amount of technology required to create a country wide EMP burst, via nuclear or some other way, is pretty out there, I just don't think that our current serious enemy threats possess this sort of tech.

sholling
11-22-2011, 12:28 PM
There is a pretty decent book called "One Second After" http://tinyurl.com/85so3sw , that deals with this very subject. It is pretty scary to think of what would happen if everything electronic just ceased to function.

Fortunately (at least on a day to day schedule) I work less than 10 miles from home, so I could hoof it there in a couple of hours. But with my wife having a pretty serious asthma condition, we would have to be very careful from there on out.

I just don't know how probable this is. The amount of technology required to create a country wide EMP burst, via nuclear or some other way, is pretty out there, I just don't think that our current serious enemy threats possess this sort of tech.
There has been talk that the last North Koren underground test was an EMP optimized device and that's why the odd blast signature that some interpreted (at least publicly) as a disappointing explosion. If so then the Iranians have the tech because they share nuclear and missile technology. As for numbers one would cover most of the country to one degree or another and three would pretty thoroughly blanket us. A mid winter attack with half of the county under snow would leave the snowbelt states without heat, lights, transportation and food. In other words death by exposure or starvation. Major population centers nation-wide would be without food, water or lights for months if not a year.

Californio
11-22-2011, 3:04 PM
Iran would be melted glass if they ever tried a stunt like that - I find it hard to believe that they are really suicidal - they just pretend to be.




There has been talk that the last North Koren underground test was an EMP optimized device and that's why the odd blast signature that some interpreted (at least publicly) as a disappointing explosion. If so then the Iranians have the tech because they share nuclear and missile technology. As for numbers one would cover most of the country to one degree or another and three would pretty thoroughly blanket us. A mid winter attack with half of the county under snow would leave the snowbelt states without heat, lights, transportation and food. In other words death by exposure or starvation. Major population centers nation-wide would be without food, water or lights for months if not a year.

problemchild
11-22-2011, 3:19 PM
Using Ant downloader to dl to my roku and watch on the bigscreen.

NytWolf
11-22-2011, 3:24 PM
Will have to watch it tonight.

Dutch3
11-22-2011, 4:48 PM
Iran would be melted glass if they ever tried a stunt like that

True, if anyone in our administration had the stones to give that order. Somehow, I don't see it happening given the current makeup of our "leaders".

wheels
11-22-2011, 7:51 PM
True, if anyone in our administration had the stones to give that order. Somehow, I don't see it happening given the current makeup of our "leaders".

+1 - took Obama 8 months after they ID the house in Pakistan before he sent the SEALS in to get Bin Laden - imagine the chaos after an EMP and trying to determine whether it was Iran or N Korea. I know Venezuela was getting into bed with Iran in the last 12-24 months. Do they get a nuke as well?

What if the nuke was launched from Northern Mexico?

There is so much incompetence in government - and defending against an EMP is pretty tough. Since we were unable to prevent North Korea from developing a nuke and Iran is pretty close - it would be smart to prepare.

I enjoyed reading both "One second after" and "Lights out" - both on point.

problemchild
11-22-2011, 7:51 PM
True, if anyone in our administration had the stones to give that order. Somehow, I don't see it happening given the current makeup of our "leaders".

We have leaders?

bohoki
11-22-2011, 8:55 PM
i'm not sure of the emp mechanism but i thought it needed to be a high atmosphere blast to have the effect using the ionosphere as some king of resonator or some such nonsense

much of the supposition is a fallacy that an emp will destroy every electronic device

there is a difference between "can" and "will" the army tests stuff to harden and make survivable many things and they have the requirement that it will survive their tests or it fails assuming everything will be destroyed is i think a bit alarmist

i'm betting my atari 5200 survives

11HE9
11-22-2011, 9:58 PM
There is a pretty decent book called "One Second After"

I just finished reading this, I would suggest everyone who has not read it to find time to do so...

I thought I had a good idea of what EMP was, but I never thought about everything that would be effected after the initial event :eek:

problemchild
11-22-2011, 11:21 PM
I just finished reading this, I would suggest everyone who has not read it to find time to do so...

I thought I had a good idea of what EMP was, but I never thought about everything that would be effected after the initial event :eek:

Yeah I dont think anyone saw the 92% mortality rate coming. The book also had no ending. I mean all that happened was a humvee rolls into a town and hands out a few MRE's. Big deal! Does the 92 turn into 99%?

Exocet5
11-22-2011, 11:35 PM
I think you guys should check out what a Carrington Event is. This is what keeps me up at night. You had telegraph lines and metal buttons on jackets sparking and catching fire. There are entire forums dedicated to watching solar storms. Think natural disaster ala Fukushima and you realize it doesn't take a hostile country to manifest a serious life-altering threat. Frankly, Fuku is still on ongoing disaster; watch shtf (in Asia and global trade) when radiation hits Japan's deep aquifers in late fall, early winter. Preps. Now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_storm_of_1859

JoeJinKY
11-22-2011, 11:43 PM
Fortunately (at least on a day to day schedule) I work less than 10 miles from home, so I could hoof it there in a couple of hours.

This raises an interesting question!

How hard, really, would it be to learn how to roller blade, and keep a pair in your trunk, or under your desk at work, or whatever?

If our vehicles simply ceased to function, wouldn't it be prudent to have a folding bicycle in the trunk, or a folding electric scooter that is recharged off of your car battery, or plugged into an outlet at work? Even a kid's bicycle with 16" wheels and an extended seat post and handlebars you could quickly attach would be better than hoofing a ten mile hike! Look at the folding bicycles offered by Camping world. The DAHON is reliable, practical alternate transportation in an emergency.

A simple, inexpensive alternate form of emergency transportation should be a priority for everyone. Bicycles at home, maybe a dirt bike, maybe ... even a MOPED would prove priceless in that situation, especially because of the mileage it gets per gallon.

You can buy lead bags which are used to protect cameras at airport scanners. Maybe a couple of FRS/GMRS or CB radios kept handy, wrapped in a sheet of lead, which I assume would protect them from an EMP??? I was at Lowe's the other day. They had these roof vents made out of lead! I was wondering why many of them were dented and bent up, but it was from people squishing them with their fingers and such. These would work well to protect vital electronics from an EMP, and they're darned CHEAP! Pinch over the top of the vent to make a cone, place the device and batteries in the cone, and wrap the bottom with the flange. I don't think an EMP would get past this stuff. The lead is about 1/8" thick or more.

HK4113
11-22-2011, 11:47 PM
Roller blades are a bad idea for many reasons. A mountain bike would be better.

JoeJinKY
11-22-2011, 11:51 PM
Or a folding mountain bike!

DAHON (http://www.dahon.com/bikes/2011/curve-d3)

Folding Mountain Bike (http://www.amazon.com/Army-Recon-Folding-Mountain-Bike/dp/B001Z0RFMA)

SHIMANO Folding Mountain Bike (http://www.amazon.com/Shimano-Folding-Bicycle-Mountain-Speed/dp/B002TIS63E/ref=pd_sim_sbs_misc_4)

ireload
11-23-2011, 1:39 PM
The possibility is there. San Diego, part of Orange County, Imperial County, and parts of Arizona experience a black out for several hours a few months back. Supposedly a "worker in AZ" side messed up causing the black out. Between AZ and SD, the substations that "suppose" to stop the cascading black out did not take effect.

I can only imagine several or dozen EMP attack can turn this country upside down in a hurry.

Ripon83
11-23-2011, 1:48 PM
Ok, but they have demonstrated a great deal of "suicidal" activity over the years and no one calls them on it.....so why would they imagine this being any different.

Conspiracy out there wacky theory: China gets tired of the US and its impact on the world. China has people starving and needs more food badly. So using the "one second after" scenerio as presented in the book quoted above China manages to launch two or three weapons off a ship in the gulf and creates the "impact" as noted. They then lay the blame on Iran and North Korea to which the US responds with neutron weapons....leaving the oil in tact and in North Korea leaving what food production they have in tact (for China). China lands its troops in America to "help out" in our time of need and the 30 to 40 million remaining American's can help "farm" our soil for the Chinese.


Iran would be melted glass if they ever tried a stunt like that - I find it hard to believe that they are really suicidal - they just pretend to be.

Ripon83
11-23-2011, 1:53 PM
The book is a good eye opener for someone who is thinking about being prepared but not taking the leap.....I used it for my brother in law and it worked well. He's now a full fledged prepper who I've written about here several times. That said I've heard some people question or doubt the impacts of the weapons on our country as presented in this fictional account of an EMP attack. Two weapons I believe launched from the gulf black out America for more than a year? It seems to me that as woefully un prepared our society is - we're more prepared than that.

While I think urban areas like LA, SF, and Oakland would be really ugly I have faith that some of the rural areas will be quite supportive and capable in CA and surrounding states. There is a lot of land, a lot of guns, and a lot of wealth that will be managed in a difficult way - but I think things here would be far different than in the region described in the book.


I just finished reading this, I would suggest everyone who has not read it to find time to do so...

I thought I had a good idea of what EMP was, but I never thought about everything that would be effected after the initial event :eek:

itisagoodname
11-23-2011, 2:12 PM
Funny, the more time i spend on here the more i think of these events.

I live in the bay area and up in the hills outside where i grew up is a house on a small lake/creek about 4 or so miles up in the hills between the coast and Crystal Springs reservoir. The house i've read is a retreat for some CA senator or something, the lake is plentiful with trout and there's a strict no-fishing policy up there. Without a way for anyone to get up there it seems like the ideal bug-out location for me! I really need to find a way to EMP proof my motorcycle or else buy an older motorcycle with a carb.

devilinblack
11-23-2011, 3:35 PM
Decent show, downloaded from usenet and watched it this afternoon. Thanks for the heads up.

11HE9
11-23-2011, 9:07 PM
I am using a 20 foot shipping container for storage/shop space. I have been wondering if I grounded it properly if it could be a make-shift Faraday cage?, or does it have to be made of copper ?:confused:?

bill_k_lopez
11-23-2011, 9:30 PM
I am using a 20 foot shipping container for storage/shop space. I have been wondering if I grounded it properly if it could be a make-shift Faraday cage?, or does it have to be made of copper ?:confused:?

Its not that simple - however most houses already have faraday cages - the inside of your microwave oven will work as one., Go out and grab a broken microwave and throw your electronic junk in it.

11HE9
11-23-2011, 9:34 PM
I was afraid of that... but, not suprised. I need room for a generator and a few old Landcruiser parts ;)

thenodnarb
11-23-2011, 9:35 PM
I am using a 20 foot shipping container for storage/shop space. I have been wondering if I grounded it properly if it could be a make-shift Faraday cage?, or does it have to be made of copper ?:confused:?

It just has to conduct electricity. I don't know enough about EMP specifically but even a car can be a faraday cage of sorts. Top gear did a test where they simulated lightening striking a car(by shocking it with 800k volts or so) and mentioned that the car is a faraday cage which protects the driver as long as he doesn't tough any grounded metal in the car.

I imagine a shipping container touching the ground would work even better.

11HE9
11-23-2011, 9:46 PM
I don't know enough about EMP specifically...

This is my problem.. I was trained on the after effects of a nuke detonation on a grunt, not a generator :(

ireload
11-24-2011, 3:04 AM
Here's a link regarding EMP you guys may find useful. It's long but informative.

http://www.futurescience.com/emp/emp-protection.html

bill_k_lopez
11-24-2011, 5:44 AM
It just has to conduct electricity. I don't know enough about EMP specifically but even a car can be a faraday cage of sorts. Top gear did a test where they simulated lightening striking a car(by shocking it with 800k volts or so) and mentioned that the car is a faraday cage which protects the driver as long as he doesn't tough any grounded metal in the car.

I imagine a shipping container touching the ground would work even better.

The pulse set off from an EMP will not harm people, plants or animals. What it will destroy is anything electronic that uses silicon chips. The pulse will send an electrical charge across anything conductive, and while its not a big enough charge for you to feel, its enough to fry the little things that are only used to getting low electrical charges.

A lighting bolt will seriously mess you up - the only way you'll know that an EMP pulse was generated will be that everything you have that's electronic will just stop working. For instance - in your car, the motor,battery, alternator - all that will technically function - but the computer system that tells your fuel injection system to work will be fried, thus making your car not function. The electronic ignition system in your car will be fried, the radio will be fried.

hk91666
11-24-2011, 5:53 AM
I am betting it will destroy a red dot and laser sighting system. All the more reason for buis on the black rifles and the like.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk

scarville
11-24-2011, 7:05 AM
I am using a 20 foot shipping container for storage/shop space. I have been wondering if I grounded it properly if it could be a make-shift Faraday cage?, or does it have to be made of copper ?:confused:?
If it conductive it may work. The only way to know for sure, of course, is to subject it to an EMP. In any case, the stuff you want to protect must be insulated from the walls.

sholling
11-24-2011, 8:17 AM
I am betting it will destroy a red dot and laser sighting system. All the more reason for buis on the black rifles and the like.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk
BUIS are always a must-have but I'm not sure how vulnerable the better red dots and holographic sights are. The military has always planned around the possibility of dealing with a nuclear battlefield and tends to insist on some degree of hardening.

thenodnarb
11-24-2011, 10:08 AM
If it conductive it may work. The only way to know for sure, of course, is to subject it to an EMP. In any case, the stuff you want to protect must be insulated from the walls.

The video in the OP showed computers "hardened" inside solid steel cabinets, so a shipping container should work. Put stuff on pallets and you should be good right? In fact I think the bottoms of the containers are actually wood with cross-members under them, so even the pallets may not be necessary.
If you had MAG you could group buy a container and keep all the sensitive gear in one place(or if you have the room and money just do it yourself). Get an insulated container, and put an air conditioner in it(i've seen it done) and you could keep your food supply in there as well without too much expense. Cooler temps obviously keep food longer than if you kept it in say, a shed.