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Ding126
11-20-2011, 12:31 PM
Was the 10 day waiting period designed to allow the DOJ enough time to do a background check or was it a cooling off period?

Was the 10 day wait created before computers, at a time when everything was snail mailed to the DOJ?

Why is there no instant background check in CA? It is 2011. Why are my & your constitutional rights being delayed? Maybe for the 1st time buyer but not every time.

Can the state be sued for dragging their feet or intentionally delaying modernizing their systems ??

Bhobbs
11-20-2011, 12:36 PM
It is a cooling off period. I believe they actually do the background check the 9th or 10th day.

jeep7081
11-20-2011, 12:36 PM
Someone else will chime in I am sure (its cg..lol). But, I know other states have an instant check. Your in and out with your firearm in 5-10min. I was always under the impression its a "cooling off period". To make sure your not going to go out and do someone harm with it. Or at least thats the thinking behind it.

sfpcservice
11-20-2011, 12:37 PM
Last time I went to buy a gun I ran into this wait.... By the time the 10 days passed I wasn't mad anymore and I ended up not buying the gun. Saved me a lot of money! :43:

Muhaha
11-20-2011, 12:39 PM
You can simply look at the other states that don't have this waiting period to know we're getting screwed here in CA - along with bullet buttons and magazine capacity.

The Supreme Court has ruled that our safety and security is NOT the responsibility of the Police yet they limit our ability to protect our families.

Ding126
11-20-2011, 12:40 PM
Last time I went to buy a gun I ran into this wait.... By the time the 10 days passed I wasn't mad anymore and I ended up not buying the gun. Saved me a lot of money! :43:

LOL:rofl2:

Cokebottle
11-20-2011, 12:40 PM
It is a cooling off period. I believe they actually do the background check the 9th or 10th day.
Sometimes later.

It is rare, but FFLs here have reported that the DOJ has issued a DROS-Hold after the gun has been picked up... then they have to beg and plead for the buyer to bring the gun back.
Not a good situation for an FFL to be put into.

Ding126
11-20-2011, 12:42 PM
Is a mandatory cooling off period or a delay legal when it comes to Constitutional Rights?

Purple K
11-20-2011, 12:44 PM
It's a "cooling off" period. One of those "feel good" laws. Once your first wait is over, subsequent purchases should be instant checked.

Drivedabizness
11-20-2011, 12:45 PM
It's a form of prior restraint. Prior to the exercise of your rights, since you are assumed to be NOT fully capable of doing so in a responsible manner, you have to wait 10 days.

I know its not high up on the priority list...sigh.

Connor P Price
11-20-2011, 12:47 PM
It used to be a 15 day wait I believe. That was because it actually took that long to process background checks via mail. Once computers came around the time was reduced to 10 days because 15 was to long. Now with NICS the 10 days is being kept with the rationale that its a cooling off period, but I don't think that's how this all got started. We do actually use the NICS system here though.

(Unverified information, can anyone confirm or deny?)

6172crew
11-20-2011, 12:49 PM
It doesn't make any difference to people like me who have a safe full of firearms to make me wait for 10 days. Unless maybe a dv was used against me and it took 10 days to report that to the doj.

Like most gun laws they have little do with reality and are feel good laws that do little to protect the public or leo IMO.

OC-Indian
11-20-2011, 12:49 PM
The next time you see a liberal, thank them for another brilliant oppressive legislation. And don't forget to also thank them for the one-in-30 law.

dantodd
11-20-2011, 12:50 PM
Is a mandatory cooling off period or a delay legal when it comes to Constitutional Rights?

Possibly for a first purchase or to someone who doesn't otherwise have access to a firearm. Otherwise probably not.

zvardan
11-20-2011, 12:50 PM
Its instant now, Doherty eexercises delay tactics. And besides, think of the children ;)

dantodd
11-20-2011, 12:51 PM
The actual reason is to make gun ownership inconvenient and discourage people from purchasing guns.

Cokebottle
11-20-2011, 12:53 PM
Is a mandatory cooling off period or a delay legal when it comes to Constitutional Rights?
No, but until McDonald incorporated the 2nd against the states, California had no 2A.

Remember, states have their own constitutions. MOST mimic the US Constitution in most respects, but many do not. California is one of those, and we have never had the RKBA included in the California constitution.
The 16th amendment incorporated some of the original 10 against the states, prohibiting them from violating them, but the 2nd was not among them until last year.
Prior to the 16th, the US Constitution only applied to the Federal government.

G60
11-20-2011, 12:53 PM
It acts to deter people from exercising a right, and I believe that is the sole reason waiting periods are enacted under the guise of a 'cooling off period'

Make a right difficult enough to exercise and fewer and fewer people will.

And Dan beat me while I was typing =P

IrishPirate
11-20-2011, 12:55 PM
Was the 10 day waiting period designed to allow the DOJ enough time to do a background check or was it a cooling off period?

Was the 10 day wait created before computers, at a time when everything was snail mailed to the DOJ?

Why is there no instant background check in CA? It is 2011. Why are my & your constitutional rights being delayed? Maybe for the 1st time buyer but not every time.

Can the state be sued for dragging their feet or intentionally delaying modernizing their systems ??

Background check before instant background checks were made possible. The background check in CA is instant too. The 10 days is also to keep people from flooding the used market with guns (which it hasn't done) and to appease people who think you would just go crazy, buy a gun, and kill people. Once someone buys one gun that justification for the 10 day wait doesn't make any sense.

It's a stupid feel good law like the 1 gun in 30 day rule (which really is more about flooding the used market with guns, though it too hasn't helped) and it's being fought right now. Since there's no proof any of it worked and there is proof that it constrains your RKBA, it'll like be shot down.

Also if Dearth v Holder goes through you could buy a gun from anywhere in the US so that would nullify the 10day wait. Once it goes through, Reno Gun shops are getting a sh*t ton of my money!

drifter001
11-20-2011, 1:02 PM
Last time I went to buy a gun I ran into this wait.... By the time the 10 days passed I wasn't mad anymore and I ended up not buying the gun. Saved me a lot of money! :43:

hahaah this is awesome! :rofl2:

ETD1010
11-20-2011, 8:56 PM
Sometimes later.

It is rare, but FFLs here have reported that the DOJ has issued a DROS-Hold after the gun has been picked up... then they have to beg and plead for the buyer to bring the gun back.
Not a good situation for an FFL to be put into.

I had that happen once.

robcoe
11-20-2011, 9:14 PM
Like others have said, it's one of those fell good "common sense" laws that does noting but annoy people, particularly ones like me who have more guns than fingers, let alone hands.

GWbiker
11-20-2011, 9:25 PM
It's a 10 day cooling off period in California that worked quite well during the LA Riots...

/sarcasm.

natrab
11-20-2011, 9:32 PM
While I'm cooling off I'll go get my other guns and sit around holding them while angry about not having my new one. That's a better situation for everyone. Maybe I'll get drunk too if there's no waiting period on booze :rolleyes:

Nevermore
11-20-2011, 9:58 PM
The actual reason is to make gun ownership inconvenient and discourage people from purchasing guns.

Dingdingding. We have a winner! This is pretty much it. Every other excuse that antis offer up for it is pure dross.

bwiese
11-20-2011, 10:36 PM
The 10 day wait period used to be 15 days before 1991.

The waiting period was designed in combination to frustrate gun sales, in support of mythical 'cooling off', and to allow time for background checks (before fast computers and fast communications).

It appears the waiting period today is kinda moot for DOJ background check purposes as they sometimes/often do that at the 'last minute' (i.e, last day or so).

The waiting period effectiveness is also moot for anyone buying a gun who already owns a gun - since there's no damage being prevented (dude coulda shot up the place with a gun he already owned; the courts won't be swayed by arguments from the Bradys that people want a certain make and model of gun to commit a crime even though they're already armed).

The only place where waiting period might have some legal support is for a person not owning any gun and acquiring his first gun [and that doesn't mean "first gun in California"- that means "first gun anywhere"]. There is a minor correlation in suicide reduction and this will likely stand - and it's not worth our time fighting this one specific variant of the waiting period.

Riflewizard
11-21-2011, 12:08 AM
i always thought it was for a waiting period to cool off or whatever. Makes sense to me. You never know what someone's motives might be. It's annoying, but it's really not destroying our rights or anything. I don't have a problem with it.

erik_26
11-21-2011, 2:43 AM
I have spent 120 days waiting for guns. I am young too.


By the time it is all said and done, I could waste years of my life waiting for my guns.

10 days seems little more significant when you say it like that. It really starts to add up.

drifter2be
11-21-2011, 2:54 AM
Also if Dearth v Holder goes through you could buy a gun from anywhere in the US so that would nullify the 10day wait. Once it goes through, Reno Gun shops are getting a sh*t ton of my money!

HAHA, ten day wait or just burn the better part of 1 day on a road trip? I know I would be taking a trip to AZ whenever I wanted to make a purchase...

The 10 day law is stupid, as is the 1 in 30 law, especially after you already own a firearm.

Scratch705
11-21-2011, 3:21 AM
i always thought it was for a waiting period to cool off or whatever. Makes sense to me. You never know what someone's motives might be. It's annoying, but it's really not destroying our rights or anything. I don't have a problem with it.

this kind of thinking isn't going to help us. i sometimes don't mind waiting but i want it to be a choice i can make on my own, not something forced upon me.

same with the whole 10 round limit. yea i don't mind it since it slows down my shooting, but i can always make the choice to down load my 30 rounders if i choose to get the same result. instead of making it near impossible to get 30 rounders, and then make it even more hassling to use it.

Don29palms
11-21-2011, 6:06 AM
All gun control is an infringement of 2A. Especially here in the USSK, we don't have rights. We have privileges that the government allows us to have.

Andy Taylor
11-21-2011, 6:40 AM
HAHA, ten day wait or just burn the better part of 1 day on a road trip? I know I would be taking a trip to AZ whenever I wanted to make a purchase...

The 10 day law is stupid, as is the 1 in 30 law, especially after you already own a firearm.

If you are a CA resident, you can not purchase a firearm in AZ, or any state other than CA, unless you have an FFL.

wellerjohn
11-21-2011, 6:44 AM
The actual reason is to make gun ownership inconvenient and discourage people from purchasing guns.

You nailed it.

wilit
11-21-2011, 7:08 AM
California has had a waiting period on handguns since 1923. Laws changed many times to cover long guns and change the number of days.

Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk

Sutcliffe
11-21-2011, 7:23 AM
It's a "cooling off" period. One of those "feel good" laws. Once your first wait is over, subsequent purchases should be instant checked.

Once you have a gun the 10 day waiting period is nothing more than harrassment of the law abiding.

Ubermcoupe
11-21-2011, 7:32 AM
i always thought it was for a waiting period to cool off or whatever. Makes sense to me. You never know what someone's motives might be. It's annoying, but it's really not destroying our rights or anything. I don't have a problem with it.

I have a problem with it because it requires me to scheduale myself to work out certain deals as I add to my collection.
I am back and forth from the East and West coast and I have to go out of my way to make sure I DROS, and pick up my gun >10 day but <30; and factor days the FFL is closed... If I get screwed with weather or a deal becomes inflexible I miss out. And with the roster it hard enough to find my prized possessions as it is.

The 10 day wait & 1 in 30, are in place to inconvenience (thus discouraging) gun ownership. (Credit to Dantodd)

GettoPhilosopher
11-21-2011, 7:57 AM
It doesn't make any difference to people like me who have a safe full of firearms to make me wait for 10 days. Unless maybe a dv was used against me and it took 10 days to report that to the doj.

Like most gun laws they have little do with reality and are feel good laws that do little to protect the public or leo IMO.

I always joke it's because the XXth gun is REALLY the one that's going to drive me over the edge, so you know, they've gotta make me wait. ;D

taperxz
11-21-2011, 7:58 AM
The actual reason is to make gun ownership inconvenient and discourage people from purchasing guns.

This is only half the truth, it also encourages the law abiding to beak the law and do illegal PTP transfers because they don't want to wait. This in turn makes DOJ records dis functional in regards to HG purchases. DOJ and the state should rethink this policy! I would have to think many more would be willing to Reg. a firearm if they were not required to wait 10 days.

I have no facts to back this up. It does seem logical though.

fryan
11-21-2011, 8:02 AM
How is it a cooling off period when I already have a safe full of guns? It is not a cooling off period in Cali. It is there way of messing with us.

zinfull
11-21-2011, 8:05 AM
I do not think this is a non important item. To me this more important than the high cap issue. Why do I have to wait ten days to buy a gun and take it home. It makes buying out of your area not worth the hassle. You travel around the state and find a gun you want but the hoops for getting it home due to the wait period adds more money which makes the gun not worth it. It is just a feel good law put out to make non gun people feel safe but the DOJ keeps it to prevent you from acquiring more guns. It also locks the area near FFL's for their personal sale region. This just adds to bad service due to limited competition.

jerry

taperxz
11-21-2011, 8:08 AM
I do not think this is a non important item. To me this more important than the high cap issue. Why do I have to wait ten days to buy a gun and take it home. It makes buying out of your area not worth the hassle. You travel around the state and find a gun you want but the hoops for getting it home due to the wait period adds more money which makes the gun not worth it. It is just a feel good law put out to make non gun people feel safe but the DOJ keeps it to prevent you from acquiring more guns. It also locks the area near FFL's for their personal sale region. This just adds to bad service due to limited competition.

jerry

HMM, A form of government price fixing of firearms. Maybe this would be a good stand to take on the issue.

Fufodog
11-21-2011, 8:11 AM
i always thought it was for a waiting period to cool off or whatever. Makes sense to me. You never know what someone's motives might be. It's annoying, but it's really not destroying our rights or anything. I don't have a problem with it.

You may have a problem with it if it's your first gun and you're buying it because you've had a credible threat against you or your family. Good luck getting a police officer to stand guard outside your house for 10 days.

Wrangler John
11-21-2011, 9:43 AM
It used to be a 15 day wait I believe. That was because it actually took that long to process background checks via mail. Once computers came around the time was reduced to 10 days because 15 was to long. Now with NICS the 10 days is being kept with the rationale that its a cooling off period, but I don't think that's how this all got started. We do actually use the NICS system here though.

(Unverified information, can anyone confirm or deny?)

Before that it was a 3 day wait for handguns only, and no wait for long guns. Before 1968 I could and did buy a rifle by mail order, or purchase a handgun in another state and walk out with it. There really were good old days.

Arondos
11-21-2011, 9:53 AM
I learned this was instant when I bought my first handgun after moving to CA.

Moved here from WA. Bought my first weapon in CA. Filled out paperwork.

As I was standing there the gentleman behind the counter says "uh-oh."

I respond "What do you mean uh-oh?"

"Your name is coming up with a red flag." At this point the two LEO's at the other counter are eye balling me.

"You have got to be ******* kidding me? I just retired from the Navy and until about two months ago I had an active top secret clearance."

He asked for my SSN and added that. Went right through but apparently someone with the same name has been a bad boy. Have had the same thing happen on a subsequent purchase when they only ran my name.

soopafly
11-21-2011, 10:19 AM
The actual reason is to make gun ownership inconvenient and discourage people from purchasing guns.

That's a big FAIL on their part, and I know first hand.

As I was waiting for the paperwork to be done on my last DROS, I got to fondle this:
http://www.riflegear.com/images/product/large/608_1_.jpg
I was SOOOOOO tempted...but I remained strong and resisted:p I'm fairly confident others are not as strong as I am:D

I think I even remember in another thread, Wes mentioned he didn't mind "not making any money" on the state mandated paperwork, because he realizes that the more time a customer spends inside his shop, the more likely they are to spend $$$...especially if there are cool toys on display.

So, in some cases, this 10 day wait backfires and actually encourages gun sales...hahaha.

Decoligny
11-21-2011, 10:37 AM
It is a cooling off period. I believe they actually do the background check the 9th or 10th day.

I could see it being a cooling off period for the purchase of your first gun. This would help prevent someone from getting into a fight with their spouse, and then going to the gun store and passing an instant background check, getting the gun and going home to shoot the spouse.

For those who already own at least one firearm, this makes no sense at all. If they get mad enough to use a gun, they already have a gun, they don't need to go buy another gun to commit murder.

I think CA should change the system so that those who already have a gun should be able to take advantage of the instant background check.

Sniper3142
11-21-2011, 10:41 AM
i always thought it was for a waiting period to cool off or whatever. Makes sense to me. You never know what someone's motives might be. It's annoying, but it's really not destroying our rights or anything. I don't have a problem with it.

This MIGHT make sense if it was the FIRST firearm a person owned or purchased.

If the person already owns firearms, this stupid law does nothing to prevent crime. It's only purpose is to make purchasing firearms more difficult and further infringe on the 2A.

Blisstar
11-21-2011, 12:01 PM
How is it a cooling off period when I already have a safe full of guns? It is not a cooling off period in Cali. It is there way of messing with us.

Very much agreed!!! If I have a LTC showing I already own atleast 3 Pistols, as well as have had safety training. Whats the point? again the availability of doing a background check with todays technology should be fast, that same check could come back saying "already an owner" and the need for a "cool Off" would no longer be needed, It's some politician imposing a law to get votes from all the firearm haters out there.

PixelBender
11-21-2011, 3:01 PM
Why is there no instant background check in CA? It is 2011. Why are my & your constitutional rights being delayed? Maybe for the 1st time buyer but not every time.


I'm with your on that. I dont get why the waiting period is applied to owners who already own multiple firearms. Its mostly for first time buyers who "in the heat of passion" want to get a little crazy. It gives them an opportunity cool but, but why in the hell would the law apply to me or others who own multiple firearms. It makes no sense. For example... If you PPT a firearm to someone you still have to wait 10 days? No sense there seeing how if there was any intent to commit a crime, the gun could have just been given to the other party. If the other party thought that the recipient was going to commit a crime why bother PPTing it in the first place? Get your name off the books? Thats stupid... Better off telling them to get their own gun and calling a lawyer and reevaluating your associates. That said... The first time is the hardest. It gets easier every time after that.

PixelBender
11-21-2011, 3:03 PM
Very much agreed!!! If I have a LTC showing I already own atleast 3 Pistols, as well as have had safety training. Whats the point? again the availability of doing a background check with todays technology should be fast, that same check could come back saying "already an owner" and the need for a "cool Off" would no longer be needed, It's some politician imposing a law to get votes from all the firearm haters out there.

Its like they almost want to make owning guns a hassle, and as unfriendly as possible. :beatdeadhorse5:

Kauf
11-21-2011, 3:15 PM
I have heard that if you buy a gun on say the 1st of the month, wait ten days and come back on that 10th day, you can purchase whatever you want and not have to wait the ten days on the other guns (assuming not more than 1 handgun) because your background check was just completed. Any truth to that?

Btw remember kids, you can always buy a rifle from the CMP and have it shipped right to your door no 10day wait or FFL required. If only you could get everything you wanted from the CMP haha

Bruce
11-21-2011, 3:46 PM
Back in 1965 it was three days and there wasn't a check, just the "cooling off" period. My mother went down to the local hardware store in Glendora and was buying a Colt Detective Special because of the unpleasantness in Watts. While waiting, things quieted down, and she figured 10 year old me would find it. She decided against it and the store gave her the money back. Things were different back then.

Cokebottle
11-21-2011, 4:17 PM
i always thought it was for a waiting period to cool off or whatever. Makes sense to me. You never know what someone's motives might be. It's annoying, but it's really not destroying our rights or anything. I don't have a problem with it.
Quite true, but at indicated above by several....

I already have more than 6 handguns and 6 rifles available and over 1000 rounds of ammo in each caliber... how is a 10 day wait going to prevent me from committing a crime?

If the "cooling off period" is to prevent a crime of passion or a crime of opportunity, a 24 hours or 72 hour wait is more than adequate.
For a suicide, if someone is set on it, they're going to find a way.

Cokebottle
11-21-2011, 4:19 PM
HAHA, ten day wait or just burn the better part of 1 day on a road trip? I know I would be taking a trip to AZ whenever I wanted to make a purchase...
Except you'd still have to have either a fake ID from AZ, or buy private party. An Arizona gun shop isn't going to sell to someone from California unless they are an 03FFL and they are buying a C&R.


The 1 in 30 is most likely to prevent "underground" dealing without a license... and of course it is ineffective because it's always possible to PPT (illegally) underground.

GWbiker
11-21-2011, 4:23 PM
Its like they almost want to make owning guns a hassle, and as unfriendly as possible. :beatdeadhorse5:

Geee, do ya' think that's reason for 10 day wait, DROS, PPT, etc.... in Kommyforyna.

IT'S CONTROL. STATE CONTROL.

Liberals claim sensible gun laws, but that's BS....it's CONTROL.

Kid Stanislaus
11-21-2011, 5:49 PM
Last time I went to buy a gun I ran into this wait.... By the time the 10 days passed I wasn't mad anymore and I ended up not buying the gun. Saved me a lot of money! :43:

That's not the way it works at my local gun store. They make me pay for the gun first. THEN the ten day wait sets in and I'm not mad anymore after about eight or nine days but I've already bought the gun. That's how SO MANY guns ended up in my safe!!:D

erik_26
11-22-2011, 6:27 AM
Another approach to this....


How about we play the environment card?

I have to drive 50 miles each way to buy a gun. So 100 miles to buy and then 100 miles 10 days later to pick it up.

In my arsenal of polluting, I could drive my truck that gets ~15 MPG.

If they would just let me take my gun home the same day, that would cut down on pollution, clear up the road ways, reduce wear and tear on the roads.... etc.

Be 'Green' get rid of the 10-day wait.

Wherryj
11-22-2011, 7:23 AM
Someone else will chime in I am sure (its cg..lol). But, I know other states have an instant check. Your in and out with your firearm in 5-10min. I was always under the impression its a "cooling off period". To make sure your not going to go out and do someone harm with it. Or at least thats the thinking behind it.

Obviously because NO ONE could POSSIBLY plan ANYTHING ten whole days in advance. The CA legislature sure can't, so they assume it's universal.

thegratenate
11-23-2011, 6:12 AM
Why a ten day wait?
For the children, that's why the legislature does everything.

I assume that this one is near the top of the "list", as clear of an infringement on our rights as this is it should be hard to defend in court once all of the proverbial ducks are in a row.

Quiet
11-23-2011, 6:17 AM
CA has had a waiting period for almost 90 years.

1923 = 1 day waiting period for handguns
1955 = 3 day waiting period for handguns
1965 = 5 day waiting period for handguns
1975 = 15 day waiting period for firearms
1997 = 10 day waiting period for firearms

barracudamuscle
11-23-2011, 6:56 AM
Another approach to this....


How about we play the environment card?

I have to drive 50 miles each way to buy a gun. So 100 miles to buy and then 100 miles 10 days later to pick it up.

In my arsenal of polluting, I could drive my truck that gets ~15 MPG.

If they would just let me take my gun home the same day, that would cut down on pollution, clear up the road ways, reduce wear and tear on the roads.... etc.

Be 'Green' get rid of the 10-day wait.

If were going to pull out the "environmental green card" lets just get rid of all the liberals and there mounds of paper work. I'll personally buy Nancy Pelosi and 2 of her close friends a one way ticket on a grey hound bus to mexico!

Wherryj
11-23-2011, 7:58 AM
Was the 10 day waiting period designed to allow the DOJ enough time to do a background check or was it a cooling off period?

Was the 10 day wait created before computers, at a time when everything was snail mailed to the DOJ?

Why is there no instant background check in CA? It is 2011. Why are my & your constitutional rights being delayed? Maybe for the 1st time buyer but not every time.

Can the state be sued for dragging their feet or intentionally delaying modernizing their systems ??

Why a ten day wait? Because CA Pols couldn't get a ten year wait passed...yet.

Uxi
11-23-2011, 8:26 AM
CA has had a waiting period for almost 90 years.

1923 = 1 day waiting period for handguns
1955 = 3 day waiting period for handguns
1965 = 5 day waiting period for handguns
1975 = 15 day waiting period for firearms
1997 = 10 day waiting period for firearms

I could see 1923 standard for the FIRST purchase. Once you get your first, the system should recognize that and immediately clear it. What were the justifications?

NeenachGuy
11-23-2011, 8:54 AM
When you buy a new car (costs a lot more money than a gun), there is no cooling off period in California ("lemon law"). However, when you buy a gun, there is a mandatory 10-day cooling off period.

In Arizona, where there is no waiting period, the number of deaths resulting from gun violence was 13.5 per 100,000 inhabitants in 2008, whereas the number of deaths resulting from motor vehicle collisions was 13.6 per 100,000. How many boneheads exist per 100,000? (HINT: there were probably fewer in 2009).

What makes little sense to me is that even someone with a COE is not exempt from the 10-day wait period. it takes much longer than 10 days to actually apply for and receive the COE, so by the time someone walks into Andy's Gun Works with a COE, the desire to purchase and own firearms is not an "impulse" decision, generally speaking.

NytWolf
11-23-2011, 9:42 AM
You guys keep forgetting, there is no logic to CA laws.