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sammy
02-22-2007, 4:48 PM
Hello all, I have a friend that is looking for a home defense shotgun. I know nothing about them so am looking for your opinions. He is a big guy and has no trouble with a 12 gage. We went shopping and found the Mossberg 590A1 which looked good, nice sights, 9 rounds of intruder destruction but seems a little large for maneuvering indoors. His price range is no more than $500.00. Thanks for your help, Sammy:D

phod330
02-22-2007, 4:59 PM
Any of the HD shotguns will do: Remington 870, Winchester 1300 Defender, Mossberg, etc. With $500 you could get any of those pump shotties. Mossberg 590 is really nice. Your not going to be able to get a shotgun with a barrel less than 18 inches, unless you are Law Enforcement. So for length wise, your stuck with that on a shottie.

the_natterjack
02-22-2007, 5:11 PM
Hello all, I have a friend that is looking for a home defense shotgun. I know nothing about them so am looking for your opinions. He is a big guy and has no trouble with a 12 gage. We went shopping and found the Mossberg 590A1 which looked good, nice sights, 9 rounds of intruder destruction but seems a little large for maneuvering indoors. His price range is no more than $500.00. Thanks for your help, Sammy:D


Take a look at the Big 5 sales flyer when it comes around. Usually can get a Mossberg combo package ( 16 and 20 inch )with DROS for around $260.

grammaton76
02-22-2007, 5:18 PM
The 590 is a little long in its default config, but I've got the top-folding stock on mine. Others have the top-folding stock on it and hate it, so it's really your choice.

Now, my roomie has what I would consider the ideal home defense pump shotgun:

http://cheapspeech.com/Pics/Friends/Brian/BullpupShotgun//s_dsc09371.jpg

CA-legal by a fraction of an inch. Search on Gunbroker for "mossberg bullpup", sometimes you can find 'em for $400 (that's what my roomie's ran).

maxicon
02-22-2007, 5:21 PM
Take a look at the Big 5 sales flyer when it comes around. Usually can get a Mossberg combo package ( 16 and 20 inch )with DROS for around $260.

The main problem with the Mossberg combo package (18.5" and 28") as a HD gun is that it's the lower capacity (5 round?) gun - you have to get the Security model to get the 8 round capacity, and changing tube capacity on a Mossberg is nowhere near as easy as a Remington. If that doesn't matter, it's a great deal.

With a $500 budget, though, I'd get an 870 and a flashlight forend, but that's just me.

Socal858
02-22-2007, 6:59 PM
dont discount the benelli nova/supernova models either. play with all of the big names if you can: rem, winchester, mossberg, benelli. see what you like about the placements of the safeties, slide releases, etc

randy
02-23-2007, 12:44 AM
Remmy 870
Benelli Nova

I'm not a mossberg guy.

DirtySanchez
02-23-2007, 9:56 AM
I dont know where you live but Turners has the Rem 870 on sale for 279.00
right now.

http://www.turners.com/engage/displayad2.php?H=1&m1=February&m2=February&d1=22&d2=28&img=ads/02-22-07/rem870.gif

scoobysnax
02-23-2007, 10:44 AM
Bud's Gun Shop sells the 590A1 (parkerized, Speedfeed stock, and ghost ring sights) for $388.65. (http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/46470) I was originally going to get one of those, but I decided to get the vanilla 590 (blued, bead sight) that was on sale at Big 5 last weekend instead.

rod
02-23-2007, 11:21 AM
If you're worried about length and maneuverability, go with a Mossy 500 or Rem 870 with an 18 inch barrel and pistol grip. No stock...pistol grip only. You can get them for under $300.

anotherted
02-23-2007, 11:31 AM
changing tube capacity on a Mossberg is nowhere near as easy as a Remington

Are you taking about finding tubes for sale or the process of changing them out?

In my 590 its a simple matter of unscrewing the mag tube from the receiver. Takes 1 min.

guimus
02-23-2007, 12:07 PM
...and if you can't clear your house with 5 rounds of 12ga, you've got problems!

sammy
02-24-2007, 8:16 AM
While my buddy and I were shopping for a shotgun I did not have any intention on getting one myself. Damnit, I had to get a Benelli Supernova, ghost ring sights. The gun just felt great, trigger was decent and the sights excellent!!! How am I going to explain this to my wife? :o

maxicon
02-24-2007, 9:49 AM
Are you taking about finding tubes for sale or the process of changing them out?

In my 590 its a simple matter of unscrewing the mag tube from the receiver. Takes 1 min.

Yes, it's easy on the 590. My post was about the 500 combo, which is much more difficult to extend the tube on. You basically need a new barrel assembly with the longer tube unless you're a machinist.

It's one of the biggest flaws in the 500 design, IMO. If someone wants extra capacity on a 500, they pretty much need to buy it that way, and that means no cheap 2-barrel combo.

XeRoFuN
02-25-2007, 2:18 PM
Yes, it's easy on the 590. My post was about the 500 combo, which is much more difficult to extend the tube on. You basically need a new barrel assembly with the longer tube unless you're a machinist.

It's one of the biggest flaws in the 500 design, IMO. If someone wants extra capacity on a 500, they pretty much need to buy it that way, and that means no cheap 2-barrel combo.


Yeah, I bought a Mossberg 500 8 shot with 20" barrel at Big 5, then later decided that I would be better off with the 18.5", so I had to buy both the barrel and the mag tube. Eh...still not bad. When I go to the range, I like putting the 8 shot one, then switching up to the 6 shot for home.

DedEye
02-25-2007, 4:13 PM
I have a Mossberg 590A1 as my HD gun. 8+1 capacity, a little long at 20" with the standard non-PG stock, but a very nice gun.

Mr. Beretta
02-25-2007, 10:21 PM
Pistol grip will work just great around the house. :)

E. Fudd
02-26-2007, 9:39 AM
Fwiw, recoil shooting full loads (e.g. buckshot/slugs) in a pistol grip only shotgun is _stout_, not a lot of fun. Also a bit more difficult to shoot accurately (yes, you have to aim a shotgun...) :)

Also, some ranges won't let you shoot them (requiring buttstocks).

I once saw a guy lend his PG-only shotgun to his bud at a range, shooting slugs and 50 yd. :rolleyes: The guy shot it off-hand and didn't have a good grip on the foreend. The shotgun flipped up on recoil and bopped him on the forehead. Luckily, he kept it pointed in a safe direction... :eek:

threadcrapper
02-26-2007, 10:09 AM
[QUOTE=grammaton76;510093]The 590 is a little long in its default config, but I've got the top-folding stock on mine. Others have the top-folding stock on it and hate it, so it's really your choice.

Now, my roomie has what I would consider the ideal home defense pump shotgun:

http://cheapspeech.com/Pics/Friends/Brian/BullpupShotgun//s_dsc09371.jpg

RE: That's wicked. Can you imagine a semi-auto built like that :D

montan
03-05-2007, 7:28 PM
While my buddy and I were shopping for a shotgun I did not have any intention on getting one myself. Damnit, I had to get a Benelli Supernova, ghost ring sights. The gun just felt great, trigger was decent and the sights excellent!!! How am I going to explain this to my wife? :o

Congratulations on your purchase. You don have to explain, just say sorry. it's much easier to apologize than to explain.

ChinoHillsDad
06-20-2007, 3:54 PM
Bud's Gun Shop sells the 590A1 (parkerized, Speedfeed stock, and ghost ring sights) for $388.65. (http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/46470) I was originally going to get one of those, but I decided to get the vanilla 590 (blued, bead sight) that was on sale at Big 5 last weekend instead.

This Mossberg at Buds for $380 is not a 590A1. It is a 590 with all standard features the A1 has (park, GRings, SpdFd stock). The A1 is a 51886 or a 51663. This is a 590 50886. The main difference between the two is has thicker and heavier barrel and the all metal safety and trigger. 590s have plastic/"synthetic" parts instead of metal. Functionally they are the same gun but you would have to pay more for one that has "590A1" stamped on the receiver. I only know this after hours of frustrating research comparing prices. Check out the Mossberg website. The only 59A1 listed there is the 51663 which is the same as 51668 but no speedfeed stock. 590A1s all start with 51xxx. I just ordered an A1 and am counting down the days.:D

Outlaw Josey Wales
06-20-2007, 9:12 PM
Yes, it's easy on the 590. My post was about the 500 combo, which is much more difficult to extend the tube on. You basically need a new barrel assembly with the longer tube unless you're a machinist.

It's one of the biggest flaws in the 500 design, IMO. If someone wants extra capacity on a 500, they pretty much need to buy it that way, and that means no cheap 2-barrel combo.

Just get one of the nylon shell holders that fits on the stock. Presto, 5 more rounds at your disposal, no hassles. :D

ZapThyCat
06-20-2007, 10:51 PM
mossberg 590!

Teletiger7
06-21-2007, 2:20 AM
The main problem with the Mossberg combo package (18.5" and 28") as a HD gun is that it's the lower capacity (5 round?) gun - you have to get the Security model to get the 8 round capacity, and changing tube capacity on a Mossberg is nowhere near as easy as a Remington. If that doesn't matter, it's a great deal.

With a $500 budget, though, I'd get an 870 and a flashlight forend, but that's just me.

5 rounds is plenty if you pick your shots. I'd rather have 5 rounds of 12 gauge than 5 rounds of .38

proraptor
06-21-2007, 8:06 AM
Go Mossberg 590A1 I got one about 2 months ago and like it much more than any other shotgun out there. Just make sure its a real 590A1 and not the 590 with the bells and whistles. It has a large stamp on the side that says "590A1." they are kind of hard to find though so good luck...

wildcard
06-21-2007, 12:59 PM
Go Mossberg 590A1 I got one about 2 months ago and like it much more than any other shotgun out there. Just make sure its a real 590A1 and not the 590 with the bells and whistles. It has a large stamp on the side that says "590A1." they are kind of hard to find though so good luck...

I have some version of the 590 parkerized w/ ghost ring sight etc.. definitely not the A1 because of of the plastic trigger guard and safety. What I can't figure out is if I have a heavy wall barrel by some freak chance. Even if I don't.. I'd like to know what the difference is. Do you have a set of dial calipers to take some measurements of the barrel diameter at the muzzle? Maybe the inside diameter too though that should be dependent on the gauge.

proraptor
06-21-2007, 2:42 PM
I dont have any thing to measure the barrel with...The biggest reason I wanted the A1 was it had the metal safety and trigger guard

wildcard
06-21-2007, 2:55 PM
I dont have any thing to measure the barrel with...The biggest reason I wanted the A1 was it had the metal safety and trigger guard

Now how to you measure your cartridges when you reload without a set of calipers? :)

proraptor
06-21-2007, 3:16 PM
I havent started reloading yet....Most of my stuff wont be here till tomorrow...Next paycheck Ill be buying the rest of the stuff I need.... :)

grammaton76
06-21-2007, 4:55 PM
Gah... "differences between Mossberg 500, 590, and 590A1" just got added to the gunwiki article wishlist. :)

Some of you look like you've done some research... you mind writing down some details so I don't end up writing it myself later? :)

http://thegunwiki.com/bin/edit/Gunwiki/GunMossberg5xxShotguns?topicparent=Gunwiki.WebHome

proraptor
06-21-2007, 5:21 PM
The mossberg 590A1 has a heavier barrel, metal safety, and metal trigger guard assembly while the regular 590 has a regular barrel, plastic safety, and plastic trigger guard assembly

MedSpec65
06-21-2007, 7:57 PM
It's my Remington 870 12 ga. with XS ghost-rings and the Knoxx Comp Stock. Extended mag provides 6 Hornady 00 Buck/TAP FPD to service the threat. I'll do without the Mossbergs and pistol grips, thank you. Less is better, IMHO.

proraptor
06-21-2007, 8:59 PM
It's my Remington 870 12 ga. with XS ghost-rings and the Knoxx Comp Stock. Extended mag provides 6 Hornady 00 Buck/TAP FPD to service the threat. I'll do without the Mossbergs and pistol grips, thank you. Less is better, IMHO.

What if a gang of 20 breaks into your house? Id rather have a 590A1 with 9 in the gun, 8 on the side in a mesa tactical side saddle, and an ontario M9 bayonet to clean up the rest....

6 shots wont cut it in my book scooter especially if that zombie invasion ever comes...:devil:

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e335/pixiepark/IMG_3085.jpg

I love my mossberg

Flux Capacitor
06-21-2007, 10:14 PM
What if a gang of 20 breaks into your house? Id rather have a 590A1 with 9 in the gun, 8 on the side in a mesa tactical side saddle, and an ontario M9 bayonet to clean up the rest....

6 shots wont cut it in my book scooter especially if that zombie invasion ever comes...:devil:

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e335/pixiepark/IMG_3085.jpg

I love my mossberg

Where did u get the side mounted shell holder?

River Jack
06-21-2007, 10:34 PM
I like the Remington 870 Police Mag., 12 ga. Metal is blued, not parkerized, has wood furniture, and has factory 8 round capacity. Classy looking but also intimidating. Also easy to accessorize and not too expensive. I figure if they are good enough for the police, they're good enough for me. I've got the standard stock, as I'm not a fan of pistol grips on shotguns. I like my wrists too much to do that to them!

wearemisled
06-22-2007, 3:42 AM
I just bought the Remington 870 Tactical Magnum. Here are a couple of pics.

http://img489.imageshack.us/img489/6055/8701tv5.jpg

http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/7144/8702xz2.jpg

BTW... Does anyone know if it would be legal to put a bayonet on this 870 since it has a pistol grip? Also can anyone recommend one for it?

proraptor
06-22-2007, 8:05 AM
I like the Remington 870 Police Mag., 12 ga. Metal is blued, not parkerized, has wood furniture, and has factory 8 round capacity. Classy looking but also intimidating. Also easy to accessorize and not too expensive. I figure if they are good enough for the police, they're good enough for me. I've got the standard stock, as I'm not a fan of pistol grips on shotguns. I like my wrists too much to do that to them!

Law Enforcement and military use whatever gun they can get the cheapest and works....

ryang
06-22-2007, 8:26 AM
Any home defense choice has to consider a number of factors:
1. Will he be the only person using it? Ever? (I'm thinking wife/gf if he doesn't have one now.)
2. Apartment or house? Overpenetration is a factor.
3. Would kids be present? Even if "sometimes", longarms are harder to secure (loaded) for ready access than pistols.
4. Don't forget defensive tactics. If you plan to bunker down then firearm length isn't as big an issue.

If you're set on a shotgun then I'd suggest a 20gauge for reduced recoil and quicker followup shot placement. Easier for unexperienced to manage. Don't buy into that "rack the shotgun" BS.

Perhaps better would be a .223 OLL. Ten rounds is higher capacity than any shotgun, inflicts more damage yet doesn't overpenetrate as much.

proraptor
06-22-2007, 8:47 AM
.223 doesnt over penetrate? .223 would penetrate more than buckshot for sure...

Citadelgrad87
06-22-2007, 9:53 AM
Any home defense choice has to consider a number of factors:
1. Will he be the only person using it? Ever? (I'm thinking wife/gf if he doesn't have one now.)
2. Apartment or house? Overpenetration is a factor.
3. Would kids be present? Even if "sometimes", longarms are harder to secure (loaded) for ready access than pistols.
4. Don't forget defensive tactics. If you plan to bunker down then firearm length isn't as big an issue.

If you're set on a shotgun then I'd suggest a 20gauge for reduced recoil and quicker followup shot placement. Easier for unexperienced to manage. Don't buy into that "rack the shotgun" BS.

Perhaps better would be a .223 OLL. Ten rounds is higher capacity than any shotgun, inflicts more damage yet doesn't overpenetrate as much.

My Bennelli holds 9, 7 in the tube, one in the chamber, one sitting on the spoon, and is always, at least so far, 100%. Add the 9v upgraded Surefire, and I'm content.[eta one less than I thought]
Of course, I also have a Bushy, mags (yes, it IS registered), a G27, 50 extra shotgun rounds, and a seecamp 32 in the same Gunlocker.

And that's just upstairs...

Powersauce
06-22-2007, 12:01 PM
What if a gang of 20 breaks into your house? Id rather have a 590A1 with 9 in the gun, 8 on the side in a mesa tactical side saddle, and an ontario M9 bayonet to clean up the rest....

6 shots wont cut it in my book scooter especially if that zombie invasion ever comes...:devil:

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e335/pixiepark/IMG_3085.jpg

I love my mossbergdoes that come w/the bayo lug?

proraptor
06-22-2007, 12:29 PM
does that come w/the bayo lug?
yes the 590a1 comes with it...

River Jack
06-22-2007, 6:22 PM
Law Enforcement and military use whatever gun they can get the cheapest and works....

Not exactly the same criteria I have, but also not necessarily a bad thing. Inexpensive & reliable, sounds good to me.

River Jack
06-22-2007, 6:26 PM
I have to admit, that Mossy with the bayonet and side saddle looks pretty cool. Mikey likey.

proraptor
06-22-2007, 11:11 PM
Not exactly the same criteria I have, but also not necessarily a bad thing. Inexpensive & reliable, sounds good to me.

Its all a bidding war....Whoever can get them the guns the cheapest wins

ryang
06-24-2007, 12:18 PM
.223 doesnt over penetrate? .223 would penetrate more than buckshot for sure...It may seem counterintuitive but .223 tends to fragment which reduces penetration of hard objects.

From http://www.rifleshootermag.com/featured_rifles/ar_patrol/:
It is a surprise to many people that the round that works best for going through walls is the 9mm. With relatively higher velocities, the .223 bullets generally break up upon impact, even when hitting a thin sheet of drywall. The resulting small fragments quickly lose their energy. Bullet selection plays a part in this, but even the toughest FMJ bullet tends to virtually disintegrate when it hits wood or drywall at 3,200 fps.

From http://www.steyraug.net/223forcqb.htm:
The FBI study clearly demonstrates the following: (1) that .223 rounds on average, penetrate less human tissue at dose range than the hollow point pistol rounds evaluated, (2) concern for over-penetration of the .223 round, at close range, has been greatly exaggerated, (3) with the exception of soft ballistic garment penetration. the .223 round appears to be relatively safer for employment in CQB events than this hollow point pistol bullets tested.

One other note: electronic hearing protectors would be a good thing regardless of firearm used.

Gnome
06-24-2007, 1:33 PM
I purchased a Remington 870 specifically for Home Defense. I have it loaded with Hornaday TAP 00 Buck. A buddy told me that might be a little too much. Recommended I switch to birdshot for HD. Less chance of wall penetration.

The great shotgun vs handgun for HD debate. Manuverability is less than that of a handgun, but more of an effective range with the shotgun. Also, any law enforcement officer will tell that the distictive sound of shotgun being "racked" is enough to ward off most would- be criminals.

proraptor
06-24-2007, 6:16 PM
My dad says the only racking sound you should make is the sound of the first round being pushed into the chamber....Not only are you making the sound but you are loading a round at the same time....He also said use buckshot and slugs

M. Sage
06-24-2007, 6:46 PM
I purchased a Remington 870 specifically for Home Defense. I have it loaded with Hornaday TAP 00 Buck. A buddy told me that might be a little too much. Recommended I switch to birdshot for HD. Less chance of wall penetration.

The great shotgun vs handgun for HD debate. Manuverability is less than that of a handgun, but more of an effective range with the shotgun. Also, any law enforcement officer will tell that the distictive sound of shotgun being "racked" is enough to ward off most would- be criminals.

Don't use birdshot, it won't penetrate deeply enough on a BG. Under-penetration is your enemy. You might get wounding from birdshot 2 inches deep. Not deep enough. You want 12 inches.

Slugs abso-freaking-lutely rock. I DROPPED a deer by shooting it in the chest with a 20 gauge slug. IMO, a 20 gauge is enough for HD... If I can kill Michigan whitetail with it, it'll down a person.

If you have to debate between handgun and shotgun for HD, go with one of each, IMO. Toss the wife/GF the shottie, and you take point with the pistol. Of course, that means you'll both have to drill together so she won't shoot you in the back by accident.

ryang
06-24-2007, 8:34 PM
Also, any law enforcement officer will tell that the distictive sound of shotgun being "racked" is enough to ward off most would- be criminals.Please don't try to resurrect this dead horse. People scoff at "gansta pistol holds" yet somehow the idea of confronting an intruder with an unloaded firearm lives on.

M. Sage
06-24-2007, 9:09 PM
Please don't try to resurrect this dead horse. People scoff at "gansta pistol holds" yet somehow the idea of confronting an intruder with an unloaded firearm lives on.

+1 to that and what Proraptor said. They get to hear the first round go into the chamber (only because the wife doesn't like leaving guns sitting around with rounds in the chamber...). If they decide not to leave under their own power at that point, well...

highmeh
06-24-2007, 9:55 PM
My Home Defense Shotgun. Just finished it a week or two ago.

- remington 870 express magnum receiver
- wood stock set
- 18.5" bbl by Mossberg
- scattergun technologies +2 w/sling strap attachment.

Handles great, looks classy, and small enough to maneuver around inside a house.

Gnome
06-25-2007, 4:06 AM
So do you think I'm okay with 00 Buck? I bought the Hornaday TAP. Kinda pricey, but I heard it was a decent HD round. Low flash and recoil is what my buddy said.

wildcard
06-25-2007, 9:04 AM
So do you think I'm okay with 00 Buck? I bought the Hornaday TAP. Kinda pricey, but I heard it was a decent HD round. Low flash and recoil is what my buddy said.

If that's what you're concerned about.. take some out to the desert at night and give it a try (unless you have access to a range that'll let you shoot at night or in the dark). Don't matter if it's expensive or cheap.. you'll have to burn through some so YOU KNOW what is like.. especially if you're trusting your life to it. Should be good stuff though. And 00 Buck is fine.. generally considered the standard.. but some prefer #1 shot for more projectiles and reduced probability of over penetration.

randy
06-26-2007, 1:24 AM
Let me get this ammo thing figured out. It's a home defense gun you are shooting it inside your house unless you've got a giant home chances are your longest shot will be less than 40 feet. (at that range he/she better be armed or you are in big trouble.)

That gives you about a 13" pattern still well within a torso shot of 9 or 12 pellets of almost 9mm size traveling faster than a 9mm. Do you really need some expensive whiz bang ammo. You bet if you like it it's your $$$ for me any factory buck or slug is good enough and you can afford to practice with it too.

wearemisled
06-26-2007, 6:40 AM
Let me get this ammo thing figured out. It's a home defense gun you are shooting it inside your house unless you've got a giant home chances are your longest shot will be less than 40 feet. (at that range he/she better be armed or you are in big trouble.)

That gives you about a 13" pattern still well within a torso shot of 9 or 12 pellets of almost 9mm size traveling faster than a 9mm. Do you really need some expensive whiz bang ammo. You bet if you like it it's your $$$ for me any factory buck or slug is good enough and you can afford to practice with it too.

I agree, any buck or slug will annihilate any human being. All you have to do is google shotgun wounds. Having shot a few slugs through certain objects I can't even imagine what that would do to a persons body! :43: