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Adam25
11-14-2011, 10:31 PM
Just curious, what do you guys believe is the biggest threat to the United States? Personally, mine is an air bust nuke detonation and emp damage...One Second After was a hell of a book...After reading some of the the threads in this section I can tell you guys are way ahead of the average person when it comes to being ready for anything. Im starting to get into this mentally and just dont want to be caught off guard. Cheers. Adam

VytamenC Tactical
11-14-2011, 11:00 PM
depends where your at in the country. cali earthquake, east coast hurricane, even a power grid shut down, anthrax in the water

ExAcHog
11-15-2011, 8:59 AM
My thinking:
1. Major Earthquake
2. Flooding ( Our piss-poor Sacramento area levies)
3. Cival Unrest
4. EMP/War
5. Well duh, ZOMBIES!

But....I also prep for the instance that my wife and I both lose our jobs/are unable to work.

Oceanbob
11-15-2011, 9:26 AM
Here in Southern Californistan number one would be a 9.2 (the big one) quake.

This event would shut down normal life for several weeks or months.

And there would be plenty of uncontrolled fires, looting and civil unrest to deal with.

(remember that some of San Diego County lost power a few months back? that simple 'Grid Problem' caused major problems with gridlock, no ATM, no street lights, no stores could operate their credit card machines..something so simple caused a big problem.)

Number two (in my mind) would be a Terrorist Nuke detonation. That too would be a SHTF event of out-of-control proportions. The entire country would shut down, all flights cancelled and grounded, looting, roaming gangs of hungry people, no medical assistance, no emergency help on the horizon, you would be on your own.

Both events are entirely possible and a prudent person should always have a Plan B to survive.

It can't hurt having a years supply of whatever it takes to survive.

Be well, Bob

swilson
11-15-2011, 9:33 AM
depends where your at in the country. cali earthquake, east coast hurricane, even a power grid shut down, anthrax in the water

Don't forget massive dry brush wildfires during fire season across the entire southwest, which would go completely unchecked without firefighters if they weren't available. Even now being well-funded and staffed they have a hell of a time managing them and trying to keep them away from populated areas. This could either be a primary or secondary event. Imagine just the panic it would cause, with everyone trying to escape the fires and smoke sending refugees across the nation, and how much of the US and Mexico the smoke would encompass.

11HE9
11-15-2011, 9:42 AM
In no particular order...

Nationally-

Economic turmoil, "robbing Peter to pay Paul" can't last forever.

A major terrorist attack. I feel a dirty bomb is not far from happening, most likely in New York or DC.

War in the middle east (again), which would put oil through the roof.

Power grid failure. I think equipment failure is very likely. EMP is a possibility, but I think it would most likely be the result of solar activity not a nuke.


Local-

Economic turmoil and civil unrest.




I live in a fairly safe and stable area. My only "natural disaster" I can see effecting me might be a grass fire. On that note, I'm fanatical about keeping the area around the house mowed down to stubble. I'm the type that sees a scenario on tv news and ponders, "Am I prepared for that?". I just don't want to be the guy seen on the evening news with HELP spelled out on my roof ;).

ginman
11-15-2011, 9:45 AM
1. earthquake, will happen one day
2. nuclear event, could quite possibly happen, scary thing is i see this being the event that would take down the American empire

Benster
11-15-2011, 10:20 AM
My thinking:
1. Major Earthquake
2. Flooding ( Our piss-poor Sacramento area levies)
3. Cival Unrest
4. EMP/War
5. Well duh, ZOMBIES!

But....I also prep for the instance that my wife and I both lose our jobs/are unable to work.

of course 5 will happen.
lol.

johnthomas
11-15-2011, 10:24 AM
The earth is in constant change, they are finding civilizations thousands of years older buried beneath the ground, than previously thought. The thinking is, small subtle earth changes didn't do this. Every 10,000 years or so, something massive happens, and nature takes complete charge.
Other than that, I have to agree with the members here. EMP, terrorist attack, Nuclear attack or just plain old civil unrest due to the economy.
http://suburbanprepper.wordpress.com/

rp55
11-15-2011, 10:59 AM
We live in interesting times. The best description I have heard is that some morning we will wake up and it will August 1914 again. A minor, seemingly insignificant event will occur in some obscure backwater and change the world.

We are witnessing the collapse of the Euro. It is going down, all the remains to be seen is if it will be an orderly collapse or an uncontrolled disintegration. This will prop up the dollar for some time as people seek a safe haven but it will be an illusion. The US dollar in it's current configuration of Federal Reserve Notes, a debt based fiat currency, will inevitably follow the Euro into he graveyard of dead currencies. With all the electronic programmed trading it will be quick probably over in 48 hours. Then what?

Here's a couple of simple little exercises.

First, walk into any retail outlet be it Costco, Walmart, Target or similar. Look at the origin of the bulk of the goods. Where they come from is not important. What is important is where they do not come from? The US. Where will that stuff come from when the sellers no longer wants US dollars?

Second, walk into a grocery store and look around. How much food is in there? If it is your usual suburban outlet there is 3 days worth of food in there.

Almost every product you buy is distributed by a "Just In Time" or JIT system. You ever notice how when a hurricane hits the Gulf you watch the news and see all those gas stations with "Out of Gas" signs? Ever wonder why that is? The retail information is aggregated and analyzed and used to schedule refinery runs and delivery routes and schedules. Chevron, just to pick an example, can pretty well predict how much gas a given station will sell on any given day based on historical demand. Included in that demand data is the fact that most people drive around with their tank half full. The oil companies deliver just enough gas to meet that predicted demand. They don't want money sitting around in underground tanks. I have heard it said that if merely 10% of vehicle owners decide to drive around with their tanks full it throws the whole analysis out the window and you get the "Out of Gas" signs. I worked as a gas station attendant in 1973 and can tell you from personal experience that this kind of critical disruption can happen almost overnight.

So there's a shock to the system some where, maybe only a minor jolt. It doesn't have to be a big one. In the mid-80's Ford used to have an assembly plant in Kansas City. One day a plane delivering parts crashed. All that was on the plane was truck axles being shipped in from Michigan but because of JIT they had to shut down the entire line and it took them months to get it running correctly again.

So there's 3 days worth of food in Supermarkets, delivered there just in time by trucks that get their fuel just in time. Think about that? Think about our urban areas populated to no small extent by what is best described as an "appalling underclass." What happens when the food isn't there?

The Romans had a term panem et circenses (http://www.capitolium.org/eng/imperatori/circenses.htm) that translates as bread and circuses (games). It is a metaphor for the superficial method of appeasing the masses to distract them with immediate shallow gratification. So what happens with Joe Six Pack when his just in time delivered Budweiser isn't there and there's no NFL/NASCAR/UFC? or WTF there to keep him in a coma because there's no electricity or the Emergency Warning System (that they coincidentally just tested) or whatever they call it these days has been activated because of civil unrest in the cities or the teams cannot travel because of problems in the cities?

If you're thinking of bugging out I suggest you watch last Sunday's episode of "Walking Dead." The flashback the woman had of being stuck on a road is very instructive. California is so susceptible to that sort of event that preppers have a term for it; the Golden Horde. Golden State/Golden Horde get it? The worst place you could ever be is on a road in California when the refugees/looters decamp the densely populated metropolitan areas.

Anyway, to summarize all of the above. I suspect that some unforeseen event will trigger a collapse of the whole house of cards. It may well be recovered from quickly and order reestablished.

I expect the best method of coping is to shelter in place with food and water for maybe a week or two and some means of defense. It doesn't have to be the latest greatest piece of tactical equipment. A Mosin from Big 5 will probably work just as well. Remember what Lenin said "One man with a gun can control 100 without one." You don't really want to shoot anyone just make yourself a harder target so they go after your unarmed neighbor instead. As for the neighbors, screw them. If they were voting for socialist progressives (and statistically they did) then they should have armed themselves, to paraphrase William Munny in Unforgiven.

Now you'll hear people say that gold and/or silver is no good in SHTF situation. They're right but it's only half the story. These things eventually end and for better or worse society sorts itself out. Precious metals preserve your wealth through an event. You'd have to be an imbecile to think Federal Reserve Units will have any value whatsoever after whatever disruption is coming but, as the man on TV says; "Gold has never been worth zero."

VictorFranko
11-15-2011, 11:19 AM
Here in Southern Californistan number one would be a 9.2 (the big one) quake.

This event would shut down normal life for several weeks or months.

And there would be plenty of uncontrolled fires, looting and civil unrest to deal with.


Water services would be devastated.
Supermarket shelves would be empty in hours.
Gridlocked roads due to no power and under/overpass collapses.
Imagine LA/SFV/OC with no food or water.

KevinB
11-15-2011, 11:45 AM
All natural disasters are going to be regional and will be dealt with by the rest of the U.S. accordingly.

Failure of the government will bring about untold grief. The loss of faith in our currency will bring about great strife. Farmers won't farm and energy will be non existent. We will soon return to a life like we had in the US 120 years ago and a resulting population.

We had people starve to death during the first depression in the 1930ies. We were a much better society then we are now.

Ripon83
11-15-2011, 12:54 PM
If I lived in So Cal I'd probably put earthquake first. As it is I live in the valley and while flooding is possible its happened in the past and hardly disrupts me for where I live.

One Second After was a terrific book, but I think the ability to bring power back on line was largely discounted. I do think they'll bring the system back in place before a year. Also my location in the Central Valley produces plenty of farming or if its really that bad bugging out is possible for me so I'm not that concerned.

When Obama decided to dump Quadaffi I thought - if I were Quadaffi - I'd try to dump the US Govt. I'm surprised he didn't go after Europe or the US. I think the devastation caused by a 100 to 200 well trained soldiers who crossed our southern (or northern) border would be dramatic on our nation. They could plummet us into chaos economically in no time - particularly over a weekend like Thanksgiving. Retailers depending on a $45 billion weekend....what if that didn't happen?

Eljay
11-15-2011, 2:09 PM
I think if you're prepped for a major earthquake (7 days shelter in place + bug out bag in case of major fires) you're pretty much there for most regional scenarios. For a smallish nuke in the nearest city you might want to have some understanding of fallout and how much time you have to seal the house up as best you can and what amount of time it takes for the worst of the radiation to go away, plus some extra goodies like the stuff to seal the house and some iodine tablets and so forth. It's nothing expensive if you get it while people aren't scared so you might as well.

Given prepping for the above and some basic home defense gear I think you're covered for any realistic regional event. If you want to talk national/global and mountain retreats and all that, that's a whole different kind of prepping and I'm not convinced the risk is enough to justify the costs of doing that.

SDM44
11-15-2011, 2:21 PM
My thinking:
1. Major Earthquake
2. Flooding ( Our piss-poor Sacramento area levies)
3. Cival Unrest
4. EMP/War
5. Well duh, ZOMBIES!
of course 5 will happen.
lol.


In this day & age, I wouldn't doubt it. And IMO, I'd rather see scenarios 1-4 first.

I'm not talking about the undead coming back and roaming the earth, that's blasphemy! Rather, I'm talking about a medical issue or some type of uncontrollable disease outbreak that spreads like wildfire, especially when there's no working cure for it. There's lots of movies based on this type of scenario (Outbreak, Resident Evil, etc), where you have governments or private companies make these weaponized viruses, and it eventually overwhelms them and takes over.

For those people who get infected from something like this and who will die soon, they are considered the 'walking dead' and are pretty much like zombies. It's either you kill them, or they infect you and you die.

thenodnarb
11-15-2011, 2:27 PM
personally I'm prepping for economic collapse.

undercow16969
11-15-2011, 2:33 PM
personally I'm prepping for economic collapse.

I'm a country boy, i think i will be good on food, shelter and what not. now the zombie apocalypse, thats a little different. (starts a new thread)

ireload
11-15-2011, 2:43 PM
1. The "Big Quake" that's due.

2. San Onofre nuclear power plant having a major crisis due to tsunami like Fukashima

CessnaDriver
11-15-2011, 2:59 PM
Probably not in our lifetimes, but if he Yellowstone caldera pops again, that's about as bad as it can get short of some cosmic event.

Sleighter
11-15-2011, 3:39 PM
I think one disaster possibility those of us in Southern Ca. disregard too easily is the damage that could be caused by a combination of an earthquake taking out emergency response resources, coupled with a wildfire fueled by the Santa Ana winds. Fires are only contained by extensive combined resources and air support. If Air support were taken away and any meaningful resources could be gathered, fires could sweep through the mountains making a "mountain retreat" a terrible idea and putting tremendous strain on cities.

Not to mention that a fire throughout a city without the water resources to fight it would be devastating.

problemchild
11-15-2011, 4:04 PM
We live in interesting times. The best description I have heard is that some morning we will wake up and it will August 1914 again. A minor, seemingly insignificant event will occur in some obscure backwater and change the world.

We are witnessing the collapse of the Euro. It is going down, all the remains to be seen is if it will be an orderly collapse or an uncontrolled disintegration. This will prop up the dollar for some time as people seek a safe haven but it will be an illusion. The US dollar in it's current configuration of Federal Reserve Notes, a debt based fiat currency, will inevitably follow the Euro into he graveyard of dead currencies. With all the electronic programmed trading it will be quick probably over in 48 hours. Then what?

Here's a couple of simple little exercises.

First, walk into any retail outlet be it Costco, Walmart, Target or similar. Look at the origin of the bulk of the goods. Where they come from is not important. What is important is where they do not come from? The US. Where will that stuff come from when the sellers no longer wants US dollars?

Second, walk into a grocery store and look around. How much food is in there? If it is your usual suburban outlet there is 3 days worth of food in there.

Almost every product you buy is distributed by a "Just In Time" or JIT system. You ever notice how when a hurricane hits the Gulf you watch the news and see all those gas stations with "Out of Gas" signs? Ever wonder why that is? The retail information is aggregated and analyzed and used to schedule refinery runs and delivery routes and schedules. Chevron, just to pick an example, can pretty well predict how much gas a given station will sell on any given day based on historical demand. Included in that demand data is the fact that most people drive around with their tank half full. The oil companies deliver just enough gas to meet that predicted demand. They don't want money sitting around in underground tanks. I have heard it said that if merely 10% of vehicle owners decide to drive around with their tanks full it throws the whole analysis out the window and you get the "Out of Gas" signs. I worked as a gas station attendant in 1973 and can tell you from personal experience that this kind of critical disruption can happen almost overnight.

So there's a shock to the system some where, maybe only a minor jolt. It doesn't have to be a big one. In the mid-80's Ford used to have an assembly plant in Kansas City. One day a plane delivering parts crashed. All that was on the plane was truck axles being shipped in from Michigan but because of JIT they had to shut down the entire line and it took them months to get it running correctly again.

So there's 3 days worth of food in Supermarkets, delivered there just in time by trucks that get their fuel just in time. Think about that? Think about our urban areas populated to no small extent by what is best described as an "appalling underclass." What happens when the food isn't there?

The Romans had a term panem et circenses (http://www.capitolium.org/eng/imperatori/circenses.htm) that translates as bread and circuses (games). It is a metaphor for the superficial method of appeasing the masses to distract them with immediate shallow gratification. So what happens with Joe Six Pack when his just in time delivered Budweiser isn't there and there's no NFL/NASCAR/UFC? or WTF there to keep him in a coma because there's no electricity or the Emergency Warning System (that they coincidentally just tested) or whatever they call it these days has been activated because of civil unrest in the cities or the teams cannot travel because of problems in the cities?

If you're thinking of bugging out I suggest you watch last Sunday's episode of "Walking Dead." The flashback the woman had of being stuck on a road is very instructive. California is so susceptible to that sort of event that preppers have a term for it; the Golden Horde. Golden State/Golden Horde get it? The worst place you could ever be is on a road in California when the refugees/looters decamp the densely populated metropolitan areas.

Anyway, to summarize all of the above. I suspect that some unforeseen event will trigger a collapse of the whole house of cards. It may well be recovered from quickly and order reestablished.

I expect the best method of coping is to shelter in place with food and water for maybe a week or two and some means of defense. It doesn't have to be the latest greatest piece of tactical equipment. A Mosin from Big 5 will probably work just as well. Remember what Lenin said "One man with a gun can control 100 without one." You don't really want to shoot anyone just make yourself a harder target so they go after your unarmed neighbor instead. As for the neighbors, screw them. If they were voting for socialist progressives (and statistically they did) then they should have armed themselves, to paraphrase William Munny in Unforgiven.

Now you'll hear people say that gold and/or silver is no good in SHTF situation. They're right but it's only half the story. These things eventually end and for better or worse society sorts itself out. Precious metals preserve your wealth through an event. You'd have to be an imbecile to think Federal Reserve Units will have any value whatsoever after whatever disruption is coming but, as the man on TV says; "Gold has never been worth zero."

Grocery store = 30 minutes

Lots of good info here.

Sanderhawk
11-15-2011, 4:16 PM
If anything a good size earthquake here in socal. We had a wildfire get pretty close a few years ago.

I think if a terrorist were to drop a nuke it would be on New York. They figure thats our financial core for this country. I don`t think there is anything in cali they would want to nuke.

BuckleNose
11-15-2011, 4:23 PM
^^^^ Agreed

Oceanbob
11-15-2011, 4:30 PM
If anything a good size earthquake here in socal. We had a wildfire get pretty close a few years ago.

I think if a terrorist were to drop a nuke it would be on New York. They figure thats our financial core for this country. I don`t think there is anything in cali they would want to nuke.

New York might be a prime target but a Terrorist with a boxed NUKE could easily get that box into TJ, just south of San Diego and the Naval Base.

No border crossing required. Pull the plug and it would take out all of San Diego.

JMO

SDM44
11-15-2011, 4:30 PM
I think if a terrorist were to drop a nuke it would be on New York. They figure thats our financial core for this country. I don`t think there is anything in cali they would want to nuke.

Even if somebody did want to nuke Cali, I would think LA would be the first place.... which unfortunately I would be in the blast radius.

Next would be SF, then maybe Sac. If you're in Central CA or towards the foothills, then you have nothing to worry about :p

TheChief
11-15-2011, 4:31 PM
Besides the normal spate of natural disasters, EMP or viral outbreak. Too many countries don't like us.

pkbirdog
11-15-2011, 4:57 PM
What is EMP?

Adam25
11-15-2011, 5:03 PM
ElectroMagnetic Pulse that is generated by the detonation of a nuclear device that fries most electronic devices or anything with a chip.

OHOD
11-15-2011, 5:13 PM
I'm thinking two major categories.

1. Natural disaster; earthquakes, tsunamis, meteor impact, hurricanes.
2. Humans causing the disaster; World War, Terrorism, Nuclear detonation.

There, I think I covered everything.

stix213
11-15-2011, 5:18 PM
Hyperinflation caused by the world dumping the dollar as their reserve currency.

chris
11-15-2011, 5:23 PM
earthquake should be on everyones mind that lives in So Cal and the state in general. we know that this will happen. when is another story.

zombies oh hell yeah.

problemchild
11-15-2011, 5:50 PM
Hyperinflation caused by the world dumping the dollar as their reserve currency.

Beck says we arent far away from the coming problem. He has been right plenty enough over the last few years to at least listen to what he says.

11HE9
11-15-2011, 7:42 PM
Beck says we arent far away from the coming problem. He has been right plenty enough over the last few years to at least listen to what he says.

Many think he is a nut, but I don't ever recall anyone proving him wrong... :TFH:

anthonyca
11-15-2011, 9:10 PM
We live in interesting times. The best description I have heard is that some morning we will wake up and it will August 1914 again. A minor, seemingly insignificant event will occur in some obscure backwater and change the world.

We are witnessing the collapse of the Euro. It is going down, all the remains to be seen is if it will be an orderly collapse or an uncontrolled disintegration. This will prop up the dollar for some time as people seek a safe haven but it will be an illusion. The US dollar in it's current configuration of Federal Reserve Notes, a debt based fiat currency, will inevitably follow the Euro into he graveyard of dead currencies. With all the electronic programmed trading it will be quick probably over in 48 hours. Then what?

Here's a couple of simple little exercises.

First, walk into any retail outlet be it Costco, Walmart, Target or similar. Look at the origin of the bulk of the goods. Where they come from is not important. What is important is where they do not come from? The US. Where will that stuff come from when the sellers no longer wants US dollars?

Second, walk into a grocery store and look around. How much food is in there? If it is your usual suburban outlet there is 3 days worth of food in there.

Almost every product you buy is distributed by a "Just In Time" or JIT system. You ever notice how when a hurricane hits the Gulf you watch the news and see all those gas stations with "Out of Gas" signs? Ever wonder why that is? The retail information is aggregated and analyzed and used to schedule refinery runs and delivery routes and schedules. Chevron, just to pick an example, can pretty well predict how much gas a given station will sell on any given day based on historical demand. Included in that demand data is the fact that most people drive around with their tank half full. The oil companies deliver just enough gas to meet that predicted demand. They don't want money sitting around in underground tanks. I have heard it said that if merely 10% of vehicle owners decide to drive around with their tanks full it throws the whole analysis out the window and you get the "Out of Gas" signs. I worked as a gas station attendant in 1973 and can tell you from personal experience that this kind of critical disruption can happen almost overnight.

So there's a shock to the system some where, maybe only a minor jolt. It doesn't have to be a big one. In the mid-80's Ford used to have an assembly plant in Kansas City. One day a plane delivering parts crashed. All that was on the plane was truck axles being shipped in from Michigan but because of JIT they had to shut down the entire line and it took them months to get it running correctly again.

So there's 3 days worth of food in Supermarkets, delivered there just in time by trucks that get their fuel just in time. Think about that? Think about our urban areas populated to no small extent by what is best described as an "appalling underclass." What happens when the food isn't there?

The Romans had a term panem et circenses (http://www.capitolium.org/eng/imperatori/circenses.htm) that translates as bread and circuses (games). It is a metaphor for the superficial method of appeasing the masses to distract them with immediate shallow gratification. So what happens with Joe Six Pack when his just in time delivered Budweiser isn't there and there's no NFL/NASCAR/UFC? or WTF there to keep him in a coma because there's no electricity or the Emergency Warning System (that they coincidentally just tested) or whatever they call it these days has been activated because of civil unrest in the cities or the teams cannot travel because of problems in the cities?

If you're thinking of bugging out I suggest you watch last Sunday's episode of "Walking Dead." The flashback the woman had of being stuck on a road is very instructive. California is so susceptible to that sort of event that preppers have a term for it; the Golden Horde. Golden State/Golden Horde get it? The worst place you could ever be is on a road in California when the refugees/looters decamp the densely populated metropolitan areas.

Anyway, to summarize all of the above. I suspect that some unforeseen event will trigger a collapse of the whole house of cards. It may well be recovered from quickly and order reestablished.

I expect the best method of coping is to shelter in place with food and water for maybe a week or two and some means of defense. It doesn't have to be the latest greatest piece of tactical equipment. A Mosin from Big 5 will probably work just as well. Remember what Lenin said "One man with a gun can control 100 without one." You don't really want to shoot anyone just make yourself a harder target so they go after your unarmed neighbor instead. As for the neighbors, screw them. If they were voting for socialist progressives (and statistically they did) then they should have armed themselves, to paraphrase William Munny in Unforgiven.

Now you'll hear people say that gold and/or silver is no good in SHTF situation. They're right but it's only half the story. These things eventually end and for better or worse society sorts itself out. Precious metals preserve your wealth through an event. You'd have to be an imbecile to think Federal Reserve Units will have any value whatsoever after whatever disruption is coming but, as the man on TV says; "Gold has never been worth zero."

This man gets it. I would just like to add some of my observations. I don't know anyone who has lived through an emp blast or nuclear bomb. I indirectly know Russians and Japanese who have lived through nuclear disasters, and surprisingly, the SHTF was not as wide spread as most thought it would be. That is not to make lite of the situations and those who suffered. But it was not a mass SHTF like we plan for.

Now for some real SHTF, where I personally know people that lived through those terrible times. From when I was a kid, I remember older family members and their friends talking about the holocaust, WWII, the depression, and Mussolini in Italy.

I know people now who lived through Bosnia, Mexico, Argentina collapse, and the Russian collapse. What was the common theme in all of those? Economic collapse.

Of the thousands of nukes only two have been blown up outside of testing, of the thousands of fiat currencies, none have not blown up and caused a severe wealth transfer. My money is betting on an economic problem leading to some form of SHTF.

I hope they keep it together and we beat the odds.

Capt.Dunsel
11-15-2011, 9:26 PM
If anything a good size earthquake here in socal. We had a wildfire get pretty close a few years ago.

I think if a terrorist were to drop a nuke it would be on New York. They figure thats our financial core for this country. I don`t think there is anything in cali they would want to nuke.

Onizuka Base ( Blue Cube) in Santa Clara , SF ( finacial center) and a few other places. FAA buliding in Fremont , CA handles air traffic for west coast Alaska and Hawaii.
The "Blue Cube" handles the military communications , good enough target for ya?

We are all targets or near enough , but why destroy with nukes , you can't live there or use it for awhile after ( a good long while)

Natural disasters would/will be what would do it , as well as economic and that ain't to far off.

SDM44
11-15-2011, 9:39 PM
ElectroMagnetic Pulse that is generated by the detonation of a nuclear device that fries most electronic devices or anything with a chip.

What if there was no power to the chip, the device is not grounded, and no current flowing through an electronic device. Would an EMP still render it disabled?

One main thing that would suck if it was disabled would be a flashlight. Would leaving batteries out, but next to it, still keep the flashlight alive during an EMP? Would this idea hold true for other electronic devices, if they're unplugged with no batteries or capacitors in them holding any power and they were not grounded?

Sorry for getting OT.

Adam25
11-15-2011, 11:12 PM
What if there was no power to the chip, the device is not grounded, and no current flowing through an electronic device. Would an EMP still render it disabled?



Im no expert on electronics, but as far as i know flashlight and basic stuff like that are solid state electronics and would still work. Anybody with more knowledge than I have anything to add on EMP studies? All it would take is one nuke to be detonated over North America to wipe out all the electronics from coast to coast, most cars would be useless beause of the computers that run them, older models like up to the 70's would still run (kinda makes me want to restore an International Scout) There are ways to harden electronics and protect them but the cost of doing this caused companies to now bother.
I pulled this off the website of the author of "One Second After" He did severals years of research before writing his book:

“EMP 101” A BASIC PRIMER & SUGGESTIONS FOR PREPAREDNESS

By

William R. Forstchen Ph.D.

Author of “One Second After”



WHAT IS AN EMP?


EMP is shorthand for Electro Magnetic Pulse. It is a rather unusual and frightening by-product when a nuclear bomb is detonated above the earth’s atmosphere. We all know that our atmosphere and the magnetic field which surrounds our planet is a thin layer which not only keeps us alive, but also protects us from dangerous radiation from the sun. On a fairly regular basis there are huge solar storms on the sun’s surface which emit powerful jets of deadly radiation. If not for the protective layer of our atmosphere and magnetic field, those storms would fry us. At times though, the storm is so power that enough disruptive energy reaches the earth’s surface that it drowns out radio waves and even shorts electrical power grids. . .this happened seve ral years back in Canada.
View the detonation of a nuclear bomb, two hundred miles straight up as the same thing, but infinitely more powerful since it is so close by.
As the bomb explodes it emits a powerful wave of gamma rays. As this energy release hits the upper atmosphere it creates a electrical disturbance know as the Compton Effect. The intensity is magnified. View it as a small pebble rolling down a slope, hitting a larger one, setting that in motion, until finally you have an avalanche.
At the speed of light this disturbance races to the earth surface. It is not something you can see or hear, in the same way you don’t feel the electrical disturbance in the atmosphere during20a large solar storm.
For all electrical systems though, it is deadly.

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THIS “PULSE” HITS THE SURFACE?

Those who might remember ham radio operators, or even the old CB radios of the 1970s can recall that if you ran out a wire as an antenna you could send and receive a better signal. The wire not only transmitted the very faint power of a few watts of electricity from your radio, it could receive even fainted signals in return. As the Pulse strikes the earths surface, with a power that could range up to hundreds of amps per square yard, it will not affect you directly, at most you’ll feel a slight tingling, the s ame as when lightning is about to strike close by, and nearly all the energy will just be absorbed into the ground and dissipate. The bad news, however, is wherever it strikes wires, metal surfaces, antennas, power lines it will now travel along those metal surfaces (in the same way a lightning bolt will always follow the metal of a lightning rod, or the power line into your house.) The longer the wire, the more energy is absorbed, a high tension wire miles long will absorb tens of thousands of amps, and here is where the destruction begins as it slams into any delicate electronic circuits, meaning computer chips, relays, etc. In that instant, they are overloaded by the massive energy surge, short circuit, and fry. Your house via electric, phone and cable wires is connected, like all the rest of us into the power and communications grids. This energy surge will destroy all delicate electronics in your home, even as it destroys all the major components all the way back to the power company’s generators and the phone company’s main relays. In far less than a milli second the entire power grid of the United States, and all that it supports will be destroyed.

WOULDN”T CIRCUIT BREAKERS AND SURGE PROTECTORS STOP IT?

This is where the effect of EMP starts to get complex. All electricity travels, of course, at the speed of light. The circuit breakers that are built into our electrical system or the ones you buy to plug your own computer in to, are designed to “read’ the flow of current. If it suddenly exceeds a certain level, the breaker snaps and takes you off line, thus protecting everything beyond it. More than a few of us have found out that when you buy a cheap surge protector for ten or twenty bucks sure it will snap off, but the surge has already passed through and fried your expensive pla sma television or new computer. Unlike a lightning strike, or other power surge, an EMP surge is “front loaded.” Meaning it doesn’t do a build up for a couple of mirco-seconds, allowing enough time for the circuit breaker to “read” that trouble is on the way and shut down. It comes instead like a wall of energy, without any advance wave building up as a warning. It therefore slams through nearly all commercial and even military surge protectors already in place, and is past the “safety barrier” and into the delicate electronics before the system has time to react.

WHAT ABOUT CARS?


Here is more bad news regarding EMP. =2 0If you own a 1965 Volkswagen bug or Mustange you’re ok. . .there are no solid state electronics under the hood, it still has an old fashion carburetor, the radio still might even have tubes rather than transistors. However, even that is in question. In 1962 both we and the Soviets detonated nuclear weapons in space (saber rattling during the Cuban Missile Crisis) and it is reported that a number of cars. . .their ignition systems a thousand miles away from the detonation were fried because of EMP. (Check out a few of the more “tech head” links on this site for detailed explanations). From about 1980 on, cars increasingly went solid state and by the 1990s were getting ever more complex computers installed. Consider a visit to the mechanic today. He runs a wire in under the hood, plugs it into his computer and within seconds has a full diagnostic, types in what his computer is suppose to do, the problem is solved and you are handed a rather large bill. Great modern conveniences from airbag sensors, to fuel injectors and all of it more and more dependent on computers. At the instant the “Pulse” strikes, the body of your car and the radio antenna will feed the overload into your vehicle’s computer and short it out.
Some police departments are even now experimenting with using a specially designed bumper on their car for high speed chases. If they can brush up against the car they are pursuing the officer just hits a button, and through his bumper a high energy surge will be released, flooding into the car being pursued and shorting out its computer system. Result. . .whether you are being chased by the police with this new device, or an EMP burst has been fired off. . .your car will essentially be a useless hunk of metal that will slowly roll to a stop. In that instant, most of America will be on foot again.


AND PLANES?

This is a terrifying aspect of an attack that no government report has publicly discussed along with the potential casualty rate in the first seconds after an attack. Commercial airliners today are all computer driven. In fact, from lift off to landing, a pilot no longer even needs to be in the cockpit, a computer can do all of it if need be. When the pilot pulls back on the “stick” it is no longer connect by wires stretching all the way back to the tail and the elevator assembly. Instead, his motion is read by a computer which sends a signal to an electrical servo-motor in the tail, which then moves the tail. In short, the entire plane is computer driven. It is estimated that at any given moment during regular business hours, somewhere between three to four thousand commercial airliners are crisscrossing the skies. (There is a fascinating site you can find via Goggle that shows typical air traffic around the world during a twenty four hour period. From dawn til way after dusk, the entire USA is one glowing blob of commercial flights crisscrossing our sky). All of them would be doomed, the pilots sitting impotent, staring at blank computer screens, pulling on controls that no longer respond as the plane finally noses over and heads in.
Somewhere between 250,000 to 500,000 people will die in the first few minutes. . .more than all our battle casualties across four years of World War II

Adam25
11-15-2011, 11:14 PM
AREN”T WE PREPARING? ISN’T THERE REPLACEMENT EQUIPMENT IN PLACE AND TRAINED PERSONNEL READY TO REACT?


The frightening answer is no. This author has spent over four years researching this topic, interviewing scores of personnel from Congressmen and Generals, to your local police chief and sheriff. At your local level, since 9/11, first responders have received hundreds of hours of training and briefings on all sorts of terrorist scenarios. Only a few have told me that they even discussed the topic for more than a few minutes at an official level. As to emergency stockpiles of supplies and crucial replacement parts, there is nothing in place.

WHY NOT?

EMP, has managed to “stealth” its way on to the highly dangerous list and few, except for a small number of personnel in the Pentagon, various research labs, and men like Congressman Bartlett (R., MD) who heads the Congressional Investigative Committee on EMP, are aware of it. For one it has a certain “sci-fi” sound to it, which makes many dismiss the potential before the discussion has even started. Second, the only way to truly evaluate the threat and demonstrate it is to detonate a nuclear weapon, something we have not done since the full test ban went into effect decades ago. It is therefore not “visible” to us, the way another airliner smashing into a skyscraper is now forever imprinted on our national psyche, feared, and prepared for. Next, with all the competing issues and threats in the world, EMP simply does not have a “constituency” of influence. Only a few members of Congress, our military and scientific community are issuing the warnings. There are no Hollywood stars placing themselves in front of cameras with this as their cause, the few times it has been used in popular movies, it has been portrayed inaccurately, often absurdly.
And finally, the impact is so overwhelming=2 0that it triggers a psychological sense of helplessness, and therefore why bother, since if it happens we are finished. It is the same response that happened between the 1950s-60s. When first confronted with the threat of a nuclear attack, tens of billions was spent to prepare, in fact our Interstate Highway system was initiated in the mid 1950s as a national defense effort to provide avenues of escape from cities in the event of nuclear war, a means to bring in emergency supplies and to move our military. Plans were issued to citizens on how to build bomb shelters and all children were drilled in what is seen now as the absurd “duck and cover.”
Something happened though by the mid-1960s. The threat was no longer fifty to a hundred small atomic bombs dropped from bombers, it was now a rain of thousands of hydrogen bombs, delivered within minutes by ballistic missiles. In this atmosphere of overkill, attempting to prepare seemed ridiculous, futile. The standard phrase became “the living will envy the dead,” so why bother? Civil defense finally became an object of derision, the realm of a few survivalist nut cases.
That threat is still there, and to this day our nuclear forces stand ready to respond, which has indeed been the only defense left. . .”if you nuke us, we’ll nuke you,” a policy known as “mutual assured destruction,” a zero win game.
EMP is different, it is not a rain of thousands of bombs, needing a vast and powerful military to deliver it, which means Russia and China are the only real threats in that realm. . .but unless seized by madness, their leaders know such an attack, within minutes would be met with thousands of bombs annihilating their country as well. It is a balance of terror that has now endured for nearly sixty years.
An EMP attack is different since it only requires but one nuclear weapon, detonated 300 miles above the middle of the United States. One bomb. The launch could even be done from a container ship somewhere in the Gulf of Mexico and in that instant, the war is already over and won.

An analogy. Aircraft carriers existed in 1941 but few saw them as a true strategic threat. Most in the military and their civilian leaders saw the role of carriers as platforms for launching scout planes, spotting targets, and acting always in support of the trusted and proven battleship. No one seriously considered the potential of putting half a dozen such carriers into one group and launching a full out attack in the opening minutes of a war. We all know what changed that belief forever, but by then, it was too late for the nearly 3,000 Americans who were killed on that Day of Infamy. The next Day of Infamy will be infinitely worst.

WHO WOULD DO THIS AND WHY?

Given the hatred and fanaticism of some of our enemies today, if they can obtain but one nuclear bomb, the temptation will be there. It does not even have to be a nation such as Iran or North Korea. . .it could be a terrorist cell who with enough money buy the components and then destroy their definition of “the great Satan.”

WHAT WOULD HAPPEN AFTER THE ATTACK?

Unless you are in a jet liner, plummeting to earth, or caught in a massive traffic jam of stalled vehicles on the interstate, you might not even know anything has changed. Sure the power is off, but we’ve all been through that dozens of times. You call the power company. But the phone doesn’t work and that might be slightly more unnerving. You might go to your car to drive around and see what happened and then it becomes more unnerving when the car does not even turn over, nor any other car in your neighborhood.
Twelve hours later the food in your freezer starts to thaw, if it is winter and you don’t have a wood stove the frost will start to penetrate in to your house, if summer and you live in Florida your house will be an oven. And that will just be the start.

Law enforcement will be powerless without radios, cell phones, and squad cars, unable to know where there is a crisis and how to react. The real horror show within hours will be in hospitals and nursing homes. They’re required by law to have back up generators, but those generators are “hot wired” into the building so power can instantly kick in if the main system shuts down. That “hot wiring” means the Electro Magnetic Pulse will take out the generators and their circuitry as well.
If you are familiar with what happened in New Orleans after Katrina, multiply that ten thousand times over to every hospital and nursing home in America. Nearly everyone dependent on life support equipment in ICUs will be dead within hours. Nearly everyone in nursing homes dependent on oxygen generators, respirators, etc., will be dead or dying while depending on the time of year temperatures within plummet or soar.
As to medical supplies, not just in hospitals but across the nation to every local pharmacy, they are all dependent on something called Fed Ex. As we have perfected a remarkable system of instant delivery, guided by computers, local inventories have dropped to be more cost efficient and even for reasons of security with controlled substances, which to ordinary citizens means pain killers. Supplies will run out in a matter of days. Those of us dependent on medications to control asthma, heart disease, diabetes, and a host of other aliments which a hundred years ago would have killed us shortly after the onset. . .will now face death within days or weeks, unless the national power grid comes back on line quickly and order is restored.

HOW LONG WOULD IT TAKE?

Here is the bottom line of the entire issue and why the threat of a single EMP weapon is so dangerous. There is the serious potential that we might never be able to restore the system. One might ask why? It just means replacing some circuit breakers, pulling out fried chips in our cars and replacing them with new ones etc.
It is not that simple. The infrastructure America has developed since the beginnings of the Industrial Age, is now so vast, intricate and fragile, that it is like a delicate spider web, which if touched by a flame can instantly vanish.
A few examples to illustrate what might seem an extreme statement.
The incredibly complex system that creates electricity, starting from a hydro-electric dam, a glowing nuclear reactor, or coal fired plant, leaps through hundreds of circuit breakers, perhaps thousands of miles of wiring, across high tension lines to sub stations, and finally to the outlet your computer is plug into. This single line will now have hundreds of breaks in it, each one having to be replaced.
Any of us who have lived through a major disaster such as a hurricane, ice storm, or tornado, and then gone several days without power know the sequence, h ow much longer the wait seems to be, and then finally the welcome sight of a power company repair truck turning on to your block. . .and that truck might be from a power company five hundred miles away. All our disasters have ultimately been local in nature, Andrew in Florida, Katrina in Louisiana and Mississippi or one this author went through with Ivan in North Carolina. The disaster is local, even if fifty thousand square miles are affected, help streaming in from neighboring states, caravans of power trucks, each carrying not just experienced crews, but ladened down with all the replacement parts necessary to put electricity and phone service back into your house. When Ivan hit my town, dumping 30 inches of rain, wiping out the power grid and water supply, in less than twelve hours thousands of gallons of bottled water had arrived from Charlotte, power companies from Alabama, Tennessee and Virginia were arriving, the special parts needed to replace my town’s shattered water main from the reservoir were air lifted in by a national guard unit.
Consider though if the entire nation is “down.” Quite simply there are not enough replacement parts in the entire nation to even remotely begin the retro-fitting and replacement of all components. Every community will be on its own, struggling to rebuild. . .on their own.

Example two. A member of your family has type one diabetes and if you do have that in your family you know that failure to properly monitor and treat can result in death within a matter of weeks at most. Start with the testing kit. If it is one of the new electronic digital models, changes are a small hand held unit, not plugged into the grid will in fact survive. If it is an older kit that still uses testing stripes and you are running short of those stripes of paper, you already have a problem.
Where does insulin come from? In an earlier age it was literally made from the ground up pancreas of sheep and horses. Today it is manufactured via genetically altered bacteria and cells. There are several such factories across the nation which do this, producing millions of vials a day.
We are not even going to get into the complexity of where do the vials, the rubber seals and such come from. But with the shut down of power the factory goes dark and the complex environmental controls to insure the proper safety of the bacteria “batches” is now off line. Within days it will cease to function for that reason alone.
But it will most likely already be off line. What of the workers? Will t he next shift show up when cars no longer run? Unlikely. And those on the job? No matter how dedicated most must leave within a day to see to their own families and chances are not return.
Of the hundreds of thousands of vials waiting in refrigerated containers for shipping, what happens to the coolant? And where are the trucks to move it? If the insulin is, in fact, already in the “pipeline” so to speak, if aboard a Fed Ex plane we already know that tragic fate. If on a highway it will be stalled. . .and so on to your local pharmacy where the few vials in the current inventory will be snatched up by panicked customers within hours and then hoarded away, regardless of the need of others. And even then, how will you keep the insulin temperature stabilized and when that fails, how swiftly does the potency drop?

echo1
11-16-2011, 10:21 AM
My feelings are that it's going to be something from left field, combined with a series of daisy-chaining events. Economic destabilization where the international bad guys sieze the opprtunity to "strike", pushing the "just in time mode" over the edge, soccer moms gone feral, So-cal gang bangers run rampant (they are well armed and organized), two weeks in, THEN THE BIG ONE HITS, in a couple places, Cascadia & New Madras, then the Poles shift polarity just as a solor storm flares. Did I mention it would be in the dead of the coldest winter ever recorded in the Northern Hemisphere? PAX

undercow16969
11-16-2011, 10:32 AM
Next would be SF, then maybe Sac. If you're in Central CA or towards the foothills, then you have nothing to worry about :p

#Book of Eli

tom1850
11-16-2011, 10:44 AM
Regardless of the catastrophe ... two weeks without power and Hello Katrina!

The cops go home to protect their families and you are on your own.

Bizcuits
11-16-2011, 12:35 PM
Most realistic possibility?

Economic melt down turn into long term social unrest. No I don't mean rioting in the streets for 2-3 years. I mean cops who are only re-active, corrupt and don't care. I mean city utilities that go on and off ALL the time and are anything but reliable. I'm talking crime so high that at night no one stops at red lights in fear of being carjacked.

That paves the way for the cross roads of civil unrest and domestic terrorism. In times of economic despair people will look for an outlet to lash out at. It maybe each other, another racial group, higher class of people, the government etc... Think of all the home grown terrorist groups back in the 80's and 90's.

(The Kehoe Brothers, The Order (Bob Mathews), The Rajneesh Bio Attack, Four Corners Fugitives, Timothy McVeigh, The Unabomber, Eric Rodolph,)

The list goes on and on... These same types are out there, looking for a reason and waiting. If our economy slips and things get worse, it'll create a breeding ground where hate and conflict will be domesticated again. Right now our enemy is terrorism, take that away and our enemy will become ourselves again, expect this time we will have a crippled economy to aid the recruit of such types.

I do not believe we will get to the point of civil war, but what worries me is that once the War in Afghanistan is over and people begin to realize the government is to blame for our current at home situation, it is a matter of when not if, we will see domestic terrorism again. This time the chips are in place for much harsher responses against civil rights and innocent Americans caught in the crossfires, which can and likely will breed more incidents as restrictions will only fuel the flames of those on the fence.

The angry white man in camo pants who shoots guns in what I fear... I remember those days growing up...

Sanderhawk
11-16-2011, 5:27 PM
Onizuka Base ( Blue Cube) in Santa Clara , SF ( finacial center) and a few other places. FAA buliding in Fremont , CA handles air traffic for west coast Alaska and Hawaii.
The "Blue Cube" handles the military communications , good enough target for ya?

We are all targets or near enough , but why destroy with nukes , you can't live there or use it for awhile after ( a good long while)

Natural disasters would/will be what would do it , as well as economic and that ain't to far off.

Actually no I don`t think its a good enough target. I really think most terrorists are fixated on New York. That city is also twice the size of LA. Everytime terrorist do something or seem to plan something its New York.

cruising7388
11-16-2011, 7:58 PM
Remember what Lenin said "One man with a gun can control 100 without one."

Whaddya do when the 101 Gang shows up?

11HE9
11-16-2011, 9:08 PM
Whaddya do when the 101 Gang shows up?

Teach everyone in the family to "Aim small, miss small" :D

DVIII
11-22-2011, 10:49 PM
I expect economic collapse to be the most forseeable threat, this guy compares and contrasts how the US will collapse as compared to the former USSR
http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/

Next is natural disaster, whatever flavor you prefer.

aermotor
11-22-2011, 10:57 PM
I think natural occurrences are going to hit us harder and effect us more before any enemy... Seismic or Solar are what I believe we should be worried about. That an economical collapse resulting in the society going haywire.

No offense to the OP, but I think the likelihood of an airburst Nuke strike is incredibly remote and a bit bonkers.

Cali-Shooter
11-22-2011, 11:08 PM
Earthquake or economic collapse seem to be the most realistic of possibilities.

JoeJinKY
11-23-2011, 12:17 AM
So I'm curious. If one were to build a plywood box and line it on all sides with sheets of magnetic vehicle sign material, would that protect whatever is inside of it from an EMP?

Frankly, I don't put a lot of stock into the EMP scare. What happens when a propane tank explodes? Immense heat at the point of explosion, searing heat for 20 yards or so, hot air for another 100 - 200 feet and warm air beyond that. A block away, it is merely a loud noise. A single source of energy that is not focused (like a laser beam) dissipates rather quickly when it instantaneously emerges from it's source point in all directions. Drop one drop of food coloring into a gallon of water to see the effect. It won't even (initially) color the water at the bottom of the container.

I think an EMP would probably affect chips in the immediate area, but the "fry every electronic device in the country" scenario is just nonsense. An EMP is not an X-ray. It will be impaired by metal buildings and cars and freeway bridges and everything else. A portion of the energy will be absorbed by what it attempts to pass through on its way to you. SOME of the energy might reach you, but it will be diluted. It is not focused like a laser, so distance makes it exponentially less potent.

KFI radio in Los Angeles transmits 50,000 watts of power from their antenna. Stand next to it during transmission and you can suffer severe burns to your skin, but a half block away, a person can walk by the antenna without even feeling a tingle. A firecracker in a closed fist will do a lot of damage, but it won't even tip over an empty soda can placed three inches away.

Computers have chips, but they are also enclosed in metal cases. So are hard drives. I just can't imagine an EMP detonated in the center of the country affecting computers in New York or Los Angeles. Besides, if the bomb is that powerful, the very last thing you'll be worried about is whether you can "tweet" about it. I think electronics at that point will become heavy things you won't want to carry. You won't be able to charge cell phones if they work at all. If you car won't start, you can't use the alternator for light or heat, or charging batteries.

I think before we have any major natural disaster, we will suffer a man-made financial meltdown, an Obama army confiscating guns or shooting those who will not comply, and a whole lot of bloodshed and disease and crime.

As for the cops not being there and going home to take care of their families, please, God! Make sure that happens! Survival will be much easier without pretentious authority figures walking around getting in the way, confiscating your weapons, and herding you like cattle. Isn't that, after all, what is causing the whole mess in the first place?

frigginchi
11-23-2011, 4:19 AM
If terrorist attack all the commercial seaports on the western seaboard simultaneously we'd be screwed for a while.

EmptySkuLL
11-23-2011, 6:01 AM
What if there was no power to the chip, the device is not grounded, and no current flowing through an electronic device. Would an EMP still render it disabled? Sorry for getting OT.

Here is an experiment for you... Stick a fork in a microwave and turn it on... What happened? Sparks? Yep. Was the device (fork) "powered on"? Nope. A device does not have to be in operation for an external high energy source to affect it. A microwave is a generator of a portion of the electromagnetic spectrum (microwaves). It is a bit of an extreme example, but essentially if it can survive in your microwave, congratulations its EMP proof. (and no, im not talking about nuking it until it melts into charcoal, but if whatever device you stick in there still functions after getting blasted for 5 to 10 seconds in a microwave, said device most likely would have survived an EMP).

An EMP would be similar but with a few differences, the frequencies of the EMP would be all over the place covering the entire spectrum from low frequency RF (just above sound) to well past microwave (just below light) and into the realm of magnetism (hence the name). The other difference is that EMP's are a short-duration High-Energy event. Microwaves (as we use them) are a low energy (relatively speaking) long-duration event. Depending on the device used/made to generate the EMP it could generate electromagnetic interference in a variety of ranges. It is entirely possible that it could knock out a device that has no power plugged into it or that is grounded.

chrisf
11-23-2011, 8:20 AM
It will be mexico trust and believe that.

akjunkie
11-23-2011, 9:38 AM
What if there was no power to the chip, the device is not grounded, and no current flowing through an electronic device. Would an EMP still render it disabled?

One main thing that would suck if it was disabled would be a flashlight. Would leaving batteries out, but next to it, still keep the flashlight alive during an EMP? Would this idea hold true for other electronic devices, if they're unplugged with no batteries or capacitors in them holding any power and they were not grounded?

Sorry for getting OT.

This is a good question. I have nothing but LED flashlights. With the little microprocessors built into them. Guess I should keep couple "old sku" Maglites around incase my Fenix lights get fried.

FeuerFrei
11-23-2011, 11:05 AM
#Book of Eli

...that's why I'm stocking up on chapstick and KFC hand wipes. Not so many Zippos. :D

TheChief
11-23-2011, 11:25 AM
Just finished watching a 2009 movie called "Collapse" starring Michael Ruppert. He had some interesting things to say about a worldwide collapse caused by a number of reasons to include the imbalance of societal growth, peak oil, and economic mismanagement.

Warning, doom and gloom predictions. He does have some interesting case points though.

Looks like you can stream it from Amazon and Netflix.

TheChief
11-23-2011, 11:37 AM
With regards to an EMP:

There is an existing conversation in the Survival forumn about EMPs here http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=502920

It starts with this video by NatGeo on EMPs --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dI4qKg5UBxU&feature=player_embedded

Huffington Post writeup on the show --> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/17/electronic-armageddon-emp_n_615638.html

Wycoff013
11-24-2011, 10:42 PM
I'm a little late to the topic but thought I might throw my opinion in too. Myself, I am preparing for an economic collapse here in the US, as I believe we are watching happen in the EU right now. No one seems to have the answers to their and our high debts; except to print more or have another country buy their bonds so that they can limp along for a bit more.
As far as Nukes, EMP's and natural disasters. The natural disaster would be my second choice but that would only be regional as most have said. A nuke would be fairly isolated too but would cause some fear throughout the US. Thinking about it, I believe if a group was to get a very small group of suicide bombers like you see in Israel and had them go off in small towns here and there throughout the US, in a loosely coordinated timeframe. That would scare everyone and stop everything in its tracks.
Imagine everyone from small town USA and alike not knowing where or who might do something like it again. I believe that would put a greater fear in people's mind and the government, causing mass panic.
As far as an EMP, how about lead as a barrier. I am not up to speed on the exact science of the EMP and maybe how it compares to an MRI. But we use lead lined walls in hospitals to keep the effects of the MRI from objects outside. Just a thought....