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Aircraftman
11-13-2011, 7:07 AM
I've met a patrol officer of a large PD though another hobby, he is a Sargent.

Since getting to know him a little better I was findly comfortable asking him about buying off list guns (specificly Colt Snake wheelguns).

He said it is almost impossible for them too. They need a letter from their Chief or very senior Commander stating the reason they need the gun and in his department it is almost never granted, especially for collecting purposes. Then you need a FFL who is willing to also jump through the DOJ hoops and an out of state seller willing to take a leap of faith for someone in the PRK.

Has anyone truly known or as a LEO experienced buying off list guns?

I'm just courious, I always was envious of LEO that could just buy a Python off Gunbroker for their collection. Perhaps it's not that easy and I should reconsider that 3 month vacation at the academy :o

ZirconJohn
11-13-2011, 7:28 AM
LEO needs letter from Commanding Office of their Agency if they are to take
possession of firearm same day of DROS i.e. 10 day waiting period exempt.

Leo does not need letter if they would like to buy for Agency use, personal
use... or personal collection for that matter. They will however wait the
standard 10-day [ridiculous] waiting period. Need Law Enforcement ID Card
is all... just the ID card and CDL. They are also HSC exempt if that matters.

Now; the FFL Dealer completing the initial transaction, say from out of State
seller like GunBroker etc... need not be concerned why LEO is guying off
roster hand gun. Then when you perform the Private Party Transfer (PPT) you
do not need to go to same Dealer.

This why the Law is so ridiculous... but you need a LEO who is okay with all
this. I don't think you want to ware out your welcome... better to just remain
friends. Moreover, a Colt Python is a worthwhile endeavor... and stay friends.

ap3572001
11-13-2011, 8:20 AM
There are many guns I just like to use (on/off duty) or to just shoot for fun, to collect , that are not on the list.

It goes like this:

1). New gun (HK45, Glock GEN4 etc). I go to a FFL/STORE , they order the gun and I buy just like I would a regular (on roster gun). They order it with magazines that I need.
I wait the 10 days ( w/o letter) and thats it.
I dont need any letters form anyone to buy it.

2). Off roster PPT (used gun). No different than from anybody else. Go with the seller and do PPT.

3). Used gun from out of of state ( Auctions, Guns America,Gun broker etc)

I find a used or new gun I like. Contact the seller via email. and/or put seller in contact with my FFL.

Buy/win the gun . Gun gets shipped to my FFL. Wait ten days and thats it.

zfields
11-13-2011, 8:45 AM
Might want to send him this before he starts buying guns to sell to you.

Its somewhat obvious thats what you are eluding to.
http://www.fox40.com/news/headlines/ktxl-sac-sheriffs-deputies-investigated-by-atf-20111103,0,4218243.story

ap3572001
11-13-2011, 8:59 AM
Might want to send him this before he starts buying guns to sell to you.

Its somewhat obvious thats what you are eluding to.
http://www.fox40.com/news/headlines/ktxl-sac-sheriffs-deputies-investigated-by-atf-20111103,0,4218243.story

Form what I understood after reading this arcticle, is that MAGAZINES and GUNS are in question.

If LEO's buy a bunch of off-roster guns to sell them to public ( like a business) and ON TOP OF IT include 10+ rounds magazines with them . They are in trouble and it is WRONG thing to do.

On the other hand , If an LEO buy off roster handguns and at the later time , for whatever reason does not want them anymore and sells it using FFL (WITH LEGAL MAGAIZNES) , there is no issue .

Correct me if I am wrong?

I was going to order an HK45 . Had a chance to shoot one before I placed an order. I DID NOT LIKE IT. And it DID NOT like my issue 45acp ammo.

If I ordered the gun w/o shooting one first, I would be selling it or trading it shortly after .

ZirconJohn
11-13-2011, 9:03 AM
Might want to send him this before he starts buying guns to sell to you.

Its somewhat obvious thats what you are eluding to.
http://www.fox40.com/news/headlines/ktxl-sac-sheriffs-deputies-investigated-by-atf-20111103,0,4218243.story

Yes... the article ^^^ reads as follows; "That's because civilians
can only buy the guns that have 10 bullets per magazine. Officers can buy
the firearms that have more than 10 - like 12, 15, and 17 bullets per
magazine, sources tell FOX40."

Leo purchase of off roster hand gun, then PPT of same hand gun with 'OVER
10 roung magazine' is against the Law in California.

However, LEO purchase of Off Roster hand gun and then re-sale PPT of same
hand gun with max 10RD magazine is NOT against the Law. Just need
to keep it legal all the way around... LEO you understand.

zfields
11-13-2011, 9:06 AM
Yes... the article ^^^ reads as follows; "That's because civilians
can only buy the guns that have 10 bullets per magazine. Officers can buy
the firearms that have more than 10 - like 12, 15, and 17 bullets per
magazine, sources tell FOX40."

Leo purchase of off roster hand gun, then PPT of same hand gun with 'OVER
10 roung magazine' is against the Law in California.

However, LEO purchase of Off Roster hand gun and then re-sale PPT of same
hand gun with max 10RD magazine is NOT against the Law. Just need
to keep it legal all the way around... LEO you understand.

There's a few different version of the same story, some about unlicensed resale, some about off rosters. Not going to dig around for the other stories on it, but google is your friend.

morrcarr67
11-13-2011, 9:11 AM
With the SSE & SARE there is really no need to get your friend who might be a LEO to buy guns for resale. They could get in trouble for no reason.

003
11-13-2011, 9:18 AM
I seriously question just how much of a “friend” someone is if they feel it appropriate to ask a “friend” to risk their job/career just so they could have a new toy that is not available to them in California. Amazing how some people think. Why in God’s name would a responsible Cop risk his job/family/career? This is without a doubt one of the stupidest most insulting questions I have ever seen here on Calguns. So, go ahead and ask me howI real feel about it. Anyone that would ask the question, clearly knows nothing about professional law enforcement.

keenkeen
11-13-2011, 9:35 AM
This is without a doubt one of the stupidest most insulting questions I have ever seen here on Calguns.

You must not spend enough time on Calguns...:o

Seriously,

Seems like the OP has a new friend that is LEO and broached the subject of off roster purchases. Looks like the LEO took the high road and told him it was "to complicated" and his dept won't let him. Case closed...no harm, no foul.

Not really the crime of the century. However, with the recent events in the news I can understand how this is a sensitive subject...

Librarian
11-13-2011, 10:23 AM
Yes... the article ^^^ reads as follows; "That's because civilians
can only buy the guns that have 10 bullets per magazine. Officers can buy
the firearms that have more than 10 - like 12, 15, and 17 bullets per
magazine, sources tell FOX40."

Which you should recognize as silly.

Handguns and Roster status and magazines are different issues.

It's legal for any non-prohibited person to buy a Glock 17 in California - that gun is on the Roster. But it is not legal to sell or transfer the standard magazines unless the receiver is exempt from the 'large-capacity magazine' law. That's why there are 10-round G17 magazines.

XDRoX
11-13-2011, 10:28 AM
Which you should recognize as silly.

Handguns and Roster status and magazines are different issues.

It's legal for any non-prohibited person to buy a Glock 17 in California - that gun is on the Roster. But it is not legal to sell or transfer the standard magazines unless the receiver is exempt from the 'large-capacity magazine' law. That's why there are 10-round G17 magazines.

I'm interested in your opinion on this Librarian.
Do you think the cops got in trouble for:
-Selling off roster handguns?
-Selling mags that hold over 10 rounds?
-Selling too many used guns?

Aircraftman
11-13-2011, 11:06 AM
I seriously question just how much of a “friend” someone is if they feel it appropriate to ask a “friend” to risk their job/career just so they could have a new toy that is not available to them in California. Amazing how some people think. Why in God’s name would a responsible Cop risk his job/family/career? This is without a doubt one of the stupidest most insulting questions I have ever seen here on Calguns. So, go ahead and ask me howI real feel about it. Anyone that would ask the question, clearly knows nothing about professional law enforcement.

Where in my original post does it say I was asking him to buy a gun for me!! YOU and the other poster with the "somewhat obvious" comment are way off base and/or super uptight.

I am the most law abiding citizen you would ever want to meet. I have been able to put together an extensive Colt collection the LEGAL way and would never want to do it any other way.

One thing you are right about, I would never risk my record or risk my new golf buddy's career buy asking him to buy a gun of which I already have several of.

I was only asking about something out of curiosity- shame on you guys!

billybob_jcv
11-13-2011, 11:38 AM
I would never ask a LEO friend to buy a gun just so he could sell it to me. I *would* make sure that my friend knew that I was interested in buying any of his guns he was interested in selling.

ap3572001
11-13-2011, 12:12 PM
As I said in my other posts.... Till we know EXACTLY what the charges are (With Sacramento case) the whole thing is pure speculation

Librarian
11-13-2011, 2:13 PM
I'm interested in your opinion on this Librarian.
Do you think the cops got in trouble for:
-Selling off roster handguns?
-Selling mags that hold over 10 rounds?
-Selling too many used guns?

I think BATF has not yet filed charges publicly, so no one not connected to the investigation knows.