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Geoff C
02-20-2007, 3:45 PM
After a few months of tweaking and modding, I'm finally happy with how the rifle is setup. On Sunday I took it to the range for a good workout.

The rifle in its current configuration:
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b147/geoffc15/IMG_0635sm.jpg
Noveske N4 Lower
RRA 20" Varmint A4 Upper
DPMS LPK
Chip McCormick Super Match Single Stage Trigger
Prince 50 Bullet Button Magazine Release
ProMag 10/20
Oversized Grip
A2 Stock (weighted, w/extension)
Mueller 8.5-25x44AO Tactical Scope
Wilson Combat Lo-Mount Scope Mount
Shooter's Ridge Rock Mount Bipod (9-13")

Ammo: Federal Lake City XM193

And the first serious 3 shot group after a 40 round warm-up:
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b147/geoffc15/IMG_0686sm_text.jpg

Yes, I'm satisfied with sub 1/5MOA accuracy. :D Oh and the shot order was left hole, right hole, middle hole...with 10-15 secs between shots. Not bad for surplus ammo...:p

-Geoff

goldfinger
02-20-2007, 4:03 PM
may i know which range did you went?

24_minutes_to_1000
02-20-2007, 4:08 PM
Incredible group and a very good looking rifle.

I never would have imagined a semi-auto as being capable of that kind of accuracy!

A couple of questions.

What's the twist rate on the barrel, and with ARs are there match quality barrels available seperately from the upper? (Yes, I am completely ignorant when it comes to semi-autos).

In regards to the Mueller scope, how do you like it? I'm very close to making a decision for a tactical scope for my Savage .243 and this one's on the list.

Thanks very much.

Geoff C
02-20-2007, 4:24 PM
Incredible group and a very good looking rifle.

I never would have imagined a semi-auto as being capable of that kind of accuracy!

A couple of questions.

What's the twist rate on the barrel, and with ARs are there match quality barrels available seperately from the upper? (Yes, I am completely ignorant when it comes to semi-autos).

In regards to the Mueller scope, how do you like it? I'm very close to making a decision for a tactical scope for my Savage .243 and this one's on the list.

Thanks very much.

I went to the Livermore-Pleasanton Rod and Gun Club (http://www.lprg.org/).

The barrel has a 1:8 twist. There are a number of manufacturers of match grade barrels with any combination of features you could want (Krieger, White Oak Armament, etc).

The Mueller scope is awesome for the money. It's well made, looks nice, holds zero, and adjusts nicely. Did I mention it's dirt cheap? :p Having said that, it's not as bright as some better scopes and the exit pupil diameter is a bit tight. I'm now considering upgrading to something more fitting of the rifle's accuracy.

Thanks for the positive feedback!

-Geoff

Geoffkoop
02-20-2007, 4:35 PM
I went to the Livermore-Pleasanton Rod and Gun Club (http://www.lprg.org/).

The barrel has a 1:8 twist. There are a number of manufacturers of match grade barrels with any combination of features you could want (Krieger, White Oak Armament, etc).

The Mueller scope is awesome for the money. It's well made, looks nice, holds zero, and adjusts nicely. Did I mention it's dirt cheap? :p Having said that, it's not as bright as some better scopes and the exit pupil diameter is a bit tight. I'm now considering upgrading to something more fitting of the rifle's accuracy.

Thanks for the positive feedback!

-Geoff

That thing looks good! Nice shootin as well.
Nice name too!

PanzerAce
02-20-2007, 4:46 PM
Geoff C, no reason to upgrade the scope when you are getting those kinds of groups.

Geoff C
02-20-2007, 4:52 PM
Geoff C, no reason to upgrade the scope when you are getting those kinds of groups.

You may have a point there. It's too bad the grass is so much greener over at Leupold. :p

-Geoff

Stanky626
02-20-2007, 5:32 PM
Nice shot group.

My groups are usually dollar bill sized.:p

James R.
02-20-2007, 5:37 PM
Excellent group, however 3 shot groups aren't a great indicator as many well tell ya. 5 shots or go home I say ;-)

Regards,

James R.

Whitesmoke
02-20-2007, 5:59 PM
very good shooting and a very accurate rifle.....but....I'm not picking here, but how can that be a .1875" group? I see 2 distinct .223 holes....

To measure group size...measure the group at it's largest point and subtract the bullet diameter. But it's still an awsome group though....:D

here's one from my M1a....but bigger bullets and not as good a group as yours.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v676/rvoyles/afb4bb6c.jpg

Geoff C
02-20-2007, 7:09 PM
very good shooting and a very accurate rifle.....but....I'm not picking here, but how can that be a .1875" group? I see 2 distinct .223 holes....

To measure group size...measure the group at it's largest point and subtract the bullet diameter. But it's still an awsome group though....:D


Nice group for you, too. Well...the simple answer is that as the bullet travels through the paper, the paper bends in such a way that the resulting hole is significantly smaller than the bullet that created the hole. This is also the reason that measuring the outside width and subtracting bullet diameter is not quite accurate. More Information (http://www.gun-tests.com/performance/feb96how.html)

The way I measured mine was with steel calipers. Without looking at the reading, I adjusted the jaws until they were exactly in the centers of the outside bullet holes. Only once I was sure they were dead on did I look at the reading which I was AMAZED to see was exactly 3/16". The accuracy of this measurement relies on the assumption that the hole created by the bullet stretches around the edges in a consistent fashion - however, I think this is a safe assumption.

Below is my attempt at photo proof. I had a hard time getting the angle of the photo to clearly show what is easily seen in person. It also doesn't help that I set my calipers about 1/128" less than 3/16".:p In any case, it's pretty close:
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b147/geoffc15/IMG_0692sm.jpg

:) Geoff

Geoff C
02-20-2007, 7:10 PM
Excellent group, however 3 shot groups aren't a great indicator as many well tell ya. 5 shots or go home I say ;-)

Regards,

James R.

My mistake - next time I won't get lazy after 3 shots. ;)

-Geoff

James R.
02-20-2007, 7:16 PM
My mistake - next time I won't get lazy after 3 shots. ;)

-Geoff

It's cool and all, but 5 shots is pretty much the standard. Most benchrest shooting is scored off of a 5 shot grouping...it's a better indicator of the shooter and rifle.

That looks very promising as I had considered getting that RRA upper for the RRA lower I have laying around. I'm a bolt action guy and I'm not really willing to dump crazy money into an AR but would like an longer range setup to round out my other 2 AR's. Might have to pick one up...

I take it that's the bead blasted barrel option?

Regards,

James R.

Whitesmoke
02-20-2007, 7:20 PM
Nice group for you, too. Well...the simple answer is that as the bullet travels through the paper, the paper bends in such a way that the resulting hole is significantly smaller than the bullet that created the hole. This is also the reason that measuring the outside width and subtracting bullet diameter is not quite accurate. More Information (http://www.gun-tests.com/performance/feb96how.html)

The way I measured mine was with steel calipers. Without looking at the reading, I adjusted the jaws until they were exactly in the centers of the outside bullet holes. Only once I was sure they were dead on did I look at the reading which I was AMAZED to see was exactly 3/16". The accuracy of this measurement relies on the assumption that the hole created by the bullet stretches around the edges in a consistent fashion - however, I think this is a safe assumption.

Below is my attempt at photo proof. I had a hard time getting the angle of the photo to clearly show what is easily seen in person. It also doesn't help that I set my calipers about 1/128" less than 3/16".:p In any case, it's pretty close:
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b147/geoffc15/IMG_0692sm.jpg

:) Geoff

:D ....OK, I concede...It looks like your right. Thats awsome.......!

Geoff C
02-20-2007, 7:23 PM
It's cool and all, but 5 shots is pretty much the standard. Most benchrest shooting is scored off of a 5 shot grouping...it's a better indicator of the shooter and rifle.

That looks very promising as I had considered getting that RRA upper for the RRA lower I have laying around. I'm a bolt action guy and I'm not really willing to dump crazy money into an AR but would like an longer range setup to round out my other 2 AR's. Might have to pick one up...

I take it that's the bead blasted barrel option?

Regards,

James R.
Yeah, I've never done any competitive shooting so I'm not aware of the subtleties. Next time around I'll go for the fiver.

I've been really happy with the upper. It is the bead blasted version and given the performance, I think the price is very reasonable. I have no doubt, though, that a better shooter could produce even better results. In any case, I'm having fun and it does shoot nicely.

-Geoff

Geoff C
02-20-2007, 7:26 PM
:D ....OK, I concede...It looks like your right. Thats awsome.......!

Haha, no worries. It turns out that since I didn't shoot a full five shot group it's all meaningless anyway. :P

If I can get all 5 that tight I may have to try my hand at competitive shooting - I'm just having fun in the meantime...

:) Geoff

biff
02-20-2007, 8:26 PM
Haha, no worries. It turns out that since I didn't shoot a full five shot group it's all meaningless anyway. :P

If I can get all 5 that tight I may have to try my hand at competitive shooting - I'm just having fun in the meantime...

:) Geoff

Not that you won't but make sure you post how it does in the 5 shot grouping.

That's one of the upper's I've been considering that upper but in the 24" variety. How's the weight on your 20"er?

Geoff C
02-20-2007, 8:32 PM
Not that you won't but make sure you post how it does in the 5 shot grouping.

That's one of the upper's I've been considering that upper but in the 24" variety. How's the weight on your 20"er?
As soon as I have a respectable 5 shot group, I'll be sure to post it. ;)

It is a fairly burly rifle, but I wouldn't want it any other way - I like heavy rifles for benchrest shooting. I don't have a figure to quote, but I wouldn't want to go hiking with it for more than a mile or two. I'd been considering the 24" variant, but after doing some reading, I was willing to give up ~200fps for the looks and convenience. With the 24" barrel this thing would be a bear to handle and transport.

-Geoff

markymark
02-20-2007, 8:39 PM
Is your upper a .223 Wylde or a 5.56?

Geoff C
02-20-2007, 8:42 PM
Is your upper a .223 Wylde or a 5.56?
It's a .223 Wylde, but I almost exclusively shoot Federal Lake City XM193 5.56.

artherd
02-20-2007, 8:48 PM
Amazing group, very very nice. I honestly cannot hold a rifle that well.

Stick that in your mini-14 and smoke it :D

Geoff C
02-20-2007, 8:57 PM
Amazing group, very very nice. I honestly cannot hold a rifle that well.

Stick that in your mini-14 and smoke it :D
Haha thanks. Don't discount the Mini-14, though. From what I hear, if HR1022 survives, it'll be an honest-to-goodness assault rifle. :eek: And the new Mini-14 Target Rifle is supposedly a *GASP* MOA rifle! :p

From Ruger's Site:
One-inch groups at 100 yards can be regularly obtained with suitable ammunition for the individual rifle.

;)

omtay606
02-20-2007, 9:30 PM
I can't shoot this good w/ my bolt action... =(

madjack956
02-20-2007, 9:54 PM
Don't fret Geoff. Years ago I came home (puffed up)with some tight 3 shot groups from my .308 bolt rifle and was deflated after being told I needed five shots. I figured "no problem'... Well, there always seems to be one round that doesn't like to hang with his four brothers and usually takes a pretty promising group down the toilet..

Good Shooting and nice looking rig,

Jack

xrMike
02-21-2007, 6:47 AM
Awesome group, yeah it's only 3 but I don't think I've ever seen 3 tighter than that posted in my time here... Nice.

You need to get some new calipers though, my friend -- doesn't look right to be showing off a group like that with a rusted-out caliper like that one... :D Midway has a digital Frankford Arsenal that goes for $39 that regularly goes on sale for $20-something.

Geoff C
02-21-2007, 8:11 AM
Awesome group, yeah it's only 3 but I don't think I've ever seen 3 tighter than that posted in my time here... Nice.

You need to get some new calipers though, my friend -- doesn't look right to be showing off a group like that with a rusted-out caliper like that one... :D Midway has a digital Frankford Arsenal that goes for $39 that regularly goes on sale for $20-something.
Thanks Mike. And yes, I'll admit those calipers are in pretty sad shape. Next order from Midway will have that pair added. :)

-Geoff

artherd
02-22-2007, 1:16 AM
Haha thanks. Don't discount the Mini-14, though. From what I hear, if HR1022 survives, it'll be an honest-to-goodness assault rifle. :eek: And the new Mini-14 Target Rifle is supposedly a *GASP* MOA rifle! :p

From Ruger's Site:
One-inch groups at 100 yards can be regularly obtained with suitable ammunition for the individual rifle.

;)
ROFL.

Do try some 5-shot groups.

A real nice acid test for a precision semi is a whole mag (30 rounds, so 3 CA bullet-tip mags ;) as fast as you accurately can, about 1 round a second or so usually, into a target. If you can keep THAT around 1-1.5MOA, then you have something pretty amazing.

troyPhD
02-22-2007, 3:14 AM
Glad to hear that your range report doesn't include anyone yelling at you: "that gun isn't legal!"

Geoff C
02-22-2007, 6:58 AM
ROFL.

Do try some 5-shot groups.

A real nice acid test for a precision semi is a whole mag (30 rounds, so 3 CA bullet-tip mags ;) as fast as you accurately can, about 1 round a second or so usually, into a target. If you can keep THAT around 1-1.5MOA, then you have something pretty amazing.
I'm gonna try to make it to the range this weekend, and you can be sure I'll be trying for some more groups. 30 rounds in under in a minute is a bit intimidating as an accuracy test...I may save that one for after a few successful 5 shot groups. :P

-Geoff

Geoff C
02-22-2007, 7:04 AM
Glad to hear that your range report doesn't include anyone yelling at you: "that gun isn't legal!"
One guy walked past a few times looking at it then asked, "Is that an Armalite?" I replied, "Nope, it's a Noveske," which apparently was enough of an answer for him. :rolleyes:

I've actually yet to be bothered at LPRG - the only comments I've received have been questions about specific parts or compliments.

-Geoff