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hung380
02-19-2007, 12:26 PM
Hello everyone, Im in the market for a 1911 but cant decide which one I should get. My price range is from 1000 to 1600. I have been doing research on les baer product line and i see that les baers manufacture some accurate 1911s. They claim that their guns can hold 1.5 groupings @ 50 yards with a 300 dollar option and 3 inch groupings @ 50 yards w/o. I see kimbers and SA for the same price range and was wondering what the difference are and how come so many calgunners own Kimbers and Springfields. Any recommendations will greatly be appreaciated. Thanks

Brass Balls
02-19-2007, 12:39 PM
I'm fortunate enough to own several examples of all three brands and the Baers are my favorites. Now Springfield gets really close, imo, to Baers quality but only in their top of the line $2k + custom shop guns like the Pro and TGO1.

As to the Baer extra 1.5" guarantee, owning both I have to say that I like it because it can't be upgraded to that level later, however my Baers without it are tack drivers too. In fact I have to be really on my game to notice any difference in accuracy between the 3" guns and the 1.5" guns. And keep in mind that these guarantees are for 50 yards so to compare to a 25 yard guarantee you divide the Baer numbers by 2. In other words their standard 3" gun will shoot 1.5" at 25 yards which is outstanding accuracy.

Check out this test target that came with my 1.5" guaranteed Baer Ultimate Master.

http://home.comcast.net/~1911brass/UM_RT_SIDE.JPG
http://home.comcast.net/~1911brass/Aug01003.JPG

If you measure the group outside to outside then subtract .45 to arrive at the center to center measurement (which is done so that group sizes of various calibers can be compared) you get a 10 shot, 50 yard group of 3/4".

scootergmc
02-19-2007, 1:03 PM
Hello everyone, Im in the market for a 1911 but cant decide which one I should get. My price range is from 1000 to 1600. I have been doing research on les baer product line and i see that les baers manufacture some accurate 1911s. They claim that their guns can hold 1.5 groupings @ 50 yards with a 300 dollar option and 3 inch groupings @ 50 yards w/o. I see kimbers and SA for the same price range and was wondering what the difference are and how come so many calgunners own Kimbers and Springfields. Any recommendations will greatly be appreaciated. Thanks

For the cost and since it's your first, I recommend the basic parkerized Springfield Loaded 1911. It's a very good bang for the buck, and using your $1000 budget will leave you with $200+/- left over for accessories/ammo.

Both Kimber and Springfield offer good quality 1911's for the $. But there's nothing wrong with going high end on your first 1911. Although you may feel guilty if you drop it!

stag1500
02-19-2007, 1:12 PM
I personally favor the Colt 1911's. I own a Series 70 and two Series 80 models. They're all very accurate, especially the Series 70, and I've never had a single problem with any of them. The Series 80 models are definitely within you price range ($600-800). For the best price I would get one off of gunbroker.com. As for a Series 70, you're just going to have to check various gun stores in CA or go to one of the gun shows.

Mark_in_Pasadena
02-19-2007, 1:30 PM
From what I've read, the best bang for your buck 1911 is the Taurus, but unfortunately they're not shipping to Cali because then haven't completed the "drop test" or something like that...

Like others have mentioned, Kimber, Springfield, but I would add Para Ordinance to the mix.....:D

FormerLaCrescentan
02-19-2007, 1:57 PM
Kimber's have worked well for me - Accurate, reliable, great attention to detail. Excellent values IMHO.

bg
02-19-2007, 2:05 PM
I like my old Ser 80 as well. The others above are really
nice too. Nothing wrong with a Wilson 1911 either and
this model is Ca certed. Around 1400.00.

http://www.wilsoncombat.com/p_kz45.asp
http://www.wilsoncombat.com/images/product/WKZ-T-PA-CA.jpg

hung380
02-19-2007, 2:38 PM
Most of my target shooting will be at around 25-50 feet. Can you tell the difference in groupings using a kimber, Springfield or a les baer at that distance? Im just trying to figure out if its worth spending an extra 400 bucks on a les baer. I love to shoot tight groupings at ranges and I cant seem to find any ranges that rents out les baers. Please keep the helpful info coming.

donger
02-19-2007, 4:04 PM
For your upper price range a Les Baer TRS should fit the bill.:D

FatKatMatt
02-19-2007, 4:11 PM
The higher Springfields or Kimber if you like those fugly front slide serrations and all the useless bells and whistles. The Colt 1991 or Springfield G.I. if you like a more classic look. I also hear good things about the SIG GSR, but I've never used one.

leelaw
02-19-2007, 4:33 PM
Springfield Tactical TRP Operator.. mmm.. so nice.

Or check some of the higher end Kimbers.

We need some more info from you, though:

What length barrel do you want: 3", 4", or 5"?

Do you want a rail, or not?

Adjustable sights, standard, or night? (not a big issue, since these can be swapped out)

Single stack (1911) or double stack (2011) style?

hung380
02-19-2007, 6:00 PM
looking for a 5 inch barrel with single stack mag. Adjustable sights would be nice to have and I have no use for a rail. I think this gun looks sweet http://www.impactguns.com/store/706397151072.html
so how would this and the higher end kimbers compare to this for almost the same price? thanks
http://www.impactguns.com/store/LES-CONCEPT%20II.html

markymark
02-19-2007, 6:50 PM
in your price range, i'd go for a les baer.

leelaw
02-19-2007, 11:00 PM
looking for a 5 inch barrel with single stack mag. Adjustable sights would be nice to have and I have no use for a rail. I think this gun looks sweet http://www.impactguns.com/store/706397151072.html
so how would this and the higher end kimbers compare to this for almost the same price? thanks
http://www.impactguns.com/store/LES-CONCEPT%20II.html

In that price range, you could get just about any Kimber (with the exception of four models - at least according to my prices)

The higher end Kimbers are really nice. I'll post a report for my Raptor II once it hits the range.

The Springfield TRP is really nice. I don't have experience with that particular model, but I do with the Tactical Operator (add a rail to it and paint it black) which I thought was a beauty.

Unless Hesse starts making 1911s, for the price range you're looking for, you can't really go wrong with Springfield Armory, Les Baer, or Kimber.. unless you're concerned about the origin of your frames, in which case SA might be out.

ivanimal
02-19-2007, 11:36 PM
You may get better traffic here.

PLINK
02-20-2007, 12:47 AM
I have a Springer Mil-Spec and will have a Springer parked loaded government w/ Novak night sights in 9 days. This one I found has a surprisingly nice crisp trigger and the barrel to slide lock up had no movement. I will probably have to replace the barrel bushing though because it is a little loose (doing research on that now, along with replace the MSH with a extended magwell). I have mostly looked at Kimbers and Springers. I really like Springfields warrenty although I never had to use it. I had no problems with my Mil-Spec and hope that continues with the Loaded.

The Kimbers are nice too. I was interested in the non-stainless TLE (no rail) but it was $134 more than the Loaded I found.

mike100
02-20-2007, 7:06 AM
The 1911 thing is like asking which car brand is better. just don't get a cheap one unless it is just for the frame and slide to be used for a custom.

hung380
02-20-2007, 10:37 AM
what do you guys think about the sig GeeSeR?
http://www.impactguns.com/store/798681313716.html
I saw this and both the frame and slide is machines out of stainless steel.
what do you guys think of this one http://www.impactguns.com/store/669278321400.html
Im very close to deciding which one to get so just give me several more days. Thanks alot guys and keep the helpful info rollin.

ZenMastaT
02-20-2007, 11:33 AM
Personally my loyalty and money lie with Springfield Armory. I've got a Loaded edition which I enjoy quite a lot, though the trigger could use a little lightening. That said, I haven't seen anyone bring up S&W's 1911 which I understand to be a fine gun. I'm curious myself as to how it stacks up against other high end 1911s.

blackrifle
02-20-2007, 12:30 PM
S&W 1911's have various issues. Some so bad that they company has been replacing guns with re-serialized frames (to match your old serial number). I sent in my SW1911 for various problems too.

Here's a thread (http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=3608) about some of the problems...

The one thing that S&W did do right was the external extractor. Works perfectly on mine and I've never heard/read about anyone having an issue.

For $1600, I'd consider getting a base Colt NRM 01911A1 and doing a Yost-Bonitz 1* Enhanced package.

cho034442
02-20-2007, 12:51 PM
what do you guys think about the sig GeeSeR?
http://www.impactguns.com/store/798681313716.html
I saw this and both the frame and slide is machines out of stainless steel.
what do you guys think of this one http://www.impactguns.com/store/669278321400.html
Im very close to deciding which one to get so just give me several more days. Thanks alot guys and keep the helpful info rollin.


I own a GSR Revolution since last Aug. It had 3-point-jam problem and I sent it back to Sig twice to get this fixed (no cost to me). They polished the feed ramp the first time and polished the breech face the second time. Sig paid for the shipping cost, both ways. Mine is railed model with solid trigger piece and there is a firing pin safety mechanism on the rear right hand side of the slide.
I also have a Kimber TLE II. I shoot about the same accuracy with both, but compare them side-by-side, I would have to say the Sig GSR Revo has better finish and better parts, although the GSR has stainless finish and the TLE II is matt blue.
My Kimber TLE II also had a little trigger creep. It really did not affect the accuracy, but knowing it is there really bothered me and I send it to Alan Tanaka to fix it and also reduce the pull from 5 lbs to 4 lbs.

Rums
02-20-2007, 10:38 PM
My dad owns a Springfield. Its a fine gun, but the standard sights that came with it absolutely suck for range shooting for him because he can't see that well. When he shoots matches and there is more light he loves that gun. But you can swap sights, he's just to lazy to work on his :-p

gunrun45
02-20-2007, 10:57 PM
What's wrong with the Charles Daily handguns.
Lots of bang for your buck (no pun intended of course ;) ) They come pretty well tricked out and the reviews I have heard from the guys that own them are absolute raves. The only problem I have heard aboutthem is that the steel they use is so high a quality that it is difficult to alter if you want any other mods. The pistols come VERY well set up from the factory though.
Just another option and at $700 for a reasonably well decked out 1911 you could afford to buy 2!

My money will always remain with the Sig GSR though. Beautyfull guns (early ones) that run like sewing machines. The newer ones I understand are having some problems though but as cho stated above, Sig stands behind their stuff. Their first generation guns were all hand assembled by REAL craftsmen of the trade from high end aftermarket parts. Their barrels, slides and frames were all hand lapped for fit....butter smooth...

nogm
02-20-2007, 11:11 PM
I love my Smith & Wesson 1911. I have had zero problems with it and I can empty the magazine repeatedly on a 12" steel plate at 100 yards off hand with it and it will shoot 3/4" at 15 yards, so accuracy is not an issue. I think it is one of the best 1911's on the market right out of the box, and everyone that I let shoot it thinks the same. For around $1000 you can't beat it. I have a Kimber Team Match II and a Colt Gold Cup with a match barrel and a competition trigger that are supposed to be a "better" pistols, but I can't tell which one shoots better. I think most of how well they shoot depends on the the one pulling the trigger. You can't go wrong with a Smith & wesson or a Kimber or a Colt or a Dan Wesson or really any of the top names who make 1911's, just get the one you like the most and if you can, rent as many as you can at ranges before you decide on which one to buy, and I think it really depends on which one you think looks the best these days.

wintwu
02-21-2007, 10:12 PM
my favorite is the Valtro 1911 by John Jardine. I heard he may not be selling them anymore.

Otherwise i used to have a custom 1911 by Rock River Arms. I highly recommend them.

Mael
02-22-2007, 8:23 AM
I own both a Kimber Gold Match II and a Les Baer TRS. I like the Les Baer much more than the Kimber. The Kimber is very picky about the types of magazines it likes. With the right magazines, I get FTF about every 150 rounds on my Kimber. The TRS has no such problems.

The Les Baer also has much tighter tolerances than the Kimber. Slide to frame fit is outstanding. The triggers on both guns are similar, but the TRS is a little crisper. I don't really notice a difference in accuracy until I move out to 25 yards. At that point the Les Baer starts to shine.

Get the TRS and never look back. It will be a gun that you give to your grandchildren.

hung380
02-22-2007, 10:32 AM
Im gonna place an order for the les baer premier II with the 1.5 group package. Sportingarms gave a very good quote @ 1670.00 on the premier II and 1619.00 for the trs. I cant tell the difference between the trs and the premier II besides the grips and the sights. Whats a good place to do hard chrome? thanks

Ninja45
02-22-2007, 3:00 PM
It will be an excellent choice, on either one. I have just gotten a PII and am extremely happy with it! I'm saving my money for a TRS. Maybe in another year...Oh, yeah I have Colts, Springers, Kimbers, Paras, and a Norinco...I love the LB PII the best!

Ninja45

Astig Boy
02-22-2007, 4:12 PM
The guy is asking recommendations for a $1000-1600 1911 and people are referring Springfield Loaded 1911s? LOL That’s just funny to me, cause that’s just way off base of what he is aiming for. IMO there are different tier levels of 1911s. I believe it goes like this:

Basic/Standard – ($100-500) Springer GI, Rock Island, Norinco, Armscor, High Standard, Llama
Mid Level – ($500-750) Springer Loaded, Kimber Custom II, Taurus
Mid/High Level – ($750-1100) Sig, S&W, Kimber TLE, Kimber CDP, Most Paras
High Level – ($1200-1600) Kimber Team Match, Springer TRP, Dan Wessons, RRA Hardball
Custom – ($1600+) Les Baer, STI, Infinity, Ed Brown, Kimber Super Match, Wilsons, Nighthawk, RRA Limited Match, Springer TGO1

I have a Springer GI, a Loaded, and a Kimber Eclipse model. All feel and shoot totally different. I also shoot my friends Les Baer and Springer TRP in excess(both feel better than my Kimber)…just slowly racking them and feeling the mechanics move shows how well built a 1911 is. Anything +$1200 will feel super tight, but smooth, and solid…and no part of any aspect of the gun will have any type of misalignments, gaps, or any type of play what so ever. In the 1911 sport, you really do get what you pay for.

You made a wise choice in getting a Les Baer.

SUNDOWN45
02-23-2007, 12:10 PM
Buy The Les Baer Trs It Is Hands Down Your Best Bet

leelaw
02-23-2007, 1:35 PM
Im gonna place an order for the les baer premier II with the 1.5 group package. Sportingarms gave a very good quote @ 1670.00 on the premier II and 1619.00 for the trs. I cant tell the difference between the trs and the premier II besides the grips and the sights. Whats a good place to do hard chrome? thanks


http://www.apwcogan.com/

they did a nice job on a piece of mine.

jrent
02-23-2007, 2:52 PM
Houng380 - I'll add my 2c. I have Kimber Custom, Colt Series 70 and Baer Premiere. Baer is by far the most accurate, Colt Series 70 hardest to find, and Kimber is a great shooter. At the distances you mentioned how much accuracy do you need. If I were you, I'd go with the Kimber and use the extra money for ammo and more shooting time.

mike100
02-23-2007, 3:09 PM
I'm sure you'll be happy with a premium blaster like that. my next gun, personally, is going to be the $500 colt 1991A1 that I got last year used (lnib) and sent to Novaks for a package custom for about a grand. I've been chewing on that idea for awhile and I really think Novaks has their stuff together even though you don't hear as much about them as you do about other customizers.

I also have a hankering for a Dan Wesson pointman-7.