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View Full Version : How do you verify an FFL by name?


chad68
11-05-2011, 6:47 AM
Where can a person go to check whether an FFL is legit by either their personal name or their business name? Is this possible?

The ATF site only goes by license numbers, it seems.

halifax
11-05-2011, 7:08 AM
There's this but it will take some searching:

http://www.atf.gov/about/foia/ffl-list.html

tenpercentfirearms
11-05-2011, 9:07 AM
There's this but it will take some searching:

http://www.atf.gov/about/foia/ffl-list.html

Which CTRL-F will take care of really quick for you.

Mssr. Eleganté
11-05-2011, 9:33 AM
Which CTRL-F will take care of really quick for you.

Come on now Wes, you're giving away all the secrets. :D

chad68
11-05-2011, 8:11 PM
There's this but it will take some searching:

http://www.atf.gov/about/foia/ffl-list.html

Thanks. I saw that link on the site before but my computer wanted to download some junk to view it in one form and viewing it in text form, looked almost like jibberish.

I was able to make sense out of the text file type and found it after about 20 minutes lol.

Before I found the guys Licesne number online and did the ez check, I had e-mailed the guy back and asked if he could send me his FFL license number. It's been like 14 hours and he didn't e-mail me back.

He could be busy, even though he replied to the first one at 6AM but was it rude of me to ask for his licesne number so I could confirm he's current and legit? Seems like it would be a good thing for both people to know and be able to say hell yes I'm legit, here's my number, FAX me the info.

Or maybe it's just another case of the second e-mail= no replies. I don't know if it's just me or what but if I e-mail a business in regards to a business transaction, product question, service question or a question about anything and I have to ask a second question, in a second e-mail, people seem like they just say egh screw it and don't bothering answering e-mails. Maybe I'm nuts but it seems like the deeper we get into the recession, the worse customer service is getting. That seems totally opposite of what it should be. I would think people would want to go out of their way to get your money, especially for a guy that FFL's out of his house.

tenpercentfirearms
11-06-2011, 4:59 AM
Thanks. I saw that link on the site before but my computer wanted to download some junk to view it in one form and viewing it in text form, looked almost like jibberish.

I was able to make sense out of the text file type and found it after about 20 minutes lol.

Before I found the guys Licesne number online and did the ez check, I had e-mailed the guy back and asked if he could send me his FFL license number. It's been like 14 hours and he didn't e-mail me back.

He could be busy, even though he replied to the first one at 6AM but was it rude of me to ask for his licesne number so I could confirm he's current and legit? Seems like it would be a good thing for both people to know and be able to say hell yes I'm legit, here's my number, FAX me the info.

Or maybe it's just another case of the second e-mail= no replies. I don't know if it's just me or what but if I e-mail a business in regards to a business transaction, product question, service question or a question about anything and I have to ask a second question, in a second e-mail, people seem like they just say egh screw it and don't bothering answering e-mails. Maybe I'm nuts but it seems like the deeper we get into the recession, the worse customer service is getting. That seems totally opposite of what it should be. I would think people would want to go out of their way to get your money, especially for a guy that FFL's out of his house.

People might be out of town, on vacation, they might only work certain hours, or your next e-mail may hit a spam filter.

lazyworm
11-06-2011, 5:07 AM
Or you can tell us the name. I'm sure some calgunner in your area would know.

kemasa
11-06-2011, 7:33 AM
It is reasonable for the FFL to give you the information so that you can check the FFL status on the BATF ezcheck web page, IF you are doing a transaction with the FFL. Don't expect it if you are just asking questions, some will give it, others might not.

SDProtection
11-06-2011, 8:22 AM
I was told by the ATF that an FFL is not supposed to give a private citizen a copy of their FFL. They are to be given the numbers nessasary to EZ Check but that is it. I havn't taken the time to look up the fed code on this but have followed their explanation.

kemasa
11-06-2011, 9:10 AM
There is no requirement for a FFL to give a copy of their FFL to a non-licensee, but there is no law regarding it one way or another. The BATF tells FFLs to not give a copy to non-licensees as well. The bottom line is that it is best to not give a copy of your FFL to non-licensees as it is not required and can sometimes lead to problems (such as your information being used in ways that you don't want). Consider it as a need to know basis, even though all of the information printed on the FFL can be found elsewhere. What can not be found elsewhere is the actual version of the FFL (background, lettering size, etc.), which if it does not match your actually FFL, it makes it easier to show that you had nothing to do with any problems.

chad68
11-06-2011, 9:17 PM
Just to clarify I wasn't asking the FFL for a hard copy or even soft copy of the guys actual licesne, just needed enough of the lic. number to verify it's valid/current with Ez check.

The FFL did evnetually e-mail his number back. He is all legit and is even one of Buds Guns 'prefered' FFL's for my area, though I'm not buying from Buds.

I will probablly give him a call Monday or Tuesday.

On a different note what do the license numbers that are "X'ed" out mean? I'm guessing something that is sensitive info of some sort?

Thanks.

Mssr. Eleganté
11-06-2011, 11:55 PM
...On a different note what do the license numbers that are "X'ed" out mean? I'm guessing something that is sensitive info of some sort?

ATF has set up the ezcheck FFL verification system to use only certain numbers from the actual license number. So FFLs will often X out the numbers you don't need to use on the ezcheck system. Here's the breakdown for what all of the digits in a license number mean...

digit 1: BATFE Region
digit 2,3: IRS District
digit 4,5,6: County of the State
digit 7,8: Type of License
digit 9,10: Expiration Date Code
digit 11-15: Sequence Number of License

For the ezcheck system they don't ask for the type of license, the county or the expiration date. This is probably just to help prevent unscrupulous people from producing counterfeit versions of licenses.

chad68
11-07-2011, 8:30 AM
ATF has set up the ezcheck FFL verification system to use only certain numbers from the actual license number. So FFLs will often X out the numbers you don't need to use on the ezcheck system. Here's the breakdown for what all of the digits in a license number mean...

digit 1: BATFE Region
digit 2,3: IRS District
digit 4,5,6: County of the State
digit 7,8: Type of License
digit 9,10: Expiration Date Code
digit 11-15: Sequence Number of License

For the ezcheck system they don't ask for the type of license, the county or the expiration date. This is probably just to help prevent unscrupulous people from producing counterfeit versions of licenses.

Thanks for the info. That all makes sense.

kemasa
11-07-2011, 8:35 AM
FFLs will often send out their FFL number is two different ways, the first is as 9-99-99999, which are the numbers which are needed for the ezcheck web page, but could confuse some people since the number is a longer and has Xs on some of the fields. Others will include the Xs, which make it longer.

The first three and last five are all that are needed to make it unique.

chad68
11-07-2011, 12:40 PM
I don't know about this online gun buying stuff. I'm nervous enough as it is and have been trying all morning to get people on the phone. FFL doesn't answer his phone. Trying to place my order over the phone and Personalsecurityzone.com doesn't answer their phone either. Tried calling Beretta to order something from them and they don't answer their phone either.

Makes me feel so much more at ease:rolleyes:

kemasa
11-07-2011, 1:01 PM
Email often works better as you can get a response when the person is available.

chad68
11-09-2011, 1:22 PM
Email often works better as you can get a response when the person is available.

Turns out there is a very good reason why he takes a while to respond and does so at screwy hours. I can't belive this FFL only charge $30+$25 and no CA tax, EVER!. That's why I offered to pay him $60+$25, cuz I'm a nice guy (and don't have to drive all day), plus I plan on doing a couple more tranfers with him.

kemasa
11-09-2011, 1:30 PM
Well, if you want to be a nice guy you should tell him that he is violating the law by not collecting the sales tax and could end up with some serious problems if he does not change his ways. Also, posting what he is doing on a public forum will only serve to help him to have problems, sooner, rather than later.

Perhaps the letter from the BOE, by way of the DOJ, will serve to educate him.

chad68
11-09-2011, 6:20 PM
Well, if you want to be a nice guy you should tell him that he is violating the law by not collecting the sales tax and could end up with some serious problems if he does not change his ways. Also, posting what he is doing on a public forum will only serve to help him to have problems, sooner, rather than later.

Perhaps the letter from the BOE, by way of the DOJ, will serve to educate him.

If that's true, then there are plenty of FFL's doing the same. He only does transfers and nothing else (does not sell anything). I believe he said he does charge taxes on certain (rare) types of transfers but not on out of State transfers.

Since you know, why not explain to the rest of us how CA can legally force anybody to pay or collect taxes on an item that was bought from a vendor that does not charge CA taxes? I know it's done with vehicles but why not when you order a new toaster or VCR off ebay?


Is it because it's a gun? Is it because of the dollar amount? Is it because CA doesnt care about collecting taxes on toasters and VCR's or are all those people failing to pay the State for their toasters and should all be jailed?

kemasa
11-10-2011, 9:46 AM
It is true. There are other threads on this, as well you can look at the Master FAQ. There are a lot of people speeding on the roads, but that does not make it legal, does it?

You know the answer to how it can be forced on us. The government has the power and can lock people up who don't do what they want. It does not have to be legal. In this case, the FFL is a CA business and an easy target, plus there is paperwork to document everything. The same is true for vehicles since there is paperwork and in order to get your vehicle registers, you are forced to pay.

In the case of purchases which are from out of state, you still owe the tax, but CA can't force out of state businesses from collecting the tax for them since they are out of state and can't show up at their door and threaten to do anything. They can go after you, if they decide it is worth the money and effort to them. Give them a reason and you increase the odds that they will make an example out of you.

Look at your CA income tax return.

The answer is the same with respect to some laws as well. I know of law which the CA DOJ is claiming to be something other than it is, but in order to fight it, I would have to get charged with violating the law, then pay a lot of money to fight it. The bottom line is that I would not really win. Yeah, I might be able to get the law seen for what it is, but it would personally cost me a lot, far more than it is worth to me.

tenpercentfirearms
11-10-2011, 2:21 PM
Since you know, why not explain to the rest of us how CA can legally force anybody to pay or collect taxes on an item that was bought from a vendor that does not charge CA taxes? I know it's done with vehicles but why not when you order a new toaster or VCR off ebay?

No problem.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=366781

Done. Don't tell us who your FFL buddy is. There are government snitches everywhere...on a public forum.