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sammy
11-03-2011, 4:54 PM
I am out of city limits in Tuolumne County and we had 12 chickens this summer. They kept disappearing without a trace and we finally saw a bobcat stalking them outside of the fence. He or she is a big cat so trapping would be a challenge and I can't afford it anyway.

Is there a law against shooting this bastard keeping in mind that it is safe? I hate to do it but I don't know what else to do.

Thanks, Sammy

duggan
11-03-2011, 4:58 PM
Hunting license and bobcat tags when in season. Otherwise apply for a depridation permit through F&G.

lordres
11-03-2011, 5:02 PM
That's a great question actually.

What if I was actually in a city, and I owned a few chickens, and a raccoon, or a coyote, was in my backyard attacking my chickens?

I've seen coyotes and raccoons in my backyard.

taperxz
11-03-2011, 5:27 PM
That's a great question actually.

What if I was actually in a city, and I owned a few chickens, and a raccoon, or a coyote, was in my backyard attacking my chickens?

I've seen coyotes and raccoons in my backyard.

Build your coop so the raccoons can't get in.

taperxz
11-03-2011, 5:30 PM
I am out of city limits in Tuolumne County and we had 12 chickens this summer. They kept disappearing without a trace and we finally saw a bobcat stalking them outside of the fence. He or she is a big cat so trapping would be a challenge and I can't afford it anyway.

Is there a law against shooting this bastard keeping in mind that it is safe? I hate to do it but I don't know what else to do.

Thanks, Sammy

Don't be so sure about a cat coming back to take your chickens. You may have been lucky enough to just see the cat there. More than likely its a raccoon. They have thumbs and can actually reach in the coop and grab a chicken. The chickens are actually dumb enough to go over to the raccoon and see what it is. The Raccoon will grab its head and pull it straight through the wire. I lost 15 the same way. The cat may just be following the old blood scent.

POLICESTATE
11-03-2011, 5:33 PM
Hunting license and bobcat tags when in season. Otherwise apply for a depridation permit through F&G.

That's charming, you have to apply to defend your property against a pest.

Wonder when they will roll this out for mice and cockroaches.

taperxz
11-03-2011, 5:36 PM
That's charming, you have to apply to defend your property against a pest.

Wonder when they will roll this out for mice and cockroaches.

No, what the previous poster said is not true. If you see the animal in the act or around the chickens you can shoot the cat. You ARE allowed to protect your chickens! Depredation would be needed for a lion IF you have dead live stock. It would allow you to actually HUNT the lion down. If you see a lion in the act of taking livestock you may shoot the lion.

CCWFacts
11-03-2011, 5:39 PM
It is absolutely not worth the possible legal consequences vs. the value of the few chickens you're losing. Build a better coup. Call animal control. The average chicken is worth about 10 minutes of a good lawyer's time. I don't know the possible laws, but I know that you could touch on areas of, is it legal to discharge a firearm? Is it legal to shoot any animal? Do you need permits to shoot a bobcat? What if this bobcat is Federally-protected somehow? Will any possible responding LEOs have the same understanding of all this as you do? It's not worth the value of a chicken to do it.

Shoot-it
11-03-2011, 5:49 PM
I have some bobcat tags let me know if you need help.

taperxz
11-03-2011, 5:54 PM
It is absolutely not worth the possible legal consequences vs. the value of the few chickens you're losing. Build a better coup. Call animal control. The average chicken is worth about 10 minutes of a good lawyer's time. I don't know the possible laws, but I know that you could touch on areas of, is it legal to discharge a firearm? Is it legal to shoot any animal? Do you need permits to shoot a bobcat? What if this bobcat is Federally-protected somehow? Will any possible responding LEOs have the same understanding of all this as you do? It's not worth the value of a chicken to do it.

NAAA, where he lives, he is fine, Bobcats aren't protected but you need a tag to take them while sport hunting. Its still probably a raccoon anyway. If they are killing your chickens whether its a raccoon or cat you can kill it. I am going to presume you don't live in one of the housing tracts. If you do you might want to check with the neighbors and let them know.

a1c
11-03-2011, 6:06 PM
Legal - unless in an area where discharging a firearm is illegal.

dantodd
11-03-2011, 6:12 PM
No, what the previous poster said is not true. If you see the animal in the act or around the chickens you can shoot the cat. You ARE allowed to protect your chickens! Depredation would be needed for a lion IF you have dead live stock. It would allow you to actually HUNT the lion down. If you see a lion in the act of taking livestock you may shoot the lion.

He's talking about a bobcat, not a mountain lion. Can you post the code that permits taking the animal in the act?

Shoot-it
11-03-2011, 6:18 PM
I also just down loaded a chicken and baby turkey distress sound on my fox pro.They like birds that's for sure.I was planning on going hunting for bobcats this weekend if the weather is not to bad.

taperxz
11-03-2011, 6:50 PM
He's talking about a bobcat, not a mountain lion. Can you post the code that permits taking the animal in the act?


I don't know the code, what my warden did tell me was that i can shoot any predator that is a threat in the act of taking my livestock. We are allowed to protect livestock you know. :)

A lion is a protected animal i can shoot one. Why wouldnt i be able to take a bobcat that is not protected?

ubet
11-03-2011, 6:50 PM
Hunting license and bobcat tags when in season. Otherwise apply for a depridation permit through F&G.

FUD!!

If you see ANY animal harassing livestock you can shoot it on site. Mountain lion, coyote, bobcat, or neighbors dog.

Op, best thing, live by the 3 s shoot shovel shut up.

taperxz
11-03-2011, 6:51 PM
I also just down loaded a chicken and baby turkey distress sound on my fox pro.They like birds that's for sure.I was planning on going hunting for bobcats this weekend if the weather is not to bad.

You can't use an electronic call for bobcat.

Bigtwin
11-03-2011, 7:10 PM
Yes as far as I have found out, you do have the right to protect your animals/livestock. You would be smart to reaffirm from your local F&G and/or sheriff dept. to know for sure.

A few years back living in Placerville we were reassured by the Sherrif that we had the right to shoot any animal messing with chickens or any other livestock on our property, up to and including bobcat, mountian lion, and a neighbors dog, if it was on our property!

dantodd
11-03-2011, 7:31 PM
I don't know the code, what my warden did tell me was that i can shoot any predator that is a threat in the act of taking my livestock. We are allowed to protect livestock you know. :)

A lion is a protected animal i can shoot one. Why wouldnt i be able to take a bobcat that is not protected?

Taking a lion requires DFG approval and a depredation permit (or verbal authorization) per DFG code 4802.

I didn't know if bobcats or others had similar limits.

lordres
11-03-2011, 7:33 PM
What are the law's for "baiting" game in California? I remember Ted Nugent was busted for baiting deer on his hunting show when he was in California.

If you can't bait game, would owning chickens and then getting a bobcat tag be illegal?

huntercf
11-03-2011, 7:46 PM
SSS

taperxz
11-03-2011, 8:08 PM
Taking a lion requires DFG approval and a depredation permit (or verbal authorization) per DFG code 4802.

I didn't know if bobcats or others had similar limits.


Even a lion in the act can be shot and killed. Now if you find dead livestock and it appears to be a lion kill, 4802 applies to be able to bait and hunt the lion afterwards.

taperxz
11-03-2011, 8:12 PM
What are the law's for "baiting" game in California? I remember Ted Nugent was busted for baiting deer on his hunting show when he was in California.

If you can't bait game, would owning chickens and then getting a bobcat tag be illegal?

It would not be illegal. Raising livestock is not baiting. I run cattle and can leave feed and salt licks out for the cattle and shoot a buck over the feed or salt licks as long as I am grazing cattle.

a1c
11-03-2011, 8:13 PM
What are the law's for "baiting" game in California? I remember Ted Nugent was busted for baiting deer on his hunting show when he was in California.

If you can't bait game, would owning chickens and then getting a bobcat tag be illegal?

No.

And you can kill the bobcat legally even without a tag if they're attacking your chickens.

taperxz
11-03-2011, 8:15 PM
No.

And you can kill the bobcat legally even without a tag if they're attacking your chickens.


Just what are we going to do with the Lake County folk??

a1c
11-03-2011, 9:01 PM
Just what are we going to do with the Lake County folk??

We need a group shoot. You hostin'? I'll bring wine and targets!

taperxz
11-03-2011, 9:06 PM
We need a group shoot. You hostin'? I'll bring wine and targets!


ANY TIME A!

Glock22Fan
11-04-2011, 7:36 AM
It is absolutely not worth the possible legal consequences vs. the value of the few chickens you're losing. Build a better coup. Call animal control. The average chicken is worth about 10 minutes of a good lawyer's time. I don't know the possible laws, but I know that you could touch on areas of, is it legal to discharge a firearm? Is it legal to shoot any animal? Do you need permits to shoot a bobcat? What if this bobcat is Federally-protected somehow? Will any possible responding LEOs have the same understanding of all this as you do? It's not worth the value of a chicken to do it.

In California you have the general legal right to protect your livestock against critters, but there may be restrictions on shooting firearms in particular areas. However, it is less clear that the farming term "Livestock" stretches to cats and dogs.

My first coop was torn apart by, I believe, coyotes. I rebuilt it with weldmesh and had no more problems (except squirrels and rodents stealing food).

Decoligny
11-04-2011, 8:19 AM
He's talking about a bobcat, not a mountain lion. Can you post the code that permits taking the animal in the act?

That's not the way it works.

Laws do not "permit" thing to be done. Laws prohibit things from being done.

Can you post the code the PROHIBITS taking the animal in the act?

moleculo
11-04-2011, 8:23 AM
Didn't we just have this whole discussion about 3 weeks ago?

It's always legal to defend your person or property from damage from wildlife. Even if there is a city code making discharge illegal, it's STILL legal to defend your property. Your chickens are your property. If you see a raccoon, coyote, bobcat, mountain lion, the big bad wolf, Magilla Gorilla, or F'ing Godzilla himself killing your chickens, you can shoot and kill it legally. The DFG hunting regulations do not apply when the protection of your property is at stake.

taperxz
11-04-2011, 8:28 AM
Didn't we just have this whole discussion about 3 weeks ago?

It's always legal to defend your person or property from damage from wildlife. Even if there is a city code making discharge illegal, it's STILL legal to defend your property. Your chickens are your property. If you see a raccoon, coyote, bobcat, mountain lion, the big bad wolf, Magilla Gorilla, or F'ing Godzilla himself killing your chickens, you can shoot and kill it legally. The DFG hunting regulations do not apply when the protection of your property is at stake.

Not so fast there. I would not suggest anyone shoot a raccoon raiding a chicken coop in the city. YOU WILL be in trouble!! You are however allowed to trap the animal. Anyone who has chickens, should make their coop able to withstand predators (period).

emc002
11-04-2011, 8:28 AM
I have livestock and I regularly shoot varmits harassing my livestock.
Additionally, my county (and many others) permit the shooting of any dogs found harassing livestock.

A depredation permit is only granted by CA DFG if there is (generally) evidence of multiple kills which then allows you to hunt (read as shooting them when they are not harassing livestock) the animal within the bounds of your property. (You can't take a depredation permit and go hunting mountain lion with it in the NF.) I've only ever received and hunted under a depredation permit once, never did get the animal, but a neighbor did a few weeks later when it took a calf.

See Fish and Game Code Sections 4180, 4181 and 4800-4809.

moleculo
11-04-2011, 8:35 AM
Not so fast there. I would not suggest anyone shoot a raccoon raiding a chicken coop in the city. YOU WILL be in trouble!! You are however allowed to trap the animal. Anyone who has chickens, should make their coop able to withstand predators (period).


First, if you have chickens in the city, you're probably violating some municipal code.

Second, I know from first-hand experience that what you are saying is untrue. As I mentioned in the other thread, we get coyotes all the time. About 2 months ago, a neighbor shot one (not sure if he got it) that was attacking his dog. The cops showed up, found out what happened and left with nothing else coming of it. We have "no discharge" laws here. This is in L.A. County, right in the middle of the metropolitan area.

You can defend yourself and property from wildlife, just like you can defend yourself from humans.

taperxz
11-04-2011, 8:45 AM
First, if you have chickens in the city, you're probably violating some municipal code.

Second, I know from first-hand experience that what you are saying is untrue. As I mentioned in the other thread, we get coyotes all the time. About 2 months ago, a neighbor shot one (not sure if he got it) that was attacking his dog. The cops showed up, found out what happened and left with nothing else coming of it. We have "no discharge" laws here. This is in L.A. County, right in the middle of the metropolitan area.

You can defend yourself and property from wildlife, just like you can defend yourself from humans.

Municipal code? for Chickens? Not true unless the municipality states so. Whats the difference between pigeons and chickens?

I don't believe your story and here is why, if the coyote was actually attacking his dog, how could he have shot, the way dogs fight he could easily have shot his own dog, coyotes don't "usually" attack dogs. I know this from first hand knowledge. A single coyote will generally run from a domestic dog when they are by themselves.

YOUR first hand experience according to your story seems to be third hand, he said she said. If your story has merit, the shooter would have to have been shooting in an area with no houses in the direction of shooting. Hills perhaps? Still if you had first hand experience, you would know if the coyote was shot or not. NO?

moleculo
11-04-2011, 8:58 AM
I don't believe your story and here is why, if the coyote was actually attacking his dog, how could he have shot, the way dogs fight he could easily have shot his own dog, coyotes don't "usually" attack dogs. I know this from first hand knowledge. A single coyote will generally run from a domestic dog when they are by themselves.


This is getting ridiculous and now you're calling me a liar.

It was MY NEIGHBOR. I HEARD THE SHOTS. I SAW THE COPS. You don't know where I live, what the housing density is, or what the population is.

Regardless, this isn't about my story. It's legal to defend your person and your property.

Don't call me a liar again.

CCWFacts
11-04-2011, 9:06 AM
Why even waste the effort to figure this out? Why not first ask yourself, is it worth it to do it, even if the risk is very small? Why take a risk of unknown scope for nothing in return? Why listen to dumb advice that someone heard from a game warden or cop somewhere, or someone is posting on the Internet, regarding something which, if you're wrong, could lead to who knows what kind of state and federal level charges? Remember, our Federal government has invested millions of dollars bringing criminal charges against Amish milk farmers for selling fresh, unpasteurized milk (http://reason.com/blog/2011/05/16/raw-milk-raid-on-amish-farmer). Do you really know all the laws that could come into play here? What do you gain from shooting a bobcat?

taperxz
11-04-2011, 9:11 AM
First, if you have chickens in the city, you're probably violating some municipal code.

Second, I know from first-hand experience that what you are saying is untrue. As I mentioned in the other thread, we get coyotes all the time. About 2 months ago, a neighbor shot one (not sure if he got it) that was attacking his dog. The cops showed up, found out what happened and left with nothing else coming of it. We have "no discharge" laws here. This is in L.A. County, right in the middle of the metropolitan area.

You can defend yourself and property from wildlife, just like you can defend yourself from humans.

Let me put it in a nicer way then..

Neighbor shoots at coyote because of an attack on his dog. Did the dog have bite marks from fighting?

Owner shoots at coyote but no one sees a coyote other than the shooter. Not even you and your first hand knowledge.

Police come out to a shooting, owner tells them "i shot a coyote", but there may not be a coyote there.

If there was no coyote, (you said you didn't know even though you have first hand experience) and police got involved in a discharge of a firearm in LA, do you really think the police would just say OK its cool?

I would have to think there is either more or LESS to the story.

FWIW, I run into predators constantly (mostly coyotes) watching and tending my cattle and sheep. I have yet to lose a dog to a coyote, when one of my dogs bark or the llamas start sounding off, the coyote takes off. In fact this just happened again this last sunday.

taperxz
11-04-2011, 9:15 AM
Why even waste the effort to figure this out? Why not first ask yourself, is it worth it to do it, even if the risk is very small? Why take a risk of unknown scope for nothing in return? Why listen to dumb advice that someone heard from a game warden or cop somewhere, or someone is posting on the Internet, regarding something which, if you're wrong, could lead to who knows what kind of state and federal level charges? Remember, our Federal government has invested millions of dollars bringing criminal charges against Amish milk farmers for selling fresh, unpasteurized milk (http://reason.com/blog/2011/05/16/raw-milk-raid-on-amish-farmer). Do you really know all the laws that could come into play here? What do you gain from shooting a bobcat?

Are we a little ignorant today? What you gain is no more dead chickens, cattle, sheep, YOUR FOOD!

Accept for migratory game birds the federal gov. leaves hunting laws and depredation up to the states. There are no federal laws prohibiting the depredation of wild predators, except for humans. If you trespass on someone property it is a misdemeanor, if you trespass on property with livestock, it is a FEDERAL FELONY. The feds did this to protect our food source from terrorism. ;)

moleculo
11-04-2011, 9:24 AM
I have yet to lose a dog to a coyote, when one of my dogs bark or the llamas start sounding off, the coyote takes off.

We lose dogs in this neighborhood all the time. Most of them are little fu-fu type dogs. Coyotes aren't scared at all by them. The coyotes here aren't even afraid of people. There is a BIG difference between coyotes that are accustomed to the city and ones that live in the country.

Last year the local PD called every house in the city and left a message warning people not to walk in the park across the street and be careful walking the neighborhood because there was a pack of 3 aggressive coyotes, believed to have distemper or worse, rabies. They surrounded and one of them bit a lady on the foot while she was riding her bike in the park. I personally talked to the cop that was patrolling the street looking for these dogs and he confirmed this.

I don't really need to argue with someone over the internet about what happens in my own neighborhood.


Another thing, why does EVERY OTHER THREAD in this section always end up with people's opinion on what other people should do? The OP was asking if something is legal. He didn't ask anyone else's opinion about what he should or shouldn't do. Now he's getting advice on how to build a better chicken coup! Good grief. Let's try just answering the question asked and leave out all of the advice that wasn't asked for, the judgement passing, the hypothetical, and the hyperbole.

Question: Is it legal?
Answer: Yes
Should you do it?: When he asks that question, I might give an opinion. He didn't ask, so I don't give a damn what he does.

taperxz
11-04-2011, 9:56 AM
We lose dogs in this neighborhood all the time. Most of them are little fu-fu type dogs. Coyotes aren't scared at all by them. The coyotes here aren't even afraid of people. There is a BIG difference between coyotes that are accustomed to the city and ones that live in the country.

Last year the local PD called every house in the city and left a message warning people not to walk in the park across the street and be careful walking the neighborhood because there was a pack of 3 aggressive coyotes, believed to have distemper or worse, rabies. They surrounded and one of them bit a lady on the foot while she was riding her bike in the park. I personally talked to the cop that was patrolling the street looking for these dogs and he confirmed this.

I don't really need to argue with someone over the internet about what happens in my own neighborhood.


Another thing, why does EVERY OTHER THREAD in this section always end up with people's opinion on what other people should do? The OP was asking if something is legal. He didn't ask anyone else's opinion about what he should or shouldn't do. Now he's getting advice on how to build a better chicken coup! Good grief. Let's try just answering the question asked and leave out all of the advice that wasn't asked for, the judgement passing, the hypothetical, and the hyperbole.

Question: Is it legal?
Answer: Yes
Should you do it?: When he asks that question, I might give an opinion. He didn't ask, so I don't give a damn what he does.

Its illegal to discharge on a wild animal out in public in prohibited areas unless under direct attack.

The OP lives in a place where it is generally not illegal to shoot, i encouraged him to shoot in his area because i know his area.

You on the other hand are giving advice that "could" get people arrested by shooting in a prohibited area. You said you have "first hand knowledge" but you have yet to show that knowledge and have only speculated what you have heard from others. Your assertions are that the POLICE told you to stay out of the park! They did NOT say arm yourself prior to going to the park to kill coyotes. Wonder why?:rolleyes:

moleculo
11-04-2011, 10:00 AM
Its illegal to discharge on a wild animal out in public in prohibited areas unless under direct attack.

The OP lives in a place where it is generally not illegal to shoot, i encouraged him to shoot in his area because i know his area.

You on the other hand are giving advice that "could" get people arrested by shooting in a prohibited area. You said you have "first hand knowledge" but you have yet to show that knowledge and have only speculated what you have heard from others. Are assertions are that the POLICE told you to stay out of the park! They did NOT say arm yourself prior to going to the park to kill coyotes. Wonder why?:rolleyes:

I was giving NO advice, which was the entire point of my last rant. You are apparently incapable of understanding the difference when someone is asking a Yes/No question and when they are asking for advice. You are also a tool so I'm not debating with you any longer on this subject.

taperxz
11-04-2011, 10:03 AM
I was giving NO advice, which was the entire point of my last rant. You are apparently incapable of understanding the difference when someone is asking a Yes/No question and when they are asking for advice. You are also a tool so I'm not debating with you any longer on this subject.

Exactly you think its a yes or no answer and its not always yes or no. There are always variables in situations. Where i live if i see something i don't want there i shoot it. You can't do that everywhere and i applaud those who ask first. They obviously care about being legal with their firearms. Sorry you take it so personally.

Tripper
11-04-2011, 10:10 AM
He's talking about a bobcat, not a mountain lion. Can you post the code that permits taking the animal in the act?

can you post the code that forbids it

I dont readily have handy a code that allows me to brush my teeth.

Tripper
11-04-2011, 10:16 AM
however
for your convenience, i will post the code for you
but it relates primarily to pigs
cant find most other animals readily

(FGC 4181.1) bear & pig
4181.5 is for deer
4180 is fur-bearing

all above is related to immediate take for damage/injury to crops/livestock

Kid Stanislaus
11-04-2011, 10:47 AM
Build your coop so the raccoons can't get in.


BINGO!! We gotta use our superior intelligence when dealing with them little critters.

Kid Stanislaus
11-04-2011, 11:13 AM
SSS

Uh................Secret Security Service?!!:D

Tripper
11-04-2011, 11:13 AM
Municipal code? for Chickens? Not true unless the municipality states so. Whats the difference between pigeons and chickens?


in our county you can have so many chickens and so many roosters per x number of square feet, there is actually a code, i forget what the actual numbers are though.

a 'small' house lot, can likely hold 4 chicks and a single rooster it seems

i have a friend that has like 20 chickens and a couple roosters, and he is legal/within code for his location

its the noise complaints from there, if the noise isnt controlled, that can net a problem.

Kid Stanislaus
11-04-2011, 11:14 AM
We need a group shoot. You hostin'? I'll bring wine and targets!

Oh, that's a great idea!! Yeah, tanked up on the vino and then start shoot'n!!:eek:

dantodd
11-04-2011, 12:43 PM
can you post the code that forbids it

I dont readily have handy a code that allows me to brush my teeth.

Sure. 250 prohibits the taking of any game or fur bearing animal exct as provided for in the code.

ETA. Responded before reading the code you posted later. 4180 does seem to be the controlling code.

Wolverine
11-04-2011, 12:52 PM
Fish and Game Code sections 4180 through 4190 provide exceptions allowing the take of animals damaging property, livestock, etc.

Interestingly,

4181.1. (a) Any bear that is encountered while in the act of
inflicting injury to, molesting, or killing, livestock may be taken
immediately by the owner of the livestock or the owner's employee if
the taking is reported no later than the next working day to the
department and the carcass is made available to the department.

and...

(b) Notwithstanding Section 4652, any wild pig that is encountered
while in the act of inflicting injury to, molesting, pursuing,
worrying, or killing livestock or damaging or destroying, or
threatening to immediately damage or destroy, land or other property,
including, but not limited to, rare, threatened, or endangered
native plants, wildlife, or aquatic species, may be taken immediately
by the owner of the livestock, land, or property or the owner's
agent or employee, or by an agent or employee of any federal, state,
county, or city entity when acting in his or her official capacity.

but...

4181.5. (a) Any owner or tenant of land or property that is being
damaged or destroyed or is in immediate danger of being damaged or
destroyed by deer may apply to the department for a permit to kill
those deer.

I see a section on fur bearing animals (raccoons, etc.) and rabbits but nothing specifically on non-game (Bobcat, coyote) or Lion. I would say they don't have their act together and should/could make a top level exception modeled on the bear exception which should apply to everything. Maybe there is but the codification of the above exceptions leads me to believe there isn't.

mrdd
11-04-2011, 1:12 PM
If you trespass on someone property it is a misdemeanor, if you trespass on property with livestock, it is a FEDERAL FELONY. The feds did this to protect our food source from terrorism. ;)

I assume you are talking about 18 USC 43? Note that this appears to be only a misdemeanor unless it results in bodily injury to a person or damages exceeding $10,000.

I assume this was passed to counter the freak shows such as PETA and those they infect.

Glock22Fan
11-04-2011, 1:21 PM
Oh, that's a great idea!! Yeah, tanked up on the vino and then start shoot'n!!:eek:

I think most of us do it the other way around. Interesting that you didn't think of that :D

Goosebrown
11-04-2011, 1:52 PM
Raccoons are our problem I think 4180 covers that quite nicely.

Wherryj
11-04-2011, 2:10 PM
That's a great question actually.

What if I was actually in a city, and I owned a few chickens, and a raccoon, or a coyote, was in my backyard attacking my chickens?

I've seen coyotes and raccoons in my backyard.

My neighborhood had a mountain lion in the first few years. I live across from LLNL and it was apparently hiding between the inner and outer fences at the lab.

Most of the neighborhood cats vanished, fortunately no kids that I heard about. "What if in a city" isn't so much of a hypothetical.

dantodd
11-04-2011, 2:12 PM
My neighborhood had a mountain lion in the first few years. I live across from LLNL and it was apparently hiding between the inner and outer fences at the lab.

Most of the neighborhood cats vanished, fortunately no kids that I heard about. "What if in a city" isn't so much of a hypothetical.

Crossbow.

taperxz
11-04-2011, 2:19 PM
My neighborhood had a mountain lion in the first few years. I live across from LLNL and it was apparently hiding between the inner and outer fences at the lab.

Most of the neighborhood cats vanished, fortunately no kids that I heard about. "What if in a city" isn't so much of a hypothetical.

This has happened a few times in Palo Alto. Police came out and shot the cat. Another one was in San Carlos, I heard some calgunner put a bunch of holes in it and it vanished:p Could have been a crossbow from someone guarding chickens?

acaligunner
11-04-2011, 2:22 PM
IMO, A bobcat is a bad arse animal, So why don't you just build a better secured coop/fence/whatever.

I'm not a peta head, but I would try to secure the area, so the Bobcat moves on, and stops killing your chickens.

We are sportsmen first, I could be wrong, but thats the way I see it.

acaligunner

Meplat
11-04-2011, 2:31 PM
You can't use an electronic call for bobcat.

Of course you can. Who told you that?

taperxz
11-04-2011, 2:54 PM
(b) Recorded or electrically amplified bird or mammal calls or sounds or recorded or electrically amplified imitations of bird or mammal calls or sounds may not be used to take any nongame bird or nongame mammal except coyotes, bobcats, American crows and starlings.

I was wrong once before but then i was mistaken:)

It looks like i was mistaken again. LOL

I never would have thought that, except i knew about coyotes and crow.

taperxz
11-04-2011, 2:55 PM
OH and i am also on Cabelas right now ordering one:P

Meplat
11-04-2011, 3:00 PM
I am out of city limits in Tuolumne County and we had 12 chickens this summer. They kept disappearing without a trace and we finally saw a bobcat stalking them outside of the fence. He or she is a big cat so trapping would be a challenge and I can't afford it anyway.

Is there a law against shooting this bastard keeping in mind that it is safe? I hate to do it but I don't know what else to do.

Thanks, Sammy

Go to F&G and get a trapping license. The American Bobcat / Linx cat are the only spotted cats in the world that it is still legal to take, and that can be traded in commerce. That makes every pelt extremely valuable. It would be a shame to waist one. The payoff from just one large Bobcat pelt will cover the cost of the license and much more. Bobcats taken under authority of Bobcat tags cannot be sold, those that are taken under authority of a trapping license can. Good hunting!

sammy
11-04-2011, 3:37 PM
I just got off the phone with the Dept. of Fish & Game and spoke with a very nice woman. After explaining my problem she asks "why don't you just shoot it?". :eek:

Well I am going to put up an 8' fence this weekend and if the bugger manages to get over that the dogs will be having bobcat for dinner.

Manolito
11-04-2011, 3:55 PM
I would like to comment on two counts. Your county has a trapper paid for with your tax dollars. Use it.
Second if you live in a condor area and get caught with lead ammunition shooting even if you miss you have a nice citation coming your way.
If you can't find any sign of blood or in the case of raccons the head rubbed off my guess is you may be losing them to a threat from above. Horned owels love chickens as well as several other Buteos.
Call your count trapper.
Did I mention
call your county trapper

Wolverine
11-04-2011, 4:56 PM
I just got off the phone with the Dept. of Fish & Game and spoke with a very nice woman. After explaining my problem she asks "why don't you just shoot it?". :eek:

That sounds perfectly logical. After all, if they are OK with you shooting a bear that attacking your chickens, shooting a bobcat doing the same should be no problem. We just wish they had it codified rather than having to rely on F&G's discretion.

Well I am going to put up an 8' fence this weekend and if the bugger manages to get over that the dogs will be having bobcat for dinner.

One of my daughter's dogs "Wolverine" (my avatar) just adores her chickens. So much so, that she had to put a dog house out by the coop for him to get in out of the rain during the day. He'll crawl in there and several of the chickens will join him. He has no problems killing fox, bobcat, raccoons and coyotes, so her chickens are safe.


In blue

Wolverine
11-04-2011, 5:11 PM
Found the section of the Fish and Game Code allowing one to take Mountain Lion.

4807. (a) Any mountain lion that is encountered while in the act of
pursuing, inflicting injury to, or killing livestock, or domestic
animals, may be taken immediately by the owner of the property or the
owner's employee or agent.

dantodd
11-04-2011, 5:31 PM
I would like to comment on two counts. Your county has a trapper paid for with your tax dollars. Use it.
Second if you live in a condor area and get caught with lead ammunition shooting even if you miss you have a nice citation coming your way.
If you can't find any sign of blood or in the case of raccons the head rubbed off my guess is you may be losing them to a threat from above. Horned owels love chickens as well as several other Buteos.
Call your count trapper.
Did I mention
call your county trapper

Bobcats are beautiful animals why would I give its pelt to someone else, especially someone who is already compensated with my tax dollars. Shoot it and tan it.

Meplat
11-04-2011, 10:51 PM
Bobcats are beautiful animals why would I give its pelt to someone else, especially someone who is already compensated with my tax dollars. Shoot it and tan it.

Yes! If taken under authority of Bobcat tags It can be mounted or otherwise preserved for admiration.

Wolverine
11-05-2011, 12:01 AM
I assume you are talking about 18 USC 43? Note that this appears to be only a misdemeanor unless it results in bodily injury to a person or damages exceeding $10,000.

I assume this was passed to counter the freak shows such as PETA and those they infect.

Yes, I recall that this was amended/passed in response to several high profile Animal Liberation Front operations in the 80s including the $700k damage done at UC Riverside in '85.

vacaman
11-05-2011, 6:43 PM
You can't use an electronic call for bobcat.

California Mammal Hunting Regulations Section 475 (b);

Recorded or electrically amplified bird or mammal calls or sounds or recorded or electrically amplified imitations of birds or mammal calls or sounds may not be used to take any nongame bird or nongame mammals except for Coyotes, Bobcats, American Crows, and Starlings.

1lostinspace
11-05-2011, 6:44 PM
You need to make a better cage for them.

diginit
11-05-2011, 6:55 PM
Varmits can dig and climb (chicken wire is a great ladder) so bury it deep and string razor wire on the top if not totally enclosed. Or... IMO, don't tell anyone you shot a varmit with a 22 short or pellet gun....Why we cannot legally protect our property (even chickens) without breaking the law, or giving the State money, is beyond my understanding.

831Shooter
11-05-2011, 7:49 PM
I'm not going to give out advice on whether someone can or can't shoot a predatory animal. It's of course going to be different according to where they live..

Look up your city and/or county codes yourself..

I did look up LA County Municipal Code regarding Firearms and discharge. In the first section of code it states:

13.66.010 Use of weapons permitted when

This chapter, except as otherwise provided in this Part 1, does not prohibit the discharge of any rifle, shotgun, pistol, revolver or firearm of any kind, or the shooting of any arrow or other missile, when necessary so to do to protect life or property, or to destroy or kill any predatory or dangerous animal. (Ord. 7730 1, 1960: Ord. 7381 1 (part), 1958: Ord. 1769 Art. 3 302, 1929.)

I live in Santa Cruz county, OUTSIDE of city limits, yet still in a suburban "no-shoot" zone. Our county regs actually allow discharge in a no-shoot zone even for simple pest control:


8.28.040 Exceptions.
The provisions of this chapter shall not apply to the following exceptions:

A. Employees of federal, state and local governmental agencies when the discharge of firearms is necessary in performance of their official duties for the protection and/or welfare of the public;

B. Private landowners, on their own property, when the discharge of firearms is necessary to eliminate pests or crop-destroying animals on their property;

C. Existing shooting galleries, trap shooting, rifle or target ranges operating within said restricted territory pursuant to a valid use permit on the effective date of the addition of the territory as a part of this chapter;

D. Persons legally discharging firearms for the purpose of dog training with a ten-gauge or smaller shotgun and using no larger than size two shot; provided, however, that all discharge of firearms is prohibited within one hundred fifty yards of the Pajaro River Levee from a point one thousand two hundred fifty yards (approximately 0.7 miles) downstream of Thurwachter Bridge south to the Pacific Ocean. Such persons must hold a valid state dog training permit, have written permission from the landowner and operate only during those months permitted by the state. (Prior code 8.25.030: Ord. 1554, 10/6/70; Ord. 2987, 9/23/80; Ord. 3050, 3/3/81; Ord. 3229, 5/11/82)

831Shooter
11-05-2011, 7:50 PM
Varmits can dig and climb (chicken wire is a great ladder) so bury it deep and string razor wire on the top if not totally enclosed. Or... IMO, don't tell anyone you shot a varmit with a 22 short or pellet gun....Why we cannot legally protect our property (even chickens) without breaking the law, or giving the State money, is beyond my understanding.

Yes, you can..

vandal
11-06-2011, 7:29 AM
FTW x 2

SSS

Trigger Guard
11-06-2011, 8:23 AM
OP;

We go through this all the time, Racoons will kill everything in the coop eat the innards and leave you with a great big mess of dead chickens. Best defense is a secure coop with wire mesh buried to the outside eliminating digging. Trapping with live traps will reduce the coon population. We have many coon pelts using this method.

Weasels like to eat the head and leave the rest, sometimes they will kill everything in the coop. Weasels are not indigenous here in Tehachapi but came about because of a PETA invasion and release several years ago. Haven't trapped one yet, but I will!

Silver Fox will take one every week or so and carry it away with no sign of struggle.
Once again, chickens in at night, better coop security!

Owls will also take chickens, we have a bunch around here screaming in the night. Was fearful of them taking my GSP pups when they were 6wks. They would go right to the trees above us during potty time.

Seen a Bobcat once in 5 years. I believe they will take the game and run! Don't believe they are bold enough to stock our chickens due to dogs and there are plenty of rabbits and quail around for them to eat.

We see cougars (mountain lions) periodically and believe they are allowed to eat your children if they desire. All you can do is watch unless you have a permit in advance and I think you can only get a permit if one of your children has already been taken.

Coyotes make a-lot of noise when in predator mode. Killing them only makes them multiply faster. Ive got them several times with electric fence and they seem to understand pain and pass the word. I will however shoot one(2,3,4) if the opportunity arises.

Spoke to the Sheriff out here (Tehachapi) and they say "blast em", any preditation taking livestock is fair game. Even got that in writing. You should do the same if you are considering discharging a fire arm.

Regards

savtru
11-07-2011, 2:43 AM
SSS's ROFL! That made my night....

Shoot, Shovel and STFU!

movie zombie
11-07-2011, 7:44 AM
call your local sheriff and ask this question.

twotap
11-07-2011, 5:45 PM
S,S,and STFU

FERGUSON
11-17-2011, 7:00 AM
check this out....

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/11/man-high-on-meth-skins-bobcat-eats-it-authorities-say.html

lordres
11-17-2011, 11:41 AM
Holy **** I just read that too and came here. I hope that's not the OP. LOL

VW*Mike
11-17-2011, 4:38 PM
check this out....

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/11/man-high-on-meth-skins-bobcat-eats-it-authorities-say.html

hahaha, I read that too and came here as well! I knew that looked familiar. :p Wrong county though, and I don't think that description would fit someone here.