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View Full Version : California-legal Grendel Shooter


mikehkk
02-17-2007, 4:11 PM
Hey everyone,

I wanted to know if it were possible to legally purchase/own a certain type of rifle in California these days. The one I had my eye on was one of the 6.5 MM Grendel rifles that a company called Sabre puts out. The specific rifle I had my eye on was this one:

http://www.sabre-defence.com/Store/Detail.aspx?id=92&deptid=2#

I know that this rifle has some of the "offending" costmetic details that are contrary to California law, like the collapsible stock and the flash hider on the barrel. But I'm wondering if you started with Sabre's basic upper and lower receivers and put a regular stock on it, would it be California-legal then?

Thanks all. Appreciate hearing any ideas.

James R.
02-17-2007, 4:23 PM
Hey everyone,

I wanted to know if it were possible to legally purchase/own a certain type of rifle in California these days. The one I had my eye on was one of the 6.5 MM Grendel rifles that a company called Sabre puts out. The specific rifle I had my eye on was this one:

http://www.sabre-defence.com/Store/Detail.aspx?id=92&deptid=2#

I know that this rifle has some of the "offending" costmetic details that are contrary to California law, like the collapsible stock and the flash hider on the barrel. But I'm wondering if you started with Sabre's basic upper and lower receivers and put a regular stock on it, would it be California-legal then?

Thanks all. Appreciate hearing any ideas.

Long as Sabre isn't listed you're a-ok. However you can build whatever you want on an off list lower. IMHO you could do it for a fair bit less or around the same price and end up with a nicer gun with FF handguard and all that noise...

Regards,

James R.

DarthSean
02-17-2007, 4:24 PM
I know there are some bolt acton grendels already, and I think Ruger is going to license a 6.5 conversion of the mini-30.

Cpl_Peters
02-17-2007, 4:29 PM
fix a ten round mag and you are good

TheMan
02-17-2007, 4:42 PM
Hey everyone,

I wanted to know if it were possible to legally purchase/own a certain type of rifle in California these days. The one I had my eye on was one of the 6.5 MM Grendel rifles that a company called Sabre puts out. The specific rifle I had my eye on was this one:

http://www.sabre-defence.com/Store/Detail.aspx?id=92&deptid=2#

I know that this rifle has some of the "offending" costmetic details that are contrary to California law, like the collapsible stock and the flash hider on the barrel. But I'm wondering if you started with Sabre's basic upper and lower receivers and put a regular stock on it, would it be California-legal then?

Thanks all. Appreciate hearing any ideas.


Sabre parts would work just fine. You could put a regular stock on it, and you'd need to remove the pinned flash hider, and replace it with a legal muzzle brake. Alternately, you could just lock the magazine in place(needs to be done before it comes in state), and keep all the evil parts.

Sabre prices seem a bit high to me, although I am sure they are very high quality. I don't see just the Grendel upper listed on their site, although I would bet you could buy it if you called in.

Alexander Arms actually developed the 6.5 Grendel cartridge, and they sell AR rifles and just uppers chambered in 6.5 Grendel. They sell some 16"+ rifles that would make it easy to remove the flash hider, if you needed to.

http://alexanderarms.com/siteshopper.htm?cat=15

C.G.
02-17-2007, 5:15 PM
If you are thinking about a 6.5 Grendel you should visit the Grendel Forum:
http://www.65grendel.com/
Manufacturers and vendors are listed on the first page.

mikehkk
02-17-2007, 6:33 PM
Thanks for responses guys. Wow! This has been quite an education. Until recently, my only experience with guns was shooting a 50-year old .22 long pump-action rifle given to me by my Dad years and years ago. Am surprised how ignorant I was about laws in California regarding modern firearms. God, just amazing how insane and ridiculous they are in ways. But, I guess we have to cope the best we can. So - from talking to all of you on the forum and some friends of mine at the range - I'm thinking that maybe this plan will work. You be the judge. Here goes:

Step 1: I have a local dealer order the upper receiver & barrel assembly (ONLY) for this rifle from the factory:

http://www.sabre-defence.com/Store/D...d=92&deptid=2#

(I think that this option is available from the manufacturer);

Step 2: Before I take delivery of the receiver/barrel assembly, I have the dealer's gunsmiths remove the HORRIBLE, AWFUL & EVIL military-style flash hider from the barrel (ha, ha). In it's place, I have them attach a California-legal compensator of some kind.

Step 3: Because I want to be able to use detachable CA-legal 10-round limit magazines, I'd like to attach my upper receiver assembly to an "approved"(?) AR-type lower receiver. If I understand correctly, so long as the lower has a regular butt-style stock on it (i.e., non-folding & non-collapsible), then this arrangement will work? And will be "kosher" in the eyes of CA GOV?

Let me know your comments. If something like the above will work, then:

a. What would be a good (and legal!) lower receiver to get? I've heard that 6.5 Grendel magazines will fit the same lowers as any 5.56 rifile. So, just some good generic product should suffice.

b. Is the CA-legal compensator truly "compensating" in that it counteracts the upward motion cause by the muzzle blast?

Thanks again gentlemen! Look forward to hearing from you.

Vepr62
02-17-2007, 6:57 PM
With fixed 10 rd, mag you can have all the "Evil" features you want, except the granade launcher and silencer. Flash suppressor is OK, Collapsible stock is OK (as long as the OL with the stock collapsed is 30" +), Pistol grip is OK. The minimum barrel lenght of 16" allso apply. If you want to use shorter barrel, the muzzle device should be permanently attached (welded, silver soldered, blind oined) to the barrel makin it at least 16" in lenght. You'll have to load it through the top by pushing out the rear pin and breaking gun by pivoting on front pin. For the lover, I am using stag, and for $99.99 it's very good receiver. Good building and shooting.
Vasiliy

adamsreeftank
02-17-2007, 7:12 PM
Hold on a minute!

Maybe I missed something, but do you realize that you can not have a pistol grip on a rifle with a detachable mag?

In addition to putting the fixed stock on and using an upper without a flash hider, you can NOT have a pistol grip. Do a search for MonsterMan grip.

Also, the upper you linked to has a 14.5 inch barrel. That means the flash hider is permanently attached. You do not want this upper if you are going gripless. Better to get a 16 inch or longer barrel, or get one with a muzzle break already installed.

Finally, the rifle comes with two 30 round mags that you can not receive in CA.

Sorry if I am beating a dead horse or stating the obvious, but since that is your first post, I want to make sure you understand the ground rules. Take a look at the FAQ.

C.G.
02-17-2007, 7:29 PM
Thanks for responses guys. Wow! This has been quite an education. Until recently, my only experience with guns was shooting a 50-year old .22 long pump-action rifle given to me by my Dad years and years ago. Am surprised how ignorant I was about laws in California regarding modern firearms. God, just amazing how insane and ridiculous they are in ways. But, I guess we have to cope the best we can. So - from talking to all of you on the forum and some friends of mine at the range - I'm thinking that maybe this plan will work. You be the judge. Here goes:

Step 1: I have a local dealer order the upper receiver & barrel assembly (ONLY) for this rifle from the factory:

http://www.sabre-defence.com/Store/D...d=92&deptid=2#

(I think that this option is available from the manufacturer);

Step 2: Before I take delivery of the receiver/barrel assembly, I have the dealer's gunsmiths remove the HORRIBLE, AWFUL & EVIL military-style flash hider from the barrel (ha, ha). In it's place, I have them attach a California-legal compensator of some kind.

Step 3: Because I want to be able to use detachable CA-legal 10-round limit magazines, I'd like to attach my upper receiver assembly to an "approved"(?) AR-type lower receiver. If I understand correctly, so long as the lower has a regular butt-style stock on it (i.e., non-folding & non-collapsible), then this arrangement will work? And will be "kosher" in the eyes of CA GOV?

Let me know your comments. If something like the above will work, then:

a. What would be a good (and legal!) lower receiver to get? I've heard that 6.5 Grendel magazines will fit the same lowers as any 5.56 rifile. So, just some good generic product should suffice.

b. Is the CA-legal compensator truly "compensating" in that it counteracts the upward motion cause by the muzzle blast?

Thanks again gentlemen! Look forward to hearing from you.

Your linky doesn't work for me. I went to Sabre's website and didn't see any Grendel uppers only complete rifles. Sabre is supposed to be a fine company, but I think at this time they only sell short barrel Grendels. I prefer longer barrels on the Grendel, because to me it is like a .308 in AR-15 package. If it is the 14.5" barrel you should have Sabre install the brake, but the problem may be that there may not be any brakes long enough to meet the 16" minimum. The Grendel brakes and flash hiders are different than 5.56 (different threads).

If you put a some sort of a mag lock on it (there are bunch available, just look through Calguns), then you don't have to do anything as long as your barrel is 16".

blkA4alb
02-17-2007, 7:30 PM
mikehkk I sent you a PM.

TheMan
02-17-2007, 8:05 PM
Step 1: I have a local dealer order the upper receiver & barrel assembly (ONLY) for this rifle from the factory:

http://www.sabre-defence.com/Store/D...d=92&deptid=2#

(I think that this option is available from the manufacturer);

Step 2: Before I take delivery of the receiver/barrel assembly, I have the dealer's gunsmiths remove the HORRIBLE, AWFUL & EVIL military-style flash hider from the barrel (ha, ha). In it's place, I have them attach a California-legal compensator of some kind.


You need to make sure that the upper receiver and barrel assembly includes the bolt, bolt carrier, etc. The grendel uses a custom bolt. Dimensionally it is very similar to the AR bolts for 7.62x39 ammo. But Bill Alexander is VERY specific about bolts. I talk to him fairly often, and the bolt issue is a big one. The proper Grendel bolt is one that he spec'd, and he doesn't recommend using a "standard" 7.62x39 AR bolt. I don't know for certain, but I believe that Sabre is using the correct bolt from Alexander Arms.

The cost of removing the permenantly attached flash hider and then reattaching a CA legal muzzle device is going to add to the cost even more. If you look at a 16" barrel to begin with, they will come with removable flash hiders. It will save you $$ to get one that is easily removed. Other companies have 16+" versions. Given that the AA 14.5" carbine is about $500 less than the Sabre you posted, I'd at least LOOK at what models they have that might fit the bill.

I've heard the Sabre is good quality, but I know from my own experience that Alexander Arms makes a good rifle. I've had their Beowulf for over 2 years now, and will be getting one of their Grendels soon.

mikehkk
02-18-2007, 2:23 PM
O.K.... I contacted Sabre and asked about possible sales to California. The guy I spoke to just started laughing. Seriously, he was pretty cool. He sympathises with the special difficulties we have here in the 'Fruits & Nuts' state. Turns out that it doesn't look promising for me in the Sabre direction anyway.

So, I think that - as a foundation anyway - this might make more sense:

http://www.alexanderarms.com/siteshopper.htm?cat=15&item=65#

It has the 16" minimum barrel length and comes with a 10 round CA-legal magazine. Much more reasonably priced too and - from what I understand from a few of you - a very fine product. This company is the father of the 6.5 mm grendel round too.

Can someone send me links to examples of a PISTOL-type grip (verbotten for open-mag design) and a NON-PISTOL-type grip which would be permissiable for an open-mag design?

Thanks!

C.G.
02-18-2007, 5:22 PM
You might want to give this one a try, Lars is a good guy to deal with:
http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1842
I wouldn't wait too long, I don't think it will be on the market long.

Vepr62
02-18-2007, 5:53 PM
Alexandr arms upper has A2 flash hider, so if you want to use it as is, you need to have fixed magazine. Or replace it with a muzzle brake and use MM grip to use it with detachable 10 rd magazine
Vasiliy