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giantsfan
10-31-2011, 11:33 AM
Hi All,
I got turned on to this site from a guy at TDS in Rocklin who said I should come here and post a gun I was trying to sell to see if I could find a buyer...I did and found one..awesome!!

I do have a question though...I see the question "is your gun C&R?" posted here and I don't understand what C&R means.

Can someone shed a little light on this? I looked around for a "abbreviations for dummies" sticky but didn't find one quickly.

Thanks!! Glad to be here!

t0kie
10-31-2011, 11:53 AM
Welcome to Calguns.

Here's C&R definition from Wikipedia:

Collectors of Curio and Relic (C&R) Firearms

A special type of FFL is available to collectors of curio or relic (C&R) firearms. C&R firearms are defined in Title 27, Code of Federal Regulations, Part 478.11 as those "...of special interest to collectors by reason of some quality other than is associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons." An application for a C&R FFL is filed using ATF Form 7CR.

To be recognized by ATF as a C&R firearm, a firearm must fall into at least one of the following three categories:
1.Firearms manufactured more than 50 years prior to the current date, not including replicas
2.Firearms certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum that exhibits firearms as curios or relics of museum interest
3.Any other firearms that derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event. Proof of qualification of a particular firearm under this category requires evidence of present value and evidence that like firearms are not available except as collector's items, or that the value of like firearms available in ordinary commercial channels is substantially less.

C&R firearms include most manually-operated and semi-automatic firearms used by a military force prior to 1946. This includes most firearms used by the warring nations in World War I and World War II. However, the firearm must normally also be in its original configuration to retain the C&R designation. So, for example, an unaltered Mauser Karabiner 98k rifle used by the German Army in World War II is a C&R firearmóbut the same rifle "sporterized" with a new stock and finish is generally not considered a C&R firearm. There is an ambiguous point in how the license is currently administered, in that some firearms altered by the militaries that issued them have been confirmed by the BATFE to retain C&R status, though whether this applies to all such conversions (the examples given by the BATFE were the Spanish M1916 Guardia Civil, FR-7, and FR-8 Mausers) also remains ambiguous. However, as long as the receiver (the part of the firearm that is regulated by the BATFE) is over 50 years old (was manufactured before 1961) the firearm qualifies as a Curio & Relic ó the BATFE states explicitly that, in addition to newer firearms it individually approves, firearms automatically achieve C&R status upon turning 50. Certain automatic weapons have been designated as C&R firearms, and although a C&R FFL can be used to acquire these as well, they are also subject to the controls imposed by the National Firearms Act of 1934. ATF maintains a current list of approved C&R firearms on its website.

Licensed collectors (who have been issued a C&R FFL) may acquire C&R firearms in interstate commerce, e.g., via mail or phone order or the Internet, or in person. (This is especially important for collectors of pistols and revolvers since they may not otherwise be acquired outside a collector's state of residence.) However, the selling FFL dealer or collector must have a copy of the buyer's C&R FFL before the C&R firearm can be shipped to the licensed collector. Licensed collectors are not considered to be FFL dealers and have no special privileges concerning non-C&R firearms, nor may they "engage in the business" of regularly selling C&R firearms to persons who do not have an FFL. The purpose of the C&R license is to enable a collector to acquire C&R firearms for his/her personal collection and not to become a firearms dealer

h0use
10-31-2011, 12:18 PM
welcome to calguns!

paul0660
10-31-2011, 12:21 PM
A long gun 50 years old or older can be sold between private parties in California.....that is what is meant by the question in the forums.

johnthomas
10-31-2011, 12:26 PM
Now that you know what a C&R gun is, when selling or buying a C&R long gun, it can be done face to face as long as the person buying the gun is of legal age and legally able to own them. Not required but often asked for is a copy of a drivers license and declaration that the buyer is not a felon or banned from owning a firearm.
A Mosin Nagant often sold at BIG5 is a Curio and Relic, If I put a plastic stock on it or cut the barrel it no longer is a C&R.

paul0660
10-31-2011, 12:30 PM
Now that you know what a C&R gun is, when selling or buying a C&R long gun, it can be done face to face as long as the person buying the gun is of legal age and legally able to own them. Not required but often asked for is a copy of a drivers license and declaration that the buyer is not a felon or banned from owning a firearm.
A Mosin Nagant often sold at BIG5 is a Curio and Relic, If I put a plastic stock on it or cut the barrel it no longer is a C&R.

But it is still 50 years old, no long C&R, and still ok to transfer person to person.

People who are C&R licensees HAVE to have info on the seller to put into their bound book.

Person to person transfers can be done through the mail, because the law does not say face to face.

johnthomas
10-31-2011, 12:42 PM
But it is still 50 years old, no long C&R, and still ok to transfer person to person.

People who are C&R licensees HAVE to have info on the seller to put into their bound book.

Person to person transfers can be done through the mail, because the law does not say face to face.

the firearm must normally also be in its original configuration to retain the C&R designation. So, for example, an unaltered Mauser Karabiner 98k rifle used by the German Army in World War II is a C&R firearmóbut the same rifle "sporterized" with a new stock and finish is generally not considered a C&R firearm

Paul, This is from the reg that was posted above.

paul0660
10-31-2011, 12:46 PM
Paul, This is from the reg that was posted above.

Gotcha, but that is Fed stuff.

I am too tired to remember if 50 year old long guns must also be Fed C&R to be person to person.........you might be right.

bsg
10-31-2011, 2:02 PM
welcome to the forum.

den888
10-31-2011, 2:59 PM
Welcome!

SGGear
10-31-2011, 3:28 PM
Welcome!

R-H
11-01-2011, 2:15 AM
WELCOME!

giantsfan
11-01-2011, 5:49 AM
Wow! I guess that opened up a small can of worms. ;-) Thank you all for the help. I'm glad to be here.

DeanW66
11-01-2011, 5:04 PM
Welcome aboard! And for future reference, most folks don't look in the new-member area for questions so you'd be best served looking for answers in the main areas.

Sonny188
11-01-2011, 5:14 PM
Welcome!

zod
11-01-2011, 8:39 PM
Welcome aboard....fellow Giants fan.

INJUNTOM
11-02-2011, 2:00 AM
http://www.streetrodhq.com/shop/search.lasso?search=dome+light&dept=Car&Go=Go&searchtype=FT

MOONDAWG
11-02-2011, 11:17 AM
Welcome aboard from Florida the "GunShine" state. :cool:

biloutkast
11-02-2011, 11:45 AM
Welcome aboard~!

johnthomas
11-05-2011, 7:40 PM
Wow! I guess that opened up a small can of worms. ;-) Thank you all for the help. I'm glad to be here.

No worms in this can, a friendly discussion. It goes to show you how complicated gun laws can be, even for simple questions.

BlackTydeTactical
11-06-2011, 12:53 PM
Welcome aboard!

.22guy
11-07-2011, 12:51 PM
Welcome to Calguns! :)

peterhungle
11-12-2011, 1:29 PM
Just received my FFL 03 Curios & Relics License. Sent it out to ATF on Oct 25 , got the license in the mail today. Took less than a month.