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FluorideInMyWater
02-16-2007, 6:56 PM
i'm buying a stag upper.AR-15....the question is do i go for the carry handle sights setup or the ARMS #40 A2 sight? i have no real idea what the difference is. is that the 'flip-up' site or what? help!!! :)

TIA

shark92651
02-16-2007, 7:18 PM
Yes, the ARMS #40 is a flip sight. Are you buying a flat-top upper or not yet decided? I like the flat top because you have more options. You can always add a rail mounted carry handle later if you want, or you have more room to mount a red-dot or other type of scope.

Fjold
02-16-2007, 7:39 PM
I agree with the Shark. I bought the 2HL with the ARMS flip up rear and normal front post which works great. The no-site version with the railed gas block would be good also.

6mmAI
02-16-2007, 9:32 PM
i'm buying a stag upper.AR-15....the question is do i go for the carry handle sights setup or the ARMS #40 A2 sight? i have no real idea what the difference is. is that the 'flip-up' site or what? help!!! :)

TIA

Forget the Stag, go with a White Oak Precision Upper. Money well spent and no regrets. The best of the best.

bwiese
02-16-2007, 9:36 PM
Forget the Stag, go with a White Oak Precision Upper. Money well spent and no regrets. The best of the best.

That's a specialty upper without a chrome-lined barrel, and with a tight chamber.

Your first AR upper should have a standard chrome-lined bbl with milspec chamber. You can get fancy later on.

marlon671
02-16-2007, 9:50 PM
i heard that stag was ok ti start off with. worth ur money type a deal. i got mines for 260. slightly used. i just need to order the bcg.

FluorideInMyWater
02-16-2007, 11:28 PM
Forget the Stag, go with a White Oak Precision Upper. Money well spent and no regrets. The best of the best.


i'm a lefty.....want a lefty

FluorideInMyWater
02-16-2007, 11:30 PM
I agree with the Shark. I bought the 2HL with the ARMS flip up rear and normal front post which works great. The no-site version with the railed gas block would be good also.


so the 2hl is flip up site? is that better than the carry-handle site, which im guessing is just a non-adjustable site?

Technical Ted
02-16-2007, 11:49 PM
so the 2hl is flip up site? is that better than the carry-handle site, which im guessing is just a non-adjustable site?
Oh boy, I think you're a little confused.

THe detachable carry handle has a rear sight assembly that is adjustable for windage and elevation, just like the fixed carry handle on the M16A2 upper.

The detachable carry handle can be removed from the upper receiver rail so that you can mount an optic (red dot, telescopic).

The ARMS 40 is a rear Back Up Iron Sight to be used if your optic goes down. It is stowed in the down position to allow clearance for the optic and flips up when you need it (Sometimes removal of the optic is necessary depending on the the form factor of the optic).

The ARMS 40 rear BUIS is only adjustable for windage and not elevation (The front sight post can be used to adjust for elevation).

mltrading
02-17-2007, 9:32 AM
Go flip-up rear sight and save the space for optics. ARMS #40 series is a good choice.;) (40, 40A2, 40L, 40LSP)

FluorideInMyWater
02-17-2007, 12:24 PM
Oh boy, I think you're a little confused.

THe detachable carry handle has a rear sight assembly that is adjustable for windage and elevation, just like the fixed carry handle on the M16A2 upper.

The detachable carry handle can be removed from the upper receiver rail so that you can mount an optic (red dot, telescopic).

The ARMS 40 is a rear Back Up Iron Sight to be used if your optic goes down. It is stowed in the down position to allow clearance for the optic and flips up when you need it (Sometimes removal of the optic is necessary depending on the the form factor of the optic).

The ARMS 40 rear BUIS is only adjustable for windage and not elevation (The front sight post can be used to adjust for elevation).

TT-
so the carry handle sighting is actually a more "functional" sight than the flip-up ARMS #40 then...if i'm reading you correctly.
i'm not interested in optics at this point, so that being said it sounds like the stag 1HL is the better choice for me since it has the detachable carry handle, (yeah?)

TIA!!!

maxicon
02-17-2007, 12:41 PM
Functionally, there's little difference between a carry handle sight and a good flip-up, once you get past the differences in sight types (A1, A2, same-plane, etc).

Practically, a flip-up is much more flexible, as you can use it by itself with no optics mounted, or with a variety of optics, while the carry handle sight limits the optics you can mount, and only buys you the ability to carry it by the handle. A flip-up also reduces the weight a good bit over a carry handle, if that matters.

If I had to choose, I'd definitely get a fixed or flip-up removable rear before getting a carry handle, and use a sling for carrying.

Note that flip-ups can have clearance problems with traditional scopes, so if you think you might want to run a traditional scope, you'd do well to get a low-profile flip-up.

If you're planning on running a non-magnified optic like an Eotech or similar, you definitely want a flip-up rather than a carry handle.

Technical Ted
02-17-2007, 12:59 PM
TT-
so the carry handle sighting is actually a more "functional" sight than the flip-up ARMS #40 then...if i'm reading you correctly.
i'm not interested in optics at this point, so that being said it sounds like the stag 1HL is the better choice for me since it has the detachable carry handle, (yeah?)

TIA!!! My recommendation would be to get the upper with the ARMS #40. Sell the #40 and get a Troy rear BUIS.

As I mentioned, elevation can still be adjusted with the front sight post.

Cbieling
02-17-2007, 1:11 PM
Check out the pictures on my website at www.lanworlinc.com and you will also find good prices for your choices. My site shows all the different versions.

Thanks,
Chris

FluorideInMyWater
02-17-2007, 1:55 PM
yes, chris.........i'm already buying this from you :)
just trying to decide WHICH model i'm buying from you :D

permanent_45
02-17-2007, 8:21 PM
That's a specialty upper without a chrome-lined barrel, and with a tight chamber.

Your first AR upper should have a standard chrome-lined bbl with milspec chamber. You can get fancy later on.

Good advice. Stag is nice for the price. A little more and you could get a CMMG(worth the extr*****) RRA is also very nice for the price. If you want to get the most bang for the buck you can't go wrong with Del-Ton. (IMHO)

Prc329
02-17-2007, 8:29 PM
I own a Stag 2h and it is a great upper. Works good and when I do my part it is very accurate. I replaced the hand guard and the front sight with a yhm light weight forearm and flip up sight/gas block. It is a very nice piece. If you are near Cerritos, CA Ammo Bros has one in a similar setup for I believe $399.

FluorideInMyWater
02-17-2007, 8:29 PM
Good advice. Stag is nice for the price. A little more and you could get a CMMG(worth the extr*****) RRA is also very nice for the price. If you want to get the most bang for the buck you can't go wrong with Del-Ton. (IMHO)

possibly, but i am a south-paw and want a lefty AR, ergo the stag.

FluorideInMyWater
02-17-2007, 8:32 PM
Practically, a flip-up is much more flexible, as you can use it by itself with no optics mounted, or with a variety of optics, while the carry handle sight limits the optics you can mount, and only buys you the ability to carry it by the handle. A flip-up also reduces the weight a good bit over a carry handle, if that matters.

how much does a detachable carry handle weigh? i would think it would be almost negligable, but i've never held one.....

FluorideInMyWater
02-17-2007, 8:34 PM
I own a Stag 2h and it is a great upper. Works good and when I do my part it is very accurate. I replaced the hand guard and the front sight with a yhm light weight forearm and flip up sight/gas block. It is a very nice piece. If you are near Cerritos, CA Ammo Bros has one in a similar setup for I believe $399.

the full upper? lefty or righty?

Prc329
02-17-2007, 8:39 PM
Righty. Yeah it was complete. They also had Ar10 uppers and Fulton armory lowers. Those AR10s are monsters.

anotherted
02-17-2007, 8:46 PM
possibly, but i am a south-paw and want a lefty AR, ergo the stag.

Im a lefty and just bought a standard (RH) upper. Its really not a problem.

maxicon
02-17-2007, 10:01 PM
how much does a detachable carry handle weigh? i would think it would be almost negligable, but i've never held one.....

My detachable carry handle (claimed to be Colt, but who knows?) weighs 262 grams, or 9.2 oz.

My Arms #40 A2 sight weighs 54 grams, or 1.9 oz.

For comparison overall, my vanilla CMMG M4 upper with b/c/ch and no rear sight weighs 1727 grams, or 60.9 oz, or 3.8 lbs. For this configuration, the carry handle adds 15% to the weight, while the #40 adds 3%. It all adds up after a while.

MFortie
02-18-2007, 7:40 AM
I'm somewhat in the same boat -- 1st build, left-handed. I had decided on the Stag 3HL, 'cause I like the rail and want to put on an EOTech. Unfortunately the budget doesn't allow for the EOTech at the same time as the upper and I do want to shoot the rifle, so....

I'm pretty set on getting the 2HTL now -- ARMS BUIS, with the rail and free-floated barrel (which is something I would've down down the line anyway.) The standard AR front post is my only concern but I've read a few posts that talk about using the EOTech with the post and it working fine. I suppose it would be cheaper/easier and more advantageous to go this route and remove the front post if I really didn't like it.

The carry handle has never been on my list of wanted items -- I'll use a sling and since I'm a total AR newb (never even fired one) I don't have any pre-conceptions about how it's 'supposed' to be configured...

Regards,

Mark

EDIT -- OK, gotta correct something here (and tell a little story.) Many years ago when I was a younger man I worked for a beer distributor loading trucks overnight. One of my co-workers brought in his AR one night and did a little in-the-warehouse target practice (and in the canyon and in the air -- he was a bit reckless.) Anyway I did fire one shot -- did you know that a .223 will not pass all the way through a pallet of beer? :rolleyes:

Before anyone gets too upset, let me tell you we were shooting at a pallet of Near Beer so it wasn't a waste. :eek:

Like I said this guy was a squirrel and pretty reckless -- he ended up getting fired a month or so later (I had nothing to do with it!) I ended up meeting up with him again 25 years later by responding to a rifle for sale post and he ended up in the Border Patrol! Now I guess he can shoot all he wants...

Since Near Beer was not a real big seller it wasn't until almost a year later that I was loading a truck and picked up a case that was much lighter than the rest -- and had a .223 55g projectile rattling around in and empty can! :D

tenpercentfirearms
02-18-2007, 8:01 AM
For your first gun I would recommend the 1HL just so you can get used to the irons and have them be fully adjustible. You are not going to want to adjust the front sight post for elevation out in the field. If you are in no hurry to get optics, you can always sell the carry handle later and use that for a flip up front.

Just thinking like a newbie, I think I would be disappointed in a ARMS #40 if I didn't have any optics to go along with it. Go with the 1HL first is what I recommend.

Paratus et Vigilans
02-18-2007, 9:13 AM
One more thing to consider when choosing between an elevation-adjustable rear sight, like the one on the A3 carry-handle, and an ARMS #40 flip up that only adjusts for windage, is this: if you're looking to be accurate beyond 300 yards, you need the rear sight to adjust for elevation. Like Wes sais, you don't want to be messing around with your front sight post out in the field. You can do it, but it's a pain. Get that front sight post set so you're target zeroed at 100 or 200 yards, and then use an elevation-adjustable rear sight for longer distances.

Also, if you are using the A3 carry handle sights on your Stag (I've got four Stag leftys - thanks Wes! - two of them with A3 carry handle sights and the other two with EOTech 512's with ARMS #40's as BUIS), you're going to want to get the taller front sight post than the one that comes with the gun, because otherwise you're going to have that thing cranked up so high you're going to see daylight under the base of it, and you won't like that, and it feels like it's going to pop out of the base anytime now. Some people recommend the taller front sight post for the ARMS #40 flip up, too, but I haven't found the need to use one on those - maybe because I have those on my 16" barrel builds and not on the 20" barrel builds.

I don't know who all sells the taller front sight posts - I got mine from the Bushmaster website. http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/scopes/9349056-m.asp

One more thing - if you decide to try high power shooting, the lefty Stags are not "legal" as service rifles under the CMP/NRA rules. I've got my righty White Oak upper on order, since my BRD has mutated and evolved into the high power shooting variant, and I need the right stuff to go shootin' with.

However, my lefty Stags are still my favorites! :)

MFortie
02-18-2007, 4:36 PM
For your first gun I would recommend the 1HL just so you can get used to the irons and have them be fully adjustible. You are not going to want to adjust the front sight post for elevation out in the field. If you are in no hurry to get optics, you can always sell the carry handle later and use that for a flip up front.

Just thinking like a newbie, I think I would be disappointed in a ARMS #40 if I didn't have any optics to go along with it. Go with the 1HL first is what I recommend.

Well...

I do have a Burris Scout scope I could pull off my Marlin .30-30 until I have enough for the EOTech (or maybe an ACOG if I wait long enough.) Would that change your suggestion?

Since I'm on the sundown side of 50, my eyes don't work quite as well as they used to -- distance tends to blur a bit. Iron sights don't float my boat anymore. (Once upon a time I had fighter pilot eyes -- 20/15; at least that's what the Doc said when I did my flight medical.)

Thanks,

Mark

indetrucks
02-18-2007, 6:49 PM
yes, chris.........i'm already buying this from you :)
just trying to decide WHICH model i'm buying from you :D

I just got my 1H from Chris over at Lanworld..

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=49624

It is damn near perfect on the color match (to me) but then again, I am a bit color blind :p

maxicon
02-18-2007, 7:09 PM
I do have a Burris Scout scope I could pull off my Marlin .30-30 until I have enough for the EOTech (or maybe an ACOG if I wait long enough.) Would that change your suggestion?

If you're going to mount pretty much any kind of optic, a carry handle will get in your way. There are options for mounting optics with one, but most aren't very satisfying, at least to me. The best bet IMO is a non-magnified optic mounted on a handguard rail on a mount high enough to co-witness. I have an Aimpoint clone mounted like that on my .22 A2 upper, as shown below, and it works well.

A scout scope won't be very compatible with a carry handle. Dunno if the upper you're looking at has handguard rails, but that's what you'd need to mount a scout scope along with a carry handle. If you pull the handle, an extended scout rail would work, depending on the scope's eye relief, but then you're back to not having iron sights without pulling the rail and installing the carry handle.

A2 style upper with a forend mounted Aimpoint clone:

http://www.maxicon.com/guns/ar/DPMS_22-1a.jpg