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redrex
10-27-2011, 11:45 PM
What is the recommended SHTF stockpile?

For guns I currently Own...
500 rds - 223 surplus rounds
100 rds - 223 match grade
400 rds - 12ga BirdShot
100 rds - 12ga OO Buckshot
100 rds - 12ga Slugs
600 rds - 45 ACP FMJ
600 rds - 9mm FMJ
100 rds - 9mm JHP +P
100 rds - 380 FMJ
50 rds - 380 JHP
2000 rds - 22lr

For guns I don't own but used to
100 rds - 20ga birdshot, planning to keep
80 rds - 7.62x54r

Intimid8tor
10-27-2011, 11:57 PM
What is the recommended SHTF stockpile?



Hate to say it, but more than what you have. At least in your primary calibers.

damon1272
10-28-2011, 1:57 AM
some people may disagree but start adding an extra zero behind each number and you will be in better shape.

WTSGDYBBR
10-28-2011, 3:22 AM
You should have 10k per ca.

AdidasCJ
10-28-2011, 3:37 AM
im at 1300 for my .40 just for SHTF and only 500 for .223, but that will change when i start reloading .223.

problemchild
10-28-2011, 4:44 AM
223 more like 10-50k, 22 20k, 12ga 5k, 45/9mm 5k. would be needed. You could use what you have an one hour or less.

davbog44
10-28-2011, 4:47 AM
Remember, ammo has never been worth zero!:)

Reconsnake
10-28-2011, 7:14 AM
You ask ten people, and you will get ten different answers. I have heard everything under the sun, including 7 billion rounds, as that would equate to one round per second for your average lifetime. You need to evaluate what you are preparing for. Anyone who says you need 5k rounds or more of pistol caliber anything, doesnt have a clue what they are talking about. A hangun of any caliber, is a defensive weapon, not offensive. To say that you are going to be laying down suppressive fire with a pistol, or that your handgun will last 20k rounds, you are merely kidding yourself. A pistol is not my first choice if I need protection, and I hope it isnt yours. A pistol fullfills a role for concealment, not combat effectiveness. It is a trade-off, and when it comes to the preservation of my life or my family's, I am not willing to trust that to a purely defensive, last resort type of weapon. If you are serious about prepping, then take time to seriously think about your question.

Ripon83
10-28-2011, 7:47 AM
It has never been worthless true but it does become worth less. I've bought ammo through the forums here at least 5x and it's a great way to stock up for less. Got 10.5k of 22LR last week for $50 below retail and three ammo cans as well....plus no record of sale.

Those noting a great need for volumes though I'd disagree with in some respects. I plan to barter ammo if it's possible, even pay for services with both weapons and ammo, it's kind of like my " gold" so to speak plus I prefer collecting guns to coins. Fact is 99% will tell you the best gun fight is the one that doesn't happen. The more you carry ( think BOB) the harder it can be to avoid contact.

Quality matters too.


Remember, ammo has never been worth zero!:)

MacOtac
10-28-2011, 7:53 AM
Whatever you can afford.... Rap an pillage the rest.....

paul0660
10-28-2011, 8:00 AM
Remember, ammo has never been worth zero!:)

Actually, if you have to leave it behind, it IS worth zero. Bandoliers etc. are as important as rounds.

I personally don't think telling the world about your stuff is a good idea.

The OP needs more .223, 9mm, and buckshot if he really thinks he is going to have to defend himself in a lawless situation.

CSACANNONEER
10-28-2011, 8:03 AM
It depends on what your definition of SHTF is. If you are seriously thinking of an urban survival situation, you have too much. You won't be able to carry it all and may be unable to return to your cache. If you're thinking in terms of Obama buying frenzy #2 and the lack of availability of ammo for months to years, then, you need to get busy squirreling away a lot more. I would not stop at 20 times what you already have. But then, I never ran low on .22 ammo back in '08 or '09. Now, it's worth at least double of what I paid for it just 4 years ago. How many investments do you have that have done that well in this economy?

CSACANNONEER
10-28-2011, 8:05 AM
It has never been worthless true but it does become worth less. I've bought ammo through the forums here at least 5x and it's a great way to stock up for less. Got 10.5k of 22LR last week for $50 below retail and three ammo cans as well....plus no record of sale.
Those noting a great need for volumes though I'd disagree with in some respects. I plan to barter ammo if it's possible, even pay for services with both weapons and ammo, it's kind of like my " gold" so to speak plus I prefer collecting guns to coins. Fact is 99% will tell you the best gun fight is the one that doesn't happen. The more you carry ( think BOB) the harder it can be to avoid contact.

Quality matters too.

Your posting about it on a public forum is record enough.

Ripon83
10-28-2011, 8:41 AM
Depends on how anonymous we are / aren't on board.

Your posting about it on a public forum is record enough.

CSACANNONEER
10-28-2011, 8:48 AM
Depends on how anonymous we are / aren't on board.

I guess if you only post from differnet Starbucks and do not EVER log onto your account or the email it is attached to at your home, office or any other place that can be traced to you and, you never use a smart phone, it might be possible to stay under the radar. That's just too much trouble for me though. Anyway, I have the knowledge to make my own black powder and the flinters to use it in so, in the end, I can fly under the radar and not have to worry about retaining any property except one rifle.

Ripon83
10-28-2011, 9:14 AM
Iron key buddy !

On the other hand recognize I noted how I'd like to barter. In the right circumstances of "STHF" I need to muster a decent crew to work my ranch and generate a stellar future. I'd want to pay them with ARs, ammo, all they can eat, safety, some silver and a bright future. You might consider some posts "recruiting" measures. :)


I guess if you only post from differnet Starbucks and do not EVER log onto your account or the email it is attached to at your home, office or any other place that can be traced to you and, you never use a smart phone, it might be possible to stay under the radar. That's just too much trouble for me though. Anyway, I have the knowledge to make my own black powder and the flinters to use it in so, in the end, I can fly under the radar and not have to worry about retaining any property except one rifle.

problemchild
10-28-2011, 9:34 AM
I guess if you only post from differnet Starbucks and do not EVER log onto your account or the email it is attached to at your home, office or any other place that can be traced to you and, you never use a smart phone, it might be possible to stay under the radar. That's just too much trouble for me though. Anyway, I have the knowledge to make my own black powder and the flinters to use it in so, in the end, I can fly under the radar and not have to worry about retaining any property except one rifle.

Google and every other online company logs and matches your Mac number with EVERY IP you connect from. So unless you have a one time disposable network card and wear a fake face into starbucks (to avoid video cameras) they got you.

Saym14
10-28-2011, 9:39 AM
some people may disagree but start adding an extra zero behind each number and you will be in better shape.

^ this

plus if you dont shoot it in self defence you can use it to barter. or hunt for food.

redrex
10-28-2011, 9:51 AM
If I was all that concerned there are dozens of free programs out there that will anonymize your web usage. Wired did a pretty good test with one of their writers taking off for several months, moving around the us and then posting using this software and challenging their readers to find him. He eventually did get caught but only because he got lazy and because of clues he gave out on purpose.

That being said, I doubt my list of ammo would even make their to 1,000 people to watch in the bay area alone. And if the S does HTF they will have bigger problems then one guy taking care of his family.

My plan is shelter in place, wait out the first big wave of chaos and then move on afterwords :)

As to pistols, I only have three and while I may get more it will only be in 9mm or 45.

Long guns I'm better stocked in. I do however plan to get a 308 in the near future but 223 is our standard gun of choice. Which means that I need to start getting serious about reloading that :)

problemchild
10-28-2011, 9:56 AM
If I was all that concerned there are dozens of free programs out there that will anonymize your web usage. Wired did a pretty good test with one of their writers taking off for several months, moving around the us and then posting using this software and challenging their readers to find him. He eventually did get caught but only because he got lazy and because of clues he gave out on purpose.

That being said, I doubt my list of ammo would even make their to 1,000 people to watch in the bay area alone. And if the S does HTF they will have bigger problems then one guy taking care of his family.

My plan is shelter in place, wait out the first big wave of chaos and then move on afterwords :)

As to pistols, I only have three and while I may get more it will only be in 9mm or 45.

Long guns I'm better stocked in. I do however plan to get a 308 in the near future but 223 is our standard gun of choice. Which means that I need to start getting serious about reloading that :)

Move on to where?

Roads are for people who like to be ambushed. Id say within a few hours to maybe a day or two the roads will be giant ambush points. Leave town with food, gold and ammo and you are handing it over to the first group of heavily armed thugs you meet.

Are you heading for the hills? Most people think they will leave to no destination and find some well stocked cabin in the hills. I can tell you for a fact that many small towns have contingency plans to shut the roads down so no one comes in or passes through.

redrex
10-28-2011, 11:01 AM
Move on to where?

Roads are for people who like to be ambushed. Id say within a few hours to maybe a day or two the roads will be giant ambush points. Leave town with food, gold and ammo and you are handing it over to the first group of heavily armed thugs you meet.

Are you heading for the hills? Most people think they will leave to no destination and find some well stocked cabin in the hills. I can tell you for a fact that many small towns have contingency plans to shut the roads down so no one comes in or passes through.

What you are talking about is more TEOTWAWKI and less SHTF. Your talking giant solar flare, Nuclear War and/or Zombies!!! Which, I think we can all agree, would suck. But is also on the outside of likely. To which, I would be going overland via 4x4 and crossing my fingers.

But back to a more possible, if lower level of excitement SHTF scenario. Say major earthquake, viral outbreak, or economic collapse. I find it highly unlikely that their will be ambushes every mile or so for sometime. In those cases, civilization is most likely to deteriorate at an exponentially lower rate the farther you get away from cities.

You don't pay the SF cops and after a day or two most will stop showing up. You don't pay some rural county sheriff deputies and they are still likely to show up for work for some time because they are part of the local community.

I've been reading a lot of examples of civilization decline and I'm confident that in a SHTF scenario I can still wait out the local drama and still manage to get out of town without getting wacked at the first intersection.

As to the WHERE I would be going, well that is confidential at this time :) I will say this though. I will be monitoring Channel 7 on FMS, 17 on GMRS and 17 on CB.

echo1
10-28-2011, 11:27 AM
In the right circumstances of "STHF" I need to muster a decent crew to work my ranch and generate a stellar future. :)
That's a good starter pile. I have a huge crew with many skills, most in Ripon. PAX

Federalist
10-28-2011, 11:51 AM
OP: How much depends on your SHTF plans, $ and comfort level.

I think you need more .223. It may be your primary defensive weapon. 5k rounds is not too much.

For your handgun(s), I have more 9mm than other calibers since it is the smallest and lightest to pack and carry. 2k rounds is not too much.

I think 10k rounds of 22lr is pretty cheap and easy to store. Why not?

As for 12g, I have a different view than some others. I have the least # of rounds for my 12g. Don't forget you will want some slugs too.

All that said, if you have the resources, I generally believe that more is better . . . for me at least. It is better to have and not need, than to need and not have. If I bug out, I may not be able to carry all of it. But my travelling friends might. At least I have options when the time comes.

Ripon83
10-28-2011, 12:33 PM
There is very little way to predict what kind of SHTF, but its possible you might need to leave asap, might want to shelter in forever, and leaving after some time might make sense.

For example in the the "Scenario EMP" thread. I thought I'd shelter in a week, and then leave on bike. I moved it up to 4 or 5 days before moving out. I don't know how long it would really be until people start closing their little gift of a road down and killing people who try to pass - but I think it will be more than a week. Plus I only needed to get out of an area and into a more remote area that would take just a few days. Then avoid Reno which I found out recently is not that hard.

Echo....just need a group of hard working stiffs that can bust their butts farming, hunting, and building. Quite possibly the old fashioned ways.

gunafficionado
10-28-2011, 5:06 PM
More is always better. You never know when SHTF will be over. Plus any extra you might have will be good for trade/barter.

KevinB
10-28-2011, 5:44 PM
Like money, booze, and broads, you can never have enough.

You ain't got nearly enough.

mag360
10-28-2011, 6:22 PM
get about 2k rounds next time cabelas has that sellier & bellot 9mm on sale. what you have i put through on a trip to the range with my girlfriend.

wash
10-28-2011, 6:28 PM
I think you are about 35% to acceptable and acceptable is about 50% to preferred.

xgi1991
10-28-2011, 6:46 PM
set yourself up to reload at least one caliber, but there is no such thing, unless your the BATF, than too much ammo. Myself, I set up with for 12g (cost me about $300 for a Lee Loader and 2000 rounds of pre-primed shells, powder and 2000 extra primers), but I stock the others like they are going out of style.

Dutch3
10-28-2011, 6:55 PM
Stocking calibers for guns you don't own might also be a good idea for various reasons.

cannon
10-28-2011, 6:59 PM
Buy ammo in bulk and pay less.

Most disaster situations are local. Earthquake, riot, gas leaks, explosions etc. The odds of a state/country/world wide event is small.

And if a meteor does hit the earth and cause three years of airborne soil that blots out the sun or a virus keeps you indoors for a year... Need I say it? Food will be a bigger concern.

In the meantime the reason to buy ammo in bulk is so you and your family can go to the range and have fun and practice your skills.

paul0660
10-28-2011, 7:17 PM
Now, it's worth at least double of what I paid for it just 4 years ago. How many investments do you have that have done that well in this economy?

It is only a profitable investment if you sell it. Now, it is just inventory.

I know you know that.

Divernhunter
10-28-2011, 7:42 PM
OP ----Do not feel bad. At one time I only had that much myself. Since I had to retire I have slowly been using up my supply and not adding much to it. Good thing I have "plenty" of brass,bullets,primers and powder for all the cartridges I load for and that is many.

h0use
10-28-2011, 7:59 PM
10k of 22lr
6k .223
6k 762x39
2k 9mm
2k 45
500 38.
500 357
500 .308
1k 762x54
300 454 casull
2k 12 birdshot 300 00.buck 150 slugs


lots of gun poweder primers and reloading supplys.
ammo will be like money soon!

thenodnarb
10-28-2011, 11:22 PM
If I live long enough to fire 4k rounds in various firefights, I figure I'm pretty lucky. Seriously, without training or military experience, how long are you really going to last in your worst case scenario?Now, maybe in a MAG, you might make it through.

Seriously though, I think most people approach prepping from the wrong angle. Do you have water? Do you have food? Do you have matches, TP, candles, flashlights batteries etc? A generator? Gas, even enough to fill just one tank incase you can't refuel?
The situations in which you will need a gun in SHTF scenario are very unlikely. Yet most people want to start with the guns(because its fun). Some people like to say they'll use their guns to get the preps they need. Well what if its a local disaster, and the rule of law remains in tact? What now? You gonna turn criminal just to get you through 2 weeks of no power, and no water? (All your plans BTW should include the rule of law in them. Without it just makes it easier in most cases)

I can tell that you probably don't have what you need in other preps simply because you have to ask the question. Someone who had their stuff together would already have an idea of how much ammo they need. You have plenty for now, so get your other stuff in order first. Buy ammo when you see deals, but you can build it slowly. Also,don't shoot it. Keep a separate stash for shooting.

Doheny
10-28-2011, 11:57 PM
/\/\ Sage advice.

Stormfeather
10-29-2011, 12:43 AM
For the most part, lots of excellent advice here. Buy it cheap, stock it deep! Make sure all of your other preps arent lacking though. Its great to have all the ammo in the world, but if you dont have a swallow of clean water, what good does all that ammo do ya? See what I mean? Im a family guy, so my concern for prepping has been food stores, water purification, and the ability to continue on if the small chance that **** goes totally awry. All the while, Ive been stocking up on ammo deals when I find them. I treat the ammo no different that I do the #10 cans of beef gravy, beans, powdered milk, ect ect. It looks like you definietly got a great start though, maximize your rifle ammo, and I would say only buy the pistola ammo when there are really great deals! Also, find someone in your area, fellow cgn'er, prepper, survivalist, shooter, ect ect, and go in on bulk buys together, a great way to stockpile and buy at a greatly reduced bulk price.

Hope this helps and RedRex, sounds like you are I will be on the same channels, so if you ever have to do a full huge long distance bugout, and find yourself in my AO, look me up! I go by the same screen name here as a callsign, so its pretty easy to get in contact if you really find yourself in a bad situation and you are in my AO! That offer goes out to all here on CGN. But as Ive said before, and I will say again, dont come empty handed, ya gotta bring something to the table besides a appetite!

h0use
10-29-2011, 4:09 AM
I think alot of people on here are prepaired. When the blackout hit I was able to power my home! I have about 2 month supply of fule to run my whole house plus my camper. 3 month supply for water for 4 people and 3 month supply of food. I shoot about 1000 rounds a month and run drills with friends out in the desert about 3 times a month. There are alot of calguners that are more prepared than me and others!

GrizzlyGuy
10-29-2011, 6:08 AM
James Rawles over at Survivalblog.com says (http://www.survivalblog.com/2008/01/letter_re_how_much_ammunition.html):

It is important to maintain balance in your preparations. Food storage, first aid supplies, and heirloom seed storage should be priorities. But after those have been taken acre of, it makes sense to stock up on ammunition. As long as you store your ammo in sealed military surplus cans, there is no risk in over-estimating your needs, since ammunition has a 50+ year storage life if protected from oil vapors and humidity. Consider any extra ammo the ideal barter item. The late Col. Jeff Cooper rightly called it "ballistic wampum."

For your barter inventory, I recommend that you stick to the most common calibers: For rifles: .22 Long Rifle, .223, .308, .30-06 (and in the British Commonwealth, .303 British.) For handguns: 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP. For shotguns, 12 gauge and 20 gauge. As I've previously mentioned, you might also buy a small quantity of the "regional favorite" deer cartridge for your area, as well as your local police or sheriff's department standard calibers. (Ask at you local gun shop.)

I consider the following figures minimums:
2,000 per battle rifle
500 per hunting rifle
800 per primary handgun
2,000 per .22 rimfire
500 per riotgun

If you can afford it, three times those figures would meet the "comfort level" of most survivalists. In an age of inflation, consider that supply better than money in the bank...

Beagle
10-29-2011, 2:40 PM
223 more like 10-50k, 22 20k, 12ga 5k, 45/9mm 5k. would be needed. You could use what you have an one hour or less.

Maybe if you were playing COD. I doubt anyone used that many rounds in a combat zone with their rifle.

Ripon83
10-29-2011, 2:50 PM
Recognize that ammunition in "SHTF" will have another use besides defense and hunting. For many it will serve as a form of money. Its been said by those who, for some reason, don't think gold and silver matter to much that ammunition would be a greater form of barter. For small things I agree. I'm not going to give up a one ounce gold coin for a few chickens and some bread. I'd give up a brick of 22LR for as much though and probably more. Small purchases with small amounts of ammo would be quite possible in a SHTF world.

To that extent no amount of extra ammunition is bad so long as its protected, secure, and in good shape.

EmptySkuLL
10-29-2011, 2:50 PM
Grizzly, I tend to agree with what Rawles states, not the hard numbers per se, but that you should stock up ammo on a PER WEAPON basis.

You may have 5, 10, 20, or 30, etc, weapons of the same caliber so the idea of just stocking arbitrarily 10,000 rounds per caliber really isnt enough. I like to stock a MINIMUM of 5,000 rounds per WEAPON, not including barter ammo and paper punching ammo.

Some of you ask why? Well, if I have extra bodies (moocher relatives, unprepared friends, or someone in my group that has a weapon malfunction or weapon loss) that are able to pull triggers and enough weapons to put into thier hands, I damn well better have enough ammo to give them. Your ammo supply should be proportionate to the inventory of weaponry you own.

(Obviously training the extra inexperienced monkeys you have to not take you or each other out via friendly fire is a different subject).

Bizcuits
10-29-2011, 5:05 PM
take the 500 rounds you have for your 223 (assuming ar or mini?) take it out to a range where you can rapid fire. Then burn through it as fast as humanly possible. You'll find it won't last very long. Once it's gone, realize had you been in a real shoot out during a riot you'd now have to last the remainder of the rioting without any primary ammo for your main rifle.

I'm not saying this in a negative way, but it would be a good learning experience no?

I keep roughly 5K on hand in .223 and an equal amount of 9mm.

My mains are my STAG15, Mini14, Glock 19 and then my wife with her Beretta 92fs... .223 and 9mm will go fast at my house... :(

EvoXRiley
10-30-2011, 1:49 PM
im at 2k round of 5.45 x 39 and 500 for 9mm.

For those who think you need more then 200 rounds for any firefight, your more then likely to be dead before you waste all your ammo, in a SHTF situation. Combat Firefights last MAYBE 5 mins on average, usually just a few pop shots and that was it

and itd be a smarter decision to turn and burn unless you had no choice but defend yourself.

Kid Stanislaus
10-30-2011, 4:39 PM
.....plus if you dont shoot it in self defence you can use it to barter. or hunt for food.

But you CAN'T barter it away, you may (at some future point in time) NEED it to defend yourself!! You just don't know how many hundreds of thousands of zombies may or may not be headed your way!:rolleyes:

Kid Stanislaus
10-30-2011, 4:55 PM
10k of 22lr
6k .223
6k 762x39
2k 9mm
2k 45
500 38.
500 357
500 .308
1k 762x54
300 454 casull
2k 12 birdshot 300 00.buck 150 slugs
lots of gun poweder primers and reloading supplys.
ammo will be like money soon!


Correct me if I'm wrong here but I thought .308 and 7.62X54 were the same thing.:confused:

EvoXRiley
10-30-2011, 4:57 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong here but I thought .308 and 7.62X54 were the same thing.:confused:

308 & 7.62 x 51 are almost identical

Sent from my phone,please excuse any errors as my fingers are to big!

TurboChrisB
10-30-2011, 6:46 PM
I don't believe under any situation anyone here is EVER gonna expend 500 rounds of .223. It just doesn't happen. In a riot/civil unrest end of the world scenario....it STILL won't happen. If you are attacked...and you respond with a battle rifle....the attackers are gonna LEAVE. They will move on to an easier target. There aren't gonna be prolonged firefights. It's all about shoot n scoot. If you are half prepared, keep your head, and encounter the likely worst case scenario....You'd still be hard pressed to shoot more than a mag or two over the course of an entire firefight. Unless the ruskies are invading...it's just not gonna happen.

Course all that being said...In my BOL I keep about 2000 .223, 3000 9mm, 2000 .40, 300 .50 Beowulf, 1000 .45, 500 30.06 and 5000.22. But I can't honestly imagine a scenario (outside of a war) where I'd have extended firefights and shoot hundreds of rounds.


take the 500 rounds you have for your 223 (assuming ar or mini?) take it out to a range where you can rapid fire. Then burn through it as fast as humanly possible. You'll find it won't last very long. Once it's gone, realize had you been in a real shoot out during a riot you'd now have to last the remainder of the rioting without any primary ammo for your main rifle.

I'm not saying this in a negative way, but it would be a good learning experience no?

I keep roughly 5K on hand in .223 and an equal amount of 9mm.

My mains are my STAG15, Mini14, Glock 19 and then my wife with her Beretta 92fs... .223 and 9mm will go fast at my house... :(

Saym14
10-30-2011, 9:55 PM
I don't believe under any situation anyone here is EVER gonna expend 500 rounds of .223. It just doesn't happen. In a riot/civil unrest end of the world scenario....it STILL won't happen. If you are attacked...and you respond with a battle rifle....the attackers are gonna LEAVE. They will move on to an easier target. There aren't gonna be prolonged firefights. It's all about shoot n scoot. If you are half prepared, keep your head, and encounter the likely worst case scenario....You'd still be hard pressed to shoot more than a mag or two over the course of an entire firefight. Unless the ruskies are invading...it's just not gonna happen.

Course all that being said...In my BOL I keep about 2000 .223, 3000 9mm, 2000 .40, 300 .50 Beowulf, 1000 .45, 500 30.06 and 5000.22. But I can't honestly imagine a scenario (outside of a war) where I'd have extended firefights and shoot hundreds of rounds.

I shoot off 500 rounds at a good morning at the range. :(

redrex
10-30-2011, 10:50 PM
Thanks for the input guys. And for those who had mentioned it, yes I'm working on the rest of my "stash". I will say that FOOD, is probably the one I'm behind the most on and that's because I live, literally, above a grocery store. One of the big box types.

Water I'm doing ok on. We keep about 8 food grade jerry cans full on a rotation cycle. Plus we have a decent stock of purification tabs. I've also been reading up on gravity filters. And I have a still that I can run it through as the final step.

But back to guns. Right now my 223's are for a couple of Saigas. I'm happy with them, very. But I'd like to have long guns to outfit a small group. Say 8-12. Is there a 223 semi auto that is decent, reliable and cheaper then the saiga? I'm guessing no but I thought I'd ask.

Oh and anyone know a good local ( bay area ), seed seller. I have a small cache of heirloom seeds but I'd like to get more.

GotMojo
10-31-2011, 7:03 AM
Google and every other online company logs and matches your Mac number with EVERY IP you connect from. So unless you have a one time disposable network card and wear a fake face into starbucks (to avoid video cameras) they got you.

You need to brush up on your TCP/IP basics.

The MAC address is used at the link layer (OSI layer 2). Google doesn't see it unless you're hooked up directly to their routers, you specifically broadcast it to them through other means or your ISP decides to share their ARP tables.

cannon
10-31-2011, 7:11 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong here but I thought .308 and 7.62X54 were the same thing.:confused:

.308s are used in rifles like the M1A and 7.62X54(r) are shaped differently and are commonly used in PSLs and Moisen-nagants. They will not fit in a rifle chambered for .308 or 7.62X51 <-- same round.

echo1
10-31-2011, 11:29 AM
take the 500 rounds you have for your 223 (assuming ar or mini?) take it out to a range where you can rapid fire. Then burn through it as fast as humanly possible.

Don't do this, that's what your .22LR is for. Even at $.25 a round that's 125 bucks for what? PAX