PDA

View Full Version : Discriminated for being a hunter and gun owner.


sindominator
10-17-2011, 7:21 PM
So last Friday Oct. 14, 2011 I went through perhaps the most humiliating day of my life so far. The company I work for decided to part ways with me. To keep it short and skinny, I feel that I was let go for not kissing certain individuals (management) hairy rear. So they found a cheesy excuse to fire and me. I went into a conference room with my manager and the companies CFO. Before I even finish taking a seat, my manager immediately blurs out “(my name)… This isn’t working and we are terminating you immediately”. I kept my cool and took it like man. I am sure there was nothing I could do honestly, but take it. The CFO went over some paper work needed and a few autographs here and there. When I left the conference room, 2 large cardboard boxes in my cube were waiting for me. My manager explain that they needed all property returned to them. Cell, laptop, keyboard, mouse etc… etc... After handing everything over I was expected to be left alone and gather all my things, pictures, posters, personal stuff you know. Also time alone to reflect whatever I can or just gather my things in private. Well he stood there watching me with a Hawkeye so that I would steal anything I guess. This made me rather mad because our company makes 2 products and are both are around 900lbs. So not I like I was going to walk out with one of them in my pocket.

In the process, the operations manager (a real *****! 90% of employees dislike him) comes up as I am putting my stuff away. He tells me “(my name) I am really sorry about this. Everybody here loves you a lot and respects you as a person. However we are a bit paranoid… We know that you are a “Gun Freak” and love hunting. So I decided to call the police to escort you out”. “This is for every ones protection… You heard or saw what happen in Sunnyvale?” (referring to the guy who shot up the beauty salon). This hit me like a giant sack of hammers across my face. Well honestly, more like a large cold knife on my back. I had been with the company since startup. We were 5 and now are about 80 or so employees. I couldn’t believe that I was being treated like a murdering maniac and a thief all at once. As if losing your job wasn’t hard enough. I had to endure that type of humiliation all for having a past time hobby. I was actually generous enough to take the company out the range and play with toys for a little R&R a few years back at my expense. Well I ended using both boxes and I had to take 1 box out to my car. As soon as I open my door a police offer jumps out of his cruiser and immediately asks for my ID. Him my manager and that ***** surround me and walk to my car. As soon as I open my trunk the cop immediately puts one hand near the holster and bumps in to see what was in my trunk. He then asks to open the car doors so he can take a peek inside. At this point there was a part me that was boiling but a larger part me was beginning to break down. Like that movie “Brave Heart” when Wallace is betrayed by that’s Scotts king guy. I was short on breaths my stomach had a giant nod and my throat had a strange sting to it. I walked back towards the building and cop said I couldn’t go or return to the building. I told him that I had another box there. He said they’ll get it for you, I said well I am sorry but my wallet is also there and there still stuff that belongs to me. So the cop came in the building and this time I had 3 folks eye balling me.

The cop then began to call dispatch to run a background check and he asked for my current address and other info normally asked by police at a scene. As I finished, the cop walked me outside and said “before you take off, I need a word with you” I said sure. I put the 2nd box in my car and we had a chit chat. The police officer was also in rather disbelieve that company I help grow would treat me like that. He said he didn’t know what was going onside inside the work-force and he is only there to do he’s job. He also explain what a little of what happen in Sunnyvale and that some people were just taking extra precautions.

What do you guys think? I believe it was prejudice and a sheer coward move because it was Friday and there really no one was left in the building but the manager and that other *****. I don’t think he consulted with other folks management about that chicken shhhhh move.

All weekend long I sat at home just waiting for SWAT to burst through door and audit my toys to see what was legal or not. Because I had no idea what sort of garbage that guy fed them. I just moved in into this neighborhood and I was so worried that it will tarnish my reputation around here. It is hard enough being the color that I am and background were I from. Imagine now, having a load of cops outside my house walking out with over 30 rifles and pistols as evidence or something like that. Honestly a very horrible feeling inside of me right now. I don’t want to take legal action because it’s my friends company. He’s a founder and more of an engineer than anything so he’s really not in control of decisions like that. + he is in Europe expanding the business. Besides that I have many friends there who I adore and would take a bullet for them any day. But honestly if the law does come to my house because they believe something suspicious is here. Then I sir I will see them in court.

Jasonaspears
10-17-2011, 7:25 PM
I'm sorry this happened but honestly, this is why I have kept my mouth shut in regards to my guns unless I know I'm around like-minded folks. Most companies have a strict no guns policy. Hopefully you get unemployment until you find a better opportunity

Us3rName
10-17-2011, 7:29 PM
ridiculous.

Sorry it happened that way man.

I'd just forget about it and call it a day. Put it behind you and move on.

They did their job. Just as you mentioned. Due to recent situations and what not. These are just the "extra" precautions people are taking.

I'm not saying what they did was right. They definitely could've taken another approach. However, they really didn't do anything that raises flags. He explained to you his reasoning - which was fair (for a paranoid person). Did he over think? probably most likely, yes.

You kept your cool which is great. The cop kept his cool and took his appropriate precautions because he doesn't know you. Throughout the ordeal, he got a feel for ya. Before you departed, he asked to speak with you and gave you a low down on why he is doing this and why they wanted it.

edit: seems like you had a very good cop. He didn't infringe your rights. He just "looked" instead of searched.

I think it could've gone in a negative direction easily and you kept it cool.

Sounds fair enough.

part your ways. Put it behind you. Wake up tomorrow and start a new day.

Ubermcoupe
10-17-2011, 7:31 PM
Bummer to hear about losing your job. Losing any job is always a bummer. :(
Do I agree that the guy who called the cops was a capital D? I do.
Do I think it was unfortunate that he brought it up? I do.

What kind of work were you in, do you have a direction to head?

wash
10-17-2011, 7:37 PM
I am going to have to remember to use the audio recorder feature of my phone if I'm ever fired like that.

I would also refuse searches and call a lawyer if I was treated so poorly. There may be some way to get your boss arrested for making a false report but you probably need document the incident before you can force the PD and DA to press charges.

dmcag69
10-17-2011, 7:37 PM
Talk to an attorney, most of all for your protection, if management can have you escorted out like that, what is keeping them from filing a false restraining order on you.

Never go back to the company for any reason. All work places have A holes. Keep your head up and move on.

The Geologist
10-17-2011, 7:41 PM
consult a lawyer. So was there a written "no gun" policy? If you have any signed copies of reviews from your Supervisor indicating how indispensable you were you as an employee you might have some recourse. Especially if there was no policy. Good Luck

sindominator
10-17-2011, 7:45 PM
Thanks guys! Like I said I'll only take a up notch if police do come to my house and search my place for "assualt weapons and stuff". But I did feel like royal poo being compared to a murderer.

The reason folks at work new I was a gun guru, was because many of them are friends and had come to my house and seen my collection. I've been asked advice because I build AR's and AK's and do basic gunsmithing. Many of them actually converted over after I took them the range. They have more respect and are more open minded towards guns. They've always joked around when stuff wasn't working they would say "give to me" for ballistic testing lolol you know that family atsmphore most start up companies have in their first 2-3 years. To be honest everybody there adore the heck out of me exept those 2 dueches because I never kissed their a55.

sindominator
10-17-2011, 7:46 PM
Hell they have even allowed me to use the shop and shop tools for some gunsmthing because they know how much I respect the law no matter how crappy it is. Also my mechanical skills that come from gunsmith have help in some R&D projects. So 98% of them are well minded folks who I adore alot.

damon1272
10-17-2011, 8:04 PM
Best bet is to stop all communications with all folks there. Only talk to the ones that contact you. I would see about finding out the reason you were let go and I would not advertise that you are into guns at the next job unless someone brings it up. Kind of like fight club rules. Plus don't be so sure your buddy did not know. If he is a founder then he knew the axe was falling.

GrizzlyGuy
10-17-2011, 8:20 PM
It's too bad that it's your friend's company. If you were willing to post it's name, I'd personally boycott all of its products forever, and make sure that my company did the same.

FYI, CA allows "employment at will" which basically means that unless you have an employment contract that says otherwise, they can let you go for whatever reason they like or no reason at all. I doubt that you would have a valid legal claim against them even if you wanted to pursue it.

Keep your chin up, you'll find a better job at a better company.

Sillyguy
10-17-2011, 8:23 PM
its your friends company? why don't you talk to him about it?

Turo
10-17-2011, 8:33 PM
I'd be pissed. Sorry you had to be treated like that.

anthonyca
10-17-2011, 9:22 PM
Sorry to hear about that. Betrayal is hard to take.

shmeare
10-17-2011, 9:34 PM
Yup, CA "employment at will" thing is a *****! very narrow way to get something going... spoken to a few lawyers in the past. Then only thing might be character defamation? would they be open to give a good reference moving forward? if not, the only way to get some sort of discrimination would be via sex, religion, age, etc. also very hard to prove. Sorry this happened to you.

It's too bad that it's your friend's company. If you were willing to post it's name, I'd personally boycott all of its products forever, and make sure that my company did the same.

FYI, CA allows "employment at will" which basically means that unless you have an employment contract that says otherwise, they can let you go for whatever reason they like or no reason at all. I doubt that you would have a valid legal claim against them even if you wanted to pursue it.

Keep your chin up, you'll find a better job at a better company.

Maltese Falcon
10-17-2011, 9:35 PM
Let us know if you need any referrals or whatever. What is your specialty?

The CG community is vast and wide.

I am fortunate, my boss and I take training courses together and everyone knows it.

.

Helpful_Cub
10-17-2011, 9:43 PM
Keep your head in the game and start the fun of looking for another job. If your really bummed out, you can always go sit on a mountain some where while your deer hunting and clear your head. In two years you'll be at a new job and you'll look back and realize just how bad your life was at the old place. I'm still amazed at how much better my life is now. :)

dieselpower
10-17-2011, 9:59 PM
post the name of the company after you contact a lawyer.

Protect your rights. The company has no idea that this incident can be held against you later down the road. You need to file against them both stopping them from telling others about this and placing a dollar value to your reputation if they do.

California is an at-will state so they can fire you for any reason NOT protected by law. That doesn't stop you from filing against them for defamation of character and slander....or to make sure they don't do that in the future.

Cathy tells Mary you got fired because, "they are scared of you." Mary tells Matt this and he tells Greg who tells his buddy not to hire you because you threatened to kill your last boss...and even if thats not what happened... Greg's buddy can't take that chance so he doesn't hire you stating something else as the reason he didn't go with you and choose another candidate.

You need to make sure they pay all legal bills too.

armygunsmith
10-17-2011, 10:41 PM
Wow, that's a crappy way to get sent out. Sorry you lost your job.

Scratch705
10-17-2011, 10:54 PM
you should so give freely in an anonymous letter of insider secrets to their competitor for the way they treated you. run them into the ground.

tuna quesadilla
10-17-2011, 11:00 PM
you should so give freely in an anonymous letter of insider secrets to their competitor for the way they treated you. run them into the ground.

That's a fantastic idea. :43:

"If you're in a fair fight, your tactics suck."
- Clint Smith

m98
10-17-2011, 11:00 PM
I'm sorry this happened but honestly, this is why I have kept my mouth shut in regards to my guns unless I know I'm around like-minded folks. Most companies have a strict no guns policy. Hopefully you get unemployment until you find a better opportunity

For over a decade, the company i've worked for never knew I was a gun nut/hunter until this year when the company went out of business. This company was also an at will employer also.

Dave A
10-17-2011, 11:22 PM
Sorry it happened to you in this manner, but more companies are resorting to escorting the terminated employee out the door. Usually this happens late on a Friday and it avoids any negative comments around other employees, or potentially violence in the work place.

The company I worked for before I retired was always run like a bit of a family until it was purchased by a much larger corp. I heard about similar termination procedures under the new management style. I worked with a man who did not have a single personal item in his office. When I asked him why, he replied that he had seen too many people escorted out the door with a few boxes and he vowed it would never happen to him. He could put on his coat and simply walk out with nothing in his hands.

Try not to take it personally, just rebound and move on.

DannyInSoCal
10-17-2011, 11:34 PM
Upgrade your job.

And your friends...

Norsemen308
10-17-2011, 11:49 PM
this sounds like Lawyer Gold, for slander and humiliation, plus, didn't you say your a certain race?

I would go for gold on this one.

wish you the best of luck.

norcal77
10-18-2011, 12:19 AM
That blows man, sucks you got treated that way.

roushstage2
10-18-2011, 12:20 AM
didn't you say your a certain race?
Yeah, bring race into a situation that had nothing to do with it. :facepalm: :rolleyes:

redcliff
10-18-2011, 1:04 AM
It's too bad that it's your friend's company. If you were willing to post it's name, I'd personally boycott all of its products forever, and make sure that my company did the same.

FYI, CA allows "employment at will" which basically means that unless you have an employment contract that says otherwise, they can let you go for whatever reason they like or no reason at all. I doubt that you would have a valid legal claim against them even if you wanted to pursue it.

Keep your chin up, you'll find a better job at a better company.

Our company attorney was fond of saying "you can terminate someone for no reason or a good reason, but not a bad reason".

I'd consider talking to an attorney specializing in labor law; perhaps you were terminated BECAUSE you have firearms; it was obviously a negative to management in continuing your employment in light of their actions? It's cheaper for companies to settle even mostly baseless wrongful termination claims for under $10k than to litigate them.

RandyD
10-18-2011, 5:46 AM
FYI, CA allows "employment at will" which basically means that unless you have an employment contract that says otherwise, they can let you go for whatever reason they like or no reason at all. I doubt that you would have a valid legal claim against them even if you wanted to pursue it.

The above quote is partially true. California law, in employment situations, also allows for the creation of an implied contract. Generally, if you have had at least seven years of employment with good evaluations, an implied contract exists that you will not be terminated unless there is good cause. The more years worked, plus the higher quality and quantity of your evaluations solidifies the implied contract. This may be a means to recover the lost wages that you will incur during your period of unemployment.

Sorry to hear about the loss of your job. One post above recommended not communicating with anyone from work unless they contact you first. I believe that is good advice. Don't give them any cause to file a Work Place Harassment Restraining Order against you. Anything that you say to anyone can be used as a basis to support the application of a restraining order. That restraining order also requires the restrained person to surrender or sell their firearms within a short period of time.

You referred to the founder of the company as a friend. When he learns that you have been fired, and he does not correct the matter, he is not a friend by any definition.

mlevans66
10-18-2011, 5:59 AM
So sorry to hear this. :(

Zartan
10-18-2011, 6:36 AM
Hey neighbor, that's pretty frikkin' weak. Cool off for a bit, take a small break and let it go. I don't think you'd really want to be tied up in months of litigation and bs with this company would you?

Curtis
10-18-2011, 6:43 AM
I'm very sorry to hear that you were terminated. I have a firm believer that a person's action and a company's action during such times reflect who they are at the core.

Although at will employment allows me to terminate someone for any reason, making statements such as the ones you wrote about could get a company in trouble. But only a lawyer can tell you that for sure.

As for watching you as you pack things up, that is normal. I have done it myself. In some cases you aren't even allowed to pack things up. Everything is in a box when you're give notice. I have seen people try to delete hard drives or trash things on their desk.

Calling the police seems over the line.

I hope you land on your feet. Good luck.

Hopalong
10-18-2011, 7:01 AM
The lesson here is, don't mix business with pleasure.

It's unfortunate what happened

But one needs to keep their private life, private.

And you can't blame the authorities either.

Obviously your employer over reacted, embellished, and dramatized the situation.

sonnyt650
10-18-2011, 7:30 AM
Yeah that Cupertino/Sunnyvale incident at the quarry really was out-of-the-blue from what we know about the killer, no prior suggestions of the upcoming rampage at all. The hair salon incident was further south where the husband of one of the employees murdered eight people; my guess is it has nothing to do with your treatment. Paranoia infects the weakest minds the strongest, so unfortunately you had somebody in a position of power that had a weak mind. On the plus side that operations manager has to now explain his paranoia to your friend, should be good results. If nothing happens to him, I'd be surprised if the company doesn't lose other employees who quit because of your treatment.

As for your termination: I don't think that it's a fear of firearms issue because that didn't come into the picture until you had finished off the paperwork. I think as you state odds are it's because management perceived you didn't cave in to their demands. My sister early in her career was let go because she objected to using deceptive practices to get competitive pricing info, so I'm guessing some shady demands came up for you too.

r3dn3ck
10-18-2011, 7:35 AM
it's never been the hunter/shooter types I've been concerned about. It's the total melvin's that never go shooting or hunting and have all that rage built up inside them that are the ones to worry about. enthusiasts don't usually resort to using the thing they love most to cause problems for those they hate most at the moment. Loses the ability to love those things more.

Your former company is a bunch of cowards and *****s and they don't deserve you. What do you do (PM is fine)? I am looking for a few extremely technical web operations types right now.

bruce_ventura
10-18-2011, 7:55 AM
you should so give freely in an anonymous letter of insider secrets to their competitor for the way they treated you. run them into the ground.

This is bad advice. It's illegal. Even if you didn't get caught, this type of action would keep you stuck in the past, instead of devoting our efforts to moving forward.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

coyotebait
10-18-2011, 8:22 AM
It sucks to lose a job this way, especially in this economy. Put it behind you and move on.

robcoe
10-18-2011, 8:29 AM
All I can say is that sucks, I am currently dealing with an operations manager who sounds a whole lot like your boss(except 100% of people, even the president of the company, don't like him, not just 90%), and I know how much it sucks.

Put it behind you, and if they call asking you to come back tell them where to stick it(or demand an outrageous hourly rate)

Vanguard
10-18-2011, 8:49 AM
File for unemployment immediately. Forget about the past and move forward. Actively seek another job. Never show your face at your old company again, for any reason, since it could prompt them to file a restraining order against you and cause you to lose your firearms.

bsg
10-18-2011, 9:00 AM
The above quote is partially true. California law, in employment situations, also allows for the creation of an implied contract. Generally, if you have had at least seven years of employment with good evaluations, an implied contract exists that you will not be terminated unless there is good cause. The more years worked, plus the higher quality and quantity of your evaluations solidifies the implied contract. This may be a means to recover the lost wages that you will incur during your period of unemployment.

Sorry to hear about the loss of your job. One post above recommended not communicating with anyone from work unless they contact you first. I believe that is good advice. Don't give them any cause to file a Work Place Harassment Restraining Order against you. Anything that you say to anyone can be used as a basis to support the application of a restraining order. That restraining order also requires the restrained person to surrender or sell their firearms within a short period of time.

You referred to the founder of the company as a friend. When he learns that you have been fired, and he does not correct the matter, he is not a friend by any definition.


top notch advise.

i would not discuss anything related to this job or the termination with "friends" from this job that might contact you.

LDSGJimbo
10-18-2011, 9:07 AM
This is the problem with calif, the idea of a armed citizen scares people wet

Sent from my motorola with tapatalk.

kurac
10-18-2011, 9:28 AM
well, this post officially made me sick to my stomach.

I wish I had some good advise for you but I don't. The best thing I can say is that you were fired through no fault of your own and there was really nothing you could do to prevent it since there was no warning or sit down before the employer decided to terminate your relationship. You shouldn't have to change who you are in order to hold down a job.

yellowfin
10-18-2011, 9:33 AM
I wonder how many people are turned away from being hired in much the same way.

coyotebait
10-18-2011, 9:35 AM
OP, I know the police were called because you're a "gun nut," what was the reason for the termination? Just curious.

bob7122
10-18-2011, 9:42 AM
sorry to hear that, hope you can get a better job that will make you happier.

ubet
10-18-2011, 10:03 AM
Hate to say it, but I dont find it a "coincident" that your "friend" was in Europe when this happened. He knew it was coming I bet and skipped town, thats no friend at all.

Good Luck on finding another job.

crazy
10-18-2011, 11:05 AM
I'm sorry to hear about your job loss and the way it was handled. It's amazing the number of morons in management. There has been some very good advice given. Not the giving up trade secrets part.:rolleyes:

I'm not a lawyer but I play one on TV. The advice about not contacting the company or anyone that works there is pretty smart. I think i would contact a real lawyer, as opposed to a TV lawyer, and have him draft a letter to the company that states your intentions to seek damages if they slander or libel you in ANY way that prevents you from getting a job somewhere else.

As far as suing them for your termination, I don't know if that would go anywhere. Maybe they will just settle. The settlement should include a clause about them keeping their mouth shut. Even though you did nothing wrong.

P.S. Tracy PD is incompetent and worthless, unless they are giving you a ticket. When I gave them information about criminals that were breaking into houses, including mine, they did nothing. It's another story but after that, I realized that they are not there to do anything but generate revenue for the city.

ubet
10-18-2011, 11:56 AM
Op, can you go to work for their competition, should make you valuable to any of their competitors if its a real competitive industry.

stitchnicklas
10-18-2011, 12:43 PM
me,
i would take it to a whole new level and use the calguns method...


SUE EVERY MUTHER EFFER IN THE ROOM

harassment,mental duress,emotional pain,wrongful rights infringement..etc...

chim-chim7
10-18-2011, 5:29 PM
Since no one here knows you, we don't know what kind of person you are around your job. I for one was not there so I can't argue either side. If you want to persue this as a discriminatory case I would talk to a lawyer and no longer talk about anythine here. This is why I do not let others know at my job that I am into guns as a hobby. It really changes the way people view your personallity. As most people don't understand why you would need more than one gun if any at all. Its a red flag for trouble in most cases.

Diabolus
10-18-2011, 7:24 PM
They always have you sign paperwork when you're in shock. Do you remember what you signed?