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connorr93
10-17-2011, 1:43 PM
Ok so a few months ago I was just on the verge of building an AR15 when I decided I wanted to go more along the lines of an AK purely for money reasons. I know next to nothing about AK's and need a little help deciding on one. I am mainly looking for accuracy and plan to try to go for more of the "tactical" setup down the road (collapsable stock, forward grip, maybe some rails, ect.) I have about 600 to dump at the moment so where do I start?

beast556
10-17-2011, 1:46 PM
Save a few more pennys and spring for the Arsenal SGL-21.

NorCalK9.com
10-17-2011, 1:47 PM
Get an ak74! It's way more accurate than 762x39 and close to the 556 and costs less than both for ammo!
Bulgarian ak74 $500 +or-
I have many ak47's and 74's and by far the ak74 is my favorite!!!!

connorr93
10-17-2011, 1:50 PM
Get an ak74! It's way more accurate than 762x39 and close to the 556 and costs less than both for ammo!
Bulgarian ak74 $500 +or-
I have many ak47's and 74's and by far the ak74 is my favorite!!!!

I have looked into the 74's a little but Im set on the 762x39.

Javi
10-17-2011, 1:51 PM
So for $600:

*Look into a Century Arms WASR as it goes for $500 and $400-something on sale at Turners

*Go to Atlantic Firearms and look at the Interarms IAC AK-47. They give discounts to calgunners so I think it would bring the price down to lower $600 before shipping.

I don't know where your from. If you don't have a Turners and want the Century Arms, get it from Henderson Defense(out of stock, for now):

http://www.hendersondefense.com/store/pc/Century-Certified-AK47-with-bayonet-and-pouch-50p10.htm

connorr93
10-17-2011, 1:53 PM
Save a few more pennys and spring for the Arsenal SGL-21.

Anyone have any opinions on this gun. I have heard its kinda the gold standard for AK's

SacTown
10-17-2011, 1:53 PM
My vote would be the Arsenal SGL-21 if you can spend the extra $. It's the way to go for AKs in my opinion. Very solid and accurate for an AK..

chead
10-17-2011, 1:56 PM
Anyone have any opinions on this gun. I have heard its kinda the gold standard for AK's

I have the 31 and it's great. Love it.

NorCalK9.com
10-17-2011, 2:03 PM
I have looked into the 74's a little but Im set on the 762x39.

Well if you want accuracy 545x39 is the best your gonna get between the 2. But the ak47's are fun. Heck if your local I'll sell you one of mine. lol

NorCalK9.com
10-17-2011, 2:05 PM
Anyone have any opinions on this gun. I have heard its kinda the gold standard for AK's

There aint nothing gold about a sgl! its a saiga thats been converted.
I have a wasr and none of the sgl guys have accepted to put their rifle against my wasr. I can build a ak and put the exact furniture I want and get ammo for the price of those saiga conversions!

choprzrul
10-17-2011, 2:09 PM
BWK-92 in .223 ?

http://amendment2guns.com/images/DSC06433.JPG

chead
10-17-2011, 2:10 PM
There aint nothing gold about a sgl! its a saiga thats been converted.
I have a wasr and none of the sgl guys have accepted to put their rifle against my wasr. I can build a ak and put the exact furniture I want and get ammo for the price of those saiga conversions!

They them against yours in what way? Hopefully they'll have similar ballistics otherwise something is very wrong. What you get for the money in an Arsenal (or other Saiga) is a matching-numbers new Russian rifle. That's it. There's nothing magical about them other than a generally high standard of quality from the factory and from Arsenal.

ZX-10R
10-17-2011, 2:10 PM
Anyone have any opinions on this gun. I have heard its kinda the gold standard for AK's

If you think or heard that, that is the gold standard...Then you are FAR from the truth.

Do some research...That is far from a gold standard and a rifle I would not buy for the price. So many more AK patters come ahead of that if you can find them.

Good luck...Go do some research and look at threads regarding AKs...

Psst go to an AK forum of your choice for research...You will get Saiga and Arsenal to death here.

notme92069
10-17-2011, 2:14 PM
If you are near San Diego I would suggest checking out Parallax Tactical and Direct Actions Solutions. Parallax just moved and won't have their weapons out for sale for another couple of weeks at least but both shops sell an assortment of AKs. Both have great service and both will let you lay away if that helps.

Javi
10-17-2011, 2:15 PM
I have a wasr and none of the sgl guys have accepted to put their rifle against my wasr. I can build a ak and put the exact furniture I want and get ammo for the price of those saiga conversions!

Hey, that's "ZX-10R"'s challenge! :D

NorCalK9.com
10-17-2011, 2:23 PM
Hey, that's "ZX-10R"'s challenge! :D

I've been Putting 500 rounds up since I hit 3000 rounds in my wast. I'm now over 10,000 thru it I shoot about 400-600 rounds a week thru that and my home built bulgarian ak74. I think his offer was for lunch or something lol but I dont even think the sgl guys took him up on it either.

Cuerno_de_Chivo
10-17-2011, 2:28 PM
Well if you want to go tactical you should get an Arsenal since it is more modernized anyways. If you want an old school look, get a WASR but it's best to look at it yourself because they have a bad rep. I plan on going back to polymer on my Arsenal once i get a WASR but ultimately its your choice. An AK is an AK.

Javi
10-17-2011, 2:28 PM
Man, you get to shoot a lot! I have 3 firearms(first bought was in November 2010) and I haven't gotten past 2,000 rounds yet :) Hell, I probably would have bought an AK-74 from you had I known you wanted to sell one! Although I'm no where near Oakley.

Javi
10-17-2011, 2:29 PM
Well if you want to go tactical you should get an Arsenal since it is more modernized anyways. If you want an old school look, get a WASR but it's best to look at it yourself because they have a bad rep. I plan on going back to polymer on my Arsenal once i get a WASR but ultimately its your choice. An AK is an AK.

He can also go WASR and just buy poly furniture for it too, though. Hell, Kvar sells the same furniture that's already on Arsenals, right?

NorCalK9.com
10-17-2011, 2:33 PM
Man, you get to shoot a lot! I have 3 firearms(first bought was in November 2010) and I haven't gotten past 2,000 rounds yet :) Hell, I probably would have bought an AK-74 from you had I known you wanted to sell one! Although I'm no where near Oakley.

No way I would sell a 47 but not a 74 lol

Cuerno_de_Chivo
10-17-2011, 2:33 PM
He can also go WASR and just buy poly furniture for it too, though. Hell, Kvar sells the same furniture that's already on Arsenals, right?

Yea they do, but the WASRs don't have the 90 degree gas block, the side mount, and the AK74 style muzzle break like Arsenals. Arsenals are pretty much clones of the AK-103 so it makes sense to start from there if your trying to go more "modernized".

NorCalK9.com
10-17-2011, 2:37 PM
Heres a pic of the wasr Ive left it outside in the rain, havent cleaned it in 5000 rounds ive thrown it in mud spayed water on it poured motor oil to lubricate it, and only a little rust. Im trying to see how much it'll take. I respect the heck out of this great shooting cai wasr!!!~!

NorCalK9.com
10-17-2011, 2:38 PM
Yea they do, but the WASRs don't have the 90 degree gas block, the side mount, and the AK74 style muzzle break like Arsenals. Arsenals are pretty much clones of the AK-103 so it makes sense to start from there if your trying to go more "modernized".

Wasr's do have the side mount buddy check out pic #3 i put up

21SF
10-17-2011, 2:41 PM
There aint nothing gold about a sgl! its a saiga thats been converted.
I have a wasr and none of the sgl guys have accepted to put their rifle against my wasr. I can build a ak and put the exact furniture I want and get ammo for the price of those saiga conversions!

Ill take the challenge! bring it on! lol

NorCalK9.com
10-17-2011, 2:45 PM
Ill take the challenge! bring it on! lol

OK cool I shoot for free at linden shooting range and on fridays theyre closed and only me and who I bring is allowed to shoot there. If you'd like to come out this friday at 11am we can do it. I'll cover your ammo and you cover mine bring atleast 1500 rounds and ill bring the same if either of our guns jam its over if neither jams we are shooting 200 yards iron sights standing whoever does better gets 500 rounds and ill buy lunch! either way
side note no breaks no letting the rifle cool off bring atleast 5 mags and I'll have my nephew and broinlaw reload us Ive already burned up the original handguards so now i have kvar hopefully they dont melt.

SJgunguy24
10-17-2011, 2:50 PM
Anyone have any opinions on this gun. I have heard its kinda the gold standard for AK's

What an Arsenal is, is a Saiga conversion done in Las Vegas using Bulgarian Military parts. They are quality guns but many are turned off by their holier then thou and anti CA attitude.
One is an Arsenal and the other is a conversion built in CA.

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/SJgunguy24/SaigavsArsenal2.jpg


Yea they do, but the WASRs don't have the 90 degree gas block, the side mount, and the AK74 style muzzle break like Arsenals. Arsenals are pretty much clones of the AK-103 so it makes sense to start from there if your trying to go more "modernized".

The 100 series have plastic folding stocks and a completely different gas block front sight base.
The 2 on the right are 100 series clones I built using K var barrels and the proper folding stocks.
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/SJgunguy24/afew.jpg

21SF
10-17-2011, 2:56 PM
OK cool I shoot for free at linden shooting range and on fridays theyre closed and only me and who I bring is allowed to shoot there. If you'd like to come out this friday at 11am we can do it. I'll cover your ammo and you cover mine bring atleast 1500 rounds and ill bring the same if either of our guns jam its over if neither jams we are shooting 200 yards iron sights standing whoever does better gets 500 rounds and ill buy lunch! either way
side note no breaks no letting the rifle cool off bring atleast 5 mags and I'll have my nephew and broinlaw reload us Ive already burned up the original handguards so now i have kvar hopefully they dont melt.

I didnt know it was going to cost me money!! lol

NorCalK9.com
10-17-2011, 3:00 PM
I didnt know it was going to cost me money!! lol

Its not you'll get in free!

Cuerno_de_Chivo
10-17-2011, 3:15 PM
The 100 series have plastic folding stocks and a completely different gas block front sight base.
The 2 on the right are 100 series clones I built using K var barrels and the proper folding stocks.
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/SJgunguy24/afew.jpg

Those don't look like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK_103

The arsenals strike a more similar resemblance.

NorCalK9.com
10-17-2011, 3:19 PM
What an Arsenal is, is a Saiga conversion done in Las Vegas using Bulgarian Military parts. They are quality guns but many are turned off by their holier then thou and anti CA attitude.
One is an Arsenal and the other is a conversion built in CA.

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/SJgunguy24/SaigavsArsenal2.jpg




The 100 series have plastic folding stocks and a completely different gas block front sight base.
The 2 on the right are 100 series clones I built using K var barrels and the proper folding stocks.
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/SJgunguy24/afew.jpg
Those are BAD@SS sjgunguy. You should come down to nikos sometime while we're building. You and niko's stuff always comes out looking super awesome!!!!

SJgunguy24
10-17-2011, 3:20 PM
Those don't look like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK_103

The arsenals strike a more similar resemblance.

My bad, these are 104's and 105's. The SBR variants.

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/SJgunguy24/100-1.jpg

zfields
10-17-2011, 3:54 PM
What an Arsenal is, is a Saiga conversion done in Las Vegas using Bulgarian Military parts. They are quality guns but many are turned off by their holier then thou and anti CA attitude.
One is an Arsenal and the other is a conversion built in CA.



Enough said right there.

tacticalcity
10-17-2011, 4:02 PM
Get the one that's an AR15...I kid.

NorCalK9.com
10-17-2011, 4:08 PM
Get the one that's an AR15...I kid.

Lmao you AR guys kill me lol. When they make a di ar that can do what my ak's can im burning all my ak's but that'll never happen.

ZX-10R
10-17-2011, 5:47 PM
Hey, that's "ZX-10R"'s challenge! :D

Damn you NorCal! HAHA:D Bro I am up there this weekend but I got tile to install in my house. If you are ever down in SLOSA area, hit me up you got room and food if you want. Like wise Javi same to you....I just want someone to shoot AK patterns with me...I see a lot of ARs in SLOSA. Make it an AK shoot off...I know it is a stretch for a lot of the AK pattern shooters here but it would be cool to do something impromptu. I will have the Polish UF on the 25th...That is 4 different styles of AK patterns to shoot...PSL, Tactical WASR, stock WASR, and UF.

ZX-10R
10-17-2011, 5:49 PM
I've been Putting 500 rounds up since I hit 3000 rounds in my wast. I'm now over 10,000 thru it I shoot about 400-600 rounds a week thru that and my home built bulgarian ak74. I think his offer was for lunch or something lol but I dont even think the sgl guys took him up on it either.

Heck I will put people up in my friends place to have an AK shoot off. When I go shooting it is any combo of 400+ rounds of everything...Extreme is 600...You got me beat NorCal...After a while I get sloppy at the range and that is not good.

NorCalK9.com
10-17-2011, 5:53 PM
Damn you NorCal! HAHA:D Bro I am up there this weekend but I got tile to install in my house. If you are ever down in SLOSA area, hit me up you got room and food if you want. Like wise Javi same to you....I just want someone to shoot AK patterns with me...I see a lot of ARs in SLOSA. Make it an AK shoot off...I know it is a stretch for a lot of the AK pattern shooters here but it would be cool to do something impromptu. I will have the Polish UF on the 25th...That is 4 different styles of AK patterns to shoot...PSL, Tactical WASR, stock WASR, and UF.

What is slosa? And where is it? Lol
I can bring my wasr , my tactical bulgarianak74, my amd65, and im building a bulgarian ak74 tomorrow that is gonna be an underfolder. I just ordered 5 spam cans of 545x39 it'll be here weds. And i'm due to get the other 4k rounds of 762x39 any day now. I have never shot so much in my life until I got into ak's. I tend to baby my AR's I use to have. Lol

NorCalK9.com
10-17-2011, 5:57 PM
Heck I will put people up in my friends place to have an AK shoot off. When I go shooting it is any combo of 400+ rounds of everything...Extreme is 600...You got me beat NorCal...After a while I get sloppy at the range and that is not good.

I dont do precision shooting just body shots at 200 yards.
Or pumpkins in my backyard, or juice co.tainers filled with water, or squirrels with my ak74 in my back property. I cant go a day here in the country without shooting something lol

Javi
10-17-2011, 6:21 PM
Damn, 5 spam cans...I was looking at some crates/spam cans at a local shop. Hope they put them back on sale in a few weeks, they nearly (if not) matched Aim Surplus/J&G sales. Does a crate have 2 spam cans in it? I think that's as much as I'd be comfortable paying for at the moment.

NorCalK9.com
10-17-2011, 6:28 PM
Damn, 5 spam cans...I was looking at some crates/spam cans at a local shop. Hope they put them back on sale in a few weeks, they nearly (if not) matched Aim Surplus/J&G sales. Does a crate have 2 spam cans in it? I think that's as much as I'd be comfortable paying for at the moment.

Yeah a crate is 2cans

SJgunguy24
10-17-2011, 7:05 PM
Yeah a crate is 2cans

A few years back I bought 9 cases of russian surplus for 1k, they were 1320 rounds a case. Took me about a year to run through all of that.

hefedehefe
10-17-2011, 7:09 PM
Saiga 12 :P

beep_gun
10-17-2011, 7:44 PM
Saiga 12 :P

What the hell, buy a Saiga shotgun and AK SGL rifle! Got mine from hendersondefense.com. They take care of us CA guys. Just got the AK today and am thinking about getting wood furniture (us made).
Easy to convert the S12 if you have a good drill bit and buy the conversion parts from Carolina Shooting supply. I'd advise get a good step bit for the dril and carefully drill out the rivets.

NorCalK9.com
10-17-2011, 7:48 PM
Nah sgl's are overpriced! Stay away from them bud.

21SF
10-18-2011, 9:05 AM
When i can afford to blast throuhg 1k rnds in a sitting ill def do it with my saiga or AR.

Nothing on the line just a friendly see what they can do.

NorCalK9.com
10-18-2011, 9:37 AM
When i can afford to blast throuhg 1k rnds in a sitting ill def do it with my saiga or AR.

Nothing on the line just a friendly see what they can do.

I totally understand bud. Freaking ammo is expensive! Thats why I keep looking for deals everywhere on ammo. But if you ever wanna come shooting with me on a friday youre more than welcome too.

zfields
10-18-2011, 9:39 AM
I totally understand bud. Freaking ammo is expensive! Thats why I keep looking for deals everywhere on ammo. But if you ever wanna come shooting with me on a friday youre more than welcome too.

this is why i want to built a 74. even at 4.29/20 762 is getting expensive to have a fun range day.



Also gives me a good reason to buy a new rifle.

21SF
10-18-2011, 9:41 AM
I totally understand bud. Freaking ammo is expensive! Thats why I keep looking for deals everywhere on ammo. But if you ever wanna come shooting with me on a friday youre more than welcome too.

For sure, next time I take a friday off.

NorCalK9.com
10-18-2011, 10:15 AM
this is why i want to built a 74. even at 4.29/20 762 is getting expensive to have a fun range day.



Also gives me a good reason to buy a new rifle.

When I built my first ak74 it was suppose to be the rifle I was gonna just mess with once in a while. But it turned into my most favorite rifle ever! At 330 today I start working on my next ak74.

zfields
10-18-2011, 10:24 AM
When I built my first ak74 it was suppose to be the rifle I was gonna just mess with once in a while. But it turned into my most favorite rifle ever! At 330 today I start working on my next ak74.

They just dont seem to have build parties here at all. But Im a saiga guy anyways, Just need the funds to do it. Already have all the parts planned out and priced : )

NorCalK9.com
10-18-2011, 10:31 AM
They just dont seem to have build parties here at all. But Im a saiga guy anyways, Just need the funds to do it. Already have all the parts planned out and priced : )

Theyre you go a saiga in 545x39 and convert it!

zfields
10-18-2011, 10:32 AM
Theyre you go a saiga in 545x39 and convert it!

And SBR'd

21SF
10-18-2011, 10:36 AM
i think a plum 47 or 74 is in my near future! I just love that almost black but not plum!

NorCalK9.com
10-18-2011, 10:43 AM
i think a plum 47 or 74 is in my near future! I just love that almost black but not plum!

I'd trade all my 47's except the wasr 10 for ak74's. The 74 is the funnest rifle ever! Only thing i'd want more is the new ak74 type rifle russia is currently usi.g.

Javi
10-18-2011, 11:44 AM
I'd trade all my 47's except the wasr 10 for ak74's. The 74 is the funnest rifle ever! Only thing i'd want more is the new ak74 type rifle russia is currently usi.g.

Wow, didn't know you liked the 74 THAT much. I have higher hopes for mine when it comes to CA, then!

NorCalK9.com
10-18-2011, 11:54 AM
The ak74 is close to as accurate as an AR byt much more reliable and the ammo is cheap and plentiful. Only reason im keeping the wasr is because of all the negative ive done with it. 10k+ rounds left it in the rain all nite ive thrown it Ive caught it on fire and burned up the original handguards, I havnt cleaned it since 5k rounds and its still going alls I do is pour motor oil on and in it im gonna keep at it until it rusts shut all the way. And it still hits chest shots all day @ 200 yards with iron sights.

Cuerno_de_Chivo
10-18-2011, 11:59 AM
That's EXACTLY what AKs are all about ^^^. I hate when people bash on the Kalash saying it's not accurate because it can't pull of grouping sizes like their bench resting ARs. AKs where never meant to be target rifles. Hitting chest shots at 200+ is what AKs where meant for! Not no bench resting shooting gun!

NorCalK9.com
10-18-2011, 12:03 PM
Lol exactly!

13204u
10-18-2011, 12:17 PM
Which ak? The one that functions and is within your planned budget. The rest is really personal preference and has little bearing on performance.

ZachT951
10-18-2011, 2:46 PM
buy a saiga and convert it arsenals are over priced and saiga's are russian not bulgarian, saigas 7.62x39 or 5.45x39 are both about 375$ out the door and the conversion kit for them are about 150$ shipped and you have the quality of russian at the same cost as a Century arms and less cost than an arsenal, i had a Century and sold it, it was ok compared to a saiga, its easy to do and only takes a few hours if you have never done it and this is the link i used to see how it was done i did my second rifle without watching it cuz its so easy to remember and 5.45 is cheaper ammo to buy but hey i have 3 saigas 7.62x39 5.45x39 and 12 gauge all converted


---->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HOedStH-t4&NR=1

esartori
10-18-2011, 8:07 PM
A lot of people don't seem to like the Arsenals. Aren't the SGLs one of the better rifles out of the box if you aren't building it yourself? I have heard great things but have not handled one myself.

Mamluke
10-18-2011, 9:18 PM
I have looked into the 74's a little but Im set on the 762x39.

Way to go, I love my Polish AKMS underfolder, you can get one from Henderson defense for a mere $499!

http://www.hendersondefense.com/store/pc/Polish-AKMS-Underfolder-AK47-50p271.htm

http://www.hendersondefense.com/store/pc/catalog/polishunderfoldercentury_1706_general.jpg

Just fired a few shots today at the Sequoia NF:

wGUfszIFBbE

And, oh boy, shooting at water puddles with 7.62 is just a ton of fun!

YyRaUUhekMw

For your first AK, don't spend a lot, just go middle of the line & see how you like the AK platform before you move on to the pricy stuff!

My 2 cents... :popcorn: ...

SJgunguy24
10-18-2011, 9:50 PM
What an Arsenal is, is a Saiga conversion done in Las Vegas using Bulgarian Military parts. They are quality guns but many are turned off by their holier then thou and anti CA attitude.
One is an Arsenal and the other is a conversion built in CA.

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/SJgunguy24/SaigavsArsenal2.jpg

buy a saiga and convert it arsenals are over priced and saiga's are russian not bulgarian, saigas 7.62x39 or 5.45x39 are both about 375$ out the door and the conversion kit for them are about 150$ shipped and you have the quality of russian at the same cost as a Century arms and less cost than an arsenal, i had a Century and sold it, it was ok compared to a saiga, its easy to do and only takes a few hours if you have never done it and this is the link i used to see how it was done i did my second rifle without watching it cuz its so easy to remember and 5.45 is cheaper ammo to buy but hey i have 3 saigas 7.62x39 5.45x39 and 12 gauge all converted


---->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HOedStH-t4&NR=1

Correct, Saiga's are Russian made, but Arsenal uses Bulgarian military parts in their conversions. The pic above your quote is 2 guns, one is a "factory" Arsenal SGL something(I don't really care), and the other is a gun I converted.

A lot of people don't seem to like the Arsenals. Aren't the SGLs one of the better rifles out of the box if you aren't building it yourself? I have heard great things but have not handled one myself.

It's more or less the big middle finger Arsenal gave to Ca for all those years.

NorCalK9.com
10-18-2011, 10:03 PM
Very nice bud but you'll never get the accuracy you'll get out of the 74, and the 74 wont have the brick shattering power of the 47. I prefer having both but if I could only have 1 it'd be a ak74!
Way to go, I love my Polish AKMS underfolder, you can get one from Henderson defense for a mere $499!

http://www.hendersondefense.com/store/pc/Polish-AKMS-Underfolder-AK47-50p271.htm

http://www.hendersondefense.com/store/pc/catalog/polishunderfoldercentury_1706_general.jpg

Just fired a few shots today at the Sequoia NF:

wGUfszIFBbE

And, oh boy, shooting at water puddles with 7.62 is just a ton of fun!

YyRaUUhekMw

For your first AK, don't spend a lot, just go middle of the line & see how you like the AK platform before you move on to the pricy stuff!

My 2 cents... :popcorn: ...

Inquirer
10-18-2011, 10:19 PM
Jump on this. (http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/rifles/ak-pattern-rifles/p/saiga-7-62x39-sporter-rifle%2C-tgi-import%2C-new-/cPath/209_214/products_id/5888)

Best deal around right now.

$300 for your Saiga, $25 DROS and whatever handling, plus $125 for a conversion kit (http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-449/TAPCO-SAIGA-RIFLE-CONVERSION/Detail).

/Thread

NorCalK9.com
10-18-2011, 10:29 PM
Thats an alrite deal if you do.t want an original. I'll end up buying some more saigas eventually.

zfields
10-18-2011, 10:35 PM
Thats an alrite deal if you do.t want an original. I'll end up buying some more saigas eventually.

Its a russian AK. Made in one of the original russian plants. Cant get much more original.

NorCalK9.com
10-18-2011, 10:41 PM
Its a sporter with sporter parts. I can breed a german shepherd with a german pointer but its not the real deal. Theyre built for commercial use gas tube is a prime example. Now I love saigas dont get me wrong but if you put a bulgarian circle10 ak74 and a saiga 545x39 im picking the bulgy everytime.

Mamluke
10-18-2011, 10:43 PM
Very nice bud but you'll never get the accuracy you'll get out of the 74, and the 74 wont have the brick shattering power of the 47. I prefer having both but if I could only have 1 it'd be a ak74!

Which round will you trust to stop a grizzly bear dead in its tracks without you taking the time to aim for a head shot?

Which round will stop a maniac overdosed on cocaine or meth charging with all his force into your home, again, without taking what precious little time you have to aim for a head shot?
When I decide to get a gun for play only, I'll get a Polish Tantal in 5.45.

On the forest & desert trails, I'll be straddling my 7.62 AK!

My 2 cents again, peace ... :chris:

Cuerno_de_Chivo
10-18-2011, 10:43 PM
Way to go, I love my Polish AKMS underfolder, you can get one from Henderson defense for a mere $499!

http://www.hendersondefense.com/store/pc/Polish-AKMS-Underfolder-AK47-50p271.htm

http://www.hendersondefense.com/store/pc/catalog/polishunderfoldercentury_1706_general.jpg

Just fired a few shots today at the Sequoia NF:



And, oh boy, shooting at water puddles with 7.62 is just a ton of fun!


For your first AK, don't spend a lot, just go middle of the line & see how you like the AK platform before you move on to the pricy stuff!

My 2 cents... :popcorn: ...

Damn thats a nice AK! And at a cheap price! I've been looking to get a WASR, i might pick this up instead!

tacticalcity
10-18-2011, 10:45 PM
They just dont seem to have build parties here at all. But Im a saiga guy anyways, Just need the funds to do it. Already have all the parts planned out and priced : )

I guess since it is so easy to buy them in Texas the don't feel the need? They used to have them every other week here. So I bought a lower and a kit and got all set to do it just for the experience of it...then I couldn't find a build part to save my life for almost a year! Before I could build my own a buddy asked to buy the kit off me, sold the lower online, and that was that. So while I've one somebody else built, I've never built my own. Was kinda bummed by that. It sounded like a lot of fun. A lot of work...but a lot of fun.

They never seem to do HK build parties here. Now that I would LOVE to do. I want to do an Mp5 pistol build (no modern SBRs here in CA). But I am told building them from a flat is a bear to get right.

zfields
10-18-2011, 10:48 PM
Which round will you trust to stop a grizzly bear dead in its tracks without you taking the time to aim for a head shot?

Which round will stop a maniac overdosed on cocaine or meth charging with all his force into your home, again, without taking what precious little time you have to aim for a head shot?
When I decide to get a gun for play only, I'll get a Polish Tantal in 5.45.

On the forest & desert trails, I'll be straddling my 7.62 AK!

My 2 cents again, peace ... :chris:

Read up on the balistics, they switched to the 5.45 hollow cavity (not tip) for a reason : )

zfields
10-18-2011, 10:49 PM
I guess since it is so easy to buy them in Texas the don't feel the need? They used to have them every other week here. So I bought a lower and a kit and got all set to do it just for the experience of it...then I couldn't find a build part to save my life for almost a year! Before I could build my own a buddy asked to buy the kit off me, sold the lower online, and that was that. So while I've one somebody else built, I've never built my own. Was kinda bummed by that. It sounded like a lot of fun. A lot of work...but a lot of fun.

They never seem to do HK build parties here. Now that I would LOVE to do. I want to do an Mp5 pistol build (no modern SBRs here in CA). But I am told building them from a flat is a bear to get right.

You know since moving here, I really havent seen many AK's in shops. More SCARs and those goofy remington camo'd ARs then I could believe though.


I believe theres a strong thread going in home gunsmithing about an uncomping HK party.

NorCalK9.com
10-18-2011, 11:04 PM
Which round will you trust to stop a grizzly bear dead in its tracks without you taking the time to aim for a head shot?

Which round will stop a maniac overdosed on cocaine or meth charging with all his force into your home, again, without taking what precious little time you have to aim for a head shot?
When I decide to get a gun for play only, I'll get a Polish Tantal in 5.45.

On the forest & desert trails, I'll be straddling my 7.62 AK!

My 2 cents again, peace ... :chris:

Roflmfao dude a 762x39 is NOT more deadly than a 545x39 and I dont think youve done alot of shooting on the 2 calibers buy if 762 was more effective russian military would still be running it. Have you ever shot something besides paper with a 762x39? Its a round with alot of punch but puts a clean hole thru its target. I love ak47's with all my heart but my brain which I use every now and again tells me which of the 2 is better and the better round for stopping people is 545, and if I need a gun for a bear it'll be minimum 308 out of my saiga!

NorCalK9.com
10-18-2011, 11:07 PM
Read up on the balistics, they switched to the 5.45 hollow cavity (not tip) for a reason : )

This!!!!

Cuerno_de_Chivo
10-18-2011, 11:14 PM
Read up on the balistics, they switched to the 5.45 hollow cavity (not tip) for a reason : )

Yea it's more effective on humans but the results will probably be different on bears.

NorCalK9.com
10-18-2011, 11:17 PM
Yea it's more effective on humans but the results will probably be different on bears.

I doubt that but again you name 1 person who hunts bear with and medium round? Id be aftaid using a 308 if the bear was running at me.

NorCalK9.com
10-18-2011, 11:19 PM
Well heck we better get some laser guns for when the aliens come too lol.

zfields
10-18-2011, 11:20 PM
Yea it's more effective on humans but the results will probably be different on bears.

yea, either one wouldnt be my top pick on bears....maybe some handload SP 762x54Rs


Im a big fan of the 762x39, but there are quite a few advantages with the 545x39.

But my HD rifle is still a 47' with softpoints.

Cuerno_de_Chivo
10-18-2011, 11:20 PM
I doubt that but again you name 1 person who hunts bear with and medium round? Id be aftaid using a 308 if the bear was running at me.
Idk but if what you only have is between a 5.45 and a 7.62x39 and your in a forest where there's bears, the 7.62x39 would be better than the 5.45.

NorCalK9.com
10-18-2011, 11:23 PM
Idk but if what you only have is between a 5.45 and a 7.62x39 and your in a forest where there's bears, the 7.62x39 would be better than the 5.45.

Nah cause I can put 10 rounds on target with a 545 a 47 has more recoil = less follow up shots. I'll still take the 545x39 unless the bear is hiding behind a mortar wall.

zfields
10-18-2011, 11:25 PM
Nah cause I can put 10 rounds on target with a 545 a 47 has more recoil = less follow up shots. I'll still take the 545x39 unless the bear is hiding behind a mortar wall.

Cmon man. The 47 has very very manageable recoil, even comparing to the 5.XX rounds.


Thats taking fanaticism a little to far.

Cuerno_de_Chivo
10-18-2011, 11:26 PM
Nah cause I can put 10 rounds on target with a 545 a 47 has more recoil = less follow up shots. I'll still take the 545x39 unless the bear is hiding behind a mortar wall.

Dude the recoil on the 47 is not even bad. And a bear is a pretty big target I doubt you'd miss.

NorCalK9.com
10-18-2011, 11:30 PM
Have you ever fired a 47 as fast as you can? Either way I dont buy rifles to protect myself against rabid kitten eating bears But if you think the 762x39 is better for you thats awesome! I have 11 ak's most in 762x39 so watever I got em all so im safe from them there kitten eating bears.

Mamluke
10-18-2011, 11:51 PM
Roflmfao dude a 762x39 is NOT more deadly than a 545x39 and I dont think youve done alot of shooting on the 2 calibers buy if 762 was more effective russian military would still be running it. Have you ever shot something besides paper with a 762x39? Its a round with alot of punch but puts a clean hole thru its target. I love ak47's with all my heart but my brain which I use every now and again tells me which of the 2 is better and the better round for stopping people is 545, and if I need a gun for a bear it'll be minimum 308 out of my saiga!

Russian special forces still use that 7.62 caliber quite a bit, & the army got hammered in the first battle of Grozny, Chechnya 1996, many field officers switched to the 7.62 caliber; it proved more effective.

I have not shot the 5.45 caliber & I'm sure its swell, but I think your talking about how the round behaves after penetration, quirking, tumbling & turning causing more lethal tissue damage. 7.62 has more transfer of energy punch once a target is hit

At the risk of hijacking this thread; sorry!

Shrubmaster
10-19-2011, 12:01 AM
Which ak47.... not "how many?".... jus sayin

NorCalK9.com
10-19-2011, 12:02 AM
Well again you think what you want ive shot multiple things with the 2 rounds and on living things 545 makes much more of a mess! 762 punches almost clean. But again I do own many of both so you think what you like and spread fud"i dont even k.ow what fud means lol" but maybe you should get some experience with things you talk about. Fyi dont take what im saying in a bad way or get upset.

FiveSeven
10-19-2011, 12:55 AM
Russian special forces still use that 7.62 caliber quite a bit, & the army got hammered in the first battle of Grozny, Chechnya 1996, many field officers switched to the 7.62 caliber; it proved more effective.

I have not shot the 5.45 caliber & I'm sure its swell, but I think your talking about how the round behaves after penetration, quirking, tumbling & turning causing more lethal tissue damage. 7.62 has more transfer of energy punch once a target is hit

At the risk of hijacking this thread; sorry!

Was not going to post but so much nonsense here I can't resist.

First: Russian special forces use many other calibers that not readily available to regular army. Them using 7.62x39 has nothing to do how effective or not the round is. And no, there's is no such study or common knowledge in Russian army that 7.62x39 is proven more affective. Russians are quite satisfied with 5.45
To add: There are reserve armies as the one that was used in Georgian war in 2008 with great success. Reserve armies can use and do use surplus equipment/hardware and firearms, they are not as uniform with their equipment as Regular army is.

Second: First battle in Grozny was NOT in 1996. No such thing as "of" either.

Third: They had horrible leadership, command, planning and execution problem, It had NOTHING to do with what caliber of cartridge they were using but everything to do with the things mention. Things were done very successfully in the 1999 where they went back to finish the job, yes with the same standard caliber.

Fourth: Field officers don't get to pick or switch as they wish with what weapons to fight with. In any war soldiers sometimes use any firearms they have available to them. In Russian case, 7.62 was/is still available from surplus storage and surplus storage's captured from Chechen or what was left there from S.U days.
Conserving your own ammo and using captured guns ammo is smart.
If your referring to Chechen terrorists known as "Field commander" then I don't know what to tell you about their mindset as they lost the war anyway.


Both rounds are fine for what their designed to do. Each has it's own pros/cons and picking one over the other is personal preference and nothing more.

Shrubmaster
10-19-2011, 1:10 AM
Well again you think what you want ive shot multiple things with the 2 rounds and on living things 545 makes much more of a mess! 762 punches almost clean. But again I do own many of both so you think what you like and spread fud"i dont even k.ow what fud means lol" but maybe you should get some experience with things you talk about. Fyi dont take what im saying in a bad way or get upset.

Is your 545 keyholing? And have you tried 762 HP's?

Not that I'm bias, I. Really enjoy all russian/comblok ammo variaties, from 9mm mak to the 54R stuff.

(Spelling and punctuation I know, its my phone, not me)

zfields
10-19-2011, 1:13 AM
Is your 545 keyholing? And have you tried 762 HP's?

Not that I'm bias, I. Really enjoy all russian/comblok ammo variaties, from 9mm mak to the 54R stuff.

(Spelling and punctuation I know, its my phone, not me)

762 HPs are junk, they either shed the jacket instantly, or act as a FMJ. Even the Softpoints I keep loaded are just a touch better then FMJ's for that matter.

This is combloc HP, the hornady / corbon stuff is supposed to be pretty good.

Ryan in SD
10-19-2011, 2:39 AM
AK ... I am mainly looking for accuracy

:facepalm:

Might want to save up and get a custom heavy barrel then.

Mamluke
10-19-2011, 5:39 AM
Second: First battle in Grozny was NOT in 1996. No such thing as "of" either.


I stand corrected there, 1st battle of Grozny was 1994~1995:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Grozny_%281994%E2%80%931995%29

This thread is hijacked... :facepalm:

connorr93
10-19-2011, 8:12 AM
well this is certainly going downhill fast. haha

21SF
10-19-2011, 8:45 AM
Mines bigger than yours !!!! :p

NorCalK9.com
10-19-2011, 9:23 AM
Is your 545 keyholing? And have you tried 762 HP's?

Not that I'm bias, I. Really enjoy all russian/comblok ammo variaties, from 9mm mak to the 54R stuff.

(Spelling and punctuation I know, its my phone, not me)

Why would my ak74's keyhole? Is this more nonsense you've read? How can the ak74.be more accurate if it keyholes? So no ak74's dont keyhole unlessyou have a shot out barrel or a crappy U.S. Barrel and I have neither.

Shrubmaster
10-19-2011, 8:24 PM
Why would my ak74's keyhole? Is this more nonsense you've read? How can the ak74.be more accurate if it keyholes? So no ak74's dont keyhole unlessyou have a shot out barrel or a crappy U.S. Barrel and I have neither.

The way you said that your 74 shredded small mammals, made me question there was something else at play, I don't have a 74 yet.... just a question.

NorCalK9.com
10-19-2011, 8:39 PM
A 74 has a hollow cavity not tip in the front once the bullet strikes a target the rearend of the bullet transitions forward causing a pitch yaw effect which creates tumbling inside and exit.

pacifico23
10-19-2011, 9:09 PM
I'm still curious on this bear statement by norcal. I'm curious if a bear is charging you.. How many 5.45 shots you will get off compared to 7.62 shots in that ohhhh 3 seconds. Maybe 1-2? I'll take the bigger round against a bear than you very much.

Bigger is better against a charging bear. But not like Im talking from experience lol.

NorCalK9.com
10-19-2011, 9:15 PM
I'm still curious on this bear statement by norcal. I'm curious if a bear is charging you.. How many 5.45 shots you will get off compared to 7.62 shots in that ohhhh 3 seconds. Maybe 1-2? I'll take the bigger round against a bear than you very much.

Bigger is better against a charging bear. But not like Im talking from experience lol.

Ok good for you buddy. I dont have to worry about no bears but like I said before if I had the choose it'd be a 308 and even that is small but if I had to choose between 545 or 762x39 it'd be 545. But wait I get my 458socom upper tomorrow so id rather use the 500 grain bullet. Good luck with your bear troubles.

pacifico23
10-19-2011, 9:23 PM
Lol, I'm just saying... Seems kinda unreasonable. I agree going for the .308 or the .458. Personally I would just punch the bear in the face.

NorCalK9.com
10-19-2011, 9:36 PM
Lol, I'm just saying... Seems kinda unreasonable. I agree going for the .308 or the .458. Personally I would just punch the bear in the face.
well theyre you go then. Who needs a rifle i'll just slap him silly and make it cry uncle

zfields
10-20-2011, 4:09 AM
Id use the 545 to shoot my girl / buddy in the leg and run like hell.


:43:

nicoroshi
10-20-2011, 4:23 AM
You are a madman NorCalk9.com


I love it :43:

Mamluke
10-20-2011, 5:31 AM
WTF!!!! where did the 308 & the 458 soWHAT came into this conversation??!!
I said if you had to choose between a 5.45 & 7.62 & had but mere seconds to react!!!

I dunno how the 308 barged in there...well sure, I'd use a 50 cal..... :D LOL!!!

:chris:.....

21SF
10-20-2011, 8:59 AM
If either of you tried to killa charging bear with 5.45 OR 7.62 You would probably end up with an AK up your rear end......

The point is faster follow up shots with 5.45 due to less recoil.

I dont think the bear will be waiting for an infection before finishing his attack.

zfields
10-20-2011, 9:00 AM
WTF!!!! where did the 308 & the 458 soWHAT came into this conversation??!!
I said if you had to choose between a 5.45 & 7.62 & had but mere seconds to react!!!

I dunno how the 308 barged in there...well sure, I'd use a 50 cal..... :D LOL!!!

:chris:.....

If you havent quite realized Norcal is a lil nutty, this may have been your wakeup call.

Mamluke
10-20-2011, 2:16 PM
If either of you tried to killa charging bear with 5.45 OR 7.62 You would probably end up with an AK up your rear end......

The point is faster follow up shots with 5.45 due to less recoil.

I dont think the bear will be waiting for an infection before finishing his attack.

A bold statement coming from someone who probably doesn't have an AK! (according to your gun laundry list)....

This will settle the Bear scenario once & for all (I hope :D)
What if you had only ONE BULLET resting in the fire chamber?! Which caliber you think will do a better job when that f%$#@ Grizzly comes charging?...

:chris: guilty yer aaner

chead
10-20-2011, 3:28 PM
I think we can all agree: It would suck to get shot with 7.62 OR 5.45.

21SF
10-20-2011, 4:12 PM
A bold statement coming from someone who probably doesn't have an AK! (according to your gun laundry list)....

This will settle the Bear scenario once & for all (I hope :D)
What if you had only ONE BULLET resting in the fire chamber?! Which caliber you think will do a better job when that f%$#@ Grizzly comes charging?...

:chris: guilty yer aaner

Yes I DO!!!!!

The laundry list is outdated lol.

I would use that bullet on myself, lol.
http://i769.photobucket.com/albums/xx338/akamurk/Ak47.jpg

NorCalK9.com
10-20-2011, 4:23 PM
If you havent quite realized Norcal is a lil nutty, this may have been your wakeup call.

Bud are you retarded? I aint the one talki.g about kitty eating physco bears. Alls I said is that I prefer the 545 round over 762x39, dont hate me cause I dont go with the masses. And either way I am a lil nutty at times so booga booga booga lmfao.

Mamluke
10-20-2011, 4:47 PM
Yes I DO!!!!!

The laundry list is outdated lol.

I would use that bullet on myself, lol.
http://i769.photobucket.com/albums/xx338/akamurk/Ak47.jpg

Due...good looking rifle! R ya sure this ain't no paint ball gun?! JK :D

Bud are you retarded?...

Please let's try & be civilized & not call each others demeaning names!

zfields
10-20-2011, 5:29 PM
Bud are you retarded? I aint the one talki.g about kitty eating physco bears. Alls I said is that I prefer the 545 round over 762x39, dont hate me cause I dont go with the masses. And either way I am a lil nutty at times so booga booga booga lmfao.

dude, you need to chill the F out a little bit. Your hostility towards everyone is getting stupid.


Grow some thicker skin.

NorCalK9.com
10-20-2011, 5:37 PM
dude, you need to chill the F out a little bit. Your hostility towards everyone is getting stupid.


Grow some thicker skin.

Lmao what hostility do I have? Your the one getting hostile. Either way this debate doesnt affect me none. This is all over personal preference. He asked which ak to get I said ak74 and cause most of you commentors that never shot an ak74 get all but hurt and start talking about bears. See I can care less what you like or prfer I just find it funny that you dont know me yet resort to saying im insane. then you get your panties all bunched up cause I ask if your retarded? Lmao

zfields
10-20-2011, 5:39 PM
Lmao what hostility do I have? Your the one getting hostile. Either way this debate doesnt affect me none. This is all over personal preference. He asked which ak to get I said ak74 and cause most of you commentors that never shot an ak74 get all but hurt and start talking about bears. See I can care less what you like or prfer I just find it funny that you dont know me yet resort to saying im insane. then you get your panties all bunched up cause I ask if your retarded? Lmao

I said nutty, meaning you are a bit extreme in the way you come off via text.


You know what, not worth dealing with it. Much easier way to around this.

Cuerno_de_Chivo
10-20-2011, 5:41 PM
Just kiss and make up already. LOL

zfields
10-20-2011, 5:44 PM
Just kiss and make up already. LOL

I got something you can kiss buddy :P

NorCalK9.com
10-20-2011, 5:46 PM
I got something you can kiss buddy :P

And im the one who's text comes off hostile? Lmao

zfields
10-20-2011, 5:48 PM
And im the one who's text comes off hostile? Lmao

Hence smiley face. You know, Sarcasam and what not.

Mamluke
10-20-2011, 5:58 PM
BTW, the recoil on the 47 isn't really that bad & can be managed with practice/muzzle devices... ;)

Ok, can we talk about Kernel Qadaffi's , the late Kernel that is; Golden Gun now... :popcorn: ...
Just dying to glimpse a pics!
That Libyan rebel who took it is one happy SOB!

Change of venues lol... :)

..... :chris::chris:

steelholder
10-20-2011, 6:01 PM
:popcorn:

Cuerno_de_Chivo
10-20-2011, 6:11 PM
Dude this thread is too funny.

tujungatoes
10-20-2011, 6:15 PM
Wow this thread got fun LOL. Anyone who goes after a bear with either of the 2 major calibers is a complete idiot. How the hell did you guys get there?

whether it's 7.62 vs 5.45 or the good ol' 9mm vs 45acp debate. I've never met anyone so convinced of the inferiority of the opposing caliber that they'd let me shoot them with one.:rolleyes:

Can we get a stirring the sh*t smilie?:D

chicoredneck
10-20-2011, 6:28 PM
I'll throw my hat in the ring. I prefer the 5.45 over the 7.62x39 and, as a pure cheap and high volume fire cartridge for under 300 yards it is my favorite. My preference because of it's low recoil, cost, and high degree of control.

Mamluke
10-20-2011, 6:44 PM
Wow this thread got fun LOL. Anyone who goes after a bear with either of the 2 major calibers is a complete idiot. How the hell did you guys get there?

whether it's 7.62 vs 5.45 or the good ol' 9mm vs 45acp debate. I've never met anyone so convinced of the inferiority of the opposing caliber that they'd let me shoot them with one.:rolleyes:

Can we get a stirring the sh*t smilie?:D

Oh this gets interesting by the minute!

First, let me just say; that whoever is concerned about recoil with an AK47 needs to go to the gym, SERIOUSLY PEOPLE, GET IN BLOODY SHAPE!!! IT'S NOT that BIG of freaking deal!

Second, NO ONE IS GOING AFTER A BLOODY BEAR!
How some of you guys make up things as you go along is hysterical!
I was just making up a scenario where a Grizzly might charge, NOT GO AFTER!

& Third; I did NOT put down the 545 caliber?! Or say it was "inferior" WTF?!!!

I believe 5.45 is a phenomenal cartridge! I simply stated that IF I HAD A CHOICE, I, personally, WILL CHOOSE the 7.62! That's me pal; NOT putting down any caliber, let alone 5.45! I hope ya all gets it by now & please read thoroughly before you chime in guns totting...LOL

............

coltn46920
10-20-2011, 6:48 PM
:oji:I choose both 7.62x39 and 5.45x39

!@#$
10-20-2011, 6:58 PM
for those that want to learn the truth...

http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=310

zfields
10-20-2011, 8:37 PM
Dude this thread is too funny.

oy oy!


Give me either caliber, Ill put down a bear.
















cub.

NorCalK9.com
10-20-2011, 8:49 PM
I dont think the recoil of the 47 is too much for any normal sized man, what it is, 762x39 shoot 10 rounds as fast as you can at a 100 yards n see which one you can shoot faster. I LOVE ak47's do not get me wrong but a prefer the 74 more and I love shooting my saiga308 16in barrel. Also dont know if it makes a difference but I stand or kneel when I shoot 90% of the time maybe thats why I get more muzzle rise out of the 47.

erichuff7
10-20-2011, 10:05 PM
That cop in ohio just drilled a bear with one shot of his service pistol so i guess 7.62 or 5.45 should do the trick generally.

SJgunguy24
10-21-2011, 4:14 AM
If I could get the chamber cutter and finish reamers I was going to build up an AK in 50 Beowulf.

zfields
10-21-2011, 6:04 AM
If I could get the chamber cutter and finish reamers I was going to build up an AK in 50 Beowulf.

that would be interesting.

NorCalK9.com
10-21-2011, 9:09 AM
Yeah that would be awesome

Cuerno_de_Chivo
10-21-2011, 11:07 AM
I dont think the recoil of the 47 is too much for any normal sized man, what it is, 762x39 shoot 10 rounds as fast as you can at a 100 yards n see which one you can shoot faster. I LOVE ak47's do not get me wrong but a prefer the 74 more and I love shooting my saiga308 16in barrel. Also dont know if it makes a difference but I stand or kneel when I shoot 90% of the time maybe thats why I get more muzzle rise out of the 47.

I think you need an AK74 style muzzle break on your 47.

smattenson
10-21-2011, 11:41 AM
Ya the 74 style muzzle break that comes on the arsenal works really good :). As well don't know if you guys saw this video that Travis Haley posted on youtube but it shows some cool resultshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUbxO3jkJxc