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TWELVEGAGEDUDE
02-11-2007, 9:39 PM
Would like to here from owners, happy or otherwise with this rifle.Opinions?

C.G.
02-11-2007, 10:14 PM
Would like to here from owners, happy or otherwise with this rifle.Opinions?

This one has been done to death:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=43563&highlight=su-16

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=38391&highlight=su-16

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=34240&highlight=su-16

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=21189&highlight=su-16

These are several of many threads, I left out the SU-16 versus Mini 14.
If you like to read a lot just do a search on "SU-16.

TacFan
02-11-2007, 10:15 PM
I like mine. Light, ready to go when needed. It's something you would just toss in the back of your car and not worry about scratches :D Also accepts ar-15 mags which is an extra plus.

!@#$
02-11-2007, 10:59 PM
crap.

you can build an ar15 for about the same cost. there are great deals on the ar15.com EE. i have built an ar15 with quality lightly used parts for under $400. it's easy to do it for under $500 and if you are willing to spend $650 or so you can build a new m4 clone with quality parts.

i would take a well used ar15 over any su16 any day.

then again every keltech that i actually used has broke. their polymer is crap and you will be much better off in the long run if you just pass on keltech.

ETA don't over look an akm. $400 otd all day long for a new quality akm.

TacFan
02-12-2007, 12:01 AM
crap.

you can build an ar15 for about the same cost. there are great deals on the ar15.com EE. i have built an ar15 with quality lightly used parts for under $400. it's easy to do it for under $500 and if you are willing to spend $650 or so you can build a new m4 clone with quality parts.

i would take a well used ar15 over any su16 any day.

then again every keltech that i actually used has broke. their polymer is crap and you will be much better off in the long run if you just pass on keltech.

ETA don't over look an akm. $400 otd all day long for a new quality akm.

you really can't compare the two. Sure an AR-15 is better quality but you can't fold it in half like the SU. The SU is again a gun you can put in your backpack when hiking. It will barely add any weight.

I think it's good to have a variety. That's why I have my ARs and the SU as a truck gun.

BTW, I picked mine up for $350 so I couldn't pass up the deal.

Stanky626
02-12-2007, 12:17 AM
I own both and enjoy shooting both. The AR takes the cake, but the SU-16 is a fun plinker at an affordable price. Another member found it for $504 online. Sorry, can't remember the member or the website.

chsk9
02-12-2007, 12:23 AM
I really like my SU16CA with a few mods including compact front and a tijicon rx09 sight on it. Impressive out of the box accuracy. The somewhat flimsy stock is a weak link but every gun has something that could be improved. A nice no hassle alternative till the blackstar is released.

WokMaster1
02-12-2007, 8:02 AM
CG, obviously it has not been done to death yet. Just when you think that it is dead, it comes back ALIVE! This is the zombie that refuses to DIE! That's what should be discussed in the zombie/TEOTWAWKI section. The SU-16 that won't die..............................:D

This one has been done to death:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=43563&highlight=su-16

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=38391&highlight=su-16

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=34240&highlight=su-16

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=21189&highlight=su-16

These are several of many threads, I left out the SU-16 versus Mini 14.
If you like to read a lot just do a search on "SU-16.

bu-bye
02-12-2007, 9:14 AM
I like mine just fine. Its no AR but its a fun gun that is light and compact. Plus the su-16 is 100% cali legal. You don't have to worry about some stupid cop not know the AW laws and locking you up for having a pinned or grip-less AR.

metalhead357
02-12-2007, 10:09 AM
i would take a well used ar15 over any su16 any day.

then again every keltech that i actually used has broke. their polymer is crap and you will be much better off in the long run if you just pass on keltech.

I'd go the AR route too; just toooooooo many options and parts availability to just pass by. Add in the fact there has been some serious issues of breakage on several of the Keltecs.....and my own run ins with Keltec pistols through several friends and all thier problems with them I'll sumarize it for you......

SU-16CA = SUCA = It SUCKS:p

Dont do it! Dont do it lest ya' wanna be back here asking why it broke or how much you can sell a used one for & wondering why there's no traffic running your way.............

AJAX22
02-12-2007, 10:56 AM
For a long time I was on the cusp of buying one, but then the whole OLL thing came up and once I had an AR, the SU16 was kind of a sollution in search of a problem.

They are nifty, but way overpriced. I'd get one just to add it to my collection if it was 250-300, but at 500-600 I can think of half a dozen rifles that I'd rather buy.

I think alot of people feel this way, which is why you see so many SU16's come up for sale on gun forums. People bought them before they could get an AR15 and the toploading bushmasters and fab 10's were 1200 bucks, but nowadays with the prices coming down of better products, its not so hot.

Don't get me wrong, I think the design is nifty, its a great emergency rifle to fit in a nook in your car somewhere, but most people want it to be some kind of AK/AR substitute battle rifle, and its just not built to stand up to that kind of abuse.

metalhead357
02-12-2007, 11:08 AM
I think the design is nifty, its a great emergency rifle to fit in a nook in your car somewhere, but most people want it to be some kind of AK/AR substitute battle rifle, and its just not built to stand up to that kind of abuse.

Sorry...gotta disagree. The design aint new- can get a AR-7, a marlin papoose (Sp?), a takedown 10/22, or one of the survival rifles with a .410/22 and I know I'm forgetting a few other folder and/or takedowns. I just dont see how/why anyone would trust a gun thats definitely has issues as an "emergency" gun:confused: . Disposable gun? Maybe:p If emergency gun is needed I'd rather have an SKS, Moisin, Cheapie SG, or anything that has already successfully survived 1000 rounds and didn't need to be sent back to the factory for a complete overhaul!!!!

SgtBulldog
02-12-2007, 11:16 AM
I've never had a problem with my SU-16A (apart from the crappy sights which I replaced). Its a fun and accurate detachable-mag-takable shooter.

metalhead357
02-12-2007, 11:27 AM
I've never had a problem with my SU-16A (apart from the crappy sights which I replaced). Its a fun and accurate detachable-mag-takable shooter.

Whats your round count? And what are you shooting????

metalhead357
02-12-2007, 11:31 AM
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=105;action=display;num=1158646481

linking to this:eek:

http://s101.photobucket.com/albums/m66/willskel-tecimages/

Dr. Peter Venkman
02-12-2007, 11:33 AM
I view OLLs as a joke. I refuse to buy a neutered down AR-15 in order to be within the legal confines of wussy gun control law, especially when an SU-16CA gives me almost the same thing with a detachable mag and I don't have to look like a retard when I load it.

Not that I own any of the above nor do I want to. Soup Nazi's 16CA is nice, but I'm filling out my C & R stuff first.

metalhead357
02-12-2007, 11:41 AM
especially when an SU-16CA gives me almost the same thing with a detachable mag and I don't have to look like a retard when I load it..

Not quite:cool: I dont see armies all over the world carrying the keltec. So you gotta deal with a 'neutered one'. run a detachable mag set-up (within the law) and you're good to go---- without the hiccups of Keltec. More parts, more options, not-crap-plastic.........and the fact ya' get to put those mags into something it was originally designed for...not some company that cant make a decent firearm (pistol or rifle) to survive 10,000 rounds.......most of the SUCAs will be hurting or exploded before 5K

AJAX22
02-12-2007, 11:52 AM
Sorry...gotta disagree. The design aint new- can get a AR-7, a marlin papoose (Sp?), a takedown 10/22, or one of the survival rifles with a .410/22 and I know I'm forgetting a few other folder and/or takedowns. I just dont see how/why anyone would trust a gun thats definitely has issues as an "emergency" gun:confused: . Disposable gun? Maybe:p If emergency gun is needed I'd rather have an SKS, Moisin, Cheapie SG, or anything that has already successfully survived 1000 rounds and didn't need to be sent back to the factory for a complete overhaul!!!!


I agree that the marlin papoose is a great rifle, takedown 10/22's are great rifles, and the .410/22's are nifty as well.

The problem with all of them is that they are only .22 rifles, which while great for small game, won't allow you to go after real game.

All the problems i've heard of with the SU16 are semi auto function issues. they still go bang once no matter what. which is how I rate a survival rifle.

sks's, mosins, cheap shotguns all have the problem of being too dang big to stash and forget in your trunk. The best gun for any job is the one you have with you.

The emergency rifle, (IMHO) should be a gun in a calibre large enough to bring down a medium deer, and reliable enough to fire 100-200 rounds without changing zero at 75 yards. beyond that, all it has to do is fit in a small area.

I'm not looking at it as a good 'urben unrest' survival gun, I'm looking at it as a good 'oh crud I broke down in the snow and I need food' gun.

or a 'I'm carying a 60 pound pack and I need something ultra lightweight that can still take medium game and I don't plan on shooting more than about ten rounds the whole trip' kind of gun.

SKS's and shotguns are nice, but they are heavy and bulky.

Now don't think this is some kind of shining endorsement of the SU16, I'm not saying that, (there isn't any job the SU16 can do that an OLY93 carbine cant do better) I'm just saying that for a throw it in the trunk and forget it gun, the SU16 isn't a bad choice.

dhl
02-12-2007, 12:35 PM
+1 Right on the mark!

>>>Don't get me wrong, I think the design is nifty, its a great emergency rifle to fit in a nook in your car somewhere, but most people want it to be some kind of AK/AR substitute battle rifle, and its just not built to stand up to that kind of abuse.[/QUOTE]<<<

!@#$
02-12-2007, 12:42 PM
All the problems i've heard of with the SU16 are semi auto function issues. they still go bang once no matter what. which is how I rate a survival rifle.

The emergency rifle, (IMHO) should be a gun in a calibre large enough to bring down a medium deer, and reliable enough to fire 100-200 rounds without changing zero at 75 yards. beyond that, all it has to do is fit in a small area.

I'm not looking at it as a good 'urben unrest' survival gun, I'm looking at it as a good 'oh crud I broke down in the snow and I need food' gun.

or a 'I'm carying a 60 pound pack and I need something ultra lightweight that can still take medium game and I don't plan on shooting more than about ten rounds the whole trip' kind of gun.


Now don't think this is some kind of shining endorsement of the SU16, I'm not saying that, (there isn't any job the SU16 can do that an OLY93 carbine cant do better) I'm just saying that for a throw it in the trunk and forget it gun, the SU16 isn't a bad choice.


many keltechs have been known to go bang 2 times. first when you fire a round and second when the bolt carrier cycles back and breaks off the back of the "upper reciever".

oly arms is not good ar15 brand. they are about the same as model1 which is a small step up from vulcan/hesse/blackthorn.

so the su16 folds in half. hello push 2 pins and the ar15 is just as compact as the su16. the ar15 can be built just as light weight as the su16 but it will still be many times stronger/durable.

and resale value as has been stated before. you will get nearly all of your money back from an ar15 or akm. price your su16 near $350 and see how long it sits "for sale".

shark92651
02-12-2007, 12:55 PM
many keltechs have been known to go bang 2 times. first when you fire a round and second when the bolt carrier cycles back and breaks off the back of the "upper reciever".

oly arms is not good ar15 brand. they are about the same as model1 which is a small step up from vulcan/hesse/blackthorn.

so the su16 folds in half. hello push 2 pins and the ar15 is just as compact as the su16. the ar15 can be built just as light weight as the su16 but it will still be many times stronger/durable.

and resale value as has been stated before. you will get nearly all of your money back from an ar15 or akm. price your su16 near $350 and see how long it sits "for sale".

Even though you can pull a pin on an AR, it does not fold in half like a SU-16 - it makes a giant L shape and is even less compact so that is not a fair comparison. I like my Kel-Tec but I do not put it in the same class as my AR. I also could not build a new AR for the price of my Kel-Tec either - my upper alone costs a copy hundred dollars more than my SU-16. I think the avg AR will be about twice the price of a Kel-Tec.

LECTRIKHED
02-12-2007, 12:59 PM
I'd like to hear the opinion from people who actually own the SU16. I own one. It is an awesome rifle. Cheap, super lightweight, and reliable. It uses a gas piston system like the AKs, and AR magazines. I feel that it overcomes a lot of the disadvantages of the AR. Yeah no armies use, it's not an automatic rifle, and it is a relatively new design. I like to think of it as the Glock of rifles.

Most people don't realize how lightweight it is. I showed it to a friend of mine who was in the marines and he told me it was a lot better than the crappy M16 they gave them.

They do have a few issues out of the box. You should replace the extractor, you can use a standard AR extractor, or Kel-Tec will send you one for free. You should also polish the bottom of the bolt carrier (takes 5 minutes with 1200 grain wet sand paper), and replace the charging handle with the old style.

Kel-Tec service is great, they will send you any parts you need for free and quickly. The rifle also has a lifetime warranty.

I've put over 1500 rounds through mine. After making those upgrades I haven't had any problems t all. No jams, FTEs or anything. It can also shoot any type of ammo flawlessy. I primarily shoot PCA spectrum, the cheap plastic stuff. I've also shot wolf, brown bear, and golden bear without any problems.

Best thing about it is that it wont send you to jail, or cause unnecessary legal issues. I was looking into the U-15 setup and then I realized I already had it, it's a kel-tec.

metalhead357
02-12-2007, 1:14 PM
I agree that the marlin papoose is a great rifle, takedown 10/22's are great rifles, and the .410/22's are nifty as well.

The problem with all of them is that they are only .22 rifles, which while great for small game, won't allow you to go after real game.

All the problems i've heard of with the SU16 are semi auto function issues. they still go bang once no matter what. which is how I rate a survival rifle.

sks's, mosins, cheap shotguns all have the problem of being too dang big to stash and forget in your trunk. The best gun for any job is the one you have with you.

The emergency rifle, (IMHO) should be a gun in a calibre large enough to bring down a medium deer, and reliable enough to fire 100-200 rounds without changing zero at 75 yards. beyond that, all it has to do is fit in a small area.

I'm not looking at it as a good 'urben unrest' survival gun, I'm looking at it as a good 'oh crud I broke down in the snow and I need food' gun.

or a 'I'm carying a 60 pound pack and I need something ultra lightweight that can still take medium game and I don't plan on shooting more than about ten rounds the whole trip' kind of gun.

SKS's and shotguns are nice, but they are heavy and bulky.

Now don't think this is some kind of shining endorsement of the SU16, I'm not saying that, (there isn't any job the SU16 can do that an OLY93 carbine cant do better) I'm just saying that for a throw it in the trunk and forget it gun, the SU16 isn't a bad choice.

Yeah... isee I focused on the 22 caliber..... there are others out there in larger calibers.

I'm not exactly sure how you're saying that a Mosin or SKS doesn't pack well in a trunk:confused: the folding aspect kinda actually gets in the way of the SU's ability to fit into a long narrow gallow unless you leave it UNfolded...and then whats the point?

I agree with the presumption(s0 of a Emergency rifle but then again- if you're wanting something to take down deer sized items- the .223 flat out suxxxxx no matter what gun its out of; hunters dont hunt med/large game with them for a reason.... varmits yes, larger- no.

And the above ties in with the weight issue; I'll never understand the difference in carrying a 9 lb gun and 20 pounds of ammo or a 6 lb gun and 23 pounds of ammo as far as the "weight' issue goes. Arguably so a .22 IS a much more versital round and the weight of 1K of 22 rounds wont add up to 4 or 5 mags of .223. The idea of a "firefight" is a BHHHHAAAAAD idea regardless of the caliber....shoot-N-Scoot will keep you alive while shoot-n-stay will get you buried the same day.

I REALLY dunno what to say if you think a SKS is a heavy weapon!!!! 'cept START WORKING OUT:p Seriously...my friends gave me grief for years as I would woods-it with a 12 lb .308 rifle and well over 200 rounds. An SKS is nothing...and what? 1 lb over the SU:confused: ALLLLLLL the while being a MUCH more stout gun with a round that WILL bring down deer sized game.

As someone above already said- the SU is a solution to a problem that doesent exit and in solving it did it in a piece meal substandard way.

I'm NOT a real big fan of the Mini 14 though I own/have owned several--- and would readily reccomend that over a SU16 anyday of the week until the cows come home and milk themselves. Add in even the Mini has thousands more options/configurations and parts available......... I just dont get the SU.

Did Anyone look at the link????????
I DO NOT want that happening to me!!!!!!! And he's NOT the only one that's had it happen. No squib loads, relatively new rifle, no re-loads...and BLAM! Yeah:cool: I want a gun that can do that in 100 rounds or less.....

Bring in the SG discussion with the choice of slugs and/or OOO or OO buck and the ranges you've mentioned are more than doable...though I will fully agree the weight/ammo ratio suxxx. A pump action 870 express with synthetic stock and forearm is NOT that much more in weight than anything we've previously mentioned. Kick butt reputation....no chance of a LEO mistaking it as an "evil black rifle" and still many options/configs available.............

I KNOW I'm not the voice everyone wants to hear here-- but after the experiences with Keltecs with friends's pistols, thier reps all over the boards, the lack of 'sufficient' LEO departments using them/authorizing them---- WHY look to them when there are countless other options available?

metalhead357
02-12-2007, 1:27 PM
Most people don't realize how lightweight it is. I showed it to a friend of mine who was in the marines and he told me it was a lot better than the crappy M16 they gave them.

They do have a few issues out of the box. You should replace the extractor, you can use a standard AR extractor, or Kel-Tec will send you one for free. You should also polish the bottom of the bolt carrier (takes 5 minutes with 1200 grain wet sand paper), and replace the charging handle with the old style.

Kel-Tec service is great, they will send you any parts you need for free and quickly. The rifle also has a lifetime warranty.

I've put over 1500 rounds through mine. After making those upgrades I haven't had any problems t all. No jams, FTEs or anything. .

GOTTA call shenanagans on the Marine issue...Bring him here to talk!!!!!!!

WHY?????????? WHY for the Love of God would you drop $600 on a gun you need to polish and replace parts out of the box?????????

The lifetime warrentee? mUch like the SA one with the wanna-be new- Non True_Springfiled Arsenal garand. Get used to having them customer service numbers on speed dial:cool:

1500 rounds? No offense but that's nothing; I put that through a mini in a weekend, through a .22 in a day, a .308 in a weekend to a week.......and all without replacing parts or worrying about it blowing up in my face. I've litterall shot out several barrels before other parts break or even the springs start to sag. Ketec is NOT up to that.....

And in the absolute horror-of an idea- that the SHTF and ya' run out of ammo- there aint no pig sticker that can be mounted on the SU, nor will the rifle even remotely hold up to having to use it as a war club on some zombie's head:p

SgtBulldog
02-12-2007, 1:45 PM
Whats your round count? And what are you shooting????

Probably about 2000 rds of XM193 (haven't cleaned it yet).

SgtBulldog
02-12-2007, 1:57 PM
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5935333007505323905&q=KEL+TEC&hl=en

AJAX22
02-12-2007, 2:18 PM
Yeah... isee I focused on the 22 caliber..... there are others out there in larger calibers.

I'm not exactly sure how you're saying that a Mosin or SKS doesn't pack well in a trunk:confused: the folding aspect kinda actually gets in the way of the SU's ability to fit into a long narrow gallow unless you leave it UNfolded...and then whats the point?

I agree with the presumption(s0 of a Emergency rifle but then again- if you're wanting something to take down deer sized items- the .223 flat out suxxxxx no matter what gun its out of; hunters dont hunt med/large game with them for a reason.... varmits yes, larger- no.

And the above ties in with the weight issue; I'll never understand the difference in carrying a 9 lb gun and 20 pounds of ammo or a 6 lb gun and 23 pounds of ammo as far as the "weight' issue goes. Arguably so a .22 IS a much more versital round and the weight of 1K of 22 rounds wont add up to 4 or 5 mags of .223. The idea of a "firefight" is a BHHHHAAAAAD idea regardless of the caliber....shoot-N-Scoot will keep you alive while shoot-n-stay will get you buried the same day.

I REALLY dunno what to say if you think a SKS is a heavy weapon!!!! 'cept START WORKING OUT:p Seriously...my friends gave me grief for years as I would woods-it with a 12 lb .308 rifle and well over 200 rounds. An SKS is nothing...and what? 1 lb over the SU:confused: ALLLLLLL the while being a MUCH more stout gun with a round that WILL bring down deer sized game.

As someone above already said- the SU is a solution to a problem that doesent exit and in solving it did it in a piece meal substandard way.

I'm NOT a real big fan of the Mini 14 though I own/have owned several--- and would readily reccomend that over a SU16 anyday of the week until the cows come home and milk themselves. Add in even the Mini has thousands more options/configurations and parts available......... I just dont get the SU.

Did Anyone look at the link????????
I DO NOT want that happening to me!!!!!!! And he's NOT the only one that's had it happen. No squib loads, relatively new rifle, no re-loads...and BLAM! Yeah:cool: I want a gun that can do that in 100 rounds or less.....

Bring in the SG discussion with the choice of slugs and/or OOO or OO buck and the ranges you've mentioned are more than doable...though I will fully agree the weight/ammo ratio suxxx. A pump action 870 express with synthetic stock and forearm is NOT that much more in weight than anything we've previously mentioned. Kick butt reputation....no chance of a LEO mistaking it as an "evil black rifle" and still many options/configs available.............

I KNOW I'm not the voice everyone wants to hear here-- but after the experiences with Keltecs with friends's pistols, thier reps all over the boards, the lack of 'sufficient' LEO departments using them/authorizing them---- WHY look to them when there are countless other options available?


In smaller vehicles (i.e. my jetta or volvo, and don't give me cr@p about it, I've got real cars too, but I can't afford the gass for the bigblocks) the easiest place to hide a rifle is in the section of the trunk created by the rear fenders, this has the added benifit of allowing the rifle to remain hidden to people who walk behind you, while having a full sized rifle can be easily seen.

I have to disagree on the issue of not using a .223 to hunt medium game, while larger cartridges work arguably better, the .223 is sufficient to drop small deer.

you make a valid point about the .22 ammo capacity, (a point I've made myself in similar debates) but sometimes you just need a little more than what the .22 brings to the table.

I'm a big guy, 6'5" 255lbs and i'm in pretty good shape so me stating that the sks is just too dang heavy comes from the fact that I have an sks, and when i compare it to my AMD65's and AK47's (let alone comparing it to an AR) it feels like you're hanging a five pound weight off the end of the gun, It's not my first choice for heading into the hills (although I would take it if I had nothing else) and I'd rather have a remington 721 or 700 for less weight and more range If I had to have something that big.

I've got a mini 14 as well, its interesting and durable, and probably a better gun all around than the su16, but to fill the niche of intermediate rifle cartridge firearm that fits in a little nook in my trunk, the SU16 is a pretty good choice.

Now don't misconstrue this to be me endorsing ownership of the SU16 over other rifles, there is a reason that I own just about every rifle you've proposed as an alternative to the su16 but not an su16 itself. I'm just saying that for some people with a specific set of needs, the SU16 gets the job done.

It's not a gun that I would recommend for anything but stashing for emergencys, and then, you're right that an ar7 should probably be stashed with it for versitility.

The nice thing is that the SU16 when folded doesn't look like a recognizable firearm, and fits places that most long guns don't.

anyway, I'm late for class.

peace

Wildhawk66
02-12-2007, 2:42 PM
To get back to the original post. I have a ca model that initially had a stove pipe issue averaging maybe one in every 10 rounds. Needlesss to say I was not happy.

After a little research, I followed the recommendations over at Ktog and replaced the charging handle with the roundle one (provided free, no questions asked by Keltec) and installed a Bushmaster extractor (about $20 if I remember right) and I have not had one single problem since.

Round count to date is several hundred and overall I am very happy with the performance and accuracy of the rifle. Bought it to be a lightweight packable rifle, not an alternative for the AR or similar, and if your looking for the same I would recommend it. As sad as this sounds, juts plan on doing some minor improvements to it before taking it out and you shouldn't have any issues.

LECTRIKHED
02-12-2007, 3:49 PM
No pig sticker? This rifle is awesome. I installed the first bayonet on the SU-16

http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=105;action=display;num=1170219325

metalhead357
02-12-2007, 4:54 PM
No pig sticker? This rifle is awesome. I installed the first bayonet on the SU-16

http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=105;action=display;num=1170219325

LOL! That IS a pig sticker on one!!!!!! OMG I Stand corrected:o Now lets see one with some frog geening epuipment on it!!!!:p


Quote:
Originally Posted by metalhead357
Whats your round count? And what are you shooting????


Probably about 2000 rds of XM193 (haven't cleaned it yet).

AH! You my friend then have the dubious honor of being the only person I know (to speak with directly) that has surpased 1K without a problem. I dont say that tongue in cheek or to be a smartie; check it well, check it often for cracks! I dont wanna see another post like the one link I posted above!!!!!


In smaller vehicles .....(etc,)

I have to disagree on the issue of not using a .223 to hunt medium game, while larger cartridges work arguably better, the .223 is sufficient to drop small deer.

........but sometimes you just need a little more than what the .22 brings to the table.

I'm a big guy, 6'5" 255lbs and i'm in pretty good shape so me stating that the sks is just too dang heavy comes from the fact that I have an sks, and when i compare it to my AMD65's and AK47's (let alone comparing it to an AR) it feels like you're hanging a five pound weight off the end of the gun, It's not my first choice for heading into the hills (although I would take it if I had nothing else) and I'd rather have a remington 721 or 700 for less weight and more range If I had to have something that big.

I've got a mini 14 as well, its interesting and durable, and probably a better gun all around than the su16, but to fill the niche of intermediate rifle cartridge firearm that fits in a little nook in my trunk, the SU16 is a pretty good choice.

Now don't misconstrue this .........

It's not a gun that I would recommend for anything but stashing for emergencys, and then, you're right that an ar7 should probably be stashed with it for versitility.


The nice thing is that the SU16 when folded doesn't look like a recognizable firearm, and fits places that most long guns don't.

anyway, I'm late for class.

peace

Thanks for the followup;
I know some do hunt deer with a .223...I've considered it for Blacktail but then I somehow always run into someone each year that's been chasing a deer for 5+ hours:cool: And inevitably~ its something smaller than a 30 cal anything....and that has included some 270's!!!! So I DOOOOoooo agree in principle, in fact, in deed and in concept.....but gimmie bigger holes for faster bleedout any day; but yes---in a pinch I would use one.


Well, you've got an easy 7" inches on me and at least 25 lbs...... I CAn relate that the SKS aint my first choice and it is 'clunky' though the diff in weight between it and an AK has been negligible to me....but I DO favor the AK as it just seems ride better on a sling either across the back, or semi-under arm. I Do know what you mean about the weight at the end...I've been seriously considering butchering one of my Yugo's in the way that JP did his to see if that might alleviate some of this...... Check out his post on it; you might consider the same...... I can honestly say though I'm just hesitant to do it as it aint UN-doable!!!!!!!!!

Sounds like we're on definitely the same page with the Mini 14; they're there...they're just "ehhhhh". They will do the job but neither gracefully nor spectacularly in everything you've said save the collapsibility; and I see you point about smaller cars--- just looked at the wife's import; always forget just how dang small them things are!!!!!!!!!!

As said- you do have something on that concealabilty in some cases. I just sincerely wish there was another/different platform & company providing it rather than Keltec; I keep *trying* to get caught up in the craze...and then wait...and then come more bad reports of them that have steered me clear.

Have fun in class! Give that cute girl in front of you a gentle hair tug and tell her you wanna take her shooting;)

To get back to the original post......

Thank you for that. And your experiences---- My question(s) remains though....do you think its normal, wise, practical to have to go through all that for a gun fresh outta the box?

Our original poster/questionerererer who has yet to return has a 12 Ga. moniker which lead me to believe right off the bat that he will probably NOT be happy with a SU.....just my semi-solicited 0.02 as I hate seeing peeople spend good money on.........lacking....products; or chasing good money after bad trying to fix that same product when it should come from the factory good to go.....

I'll Chime OUT...as I've offered my advice and my experiences with the gun even though not an owner. I'll let the others have thier say and say shutted-up lest someone asks me a direct question......

Clodbuster
02-12-2007, 5:14 PM
Better make that 2. 1600 rds of SS109 with about 20 jams due to the surplus ammo.
Cleaned twice so far, and lubed the action after every 10th magazine (30 rounders). No cracks, other than when the bullet goes supersonic. Love the SU-16CA.

Clod

AH! You my friend then have the dubious honor of being the only person I know (to speak with directly) that has surpased 1K without a problem. I dont say that tongue in cheek or to be a smartie; check it well, check it often for cracks! I dont wanna see another post like the one link I posted above!!!!!

C.G.
02-12-2007, 6:33 PM
CG, obviously it has not been done to death yet. Just when you think that it is dead, it comes back ALIVE! This is the zombie that refuses to DIE! That's what should be discussed in the zombie/TEOTWAWKI section. The SU-16 that won't die..............................:D

And people posting never feel strongly about it one way or the other, do they?:D

IT IS ALIVE!:eek:

ketec_owner
02-12-2007, 7:04 PM
Love my Keltec SU-16CA.

-It folds
-It's super lightweight
-It has a top rail built in
-Threaded muzzle
-Takes M16/AR-15 mags
-Buttstock storage for mags
-Operating Handle
-Gas Piston Operated
-It's cheap!
-Totally CA legal

I've never had a problem with it. 2000+ rounds of XM193 @ 3100 ft/sec. So it's no beauty queen. So what! It didn't cost $1000+ either. I guess it's kinda like comparing a Kahr 9mm pocket pistol to a top dollar Kimber 1911. No comparison - but not the same purpose either.

Inkman
02-12-2007, 7:04 PM
Deleted because well.........................................

LECTRIKHED
02-12-2007, 8:25 PM
Deleted because well.........................................

dychen
02-12-2007, 8:31 PM
I have one, and while its compact/light and the fact that it folds in half is really cool, it jams ALOT. I contacted keltech and they sent me an extractor, so hopefully this will fix it, but when I went to the gunstore the other day they where packaging up 2 SU-16CA that had "short chambers" and no matter what they did they wouldnt feed reliabily. So it sits in the safe, its fun to take to the range so i dont have to deal with the OLL thing, but if i was stuck in a SHTF situation, i'd take my SKS or Mosin over it, so far neather of them have jammed (and both combined cost less then the SU-16).

!@#$
02-12-2007, 8:31 PM
i have owned one and i gave my opinion. i have heard of jennings,lorcin, and hipoint pistols that worked. if they cost the same as a used glock would you still buy the jusk pistol?

metalhead357
02-12-2007, 10:27 PM
Deleted because well.........................................

Ok.... i'll dump mine too in the spirit of keeping this thread going; my better half got the better of me & before I could edit- the board went down!!!!


((Sorry Kes, Ivan, Blk.....etc:rolleyes: /grumbling metalhead/)))

LECTRIKHED
02-12-2007, 10:32 PM
WTF?????

Ya' show up late...add nothing, bad mouth the threads and the posts and ya' go freudian on us about size?

Ya...he ASKED FOR OPINIONS.....so while I aint an owner (as noted above) I've known a few....What else to do but to compare it to other guns/options and peeps experiences with them.Does THAT make my dick any less smaller to make you feel better about yourself? And ya' my mommy loved me:cool:

Do us a favor- aint got nothing to contribute but bad mouthing- why not just stay off the thread???????



((Sorry Kes, Ivan, Blk.....etc:rolleyes: /grumbling metalhead/)))


Amen!

Richie Rich
02-13-2007, 6:36 AM
I like my CA model. It has about 1,000 rounds down the pipe and other then a stovepipe on the 1st mag I have never had a problem with it.

Lightweight, pretty accurate, folds up for easy transport and storage, takes AR mags (great if you have some standard cap mags laying around).

Downsides: I would not ever try to buttstroke someone with it, the factory mags are about useless, the bipod is flimsy.

I replaced the bipod with the compact forend kit from KelTec, cleaned and polished the extractor and bought some bushmaster 10/20 mags. It is not an AR but I really like it.

metalhead357
02-13-2007, 7:39 AM
Well.......

If all my nay-saying hasn't scared ya' off- here's a member trying to sell; last look was 49 views and no takers yet....

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=49083

Shenaniguns
02-13-2007, 9:00 AM
The price is why it's not selling...


Well.......

If all my nay-saying hasn't scared ya' off- here's a member trying to sell; last look was 49 views and no takers yet....

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=49083

SunriseF150
02-13-2007, 10:35 AM
Well since we have an active SU-16 post. If anyone has a stock they want to sell hit me up. Just need the stock.

Clem
03-26-2007, 6:50 PM
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5935333007505323905&q=KEL+TEC&hl=en

This one looks like it works. How do you explain that ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCDm-QM8Tao

Hmmm this one works too. Wow 90 shots and it didn't jam or blow up.

E Pluribus Unum
03-26-2007, 7:29 PM
i have built an ar15 with quality lightly used parts for under $400. it's easy to do it for under $500

I call BS.... maybe I am an idiot here but I would LOVE to know how to build an AR for less than $400.00; even $500.00.

I spent $210 on my lower receiver... I have $190.00 left over to build the upper receiver. I will even give you the extra $100 because it is "easy".

Please tell me how I can build an upper receiver for $290.00 and I will be forever in your debt.

E Pluribus Unum
03-26-2007, 7:40 PM
Comparing an SU-16 to an M-16 would be like comparing a Camaro to a K1500 pickup because they both have a 350 engine and a 700R4 transmission. Both have the same engine and drive trane but there is so much else in the mix that they function in different ways.

The M16/AR15 shoots .223 and has a rotating bolt design. That is about where the similarities end.

The M-16 is a battle-hardened war machine. It weighs damn near 10 pounds and serves as an infantry-level weapon.

The SU-16 weighs half as much (nearly 4 pounds) and will fold up and fit in a backpack, under a seat, et cetera.

If you do not care about the strengths of an SU-16 (weight and folding up in a concealed place) then buy the AR.

I own both. For accuracy and dependability I carry the OLL. I carry the SU-16 for a SHTF scenario. I keep a loaded 30 rounder in the butt stock with it folded up under the driver's seat. Because it is not a handgun it can legally be concealed. This way if SHTF I can reach under the seat to grab my rifle and while seeking concealment behind my vehicle I can be ready to go in under 5 seconds. Name an AR legal to own in California that can do that and I will eat my hat. :)

!@#$
03-26-2007, 7:56 PM
I call BS.... maybe I am an idiot here but I would LOVE to know how to build an AR for less than $400.00; even $500.00.

I spent $210 on my lower receiver... I have $190.00 left over to build the upper receiver. I will even give you the extra $100 because it is "easy".

Please tell me how I can build an upper receiver for $290.00 and I will be forever in your debt.

call BS then ask for my help:rolleyes:

first you paid to much for your lower so take $50 off from that. look on the ar15.com ee. i often see complete uppers for $300 or less. i sold a like new bushmaster upper here for $350. i got a colt BCG in very good condition for $75 a week ago and an armalite BCG for $50 a few months back. a few months back i got a complete colt A2 upper for $250 shipped. it was well used but plenty of life left. i can get 3moa with irons with it. i got a used dpms LPK from glocktalk for $25 shipped. there was a guy on gunbroker a month or so back that had A1 uppers in very good condition for $150 each. deals are there if you look so maybe you are an idiot:p

E Pluribus Unum
03-26-2007, 8:08 PM
call BS then ask for my help:rolleyes:

first you paid to much for your lower so take $50 off from that. look on the ar15.com ee. i often see complete uppers for $300 or less. i sold a like new bushmaster upper here for $350. i got a colt BCG in very good condition for $75 a week ago and an armalite BCG for $50 a few months back. a few months back i got a complete colt A2 upper for $250 shipped. it was well used but plenty of life left. i can get 3moa with irons with it. i got a used dpms LPK from glocktalk for $25 shipped. there was a guy on gunbroker a month or so back that had A1 uppers in very good condition for $150 each. deals are there if you look so maybe you are an idiot:p

The $50.00 is to accomodate tax and DROS; it is easy to have $210 invested "out the door".

You said it was "easy". Building one from parts over a several month period is not "easy". Even with your $50 difference on the lower you still expect to build a decent AR upper for $240.00. I have yet to find such a deal when you consider paying shipping on all the individual parts.

The point is moot however; you are comparing used, second hand AR parts with a brand new SU-16. The rifles themselves are apples and oranges; when you take it a step further and compare new to used I believe it is very unfair.

Compare a new SU-16 to a new AR. The cheapest (decent) new AR upper I could find was a RRA at about $500.00. Add the price of the lower receiver (you say $180) plus shipping you are looking at $700.00 for a base-line new AR.

P.S.
I called BS... I did not however say it was impossible... if you can prove me wrong I would be very interested. I have a naked receiver sitting next to me...

!@#$
03-26-2007, 8:18 PM
The $50.00 is to accomodate tax and DROS; it is easy to have $210 invested "out the door".

You said it was "easy". Building one from parts over a several month period is not "easy". Even with your $50 difference on the lower you still expect to build a decent AR upper for $240.00. I have yet to find such a deal when you consider paying shipping on all the individual parts.

The point is moot however; you are comparing used, second hand AR parts with a brand new SU-16. The rifles themselves are apples and oranges; when you take it a step further and compare new to used I believe it is very unfair.

Compare a new SU-16 to a new AR. The cheapest (decent) new AR upper I could find was a RRA at about $500.00. Add the price of the lower receiver (you say $180) plus shipping you are looking at $700.00 for a base-line new AR.


you can buy lowers for $80 shipped. tax dros ffl fee you are still right at $150otd.

building over a couple months is very easy you just want it cheap and now.

i have built one on the cheap in one week but i was lucky to find those deals so quick.

i will take a ratty *** ar15 made from quality parts over any su16 any day. i am sure anybody that gets off the bench would too.

also you can store your off list ar15 in halves under your seat and it will be in action nearly as fast as your su16.

i guess an all colt A2 upper for $250 shipped that i can shoot 3moa with irons isn't decent enough for you. you sound like you would still ***** if i gave you an upper for free.

!@#$
03-26-2007, 8:33 PM
P.S.
I called BS... I did not however say it was impossible... if you can prove me wrong I would be very interested. I have a naked receiver sitting next to me...

P.S. i called you a liar ...i didn't say it was impossible:rolleyes:

E Pluribus Unum
03-26-2007, 8:34 PM
you can buy lowers for $80 shipped. tax dros ffl fee you are still right at $150otd.

i guess an all colt A2 upper for $250 shipped that i can shoot 3moa with irons isn't decent enough for you. you sound like you would still ***** if i gave you an upper for free.

I cannot buy one shipped for $80.00. The only FFL in this area willing to transfer an OLL stocks them at $170.00 and will not transfer an internet sale OLL. As it is he is 40 miles away so I have to drive 160 miles (2 trips) to get one.



3 MOA isn't that good.... its decent with irons but I wonder what it is capable of with a scope.

If you can get a decent A2 upper for $250.00 shipped to my door I would be interested. Of course I would also need a LPK for my lower.

E Pluribus Unum
03-26-2007, 8:37 PM
P.S. i called you a liar ...i didn't say it was impossible:rolleyes:

Why would you be so rude?? I can be full of carp without lieing. In order for me to be a liar I would have to know I was full of carp when I said it. Ignorant, maybe; a liar I am not.

!@#$
03-26-2007, 8:40 PM
Why would you be so rude?? I can be full of carp without lieing. In order for me to be a liar I would have to know I was full of carp when I said it. Ignorant, maybe; a liar I am not.


no it was you who called me a liar when you called BS. it is the internet afterall so i don't really care. i gave you the info you need if i find a good deal i will buy it myself or for a friend.

thefinger
03-26-2007, 8:54 PM
wow, guys that was fun to read.:p
............................

anyhow, I have a question for some of you su-16 guys out there.

The complaint I have with the SU-16CA is that it feels too lightweight. It feels like a Nerf gun to me when I hold it in the store. Also, the standard handguard/bipod they have on it feels cheap to me.

I see that they have a different handguard for sale for the SU-16 caled a "compact forend conversion." It looks pretty good, cheap, and it seems like it would fix the problem that I have with the standard handguard.

But is there an alternate buttstock for the rifle that feels/looks better? I only see the folding stock on the website, and that's a no-no. anyone have a different stock?:confused:

C.G.
03-26-2007, 9:02 PM
Vow, an SU-16 thread that went five pages without flaming.:eek:

E Pluribus Unum
03-26-2007, 9:04 PM
I gave you the info you need if i find a good deal i will buy it myself or for a friend.

Ok then, I will defer concession of my ignorance pending your disclosure of this "good deal".


wow, guys that was fun to read.:p

I have been accused of many things; dull posts is not one of them. :)

C.G.
03-26-2007, 9:07 PM
wow, guys that was fun to read.:p
............................

anyhow, I have a question for some of you su-16 guys out there.

The complaint I have with the SU-16CA is that it feels too lightweight. It feels like a Nerf gun to me when I hold it in the store. Also, the standard handguard/bipod they have on it feels cheap to me.

I see that they have a different handguard for sale for the SU-16 caled a "compact forend conversion." It looks pretty good, cheap, and it seems like it would fix the problem that I have with the standard handguard.

But is there an alternate buttstock for the rifle that feels/looks better? I only see the folding stock on the website, and that's a no-no. anyone have a different stock?:confused:

I no longer have an SU-16 (sold it to finance other stuff and still regret it).
It is not an AR-15 but it has its uses (backpacking, truck gun etc.).

The buttstock is integral to the SU-16CA and cannot be changed easily. As far as legality; the SU-16 CA id legal folded because it cannot be fired folded, that is why it also is legal from overall length requirement (it is long enough in the configuration in which it can be fired).

thefinger
03-26-2007, 9:22 PM
I found this picture of a SU-16 that I don;t thinklooks half-bad..... is this a custom cheek-weld piece or is it available somewhere online?

[img=http://aycu15.webshots.com/image/12574/2003193850046089546_rs.jpg] (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2003193850046089546)

C.G.
03-26-2007, 9:25 PM
I found this picture of a SU-16 that I don;t thinklooks half-bad..... is this a custom cheek-weld piece or is it available somewhere online?

[img=http://aycu15.webshots.com/image/12574/2003193850046089546_rs.jpg] (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2003193850046089546)

Pic is not coming out, provide a link, please.

Never mind, I saw it. That is someone's mod to the stock.

pewpewguns
03-26-2007, 10:15 PM
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5935333007505323905&q=KEL+TEC&hl=en

Whats that white stuff all over the place .. :confused:

thefinger
03-26-2007, 10:47 PM
ahhhh i want one now......

anyone have a red-dot sight on one of these and want to post a picture?:D

CA SHOOTER
03-26-2007, 11:31 PM
Heres my SU16B with a Bushnell Holosight .
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g273/JamesDub131/DSC00814.jpg

Clodbuster
03-27-2007, 9:28 PM
Nothing wrong with a lightweight gun...means you can carry more ammo. :D

The handguard/bipod is pretty solid. I've tried rapid firing 50rds through in under 30 seconds. It got pretty hot, but didn't melt. Personally would only open it up to use as a bipod as a last resort if I couldn't find anything else for support on a critical long shot.

And as for the stock, well that Goggle video of it being smacked around pretty speaks for itself.

Clod


wow, guys that was fun to read.:p
............................

anyhow, I have a question for some of you su-16 guys out there.

The complaint I have with the SU-16CA is that it feels too lightweight. It feels like a Nerf gun to me when I hold it in the store. Also, the standard handguard/bipod they have on it feels cheap to me.

I see that they have a different handguard for sale for the SU-16 caled a "compact forend conversion." It looks pretty good, cheap, and it seems like it would fix the problem that I have with the standard handguard.

But is there an alternate buttstock for the rifle that feels/looks better? I only see the folding stock on the website, and that's a no-no. anyone have a different stock?:confused:

gunrun45
03-27-2007, 11:52 PM
I really wish my Natec ammo (polymer cased 223) ran in this gun. It would make an already light weight rifle package SWEET to pack.

I like my keltek. I carry it in my trunk every day (off duty LEO) and provides a lot of comfort in a very small package. I threw on an aimpoint clone, smith muzzle break and a compact forend (goffly factory forearm sucks) and I had a really cool set up. I added a trijicon front sight and my sirefire B200 go everywhere do everything flashlight for night time "problems".

ns3v3n
03-28-2007, 12:32 AM
I love my Kel Tec SU16 CA model. They're a fun gun to build up. You can get great deals on them at ddsranch.com for $519 for CA model. Then, just add stuff like the tactical forend and a 10 round/20 looking mag.:)


that's a real good looking rifle.

E Pluribus Unum
04-09-2007, 2:17 AM
Ok then, I will defer concession of my ignorance pending your disclosure of this "good deal".

I still have found no "good deal" and you have not mentioned anything.... you said it was "easy".... show me how.



no it was you who called me a liar when you called BS. it is the internet afterall so i don't really care. i gave you the info you need if i find a good deal i will buy it myself or for a friend.

i guess an all colt A2 upper for $250 shipped that i can shoot 3moa with irons isn't decent enough for you. you sound like you would still ***** if i gave you an upper for free.

Still looking....

Chaingun
04-09-2007, 8:29 AM
crap.

you can build an ar15 for about the same cost. there are great deals on the ar15.com EE. i have built an ar15 with quality lightly used parts for under $400. it's easy to do it for under $500 and if you are willing to spend $650 or so you can build a new m4 clone with quality parts.

i would take a well used ar15 over any su16 any day.

then again every keltech that i actually used has broke. their polymer is crap and you will be much better off in the long run if you just pass on keltech.

ETA don't over look an akm. $400 otd all day long for a new quality akm.


The SU-16s feature is they fold in 1/2 making it a nice trunk gun. Otherwise go with an AR build, pop the pins and have a better trunk gun.

Full Clip
04-09-2007, 9:12 AM
The Kel-Tec is obviously not a mil-spec weapon, but why spend so much time and energy comparing apples and oranges. Or getting angry? The AR platform may be "better" in many ways, but some would argue that the M96 is better still, the AK is more reliable, etc., etc.
Thanks goodness that creative people have helped ensure that we CA folk can actually make such choices. Just a few years ago, the Mini-14 was pretty much the only choice if you wanted a new .223 semi-auto...
I have an SU-16 and really like it.
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-3/981624/IMGP3931sm.jpg
Will I get an AR-type rifle at some point? Absolutely. Will I sell my SU-16CA, absolutely not.

SoCalXD
06-08-2007, 1:22 AM
I see it like this: Hi-Cap California Carbine choices are AR-neuters, Mini-14s or Keltecs. When the SHTF over Imigration (and it probably will) you might need to carry a slung rifle or at least have it available in your front seat:

With an AR neuter, I can guarentee you are going to be stopped by just about every LEO who see you with it. You might make it through the first road block if the LEO's are in a good mood and you are an over 30 year old conservative looking citizen, but your chances aren't too good over the long run. Not to mention you'll be in the crosshairs of ever police sniper since you are carrying an AR.

With a Mini-14, you have a pretty good chance of keeping it at the road blocks and not getting lined up for very long in a SWAT officer's scope. Problem is that the magazines are pretty unreliable, un-available, and lets face it, not many people stocked up on 30rd Ruger Factory Mags before the ban, like we did with AR Mags. For those of you who did stock up on reliable Mini mags before the ban, good on you! But for the majority of citizens, you're stuck with 10 rounders, which is a bad place to be in a public wiliding environment.

The Kel-tec is pretty well known to be legal (like the Mini) by LEOs, so their's a good chance you'll be able to keep it at the road blocks. Since it's a black rifle. it might get a little more notice than a wood stocked Mini, but probably not much unless you have a bunch of junk hanging off the aftermaket Picatiny rail forend. Since a lot of people have AR mags, it just makes sense for those that do, to go with a Kel-Tec as a Pack/Car gun.

Now, that's not to say that the Kel-Tec is a good choice for Three-gun, or regular range use... an AR would be a better choice for that (as well as a home defense rifle), which is when I use/carry my ARs. Just like the Smith .44mag "Backpacker", it should be carried often but shot little. A few hours of minor gunsmithing and a few bucks on repalcement parts and it's a pretty reliable light-use carbine. Within these limitations, and in the nitch of a pack or vehicle carbine, I think the Kel-tec is a fine choice.

Paradiddle
06-08-2007, 1:09 PM
I see it like this: Hi-Cap California Carbine choices are AR-neuters, Mini-14s or Keltecs. When the SHTF over Imigration (and it probably will) you might need to carry a slung rifle or at least have it available in your front seat:

With an AR neuter, I can guarentee you are going to be stopped by just about every LEO who see you with it. You might make it through the first road block if the LEO's are in a good mood and you are an over 30 year old conservative looking citizen, but your chances aren't too good over the long run. Not to mention you'll be in the crosshairs of ever police sniper since you are carrying an AR.

With a Mini-14, you have a pretty good chance of keeping it at the road blocks and not getting lined up for very long in a SWAT officer's scope. Problem is that the magazines are pretty unreliable, un-available, and lets face it, not many people stocked up on 30rd Ruger Factory Mags before the ban, like we did with AR Mags. For those of you who did stock up on reliable Mini mags before the ban, good on you! But for the majority of citizens, you're stuck with 10 rounders, which is a bad place to be in a public wiliding environment.

The Kel-tec is pretty well known to be legal (like the Mini) by LEOs, so their's a good chance you'll be able to keep it at the road blocks. Since it's a black rifle. it might get a little more notice than a wood stocked Mini, but probably not much unless you have a bunch of junk hanging off the aftermaket Picatiny rail forend. Since a lot of people have AR mags, it just makes sense for those that do, to go with a Kel-Tec as a Pack/Car gun.

Now, that's not to say that the Kel-Tec is a good choice for Three-gun, or regular range use... an AR would be a better choice for that (as well as a home defense rifle), which is when I use/carry my ARs. Just like the Smith .44mag "Backpacker", it should be carried often but shot little. A few hours of minor gunsmithing and a few bucks on repalcement parts and it's a pretty reliable light-use carbine. Within these limitations, and in the nitch of a pack or vehicle carbine, I think the Kel-tec is a fine choice.


This post is just amazing....

simonov
06-08-2007, 1:19 PM
This post is just amazing....

http://www.whofailedtoday.com/newbbs/img/smilies/tinfoilhat.gif

wewex
06-08-2007, 1:33 PM
http://aycu15.webshots.com/image/12574/2003193850046089546_rs.jpg

E Pluribus Unum
06-08-2007, 1:34 PM
Anyone know if there is a California-legal AR-15???:rolleyes:

Paradiddle
06-08-2007, 4:39 PM
Anyone know if there is a California-legal AR-15???:rolleyes:

2 weeks....

shark92651
06-08-2007, 5:09 PM
I would assume that if the SHTF situation is at the point where the citizens are carrying slung rifles and passing through police checkpoints while under cover of police snipers, that perhaps the cops will be a bit too preoccupied with the zombies (terrorists, mutants, or marauding packs of rabid demon posessed chihuahuas) to worry about my Monsterman grip or Bullet Button.

But interesting post, no doubt ;)

I see it like this: Hi-Cap California Carbine choices are AR-neuters, Mini-14s or Keltecs. When the SHTF over Imigration (and it probably will) you might need to carry a slung rifle or at least have it available in your front seat:

With an AR neuter, I can guarentee you are going to be stopped by just about every LEO who see you with it. You might make it through the first road block if the LEO's are in a good mood and you are an over 30 year old conservative looking citizen, but your chances aren't too good over the long run. Not to mention you'll be in the crosshairs of ever police sniper since you are carrying an AR.

With a Mini-14, you have a pretty good chance of keeping it at the road blocks and not getting lined up for very long in a SWAT officer's scope. Problem is that the magazines are pretty unreliable, un-available, and lets face it, not many people stocked up on 30rd Ruger Factory Mags before the ban, like we did with AR Mags. For those of you who did stock up on reliable Mini mags before the ban, good on you! But for the majority of citizens, you're stuck with 10 rounders, which is a bad place to be in a public wiliding environment.

The Kel-tec is pretty well known to be legal (like the Mini) by LEOs, so their's a good chance you'll be able to keep it at the road blocks. Since it's a black rifle. it might get a little more notice than a wood stocked Mini, but probably not much unless you have a bunch of junk hanging off the aftermaket Picatiny rail forend. Since a lot of people have AR mags, it just makes sense for those that do, to go with a Kel-Tec as a Pack/Car gun.

Now, that's not to say that the Kel-Tec is a good choice for Three-gun, or regular range use... an AR would be a better choice for that (as well as a home defense rifle), which is when I use/carry my ARs. Just like the Smith .44mag "Backpacker", it should be carried often but shot little. A few hours of minor gunsmithing and a few bucks on repalcement parts and it's a pretty reliable light-use carbine. Within these limitations, and in the nitch of a pack or vehicle carbine, I think the Kel-tec is a fine choice.

randycinsc
08-03-2007, 5:00 PM
Someone please help me identify the bipod and front end flash suppressor or muzzle break on post #67, from months ago. Also, anyone that could help me with the ID for the handguards..... I'd really appreciate it!!!!!

randycinsc
randycinsc@comcast.net

E Pluribus Unum
08-03-2007, 6:15 PM
Someone please help me identify the bipod and front end flash suppressor or muzzle break on post #67, from months ago. Also, anyone that could help me with the ID for the handguards..... I'd really appreciate it!!!!!

randycinsc
randycinsc@comcast.net

Just buy an AR.... thats what all the stuff is... and an AR is cheaper.

mark3lb
08-10-2007, 6:29 PM
Someone please help me identify the bipod and front end flash suppressor or muzzle break on post #67, from months ago. Also, anyone that could help me with the ID for the handguards..... I'd really appreciate it!!!!!

randycinsc
randycinsc@comcast.net


muzzle brake, not flash suppressor. Ten Percent sells them for $35 and they're AWB compliant.

http://www.tenpercentfirearms.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4&products_id=80

metalhead357
08-10-2007, 6:47 PM
Acccccck! WHY are we still talking about this??????????:confused: Dead thread resurrected!!!!!!!!!! Acccccck!!!!!:p