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View Full Version : You're in Libya...FAL or AK?


berg
10-15-2011, 5:18 PM
Tomorrow you wake up in Libya and have to fight your way out. There are two crates of rifles and ammo by the door, one with AKs the other with FALs. Which do you grab to make your way home?

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/080O3VpgnM8AF/610x.jpg
Libyan fighters gather at the frontline on the eastern outskirts of Sirte on October 6, 2011 during intense fighting that raged after forces loyal to Moamer Kadhafi tried to break a siege of the ousted strongman's hometown by fighters loyal to Libya's new regime.
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/02iI55O5Dx3W2/610x.jpg
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/03qP5xn6qh6oW/610x.jpg
Degtyarev!
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/02Y7dvM9mD9VO/610x.jpg

bob7122
10-15-2011, 5:20 PM
FN FAL for most things, and then carry on my back a folding stock ak because i can :)

berg
10-15-2011, 5:20 PM
Just a reminder. AK's have a 16" barrel, 30 round mags, and fire 7.62x39. FAL's have a 21" barrel, sights more suited to better accuracy, 20 round mags, and fire 7.62x51. The FAL is heavier and louder with the muzzle brake, but they hit harder and farther out.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0fpT8EM5Mq96T/x610.jpg
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/02p42sA8kT5KT/610x.jpg

berg
10-15-2011, 5:25 PM
Bonus points for using your sights

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/00VpbQZ2ZQ29e/610x.jpg
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/03TE5xs19mg7O/610x.jpg
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0fkXbIi8yHbfr/x610.jpg

acaligunner
10-15-2011, 5:34 PM
AK

1) More controllable in semi-full auto

2) More reliable

3) Probably more ammo, magazines around the battlefield

4) Fighting in Urban cities, the AK is shorter than the broomstick, making it easier to maneuver around doorways, etc.

5) More higher capacity 20 vs 30-75, you can also clamp the mags together.

6 Easier to carry, less weight

7) The 7.62x39 works

acg

Leadmaster
10-15-2011, 5:55 PM
FAL, just because i want the power of a .308 :D

223556
10-15-2011, 5:56 PM
Id say AK, I think I has to be one the most easiest rifles to use if your not familiar with rifles in general.

Verci0013
10-15-2011, 6:13 PM
Guitar

http://i54.tinypic.com/11c6yv4.jpg


seriously though...I'd grab an AK

Gio
10-15-2011, 6:14 PM
One of each :43: But if push comes to shove I will grab an AK :)

Ergo the Qualmed
10-15-2011, 6:29 PM
FAL, just because i reallllyyyy hate the short stock AK...stocks...

IntoForever
10-15-2011, 6:34 PM
Since I know nothing about FAL's I'd grab an AK. Hell, I probably wouldn't know an FAL if it was in front of me.

greybeard
10-15-2011, 6:35 PM
AK if I am walking out. Lighter carry more ammo

robcoe
10-15-2011, 6:44 PM
AK, lighter so I can run the hell out of there faster.

warbird
10-15-2011, 6:48 PM
I'll take the FAL even if it is heavier. I am used to it and you should go with what you are used to. Both are good weapons it comes down to personal choice. Besides if I ever find myself in that situation i just might stick around and help out since the FAL reaches out and taps people better at long range.

Joe
10-15-2011, 6:52 PM
FAL

Turo
10-15-2011, 7:00 PM
AK for sure. More ammo per magazine, lighter overall package, and cheaper/more prevalent ammunition.

I don't need 1 MOA accuracy out to 300 yards in war unless I'm acting in a sniping capacity, which I'm not good enough to do.

Ls1FALimpala
10-15-2011, 7:02 PM
FAL
more boom...

Army
10-15-2011, 7:33 PM
I don't need 1 MOA accuracy out to 300 yards in war ...
Correct!! I want 500yd, 1MOA accuracy so I don't have to let them get inside 300yds :D

FAL for the win :)

Kinsel83
10-15-2011, 7:34 PM
AK for sure.

FS00008
10-15-2011, 7:42 PM
FAL.

Sonic_mike
10-15-2011, 8:02 PM
Fal ftmfw!

Turo
10-15-2011, 8:03 PM
Correct!! I want 500yd, 1MOA accuracy so I don't have to let them get inside 300yds :D

FAL for the win :)

LOL okay, you win.

thedrickel
10-15-2011, 8:06 PM
Libya is sandy. I would take an inch FAL because they have sand cuts. Otherwise, AK.

Ishoot
10-15-2011, 8:08 PM
Shouldve polled this. :) AK if I'm on foot., otherwise FAL all the way. I like the .308 round.

Ubermcoupe
10-15-2011, 8:13 PM
I pick RPG.:51:

FAL
(I'll pick the AK up off the first guy I protect myself from)


3) Probably more ammo, magazines around the battlefield


Actually there are quite a few FALs out there, you would be surprised (I was).

berg
10-15-2011, 8:32 PM
Shouldve polled this. :) AK if I'm on foot., otherwise FAL all the way. I like the .308 round.

Good point. Poll added.

WileyWilly
10-15-2011, 8:35 PM
AK, Because it can be maintained with a rock and some dirt.

MrPlink
10-15-2011, 8:35 PM
One of each :43: But if push comes to shove I will grab an AK :)

put me down for this.

I would probably never make it home, because I would refuse to give up the guns and not be allowed back to the states!

cdtx2001
10-15-2011, 10:24 PM
fal

MrExel17
10-15-2011, 11:51 PM
+1 FAL

awall919
10-15-2011, 11:57 PM
+1 AK. Honestly though I could grab either one and wouldn't complain as long as the ammo held out.

Scratch705
10-16-2011, 12:03 AM
AK, cause i don't have enough shooting experience to even use the full capabilities of the FAL(longer range shots). so i'll more than likely keep engagements to 200 yards or less which is just right where AK's are good at.

mossy
10-16-2011, 12:18 AM
AK only because i am more familiar with it. i have never shot a FAL and would not know how to break it down and do maintenance. as for the AK, i know every inch of that rifle from constantly playing with my WASR, i could field strip that thing blindfolded if i had to and use the blood of a fallen enemy as lubrication :p

acaligunner
10-16-2011, 12:33 AM
Libya is sandy. I would take an inch FAL because they have sand cuts. Otherwise, AK.


Just to throw a monkey in the ointment, here is what the Israeli's found out about the FN/FAL during the 6 day war. If the sand cuts helped out the FN, fine, just quoting this from Wiki, and the book 'Small arms of the World'.


" The Israeli FAL first saw action in relatively small quantities during the Suez Crisis of 1956, and by the Six-Day War in June 1967, it was the standard Israeli rifle. During the Yom Kippur War of October 1973 it was still in front-line service as the standard Israeli rifle, though increasing criticism eventually led to the phasing-out of the weapon. Israeli forces were primarily mechanized in nature; the long, heavy FAL slowed deployment drills, and proved exceedingly difficult to manoeuvre within the confines of a vehicle.[13][14] Additionally, Israeli forces experienced repeated jamming of the FAL due to heavy sand and dust ingress endemic to Middle Eastern desert warfare, requiring repeated field-stripping and cleaning of the rifle, sometimes while under fire.[14] During the later stages of the Yom Kippur War, it was noted that some Israeli soldiers had informally exchanged their FALs for Soviet Kalashnikov AK-47 assault rifles taken from dead and captured Arab soldiers. Though the IDF evaluated a few modified FAL rifles with 'sand clearance' slots in the bolt carrier and receiver (which were already part of the Commonwealth L1A1/C1A1 design), malfunction rates did not significantly improve.[15] The Israeli FAL was eventually replaced by the M16 and the Galil (a weapon using the Soviet Kalashnikov operating system, and chambered in either 5.56x45 or 7.62 NATO),[14][15] though the FAL remained in production in Israel until at least 1981 "

But then again the Israeli's may be a little hard on their weapons. That is why they developed the Galil, My brother has one, and tho it is heavy, I think it's one of the better rifles out there.

Remember I don't have anything against the FN, I also have a SAR FN, in another state, I like them.

acaligunner

jimmykan
10-16-2011, 12:35 AM
What kind of accuracy can be expected of "crate-grade" FALs?

1 MOA, seriously? With iron sights? We're not talking some sort of High Power National Match version of the FAL with free float handguard tube.

Once at a Chabot multi-gun 200 yard rifle match, joelogic shot his FAL with iron sights, and he ran out of ammo before he could hit all the IPSC C-zone targets. And he's a good shot.

On the other hand, there were a few AK shooters who cleared the stages with time to spare.

Just saying...

acaligunner
10-16-2011, 12:38 AM
^

The FN has a very heavy trigger, (at least on my), and the sights suffer somewhat. It is a nice firearm, just took me some time to get use to it.

acg

novalondon
10-16-2011, 1:46 AM
Since I have a shop full of FALs and no AKs I guess a FAL as it will reach out farther, hit you harder and the rounds weight about the same when your lugging them around.

berg
10-16-2011, 8:57 AM
For the record, a FAL is very easy to learn to use and is actually quicker to field strip. You just push a little lever on the left rear of the receiver and the upper half pops open. Then you slide out the bolt assembly and the receiver cover.

The safety lever is also easier to use as it is similar to feel and position as on the AR.

If I needed to get down this street and several enemy shooters were sniping at me from those buildings, a FAL would probably be better suited for accurately engaging an enemy behind cover.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0eX17v3b6bbmj/610x.jpg
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0ew6cZAgqY68L/610x.jpg

But if I were in a vehicle or had to clear buildings, the AK would be great due to its ease of maneuverability and higher volume of fire.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/01sbg2la3fcUy/610x.jpg
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/06P63T04SWfm7/610x.jpg

This guy has a nice solution. An AK with a scope for accurate shots and a drum for volume of fire.
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/04Okg3t6Gt5aS/610x.jpg

BajaJames83
10-16-2011, 9:11 AM
Fal,

SureShot241
10-16-2011, 9:59 AM
Ak

-Suited better for urban combat
-More ammo around the field (big plus to use their own ammo against them, plus use their mags)
-Less recoil means better follow up shots
-Have full auto option for support fire

thedrickel
10-16-2011, 10:37 AM
OK, how about a para FAL with sand cuts ;)

smashycrashy
10-16-2011, 10:47 AM
Why isn't a ZSU-23-2 on the back of a toyota one of the choices? They seem about as common as AK's and FAL's in Libya.

Cuerno_de_Chivo
10-16-2011, 10:50 AM
If its mostly urban fighting than an AK without a doubt. The FAL seems so clunky and big, idk i don't like it but if i had no choice of course i wouldnt complain. But definitely an AK. An enemy will go down with one round of 7.62x39 placed right, i don't need the extra weight of a 308 to do the job.

esartori
10-16-2011, 12:05 PM
i say ak due to ammo availability

NapaPlinker
10-16-2011, 12:23 PM
AK all the way. I can disassemble my sgl blindfolded.

Lone_Gunman
10-16-2011, 12:33 PM
OK, how about a para FAL with sand cuts ;)

Yup. Exactly what I was thinking. That's my choice, with an aimpoint and 3x magnifier too.

jpballa
10-16-2011, 3:44 PM
i like the ak
but i'll take the right hand of the free world

m98
10-16-2011, 3:52 PM
Ak ftw........ The fal is wayyyy toooo heavy and with 308 ammo its just wayyy to heavy to hump it back home without using too much energy. The ak is horrible in accuracy but so is the fal too. The fal isn't by any means that much more accurate as the ak.

whlgun
10-16-2011, 3:53 PM
I doubt the fal's there running are 1 moa.

Ill take the reliable AK. I just personally have more experience with the ak.

hammerhands32
10-16-2011, 7:13 PM
Fal, because I'm big and clunky plus I don't work that well when sand gets in my crack either.

jyo
10-17-2011, 4:32 PM
I gotta go with the FAL---but then again, either would probably do the trick (in trained hands). Oh, and yes, the FAL is much more accurate than the AK.

San FranPsycho
10-17-2011, 10:47 PM
more like, those pink sandals or that guys guitar??:confused:

Norsemen308
10-17-2011, 10:58 PM
The one and done theory is Invalid.

Ill start with an FAL for accuracy... But after i'd punched tickets for a few allah followers, I would carry the Ak for porch duty, and the FAL for when you gotta reach out and touch someone..

norcal77
10-17-2011, 11:13 PM
I'd take the AK myself, I used to have a PTR91 which I think is based on the FAL (correct me if I'm wrong). I didn't like it much, accurate and all but I hated the left hand charging handle. Not sure what the spray and pray means, my AK is pretty accurate as far as I'll ever need it.

dalriaden
10-18-2011, 12:15 AM
Ak uses sand for lubricant, be able to engage threats faster then the fal, and higher round count means more dead targets or rounds down range for suppression.

mrlonewolf
10-18-2011, 12:44 AM
Thanks for posting the pics.

Nice AK 47s & 74s; fixed & Underolder stocks; Bulgy's, Polish and perhaps one egyptian.

Nice FAL's; Imbels, STGs and L1A1s ( can't really tell if it's a Rhodesian).

I'll take them both... :43:

Colt-45
10-18-2011, 1:17 AM
Tough decision. I'll take the FAL :43: If it doesn't work out I could always pick up an AK.

rg_1111@yahoo.com
10-18-2011, 3:38 AM
I like the Para FAL.

stix213
10-18-2011, 3:42 AM
If a woke up in Libya, I'm not a part of an organized force. So I won't be focused on long range hits, and I will want to stay lighter so I can get the hell out of there ASAP. Lighter both in firearm and in ammo.

While not necessarily a light weapon, between the two choices the smaller AK with its lighter ammo wins out. I can carry more ammo for less weight, with as reliable of a firearm as ever created.

Vanguard
10-18-2011, 7:53 AM
I voted Ak. Reliable, lighter, less recoil, larger mag capacity, more ammo and parts readily available on the battlefield.

voiceofreason
10-18-2011, 7:58 AM
FAL

I can always pick up an AK from the guy I just killed with my FAL.

RobGR
10-18-2011, 11:10 AM
Desert sand, I'll take an AK.

The Israelis got rid of their FALs and developed the Galil, as we all know it was based off of the AK platform and it's loose tolerances. That pretty much sums it up for me.

Full auto, FAL? Ah, nah, but even 7.62x39 full auto will be off center of mass on the second round at 100yrds. Don't quote me on that, never shot a full auto AK47, but that's what I saw on R. Lee Ermey's show when he did a comparison between a M-16 and AK47 shooting full auto at 25 yrds. The muzzle climb on the AK was ridiculous.

There have been a lot of snipers in Gaddafi's withdrawal, wonder what the snipers are using if we are talking one shot/one kill.

Deadbolt
10-18-2011, 11:44 AM
FAL. Just love the looks

sonnyt650
10-18-2011, 12:13 PM
A .308 can knock down those mud walls and whatever's behind them alot better than a x39. Is a .308 AK generally available or is that a rich country thing?

RobGR
10-18-2011, 1:09 PM
7.62x39 is going to go through mud walls as well. 5.45x39, not so much.

Deadbolt
10-18-2011, 1:38 PM
7.62x39 is going to go through mud walls as well. 5.45x39, not so much.

this - the 7.62x39 i thought was shown to do better against cover than the 5.56 but the 5.56 was more accurate or something

/discoverychannelbalisticsexpert :o

Fadedline
10-18-2011, 2:16 PM
AK, because all it takes is some urine to clean it...lol

sonnyt650
10-18-2011, 4:38 PM
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62x51, to get up to 10Kg you can carry 14 M14 20 rd magazines totalling 280 rounds versus 8 AK 30rd magazines totalling 240 rounds since the AK magazines are so much heavier than M14 magazines. I don't own any AKs so don't know myself: really??? :eek:

q3131a
10-19-2011, 6:48 AM
AK for me.

Do FALs come from any other manufacturers other than FN? Everyone agrees that AKs are sourced from all over the globe but who are the major suppliers for FAls?

Just as those pics show, FALs are just as likely to show up in a foreign conflict just as the AK is.

windrunner
10-19-2011, 7:13 AM
Shoes..................definitely choosing shoes.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/080O3VpgnM8AF/610x.jpg

zonzin
10-19-2011, 7:18 AM
Dang,, those are some serious SHTF pictures of the turmoil over there. I pray it never ends up that way here.



.

Andy Taylor
10-19-2011, 7:23 AM
AK, no question.
1. I am more familiar with it. (this is the most important reason)
2. The AK is probably the most reliable semi/full firearm in the world.
3. I am trying to get the heck out of there, I doubt I will need to snipe.
4. Can carry more ammo in larger mags.
5. Easier to maneuver in tight spots.

Mikhail Kalashnikov was the John Browning of the Eastern Block.

Dirtbiker
10-19-2011, 7:30 AM
Shoes..................definitely choosing shoes.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/080O3VpgnM8AF/610x.jpg

"8 million terrorists in the world and I have to kill one with feet smaller than my sister's."

Javi
10-19-2011, 9:18 AM
AK for me.

Do FALs come from any other manufacturers other than FN? Everyone agrees that AKs are sourced from all over the globe but who are the major suppliers for FAls?

Just as those pics show, FALs are just as likely to show up in a foreign conflict just as the AK is.

DSA puts them together:

http://www.dsarms.com/SA58-FAL-Standard-Rifle-308-Cal----SA58STD/productinfo/SA58STD/

Colt-45
10-19-2011, 9:52 AM
FAL

I can always pick up an AK from the guy I just killed with my FAL.

Since there's always so many of them lying around from the dead guys,
:iagree:

glockman19
10-19-2011, 10:05 AM
Galil

Wnick308
10-19-2011, 11:28 AM
I'll take a FAL because I like .308

ArkinDomino
10-19-2011, 11:37 AM
Since all the thoughtful answers have been said...

If I were to wake up in Libya I'd go out with my gold deagle with 7 clips (that's right! Clips!) and go camp around the spawn to nail some head shots.

RobGR
10-19-2011, 1:10 PM
Dang,, those are some serious SHTF pictures of the turmoil over there. I pray it never ends up that way here.

Agreed. You should see the videos of the rebels feeding captured Gaddafi soldiers dead dog.... I feel bad for those guys, like being a Georgian captured by the Russians, you've just entered a world a hurt and you're probably dead. It happened here during the Civil War, POW camps on both sides were horrific and it was well documented.

List of Rebel equipment -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Liberation_Army_%28Libya%29#Equipment

ocmsrzr
10-19-2011, 1:24 PM
I'd use my FAL to get a PKM.

morfeeis
10-19-2011, 3:49 PM
AK, it will never fail and finding ammo for it will be no problem....

thedrickel
10-19-2011, 5:34 PM
AK for me.

Do FALs come from any other manufacturers other than FN? Everyone agrees that AKs are sourced from all over the globe but who are the major suppliers for FAls?

Just as those pics show, FALs are just as likely to show up in a foreign conflict just as the AK is.

Since the 50s, these countries have made their own:

Belgium
Austria
UK
Canada
Australia
South Africa
Brazil
Argentina
India



I may even be leaving out one or two . . . ? (H&R made a few for the US trials, but no major production #'s)

The ones in Africa are mostly South African, Brazilian, and the ones that have trickled down from Europe.

jigenax
10-19-2011, 6:25 PM
By going with this scenario, I'd grab an AK. While I love the FAL, I would use the more compact AK to get thur urban areas to find transport out of Libya. If I get a vehicle, I'd pick up a RPK to extend my reach. The choice of the RPK is due to interchangeable ammo and magazines. I'd also add a RPG just cuz I love big booms.

El Larry
10-19-2011, 6:48 PM
FAL for sure, I have a .308 and love it!!!!!

Changalang
10-19-2011, 7:20 PM
AK

1) More controllable in semi-full auto

2) More reliable

3) Probably more ammo, magazines around the battlefield

4) Fighting in Urban cities, the AK is shorter than the broomstick, making it easier to maneuver around doorways, etc.

5) More higher capacity 20 vs 30-75, you can also clamp the mags together.

6 Easier to carry, less weight

7) The 7.62x39 works

acg

:29:

Bruceisontarget
10-20-2011, 3:07 PM
Put me down with an AK... more familiar, more ammo and more mags. Also much lighter when scootin for cover.

Cruznegao
10-20-2011, 3:16 PM
FAL
Just because the votes were 81 to 80 and I wanted to tie...
Now seriously, I'd take the FAL. Where elsewould you be able to shoot thT many .308 without braking the piggy bank?

ns3v3n
10-20-2011, 3:31 PM
FAL
Just because the votes were 81 to 80 and I wanted to tie...
Now seriously, I'd take the FAL. Where elsewould you be able to shoot thT many .308 without braking the piggy bank?

It's 82 -81 now haha. AK ftw.

gatesbox
10-20-2011, 3:33 PM
I can't believe this poll has been running dead nutz even since it started.....crazy train...