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FiveSeven
10-15-2011, 9:35 AM
The video is in Russian (of course).
In the beginning, they're doing test to see if 5.45 deflects after passing trough think bushes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOv-oy8Eq6I&feature=related


Take it for what's it worth. Was it staged? Who knows, they state that it was, open/public and Internationally observed tests.

Earlier in the video one of the "experts" talk about the two. M16 has a longer sight distance and peep sight, it make is more accurate in single shot mode than AK 74. 5.45 also has a milder recoil than 5.65
AK has open shorter sight radius which makes faster target acquisition and better in full auto.

The test comparison starts at 5:30
In after water submerged AK fired without problems.
M16 fired only once. Internal Deformation occurred.

Dust test
AK fired normally.
M16 was able to shot in single shot and only with the help of forward assist.

1 meter concrete drop test.
AK passed this test as well.
M16 had a multifunction due to deformed magazine.

Armour perforation.
AK penetrated 6.5mm steel
M16 left only dimples.
(they don't say what ammo)











:hide:

fredieusa
10-15-2011, 9:45 AM
At about 2:25, the guy is firing a T2. Very cool video. Thanks for posting.

Here is another test. But its the AKM vs the M16. the 762 totally rules.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuwR4LLvoc4&list=PL31062366250D4CF4&index=22

chicoredneck
10-15-2011, 9:59 AM
I did not watch the video, but read your summary. I own both a '74 and an ar15. I have had jams with both and both were a fault of the magazine, not the rifle.

I have shot thousands of rounds of russian surplus 5.45 and another thousand rounds of wolf 70gr. I have shot thousands of rounds of 5.56/223 through my ar15 of various weights and manufacture. I can tell you that in my observations, under 150 yards military surplus 62gr ammo penetrates steel better than any other 5.56 ammo or 5.45 ammo I have tested. Over 150 yards the 5.45 and 5.56 ammo functioned similarly, with a slight edge to the 5.56. On non-metal targets 55gr xm193 5.56 penetrates better than the steel core 62gr and the 5.45 ammo. All of this ammo was fired from 16" barrels.

The AK74 muzzel break is extremely effective at reducing recoil and muzzel climb. The AR15's birdcage flash hider not so much.

When engaing moving targets the AK74 points more naturally for me and the open sights make it easier to lead your target. The Ar15's peep sight is very dificult to use on a moving target and obscures the target.

My Ar15 is very accurate, more so than the ak74, but the AK74 is still more accurate than most would give it credit.

Military surlus 5.56 ammo litterally blows huge holes in critters. The russian 5.45 ice picks and has a tendancy to veer off course once it hits something.

The Ak74 is more controllable in rapid fire, but with a slight side to side sway. The Ar15 with the traditional birdcage flash hider has signifficantly more recoil and muzzel climb than the Ak74, but less side to side sway. It is faster to get back on target with the Ak74, mainly due to it's reduced muzzel climb and open sights. A different muzzel break on the AR may change this somewhat.

My observations gained through extensive shooting sessions in the Nevada desert.

ElvenSoul
10-15-2011, 10:19 AM
Oh I hate to say it but after Billions of Dollars and 40yrs of development the M16/AR15's have almost caught up to the AK's. These days I would not hesitate to take either one into battle.

Josh3239
10-15-2011, 10:44 AM
It was a Russian test, big surprise. Especially given their history of propaganda. Maybe while were at it we can hire the Cuban government to do a study of Communism vs Capitalism.

Oh I hate to say it but after Billions of Dollars and 40yrs of development the M16/AR15's have almost caught up to the AK's. These days I would not hesitate to take either one into battle.

Almost caught? Try far surpassed. There would be no question of the AR's reliability if it hadn't had a short period of problems during Vietnam. Despite the fact that this was the A1 model, despite the fact it was an extremely short period of trouble, despite the fact the A1 is long since dead, despite the fact that the round components were fixed, despite the fact that the majority of Vietnam vets had zero trouble with their rifle, despite the fact that the AR is universally loved my US troops, foreign troops, hunters, competition shooters, recreational shooters and despite the fact that every single bit of that incident was over 40 years ago people still cling to it. It is like saying planes are unsafe because the Wright brothers crashed theirs. Different times, different models, different everything.

The fact remains the AK does nothing better than the AR. Yep, I said it. The 5.56mm is overall superior to the 5.45mm and the 7.62x39. You believe those rounds are death ray? Tell that to Patrick Purdy, Larry Phillips Jr, and Emil Matasareu. The AR is far more accurate. Ergonomically superior. Far more modular. The aftermarket parts are coming out everyday. Reliability problems? Did we not win every single battle in Vietnam? Where were the complaints in Somalia? How about Iraq and Afghanistan? If it is so dreadful why did the Israelis ditch the AKs and Galils for it? Oh right we "made" them, well if you believe that garbage where are their complaints? American LE, doesn't seem to have any complaints. Do you know any competition shooters complaining that their AR stops too often in the middle of matches? Bottom line if you are still playing the reliability record, consider joining us in the 21st century where the AR is reliable, and you can actually change a buttstock or mount a scope in less than 1 minute without disassembling other parts of the rifle. The AK is the pretty much the same as the original late 1940's model that was adopted by the USSR, the AR is not. It is had been updated and stayed with the times.

MrPlink
10-15-2011, 12:01 PM
Ar vs ak? What a new idea! Cant believe we never discussed it yet!

DK9mm
10-15-2011, 1:03 PM
Cool, thanks for posting....

someR1
10-15-2011, 1:10 PM
It was a Russian test, big surprise. Especially given their history of propaganda. Maybe while were at it we can hire the Cuban government to do a study of Communism vs Capitalism.



Almost caught? Try far surpassed. There would be no question of the AR's reliability if it hadn't had a short period of problems during Vietnam. Despite the fact that this was the A1 model, despite the fact it was an extremely short period of trouble, despite the fact the A1 is long since dead, despite the fact that the round components were fixed, despite the fact that the majority of Vietnam vets had zero trouble with their rifle, despite the fact that the AR is universally loved my US troops, foreign troops, hunters, competition shooters, recreational shooters and despite the fact that every single bit of that incident was over 40 years ago people still cling to it. It is like saying planes are unsafe because the Wright brothers crashed theirs. Different times, different models, different everything.

The fact remains the AK does nothing better than the AR. Yep, I said it. The 5.56mm is overall superior to the 5.45mm and the 7.62x39. You believe those rounds are death ray? Tell that to Patrick Purdy, Larry Phillips Jr, and Emil Matasareu. The AR is far more accurate. Ergonomically superior. Far more modular. The aftermarket parts are coming out everyday. Reliability problems? Did we not win every single battle in Vietnam? Where were the complaints in Somalia? How about Iraq and Afghanistan? If it is so dreadful why did the Israelis ditch the AKs and Galils for it? Oh right we "made" them, well if you believe that garbage where are their complaints? American LE, doesn't seem to have any complaints. Do you know any competition shooters complaining that their AR stops too often in the middle of matches? Bottom line if you are still playing the reliability record, consider joining us in the 21st century where the AR is reliable, and you can actually change a buttstock or mount a scope in less than 1 minute without disassembling other parts of the rifle. The AK is the pretty much the same as the original late 1940's model that was adopted by the USSR, the AR is not. It is had been updated and stayed with the times.

Are you kidding me dude? I have marine buddies that HATE the m16 because dust storms EASILY cause them to malfunction. Bury an AK and a m16 in the dirt then fire them. I guarantee the AK will perform without malfunction. There are too many parts in the m16. More parts= more chance of failure. The AK is more robust hands down. Don't get me wrong, I own both weapons and love them both equally, but I know for a fact the AK will take a beating, and the m16 will not.

whlgun
10-15-2011, 1:13 PM
How old is this video?

bohoki
10-15-2011, 1:23 PM
pretty neat although that ah94 is kind of dumb

Cuerno_de_Chivo
10-15-2011, 1:36 PM
The AR isn't more accurate, it's just more precise. I think people Mistake "accuracy" with PRECISION. Big difference IMO.

ElvenSoul
10-15-2011, 1:42 PM
It was a Russian test, big surprise. Especially given their history of propaganda. Maybe while were at it we can hire the Cuban government to do a study of Communism vs Capitalism.



Almost caught? Try far surpassed. There would be no question of the AR's reliability if it hadn't had a short period of problems during Vietnam. Despite the fact that this was the A1 model, despite the fact it was an extremely short period of trouble, despite the fact the A1 is long since dead, despite the fact that the round components were fixed, despite the fact that the majority of Vietnam vets had zero trouble with their rifle, despite the fact that the AR is universally loved my US troops, foreign troops, hunters, competition shooters, recreational shooters and despite the fact that every single bit of that incident was over 40 years ago people still cling to it. It is like saying planes are unsafe because the Wright brothers crashed theirs. Different times, different models, different everything.

The fact remains the AK does nothing better than the AR. Yep, I said it. The 5.56mm is overall superior to the 5.45mm and the 7.62x39. You believe those rounds are death ray? Tell that to Patrick Purdy, Larry Phillips Jr, and Emil Matasareu. The AR is far more accurate. Ergonomically superior. Far more modular. The aftermarket parts are coming out everyday. Reliability problems? Did we not win every single battle in Vietnam? Where were the complaints in Somalia? How about Iraq and Afghanistan? If it is so dreadful why did the Israelis ditch the AKs and Galils for it? Oh right we "made" them, well if you believe that garbage where are their complaints? American LE, doesn't seem to have any complaints. Do you know any competition shooters complaining that their AR stops too often in the middle of matches? Bottom line if you are still playing the reliability record, consider joining us in the 21st century where the AR is reliable, and you can actually change a buttstock or mount a scope in less than 1 minute without disassembling other parts of the rifle. The AK is the pretty much the same as the original late 1940's model that was adopted by the USSR, the AR is not. It is had been updated and stayed with the times.


You do know of the AR's many PROBLEMS in the Sand Box right?

Merc1138
10-15-2011, 1:44 PM
That AH94 looks absolutely ridiculous. I'm guessing they had to make the barrel pencil thin otherwise the reciprocating mass would be ridiculous, but instead now they have a barrel that whips around like a spaghetti noodle.

The gas system on the rifle at the 10 minute mark looks kinda neat, having that additional mass traveling in the opposite direction of the bolt so they don't rely on a muzzle device redirecting gas for braking.

Here's another part of that show about russian pistols: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfm1cwJOfaw

There are also others about machine guns and stuff when you check out the related videos over on the right. It's funny, but everything from the animations, the experts sitting in a chair discussing the weapons, all reminds me of the historical gun shows on Discovery from a few years back(before they were a reality tv station).

someR1
10-15-2011, 1:50 PM
You do know of the AR's many PROBLEMS in the Sand Box right?
no, he doesn't understand.

someR1
10-15-2011, 1:52 PM
really, we are comparing apples to oranges here.

Merc1138
10-15-2011, 2:37 PM
really, we are comparing apples to oranges here.

More like apples to potatoes.

Ruiner
10-15-2011, 2:44 PM
Are you kidding me dude? I have marine buddies that HATE the m16 because dust storms EASILY cause them to malfunction. Bury an AK and a m16 in the dirt then fire them. I guarantee the AK will perform without malfunction. There are too many parts in the m16. More parts= more chance of failure. The AK is more robust hands down. Don't get me wrong, I own both weapons and love them both equally, but I know for a fact the AK will take a beating, and the m16 will not.

I also own both and have a great deal of respect for each platform. There are several design differences that make the AK more reliable and the AR more precise. However, there are a couple of issues with your argument: 1. The AR and the AK have a similar amount of parts that are critical to their operation. 2. If you were to bury them both in dirt, there is a gigantic gap in the AK's dust cover where dirt can get into the action. I can pretty much guarantee it wouldn't function either unless that is cleared.

xxINKxx
11-06-2011, 11:02 AM
I like the part in the video where the russians were charging forward and shooting from the hip!

Mamluke
11-06-2011, 11:04 AM
I did not watch the video, but read your summary. I own both a '74 and an ar15. I have had jams with both and both were a fault of the magazine, not the rifle.

I have shot thousands of rounds of russian surplus 5.45 and another thousand rounds of wolf 70gr. I have shot thousands of rounds of 5.56/223 through my ar15 of various weights and manufacture. I can tell you that in my observations, under 150 yards military surplus 62gr ammo penetrates steel better than any other 5.56 ammo or 5.45 ammo I have tested. Over 150 yards the 5.45 and 5.56 ammo functioned similarly, with a slight edge to the 5.56. On non-metal targets 55gr xm193 5.56 penetrates better than the steel core 62gr and the 5.45 ammo. All of this ammo was fired from 16" barrels.

The AK74 muzzel break is extremely effective at reducing recoil and muzzel climb. The AR15's birdcage flash hider not so much.

When engaing moving targets the AK74 points more naturally for me and the open sights make it easier to lead your target. The Ar15's peep sight is very dificult to use on a moving target and obscures the target.

My Ar15 is very accurate, more so than the ak74, but the AK74 is still more accurate than most would give it credit.

Military surlus 5.56 ammo litterally blows huge holes in critters. The russian 5.45 ice picks and has a tendancy to veer off course once it hits something.

The Ak74 is more controllable in rapid fire, but with a slight side to side sway. The Ar15 with the traditional birdcage flash hider has signifficantly more recoil and muzzel climb than the Ak74, but less side to side sway. It is faster to get back on target with the Ak74, mainly due to it's reduced muzzel climb and open sights. A different muzzel break on the AR may change this somewhat.

My observations gained through extensive shooting sessions in the Nevada desert.

Wow, some of the best feedback I've read in a long time. Great observation!

ChaneRZ
11-06-2011, 11:11 AM
I've seen this also at Spike's Deadliest Warrior where they compared an M16 and AK 47. They put sand on both and AR jammed.

starsnuffer
11-06-2011, 11:19 AM
This is like watching a video comparing a '74 Pinto to a '75 Pacer.

-W

1lostinspace
11-06-2011, 11:22 AM
I have my AK as a survival type gun, they will work and work no matter the weather or what is happening. My AR I use for medium range to be able to hit head size targets out to 600 meters+ They both have strengths and weaknesses. You could have an American test where targets are set up further away and see the M16 dominate the competition.

FatalKitty
11-06-2011, 11:23 AM
More like apples to potatoes.

+1


I do, however, want an AK74 now :)

1lostinspace
11-06-2011, 11:26 AM
+1


I do, however, want an AK74 now :)

Yeah but the M16 should work coming out of water and have run with sand and dirt in it.

NorCalK9.com
11-06-2011, 11:27 AM
I'd take the ak74 anyday over an AR! Bury each in the dirt for 5 years unbury them pour motor oil in n out rack and shoot which is PROVEN to work?

acaligunner
11-06-2011, 11:32 AM
Good info

acaligunner

acaligunner
11-06-2011, 11:47 AM
Here's my brother in Viet Nam with the AK-47. This was the weapon he used while he did his 2 combat tours with an Airborne division. He liked the M16, but favored the AK-47.

By the way, the AK was taken off a sapper that popped out of a spider hole, and engaged my brother at 10 feet. The AK jammed and the M16 worked. He used it as his good luck charm. That's what he told me.

110611121654.jpg

circa 1968-69

acaligunner

zfields
11-06-2011, 12:01 PM
Here's my brother in Viet Nam with the AK-47. This was the weapon he used while he did his 2 combat tours with an Airborne division. He liked the M16, but favored the AK-47.

By the way, the AK was taken off a sapper that popped out of a spider hole, and engaged my brother at 10 feet. The AK jammed and the M16 worked. He used it as his good luck charm. That's what he told me.

110611121654.jpg

circa 1968-69

acaligunner

very cool, thaks for posting.

acaligunner
11-06-2011, 12:01 PM
Here's my Brother with his group of combat Airborne soldiers, with the M16. He's to the R of the tall soldier. The M16 worked but needed regular cleaning. He often times switched between weapons (AK/M16/Grenade launcher).

It worked and saved his life multiple times.

110611121915.jpg

acaligunner

1lostinspace
11-06-2011, 12:05 PM
The AK is far more reliable and the 74 is almost as accurate as the M16 is semi but in FA the 74 dominates but mainly due to the brake.

acaligunner
11-06-2011, 12:05 PM
very cool, thaks for posting.

Thank you!

acaligunner

NorCalK9.com
11-06-2011, 1:37 PM
Cmon you di guys know what your ar's can handle and cant handle. Lol.

vikingm03
11-06-2011, 2:17 PM
I prefer the ar15 platform. To each his own.

Standard
11-06-2011, 2:46 PM
I've had both. The AK74 is a lot more accurate than given credit for.
Both my AR and AK were hitting steel targets at 250+ yards without issue. If I'd benched them for groups, the AR surely would have been more precise, but for practical accuracy, there isn't much difference.
The AR is a lot more reliable than given credit for.
I've only had one AR jam on wolf ammo, and that was back when I was new to ARs and probably didn't lube it enough, not sure. All my other ARs have run basically flawlessly. My 74 is an excellent build and I don't expect that it will ever jam. It throws brass an inspiringly long distance :)
Both are excellent weapons and come down to preference and purpose.

pyro3k2
11-06-2011, 4:28 PM
Ar vs ak? What a new idea! Cant believe we never discussed it yet!

Either can I!!! I was just thinking about this and thought, "Wow, calguns will be blown away when I post this." But I see some one beat me to it.

chicoredneck
11-06-2011, 4:54 PM
What I find interesting is that the 62gr 5.56 ammo penetrates steel/metal better than lead core 55gr 5.56, but the 55gr ammo penetrates wood better. The 5.45 ammo has less penetration than either the 55gr or 62gr 5.56 on wood, but more penetration on live targets. I suspect it has something to do with the low density of steel compared to lead.

chead
11-06-2011, 5:14 PM
If I see this video get posted again I'm going to shoot myself with an AK and an AR at the same time to see which kills me first so we can settle this **** once and for all.

nicoroshi
11-06-2011, 5:37 PM
Own both, Love both (for different reasons, and different purposes).
Favor the AK platform heavily personally.
Accurate enough to do what I want it to, built to take a beating, and reliable.

Lone_Gunman
11-06-2011, 5:43 PM
Welllll- I sold my AR and bought an M1A so I could have 7.62 NATO power out to 800 yards, and I just bought a $299 5.45 Saiga so that I can shoot dirt cheap Russian surplus. I don't feel under gunned with this combo. To each his own.

hnoppenberger
11-06-2011, 6:12 PM
very good read. thank you.

An AR15 with a AK74 muzzle break will be ultimate then. I have to try that. Also i suspect the side sway on the AK is because of the heavy long stroke piston design of the gun operation, a minor trade off for other positives it provides. Cheers.

try the surefire brake, it looks ak inspired and works well.

m1a1driver
11-06-2011, 6:37 PM
haha I never thought to hold the front part of the sling while firing when the handguards get too hot to hold.. at 6:54

pacifico23
11-06-2011, 6:42 PM
I really wish there was a subtitiled video for this.

NorCalK9.com
11-06-2011, 8:15 PM
If anyone wants to bring out an di AR to my property we can redo these tests. I'll use my bulgarian ak74 n you use the AR we'll start with the water n go from there.

The SKS Man
11-06-2011, 8:41 PM
When SHTF there gonna be nothing left but AK's and Mosins.

AR will die out the first few months once the cleaning supplies go. Can you say jam fest 2000?

451040
11-06-2011, 8:44 PM
Bury each in the dirt for 5 years unbury them pour motor oil in n out rack and shoot which is PROVEN to work?

If I ever move to a third world s-hole, I will first purchase an AK pattern and a few crates of junk surplus ammo. When I arrive in said s-hole, I will then bury rifle and ammo in confidence. Thanks for the recommendation!







:rolleyes:

nanoc
11-06-2011, 9:08 PM
I was watching a documentary about Afghanistan and a soldier there was discussing a firefight, in which in a prolonged and intensive firefight two of their rifles jammed and they had to use the dead insurgence AK's. That should tell one how reliable what weapon system is in the sandbox. This doesn't stop me from loving AR's but I understand the limitations of the design.

Dhena81
11-06-2011, 11:41 PM
I know this will be a blow to the internet AK guys but as you can see the AK can fail and for all you people saying the AR jams in the sandbox or whatever how the hell do you know the opposing sides firearm doesn't ever jam? As you can plainly see the AK can and does jam.

The US military trains with their weapons so a M16 in our hands goes through a lot more abuse than some dumb *** insurgent that shoots 100 rounds a year through his AK. There's no doubt the AK is a great design there's no question, it's just the AR variants are not as bad as some of the internet claims you just need good mags and the right ammo.

CqRwx4wtmms

X7IGHWIMNE0

BoonieGhost
11-07-2011, 10:33 AM
When SHTF there gonna be nothing left but AK's and Mosins.

AR will die out the first few months once the cleaning supplies go. Can you say jam fest 2000?

^^THIS^^ You forgot the SKS though...

With the amount of money you have to put into a good AR to make it as HALF as reliable as the AK, you might as well buy 4 or 5 Saiga's for $299.00... I own an AR and have shot numerous AK's/Saiga and SKS platforms and I still prefer the AK...specially the 74...

Don't let your pride get in the way of your smarts...get over yourselves...This does not make you un-patriotic if you favor a foreign weapon platform over our domestic weapon platform! If it works, give it some credit! :facepalm:

If you want the best of both worlds, get a Saiga .223, do the AR Mag well or Galil conversion and call it a day...

HK35
11-07-2011, 2:07 PM
AR will die out the first few months once the cleaning supplies go. Can you say jam fest 2000?
Not necessarily true with piston driven ARs.

starsnuffer
11-07-2011, 2:33 PM
^^THIS^^ You forgot the SKS though...

With the amount of money you have to put into a good AR to make it as HALF as reliable as the AK, you might as well buy 4 or 5 Saiga's for $299.00... I own an AR and have shot numerous AK's/Saiga and SKS platforms and I still prefer the AK...specially the 74...

Don't let your pride get in the way of your smarts...get over yourselves...This does not make you un-patriotic if you favor a foreign weapon platform over our domestic weapon platform! If it works, give it some credit! :facepalm:

If you want the best of both worlds, get a Saiga .223, do the AR Mag well or Galil conversion and call it a day...

The only thing unpatriotic about the whole thing is the idea that there will be a need or desire to go out and shoot a crapload of people (ie other patriots of the planet earth) when "SHTF". I guess if that's your reason for owning a particular rifle, then more power to you. Products have been sold based on all kinds of irrational emotional states for years.

-W

BoonieGhost
11-07-2011, 2:35 PM
Not necessarily true with piston driven ARs.

I cannot speak firsthand about piston drivin AR's, but I did inquire about them once at a gunshop, and the guy behind the counter (I realize that most gunshop employees are idiots and only there for a paycheck) said that it didnt really add too much as far as reliability, but it made the gun a lot easier to clean. again, I have no firsthand knowledge...

themailman
11-07-2011, 2:52 PM
My Russian Made Saiga was a pos jammomatic. My BCM AR has never jammed. What?!

NorCalK9.com
11-07-2011, 3:30 PM
I know this will be a blow to the internet AK guys but as you can see the AK can fail and for all you people saying the AR jams in the sandbox or whatever how the hell do you know the opposing sides firearm doesn't ever jam? As you can plainly see the AK can and does jam.

The US military trains with their weapons so a M16 in our hands goes through a lot more abuse than some dumb *** insurgent that shoots 100 rounds a year through his AK. There's no doubt the AK is a great design there's no question, it's just the AR variants are not as bad as some of the internet claims you just need good mags and the right BE]
ok first off bud insurgents are only a small group of people that use ak's! Did you know theres many countries that arent even muslim that run ak's? Russia, bulgarians, yugos, polish, chinese, and so many many more, heck the sig 556 line is based off an ak. And when russia invaded afghanistan i'm sure they were shooting more than a hundred rounds a year. As well as many other conflicts the ak has been in. the AR has never seen as much battle as the ak has. Thank you n have a great day.
Btw I love my new AR

TheDeej
11-07-2011, 4:31 PM
I have an AR and a Saiga, both fun, but the Saiga is way more fun and cheaper to feed. Since I'm not going to war any time soon, that's good enough for me.

vikingm03
11-07-2011, 4:37 PM
ak fanboys are hilarious in their fanaticism :popcorn:

GM4spd
11-07-2011, 4:45 PM
Friends don't let friends use DI rifles;) Pete

I only use piston jobs(at least till Turners gets my Colt M4;)


http://www.fototime.com/0C167E5266FBE70/standard.jpg

NorCalK9.com
11-07-2011, 5:18 PM
ak fanboys are hilarious in their fanaticism :popcorn:

Actually ak people are usually realists.
AR guys are usually delusional. Lmao
Either way who cares. I nor anyone on here is going to volunteer to stand in front of any of the above rifles so the pount is moot.
I feel more secure with an ak74
You feel more secure with an AR15
I even know a guy who feels secure with a .22 pistol.
Each our own.
Agree to disagree.

acaligunner
11-07-2011, 5:46 PM
Not really important. In combat if your AK/AR doesn't work, you'll just zap the person who has what you need.

So the whole issue is not really important, as much as surviving in the first place.

?

acaligunner

FatalKitty
11-07-2011, 6:02 PM
ak fanboys are hilarious in their fanaticism :popcorn:

fixed

that's why they are fanboys.

I personally love both platforms because they BOTH have their pros and cons

david619
11-07-2011, 10:51 PM
How many Russian's own AR platform rifles vs America's who own AKs?

Dhena81
11-07-2011, 11:40 PM
ok first off bud insurgents are only a small group of people that use ak's! Did you know theres many countries that arent even muslim that run ak's? Russia, bulgarians, yugos, polish, chinese, and so many many more, heck the sig 556 line is based off an ak. And when russia invaded afghanistan i'm sure they were shooting more than a hundred rounds a year. As well as many other conflicts the ak has been in. the AR has never seen as much battle as the ak has. Thank you n have a great day.
Btw I love my new AR

Whatever you say pal :cool2: did you watch the videos?

I'm not questioning the AK's reliability I question the AR's supposed lack of reliability I think the individual needs to understand their weapon a little more being an AR owner to squeeze all the reliability out of the platform.

It's cool man your a Nor Cal Malinois AK guy I'm a So Cal GSD AR guy what we do have in common both our dogs bite :-)

NorCalK9.com
11-08-2011, 8:18 AM
Whatever you say pal :cool2: did you watch the videos?

I'm not questioning the AK's reliability I question the AR's supposed lack of reliability I think the individual needs to understand their weapon a little more being an AR owner to squeeze all the reliability out of the platform.

It's cool man your a Nor Cal Malinois AK guy I'm a So Cal GSD AR guy what we do have in common both our dogs bite :-)

Lmao dont do this. Oh I cant help it ak is to ar as malinois is to gsd lol but in all honesty I love em all gsd's n malinois that is. Where your gsd from?

ZX-10R
11-08-2011, 5:11 PM
AK accuracy is underrated. I have both and will take AK anytime.

Mamluke
11-08-2011, 7:13 PM
No modern assault rifle can match the M16 in the jungle, the rounds velocity & penetrating characteristic of its ballistics is far superior to the AK!

What happened in Vietnam was a political war, darn shame!

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nanoc
11-08-2011, 7:39 PM
^^ yea Mamluke you better hide behind that couch :p

Webologist
11-08-2011, 7:44 PM
I was watching a documentary about Afghanistan and a soldier there was discussing a firefight, in which in a prolonged and intensive firefight two of their rifles jammed and they had to use the dead insurgence AK's. That should tell one how reliable what weapon system is in the sandbox. This doesn't stop me from loving AR's but I understand the limitations of the design.

I was enjoying this thread but couldn't resist saying that this says more about the accuracy, deadliness and reload speed than reliability. They were dead insurgents...

NorCalK9.com
11-08-2011, 7:44 PM
Im lmfao on this one. But as long as you believe its all that matter.
No modern assault rifle can match the M16 in the jungle, the rounds velocity & penetrating characteristic of its ballistics is far superior to the AK!

What happened in Vietnam was a political war, darn shame!

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NorCalK9.com
11-08-2011, 7:46 PM
I was enjoying this thread but couldn't resist saying that this says more about the accuracy, deadliness and reload speed than reliability. They were dead insurgents...

Also remember most of those insurgents arent as trained as our marines.

nanoc
11-08-2011, 7:49 PM
Also remember most of those insurgents arent as trained as our marines.

^^ This! If they had the training our soldiers had we would be in trouble.

Code7inOaktown
11-08-2011, 9:30 PM
Can't we just agree -- the AR isn't as unreliable as you think it is, and the AK isn't as inaccurate as you think it is...sheesh...

goodlookin1
11-09-2011, 9:07 AM
The only differences affecting reliability between AK and AR are three things:

1) Piston vs Direct Impingement. Yes, I said it.
2) Case Dimensions
3) Magazines

#1 has been beaten to death. Both work, but Piston operated rifles need less maintenance...which in a pinch without cleaning = better reliability. This is why I put a piston in my AR and I havent had a hiccup since, and 1000's of rounds down the pipe.

#2 is a significant factor that i dont see argued very often. The AK case tapers in towards the neck much more than the .223/5.56, making the chambering of the round more reliable. If your chamber is all gunked up, it takes more pressure to shove the round all the way into the chamber for proper firing. This is one of the reasons the forward assist was included in the A1 version of the M16....to shove that round in so that it is properly in battery when the automatic action doesnt successfully do it (However, in my opinion, you should NEVER shove that round in to make it shoot....it's just dangerous and you are risking an out of battery explosion). The AK, on the other hand, is tapered and has a shorter case, making the insertion of the round into the chamber a much easier thing to do when it is all gunked up, hence the lack of need for a forward assist.

#3 has been discussed plenty as well, but usually the debate is between 2 AR mags, not an AR mag and an AK mag. Buying quality mags for either weapon helps tremendously, so assuming you have good quality mags, you can eliminate this from the equation.

17+1
11-09-2011, 11:22 AM
ak fanboys are hilarious in their fanaticism :popcorn:

There was a $10 cash prize for the first AK to come shoot one of the Sac matches...I think the offer still stands. Not that they could hit anything if they showed up. :p

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Bhobbs
11-09-2011, 11:27 AM
When SHTF there gonna be nothing left but AK's and Mosins.

AR will die out the first few months once the cleaning supplies go. Can you say jam fest 2000?

I'm sure the millions of M1 Garands and M14s will be running just fine.

Ruiner
11-09-2011, 11:40 AM
Can't we just agree -- the AR isn't as unreliable as you think it is, and the AK isn't as inaccurate as you think it is...sheesh...

No way!!! We all know that the AR will jam if you as much as look at it and the AK will keep firing even when it's out of ammo!! :eek:

Anyway, I agree. I own both platforms and I have no problem with either. Fanboys of each over exaggerate the merits of their chosen platform and do the same to the shortcomings of the other.