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View Full Version : Royal Navy ship told not to point guns at Mrs. Obama!


Kinsel83
10-15-2011, 7:17 AM
This is so lame. Our secret service was told to tell Royal Navy ship Edinburgh, not to point their guns at the first ladys hotel room in South Africa. The funny thing is, the guns were loaded with blanks.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2049430/Royal-Navy-ordered-turn-ships-guns--pointing-Michelle-Obamas-hotel-room.html

Toyman321
10-15-2011, 9:48 AM
Am I the only one that doesn't see what the issue is? I'm pretty sure this wouldn't be post worthy if it was a First Lady who's views you agreed with.

Divernhunter
10-15-2011, 9:53 AM
Sorry but if I was the royal navy I would tell the secert service if they(or her) did not like it go somewhere else.

This would be my answer either way. That is if I agreed with/liked or disliked/not agreed with the first lady or her guards.

tankarian
10-15-2011, 9:54 AM
Best reader comment:

Tyrants are often afraid and suspicious, and for good reason.
That being said. one could only imagine the conversation on the bridge:
One: "I say, sailor, was that a live missile filled through the hotel window?".
Two: "Yes, I am sure it was, sir."
One: "Blood mess, I'm afraid."
Two: "Indeed, sir."
One: "Amazingly good shot, none the less."
Two: "Thank you, sir."
One: "Carry on."
Two:"Aye, aye, sir."

- Vern, Texas, USA, 15/10/2011 9:06

Peter.Steele
10-15-2011, 10:34 AM
Okay, so here's the question ... most times, guns and launchers will be trained fore-and-aft unless they're going to get used. This is the way that they should be stowed, for a variety of reasons, including distribution of weight. When in port, if the guns and launchers are not trained fore-and-aft, then there is an unusual condition.

As to there being training rounds on the rails, so what? That's not an abnormal condition when you're making a port visit. You dress the ship up, and that's one step in the process.

So, my question is, was her hotel room located on a bearing of 000 relative from Edinburgh? If it was, then Michelle was overreacting and being an idiot. If her hotel room was located on any bearing other than 000 relative, then ... she might have had a point. It would have been an unusual condition for the ship's weapons to be in. Further, the biggest difference (visually) between a training round and a war shot is the color. (For the USN, war shots are white, training rounds are blue.) Spraypaint is cheap if someone wanted to make it look a little more safe than otherwise.

voiceofreason
10-15-2011, 10:37 AM
I agree with the Secret Service.

Needless risk from allies.

Like a team stacked for explosive entry with guns pointed at each others' backs.

"Cause we TRUST each other" :(

better idea... don't point guns at friendlies. especially really big ones

(not to say that Michelle Obama is particularly friendly)

DannyInSoCal
10-15-2011, 10:50 AM
Well at least she is taking a well deserved vacation....

Mikeb
10-15-2011, 10:50 AM
"fire"

secret.asian.man
10-15-2011, 10:54 AM
from the looks of the picture the angle of the missiles looked too high to even hit the hotel if accidentally fired.

smashycrashy
10-15-2011, 11:05 AM
Am I the only one that doesn't see what the issue is? I'm pretty sure this wouldn't be post worthy if it was a First Lady who's views you agreed with.

+1

It's a non-issue about the SS doing their job

I'm betting it was nothing more than someone walking over to the ship and asking them to turn the missiles 90 degrees and they said "no problem". Bet it took one guy 5 minutes tops.

There is also implicit trust since it can just as easily be turned back, the SS was just being overly cautious because that is their job and while the risk of accidental fire was probably infintesmal, there was also no reason in the world to take the risk.

They were also on foreigh soil and a foreign ship, they can't TELL anyone to do anything. I'm sure they just REQUESTED it and I'd be shocked if the FL even knew this even took place.

Briancnelson
10-15-2011, 11:45 AM
My only question is, why is she wasting my money on another vacation?

God I wish someone paid me to go on vacation that often.

masameet
10-15-2011, 12:58 PM
... then Michelle was overreacting and being an idiot ....

Honestly if somebody points his gun at you at the range, are you going to think, "Oh, that's okay. It didn't go off. No harm, no foul"?

If the US Secret Service's job is to protect the POTUS, his wife and family, there's no sense in folks trying to tell them how to do their job (and demean the Obamas because the SS are doing their job).

Anyway just in case folks didn't read the story ... From that British tabloid:

... a Navy spokesman said: 'This involved the drill missiles being on their launcher. American officials did visit the ship. They simply wanted to know if the missiles were live. When it was explained that they were drill rounds they went away content.'

Cali-Shooter
10-15-2011, 1:23 PM
I dislike and despise BHO and his FLOTUS wife like the next red-blooded American, but methinks this story is a piece of sensationalist media.

battleship
10-15-2011, 2:15 PM
I cannot really comment out of fear of being deported and that's just for laughing.

But was wondering if those missiles have a proximity device built in before the war head is armed.

masameet
10-15-2011, 4:22 PM
Here is the HMS Edinburgh ...
http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01331/SNN2220B-682_1331605a.jpg

Last June, it took part in counter-piracy operations off of West Africa before heading to the Falklands.

Anybody know what the two huge, white domed things are amidship and towards the stern?

John Browning
10-15-2011, 5:44 PM
Here is the HMS Edinburgh ...
http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01331/SNN2220B-682_1331605a.jpg

Last June, it took part in counter-piracy operations off of West Africa before heading to the Falklands.

Anybody know what the two huge, white domed things are amidship and towards the stern?

Probably radar of some kind.

Michelle Obama is clearly the most important person on Earth. Let's all make sure we live our lives giving only thought to how it may impact her.

stix213
10-15-2011, 5:46 PM
Nothing wrong with not wanting guns pointed at you, IMO

dragonbait1a
10-15-2011, 6:57 PM
Here is the HMS Edinburgh ...
http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01331/SNN2220B-682_1331605a.jpg

Last June, it took part in counter-piracy operations off of West Africa before heading to the Falklands.

Anybody know what the two huge, white domed things are amidship and towards the stern?

CWIS Phalanx (they might call it something different)
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Phalanx_CIWS

RGB

Maddog5150
10-15-2011, 7:10 PM
wow. this is getting really lame. not the article but the petty threads.
If I remember correctly, there are rules or something about firearms in general. Like never point a firearm at anything you're not prepared to kill or destroy, treat every firearm as if its loaded, be aware of your targets and surroundings :rolleyes:

Leadmaster
10-15-2011, 7:15 PM
If it was pointed at civilians and the civ's asked for them to be pointed away, nothing would happen...

IntoForever
10-15-2011, 7:26 PM
So I shouldn't have painted those rounds blue?

paul0660
10-15-2011, 7:29 PM
Fore and aft is the rule in port.

Another vacation? Does SA have lobster?

Army
10-15-2011, 8:29 PM
CWIS Phalanx (they might call it something different)
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Phalanx_CIWS

RGB
No. The CWIS is amid-ship and bright white.

The large domes should be guidance for the Sea Sparrows.

locosway
10-15-2011, 9:34 PM
If it was pointed at civilians and the civ's asked for them to be pointed away, nothing would happen...

And this is the only reason why anyone should make a big deal about it. She shouldn't have special treatment. Security is fine, but I'm pretty sure that navy ships don't move their guns from SOP just because they might be pointing at something.

monk
10-15-2011, 9:54 PM
I'm surprised at a number of posters on here (not really). Do you really think the First Lady has the power to order the secret service? Really? Seriously? Come on...

Rem222
10-15-2011, 10:37 PM
Here is the HMS Edinburgh ...
http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01331/SNN2220B-682_1331605a.jpg

Last June, it took part in counter-piracy operations off of West Africa before heading to the Falklands.

Anybody know what the two huge, white domed things are amidship and towards the stern?

Fire control radar? Speaking only from USN 60-70 experience...

Vanguard
10-15-2011, 11:39 PM
No. The CWIS is amid-ship and bright white.

The large domes should be guidance for the Sea Sparrows.

Those ships aren't equiped with Sea Sparrows.

wheels
10-16-2011, 7:02 AM
Those ships aren't equiped with Sea Sparrows.

But those are the fire control/guidance radars for their missile systems. They basically paint a target with a bunch of RF and the missile follows the radar return to the target. Another poster pointed out correctly that the small white (R2D2 looking) on the port side is CIWS - which will be pointing at 90 and 270 degrees (STBD & Port) when not active.

If I were in a hotel nearby I'd be more worried about CIWS, 20mm chain gun would be much easier to get online and fire than trying to get a real missile on the rails.

Oshiat
10-16-2011, 7:36 AM
The domes are Type 909 Fire Control Radars. The entire class is scheduled to be retired by 2013.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_42_destroyer

VictorFranko
10-16-2011, 7:58 AM
Okay, so here's the question ... most times, guns and launchers will be trained fore-and-aft unless they're going to get used. This is the way that they should be stowed, for a variety of reasons, including distribution of weight. When in port, if the guns and launchers are not trained fore-and-aft, then there is an unusual condition.

As to there being training rounds on the rails, so what? That's not an abnormal condition when you're making a port visit. You dress the ship up, and that's one step in the process.

So, my question is, was her hotel room located on a bearing of 000 relative from Edinburgh? If it was, then Michelle was overreacting and being an idiot. If her hotel room was located on any bearing other than 000 relative, then ... she might have had a point. It would have been an unusual condition for the ship's weapons to be in. Further, the biggest difference (visually) between a training round and a war shot is the color. (For the USN, war shots are white, training rounds are blue.) Spraypaint is cheap if someone wanted to make it look a little more safe than otherwise.

Peter, it is always a good idea to read the linked article before commenting :p

From the article:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/10/15/article-2049430-0E60A31700000578-622_634x393.jpg

bruceflinch
10-16-2011, 9:14 AM
Peter, it is always a good idea to read the linked article before commenting :p

From the article:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/10/15/article-2049430-0E60A31700000578-622_634x393.jpg

Look! MO didn't take the Penthouse Suite & saved us some $$! :D

Peter.Steele
10-16-2011, 9:46 AM
Peter, it is always a good idea to read the linked article before commenting :p

From the article:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/10/15/article-2049430-0E60A31700000578-622_634x393.jpg



Okay, then she's just an idiot. Training rounds on the rail, launcher pointed fore and aft.

monk
10-16-2011, 9:56 AM
Okay, then she's just an idiot. Training rounds on the rail, launcher pointed fore and aft.


Why is it that we think these giant firearms, essentially, should be treated with any less consideration than regular firearms? The four tenets exist for a reason.


And again, since when does the First Lady dictate SS policy and SOP?

Peter.Steele
10-16-2011, 10:16 AM
Why is it that we think these giant firearms, essentially, should be treated with any less consideration than regular firearms? The four tenets exist for a reason.


Sea Dart has a range of around 80 nautical miles. Which direction are you going to point that launcher where it couldn't kill someone with an AD?

jwb28
10-16-2011, 5:45 PM
Sea Darts? Don't you normally harpoon a whale?:D

Army
10-16-2011, 7:19 PM
Those ships aren't equiped with Sea Sparrows.
Darts, Sparrows, bottle rockets, slingshots :D

The domes are still FDC radar and not CWIS :)

jamesob
10-16-2011, 9:18 PM
her *** is so big where are they supposed to aim them?

meaty-btz
10-16-2011, 9:38 PM
Nice to see some folks who know how to identify shipboard systems.

Correct, on all counts. Fire Control Radar. Also, the Missiles do not go hot on launch but usually just prior to terminal guidance kicks in. The missiles would just punch a nice small hole in the hotel and maybe cause a fire.

Correctly stated the CIWS is a greater threat, 20mm explosive tipped chaingun with a mind numbing rate of fire could level a significant portion of that hotel in one salvo. Having stood less than 5 feet from a CIWS going through a LIVE, test cycle. You have no IDEA unless you've experienced it... Serious hardware is serious. Deckplates had a vertical motion I swear of at least 12" while that thing was going off. Death grip on the rails to keep my feet. Why I was stationed so close to one is anyones guess, probably a practical joke. I had made the XO accidentally look like an *** earlier in the day... Go go , USS Oldendorf, sold for target practice and sunk by a crappy foreign nation. The oldy, which was a damn sight better than her sister the Oh Broken.

monk
10-16-2011, 9:51 PM
Sea Dart has a range of around 80 nautical miles. Which direction are you going to point that launcher where it couldn't kill someone with an AD?


No clue, open water? Seriously. Even when you KNOW a firearm is empty and you've cleared it, SOP is to treat it as if it's not. Given a few of us probably have looked down barrel to look for marring, crud, etc, but it's not a constant thing for us. Quite the opposite. Lack of practice makes one complacent and that's when accidents happen. Would it have been better if she changed hotels? Maybe. Was it her choice? Most likely not. My understanding is that SS handle all security things. Seriously, there are enough things to complain about with the current administration. No need to clutter up with non-news unless it's for humor. And no, this thread does not reek of humor.

Peter.Steele
10-16-2011, 10:34 PM
Nice to see some folks who know how to identify shipboard systems.

Correct, on all counts. Fire Control Radar. Also, the Missiles do not go hot on launch but usually just prior to terminal guidance kicks in. The missiles would just punch a nice small hole in the hotel and maybe cause a fire.

Correctly stated the CIWS is a greater threat, 20mm explosive tipped chaingun with a mind numbing rate of fire could level a significant portion of that hotel in one salvo. Having stood less than 5 feet from a CIWS going through a LIVE, test cycle. You have no IDEA unless you've experienced it... Serious hardware is serious. Deckplates had a vertical motion I swear of at least 12" while that thing was going off. Death grip on the rails to keep my feet. Why I was stationed so close to one is anyones guess, probably a practical joke. I had made the XO accidentally look like an *** earlier in the day... Go go , USS Oldendorf, sold for target practice and sunk by a crappy foreign nation. The oldy, which was a damn sight better than her sister the Oh Broken.




Dude. CIWS fires tungsten or DU subcaliber penetrators. Not HE rounds. And it's not a chain gun.


But yeah, it does sound like God unzipping his fly or something. It's not as bad as Ma Deuce, though, for sheer pain. Something about the .50's really put the hurt on a ship. MCINERNEY's light would flicker whenever they'd fire the .50's at the rail.


No clue, open water? Seriously. Even when you KNOW a firearm is empty and you've cleared it, SOP is to treat it as if it's not. Given a few of us probably have looked down barrel to look for marring, crud, etc, but it's not a constant thing for us. Quite the opposite. Lack of practice makes one complacent and that's when accidents happen. Would it have been better if she changed hotels? Maybe. Was it her choice? Most likely not. My understanding is that SS handle all security things. Seriously, there are enough things to complain about with the current administration. No need to clutter up with non-news unless it's for humor. And no, this thread does not reek of humor.



Okay, so then, to point the launcher and the gun forward back at open water ... there's this little thing in the way called the superstructure. And there's interlocks there that keep you from pointing the guns and launchers that direction.

So. Ship's moored bow in. Try again. Like I (and others) have said, fore-and-aft is SOP.

mkkeele
10-16-2011, 10:58 PM
If they were so worried about it then they should have moved the first lady.

Peachdog
10-17-2011, 5:47 AM
Oh monk, you make me laugh. Seriously you're hilarious.

I guess I better go down to our FA battalions and let them know their guns are unsafely being pointed somewhere at something and they're making me nervous and poo my pants. They should just keep them dismantled until they really need them. Yeah, that seems better. :wacko:

Vanguard
10-17-2011, 10:32 AM
Darts, Sparrows, bottle rockets, slingshots :D

The domes are still FDC radar and not CWIS :)

Just correcting the misinformation, don't take offense.

Vanguard
10-17-2011, 10:53 AM
No clue, open water? Seriously. Even when you KNOW a firearm is empty and you've cleared it, SOP is to treat it as if it's not. Given a few of us probably have looked down barrel to look for marring, crud, etc, but it's not a constant thing for us. Quite the opposite. Lack of practice makes one complacent and that's when accidents happen. Would it have been better if she changed hotels? Maybe. Was it her choice? Most likely not. My understanding is that SS handle all security things. Seriously, there are enough things to complain about with the current administration. No need to clutter up with non-news unless it's for humor. And no, this thread does not reek of humor.

You should stop posting on this subject. You sound like the kind of person who would agree that a six year old should be expelled for having a plastic butter knife in his lunch pail.

monk
10-17-2011, 11:17 AM
You should stop posting on this subject. You sound like the kind of person who would agree that a six year old should be expelled for having a plastic butter knife in his lunch pail.

Plastic butter knife?!?! BANISHMENT!! That little psycho is the next Charlie Manson!!


Actually no, I'm trying to see the other side as opposed to jumping on the hate bandwagon. I never was invited to sit with the cool kids in school. I'm just trying to see why people are slamming on the First Lady since, again, I doubt it was her call. So if anything, bashing should be left for the SS. BTW, I'm guessing "just moving her" is a much more tactically involved process than asking that the ships arms be moved towards another location.

I mean, think about a worst case scenario. A live round is put into the gun, it gets shot, because guns don't just go off, and kills the First Lady. We now have a grieving President during a hard time. Markets take a harder dump than normal, violent groups think it's a great chance to attack, etc etc etc.

Basically, point the bashing were it's due.

stix213
10-17-2011, 11:44 AM
If they were so worried about it then they should have moved the first lady.

Aiming the weapon a different direction is somehow more difficult? :rolleyes:

yellowfin
10-17-2011, 4:45 PM
If they're so worried about accidental destructive consequences then why in the world is her husband in office in the first place?

ubet
10-17-2011, 5:14 PM
Her *** and ego are so big, it would be tough to aim AWAY from her.

cannon
10-17-2011, 6:06 PM
I suspect that if the Queen were in that room and the ship were American that the same request would be made.

It does need pointing out though that Mrs. O. is actually wearing an elegant dress instead or her usual explosion in a clown factory multi colored outfits.

I am curious what she's done that requires her to take another vacation at my expense...

Peter.Steele
10-17-2011, 6:37 PM
As a side note, I'm curious as to what would happen if it were an American destroyer in port ... VLS tubes, you've got any target within 200+ miles covered no matter what direction they're pointed.

Pandanin
10-17-2011, 7:14 PM
her *** is so big where are they supposed to aim them?

OMG I can't stop laughing!!! That's seriously funny.