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swiftone
10-14-2011, 8:02 PM
done

NapaPlinker
10-14-2011, 8:06 PM
I was considering my 15-22 for HD as well but ill stick with my saiga 7.62 because i dont intend on missing.

WDE91
10-14-2011, 8:30 PM
please tell me this a joke...
nice range rifle

NapaPlinker
10-14-2011, 8:36 PM
Me either, but stuff happens...and 7.62 has been known to go through bad guys...

Hypothetically intruder has bullet proof vest/trauma plate, he intends on harming you not taking from you? Then what..

NapaPlinker
10-14-2011, 8:43 PM
Head Shots :D

All I can say is that I hope either way you never have to use it.

WDE91
10-14-2011, 8:48 PM
Well here in Irvine to be honest I dont really even worry too much
If hardware has to come out it is loaded with reduced recoil 12 ga 00 buck loads

evidens83
10-14-2011, 9:02 PM
CLEAN!

DannyInSoCal
10-14-2011, 9:10 PM
I'll stick with 4 00buck mixed with 4 slugs...

sequoia_nomad
10-14-2011, 9:19 PM
Nice piece. Nothing wrong with that for a HD gun, 27 .22s ain't no joke. Not to mention, odds are the average idiot perp you're likely to come across won't be able to tell .22 from .223 by looking down a dark hole. Wouldn't matter if it's a 22 or a 45 if you were the guy on the wrong end of the barrel.

plumbum
10-14-2011, 10:10 PM
I have no problems with using a .22 rifle for home defense, just put them where they need to go. More power to you!

If I feel the need to worry about multiple late-night invaders wearing class III trauma plates, I probably should reconsider my lifestyle...

stitchnicklas
10-14-2011, 10:21 PM
:facepalm:

TrailerparkTrash
10-15-2011, 12:08 AM
My reasoning behind using a .22 was the restrictive California AW laws and the over penetration of a center fire round. Being a .22...

Four comments of my own opinion:

1) Very nice gun!

2) The L.A. Sheriff's Department made a training video for their deputies several years ago comparing a centerfire 5.56 (.223) 55gr SOFT POINT bullet out of an AR-15, vs. a 147gr HP 9mm out of a Beretta 92 series hand gun. The video shows that the 55gr. soft point bullet DOES NOT penetrate through stucko walls of a traditional house made in SoCal. However, it showed that the 9mm 147 gr bullet over penetrated 100% of the time through drywall and stucko walls of traditional houses.

The test showed that the 55gr SP out of a rifle platform is a completely "safe" round. Perfect for home defense in my opinion. So, don't fall under the false assumption that a .223 centerfire (SOFT POINT) round will go through walls, houses cars, people etc.... It's a myth. FMJ's are another story.

My point is that a .55gr soft point bullet (centerfire .223/5.56) is a perfect round for an urban environment and I would have absolutely no problem deploying that round and gun in my home if need be. In fact, it's safter than a 9mm if one is truely worried about overpenetration. Plus, a .55gr soft point .223/5.56 bullet into a human being is absolutely D-E-V-A-S-T-A-T-I-N-G on soft body tissue. Turns the insides into blood shod pulp! I've personally seen the devastation in person!!!!

3) .22 LR's go through media such as drywall, stucko walls and even car doors like a hot knife through butter.

4) If you're going to use a .22LR for home defense, may I suggest you dump the CCI 32gr "Stingers" for the new CCI 40 gr. Gold Dot HP "Velocitor." That is a better round that expands and penetrates better in soft body tissue, unlike Stingers which break up in as little as 3 inches of soft body penetration. The Velocitors are really at the top of the food chain now for modern .22LR bullets if you're hell bent on using a .22LR for self defense.

jumbopanda
10-15-2011, 12:11 AM
2) The L.A. Sheriff's Department made a training video for their deputies several years ago comparing a centerfire 5.56 (.223) 55gr SOFT POINT bullet out of an AR-15, vs. a 147gr HP 9mm out of a Beretta 92 series hand gun. The video shows that the 55gr. soft point bullet DOES NOT penetrate through stucko walls of a traditional house made in SoCal. However, it showed that the 9mm 147 gr bullet over penetrated 100% of the time through drywall and stucko walls of traditional houses.

The test showed that the 55gr SP out of a rifle platform is a completely "safe" round. Perfect for home defense in my opinion. So, don't fall under the false assumption that a .223 centerfire (SOFT POINT) round will go through walls, houses cars, people etc.... It's a myth. FMJ's are another story.

My point is that a .55gr soft point bullet (centerfire .223/5.56) is a perfect round for an urban environment and I would have absolutely no problem deploying that round and gun in my home if need be. In fact, it's safter than a 9mm if one is truely worried about overpenetration. Plus, a .55gr soft point .223/5.56 bullet into a human being is absolutely D-E-V-A-S-T-A-T-I-N-G on soft body tissue. Turns the insides into blood shod pulp! I've personally seen the devastation in person!!!!


+100 Not enough people realize this.

Heythatsneat
10-15-2011, 2:53 AM
Yea, I worry more about stray cats peeing on my car tires than intruders....and it was a tongue in cheek dig on our restrictive AW laws…I depend more on keeping my house secure using common sense, deadbolts and lockable screen doors than a carbine…but there is always my trusted Gov’t .45 available if needed.

.22 should be perfect for this issue.

Plus, imho a bullet is a bullet and a gun is a gun. I would like to assume most burglars arent superman and any bullet would harm them. Yes, severity of damage may be different between calibers but, if i got hit with a .22 id be getting the hell out of there. Not to mention that most burglars arent expecting an ar15 aimed at their face.

Props on a sick HD rifle.

secret.asian.man
10-15-2011, 6:37 AM
your choice and everyone else's choice is equally great for HD. in my opinion, your best HD weapon is what is readily available at the time. i don't know if you live in a two story home or single, but if your one HD gun is up stairs and you are down stairs during an attack, your best HD weapon might be your kitchen knife or a golf club. unless you constantly carry loaded on your property at all times.

so i'd say get proficient with everything you've got.

MrPlink
10-15-2011, 3:42 PM
I was considering my 15-22 for HD as well but ill stick with my saiga 7.62 because i dont intend on missing.

I hope you at least have some SP for that bad boy. Hitting baddies or not, at that range there is a chance a FMJ will keep on going.

Tank 57
10-15-2011, 3:55 PM
I really like that rifle.One of the nicest .22 ARs I've seen.Very clean and business like.Appearance alone could be a deterent.

Tank 57
10-15-2011, 3:55 PM
Double post.@#$% computer!

BANG BANG
10-15-2011, 4:06 PM
I see nothing wrong with your choice, If I had 22LR hi-caps for my AR It would be part of the HD arsenal for the wife

thefinger
10-15-2011, 4:07 PM
For a "bump in the night" HD weapon, mag reloads will almost certainly not come into play. I agree that an AR15 carbine is a great HD weapon, and bullet-buttons stink. However, I would choose 10+1 rounds of soft nose 5.56 in a BB'd AR15 over 27+1 rounds of 22LR every time.

27 rounds of 22LR might kill the guy, but are you going to be able to get enough 22LR lead in the bad guy to stop him before he puts 1 round of buckshot through you?

On a lighter note: I really like your AR. The A1 carbine look is my favorite, and your choice of old-school CAR stock is great. Very cool.

Cato
10-15-2011, 8:37 PM
Good choice!

The mighty .22lr has taken down many a badguy.

Bobby Kennedy was killed with .22lr and Regan was seriously busted up by one.

Since you'll probably be shooting that under extreme stress indoors, picking a small round is a smart decision.

selrahctd
10-15-2011, 8:58 PM
Don't underestimate .22lr. Cheaper ammo = more practice time = more proficient OP = well prepared OP. Thumbs up. :thumbsup:

yelohamr
10-16-2011, 8:27 AM
You might want to consider this:
Aguila 22 Long Rifle Sniper Sub-Sonic ammo.
This ammo has a 60 gr. Solid Point Lead Bullet. It travels at 950 FPS, and exhibits 120 ft-lb of energy upon impact. This ammo was especially designed for weapons with silencers and match grade barrels. This ammo is the heaviest .22 LR available on the market today and can be fired in any .22LR that is in good condition. Tests done by the manufacturer and other agencies show that this ammo will penetrate approximately 24 inches of ballistic gelatin at 200 meters. This ammo is an excellent round for .22 conversion units.

RuckerSMO
10-16-2011, 9:59 AM
Aguila 22 Long Rifle Sniper Sub-Sonic ammo.

Yelohamr said it all. Its bigger than the standard 5.56/.223 round and as quite and gentle as you can get. Easy on you, little tiny kick (if you can call it that), and a big bullet.

Only thing that he didn't add was buy it in bulk. Friend of mine gave me a box to play with and thats what I did. Stuff seems to drop like a rock, so you really need to dedicate the weapon to it, or have an interchangeable sight system. Anything with a rail that you can swap a basic red dot would do the trick. In your case, a mount for the carry handle would work great. Iron sights for the range, red dot for the house.

Just my two cents. Hope it helps.

Ubermcoupe
10-16-2011, 11:20 AM
That's a clean .22. :thumbsup:

Ruger Rick
10-16-2011, 11:34 AM
Great lookin gun!

Barring a home invasion from multiple armed assailants, your choice of HD weapon is a good one!

I feel sorry for the poor sap/s that choose to break into/onto your property. (God forbid!)

Killawhale415
10-16-2011, 12:25 PM
That's a great little carbine, it's sure to be a great shooter.

Very faithful recreation as well!

NapaPlinker
10-16-2011, 12:45 PM
I have no problems with using a .22 rifle for home defense, just put them where they need to go. More power to you!

If I feel the need to worry about multiple late-night invaders wearing class III trauma plates, I probably should reconsider my lifestyle...

Hey! It was a hypothetical scenario! hahahaahah

BuckleNose
10-16-2011, 12:49 PM
Great looking gun!

NapaPlinker
10-16-2011, 12:50 PM
I hope you at least have some SP for that bad boy. Hitting baddies or not, at that range there is a chance a FMJ will keep on going.

I do.

ZX-10R
10-16-2011, 1:13 PM
My 45 or WASR wants to end crime not give him room to sue...To each his own.

bsg
10-16-2011, 3:51 PM
congratulations.

billybob_jcv
10-16-2011, 8:47 PM
You might want to consider this:
Aguila 22 Long Rifle Sniper Sub-Sonic ammo.
This ammo has a 60 gr. Solid Point Lead Bullet. It travels at 950 FPS, and exhibits 120 ft-lb of energy upon impact. This ammo was especially designed for weapons with silencers and match grade barrels. This ammo is the heaviest .22 LR available on the market today and can be fired in any .22LR that is in good condition. Tests done by the manufacturer and other agencies show that this ammo will penetrate approximately 24 inches of ballistic gelatin at 200 meters. This ammo is an excellent round for .22 conversion units.

Will those rounds reliably cycle the bolt in a semiauto rifle?

yelohamr
10-17-2011, 2:45 PM
Work great in my Sig Mosquito and 10/22 with a 1:9 barrel.

Izzy43
10-17-2011, 3:29 PM
Aguila 22 Long Rifle Sniper Sub-Sonic ammo.

Yelohamr said it all. Its bigger than the standard 5.56/.223 round and as quite and gentle as you can get. Easy on you, little tiny kick (if you can call it that), and a big bullet.

Only thing that he didn't add was buy it in bulk. Friend of mine gave me a box to play with and thats what I did. Stuff seems to drop like a rock, so you really need to dedicate the weapon to it, or have an interchangeable sight system. Anything with a rail that you can swap a basic red dot would do the trick. In your case, a mount for the carry handle would work great. Iron sights for the range, red dot for the house.

Just my two cents. Hope it helps.

I need some education on your choice of sights inside the house. I assume that a bad guy would most likely intrude during night time. My home is darker than the inside of a cow after 9 pm and I'm not sure that a red dot is better than the iron sights on my pistol for that situation. I live in the mountains, isolated, no street lights with only starlight most of the year. My wife's HD weapon is a S&W 22A loaded with Aquila Intercepters but I think I've been convinced to switch to the Aguila .22lr Super Sub-Sonic 60 gr ammo as most confrontations will be inside of 15 ft and maybe get off 5 rounds if lucky.

Additional info on the sight choice would be appreciated. Thanks and apologies for the hijack.

yelohamr
10-17-2011, 4:22 PM
Inside the house, I wouldn't use sights. The bullet will hit what the flashlight beam is lighting up. (The light is mounted under the barrel)

TrailerparkTrash
10-18-2011, 2:04 AM
You might want to consider this:
Aguila 22 Long Rifle Sniper Sub-Sonic ammo.
This ammo has a 60 gr. Solid Point Lead Bullet. It travels at 950 FPS, and exhibits 120 ft-lb of energy upon impact. This ammo was especially designed for weapons with silencers and match grade barrels. This ammo is the heaviest .22 LR available on the market today and can be fired in any .22LR that is in good condition. Tests done by the manufacturer and other agencies show that this ammo will penetrate approximately 24 inches of ballistic gelatin at 200 meters. This ammo is an excellent round for .22 conversion units.

I normally dont give an opinion about ammo choices, but in this case I will. I repectfully disagree with using the Aguila 60gr for a defense round. Simply because its a heavy and tiny (.22 cal) bullet that can OVER PENETRATE a human. That is not a good thing, especially when using that bullet within the confines of a home. A .22 rimfire is marginal already as a quick incapacitating defensive round. N since the Aguila is justa round nose bullet, the propensity of punching right through a bad guys torso is greatly inIcreased.

You even indicated that the bullet penetrates 24" @ 200 yds. Thats not good inside someone's home, especially if you have little ones in adjoining bedrooms. Plus, since its a .22LR solid bullet, those are notorious for stopping bad guys. Ut only after a huge amount of rounds have been fired (due to a lack of a well placed shot). Thats not a good idea inside one's home to have to fire an exorbant amount of bullets when a better choice of bullet could have been choosen to begin with. (Stricktly staying on topic about .22's for home defense. Obviously a bigger bullet/caliber would be a better choice, but thats another topic.)

My suggestion to the OP is the 40gr gold dot HP by CCI, called Othe "Velocitor.". It expands to about .40 caliber and penetrates on average 13" in ballistic gel. Thats a far more effective round going into a bad guy for two simple reasons:

1). Expanding and not over penetrating is safer for innocents in adjoining rooms. The bullet would more than likely have a propensity of getting trapped within the suspect.

2). A bullet staying inside a torso without exiting, keeps all of the bullet's energy (hydrostatic shock) "dumped" into the bad guy's body cavity. With a .22LR, every little advantage gained in bullet performance helps.

RuckerSMO
10-18-2011, 4:54 AM
Izzy43, I use a BSA basic red dot. Nothing fancy, does work good. Need to get a quick release mount for it.

billybob_jcv, I have used them in my 10/22s and have had no issues.

Izzy43
10-18-2011, 5:42 AM
Lots of good/interesting info. Lets hope none of us ever have to put it to use in a home defense situation, but best to be prepared.

donw
10-18-2011, 9:40 AM
boy...lots of "Food for thought" in this thread about the subject of the .22 lr as a SD/HD round.

some of my thoughts:

having been on both ends of small arms, both military and civilian applications, i have to say...looking down the bore of ANY firearm IS INTIMIDATING...period. (IF one can see the bore, that is)...

very few bad guys employ body armor...

most home invasion that take place involve multiple aggressors...a carbine may very well be the best answer for this scenario; most folks can be more accurate with a carbine than a handgun*

*i have handguns in all calibers...but i prefer rifles and carbines even in 'SD/HD' scenarios because I'm MORE ACCURATE with rifles and carbines.

ANYONE who 'invades' should be considered as armed and dangerous...

have you ever 'popped a cap' inside of a small room inside of a house? noise! flash!...unless you take time to put on earmuffs and and dark glasses, you and anyone with open eyes will be deaf and blind momentarily...

"Penetration tests" have shown any results you care to find...

to "Stop" a bad guy is not necessarily to kill; but "Stopping" him MAY kill him...

the 5.56/.223 is a wonderful, small bore, SHORT range cartridge...but not the only one...

a person can be astonishingly accurate doing rapid fire with a .22 lr carbine at close range...

practice/training with .22 lr is no where as expensive as 5.56/.223...training and practice can lead to surviving...

any caliber is OK for SD/HD...just learn how to use your choice and train/practice CORRECTLY...

Izzy43
10-18-2011, 10:29 AM
boy...lots of "Food for thought" in this thread about the subject of the .22 lr as a SD/HD round.

some of my thoughts:

having been on both ends of small arms, both military and civilian applications, i have to say...looking down the bore of ANY firearm IS INTIMIDATING...period. (IF one can see the bore, that is)...

very few bad guys employ body armor...

most home invasion that take place involve multiple aggressors...a carbine may very well be the best answer for this scenario; most folks can be more accurate with a carbine than a handgun*

*i have handguns in all calibers...but i prefer rifles and carbines even in 'SD/HD' scenarios because I'm MORE ACCURATE with rifles and carbines.

ANYONE who 'invades' should be considered as armed and dangerous...

have you ever 'popped a cap' inside of a small room inside of a house? noise! flash!...unless you take time to put on earmuffs and and dark glasses, you and anyone with open eyes will be deaf and blind momentarily...

"Penetration tests" have shown any results you care to find...

to "Stop" a bad guy is not necessarily to kill; but "Stopping" him MAY kill him...

the 5.56/.223 is a wonderful, small bore, SHORT range cartridge...but not the only one...

a person can be astonishingly accurate doing rapid fire with a .22 lr carbine at close range...

practice/training with .22 lr is no where as expensive as 5.56/.223...training and practice can lead to surviving...

any caliber is OK for SD/HD...just learn how to use your choice and train/practice CORRECTLY...

Very well said, especially the "practice correctly". Better to hit a bad guy with a rock than miss him with a cannon. As far as choice of weapon, I believe you are right about looking at the barrel of a firearm, most bad guys will turn tail and get outa Dodge. No sane person wants to be shot with any firearm.

FashionBiff
10-18-2011, 11:19 AM
I'll stick with 4 00buck mixed with 4 slugs...

Might want to check, you never want to mix rounds with a HD gun. The fact they would consider the 00 being a less deadly round then the slug. Yea I know its stupid and 00 is pretty freaking deadly but thats not how some government suit in court will portray it and try and get you for pre mediated murder.

steelholder
10-18-2011, 12:18 PM
I'll stick with 4 00buck mixed with 4 slugs...

This is exactly my setup

Bobby Ricigliano
10-19-2011, 6:41 AM
There will be 1000 different opinions here, but the best HD choice is what the user is most comfortable and familiar with to deploy in a crisis.

I would not want to be on the business end of 27 projectiles and I am sure the OP's choice will serve him well if needed.