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Californio
10-13-2011, 2:12 PM
Our fine Public Institutions are at it again.


UC Davis Magazine (Volume 29, Number 1, Fall 2011)

News and Notes, Page 10

**** Hand Typed by me - Mods let me know if I have to redact ***

"Guns and Alcohol"

Gun owners who carry concealed weapons or have confronted another person
with a gun are more than twice as likely to drink heavily as people who do not own guns, according to a study by UC Davis researchers. The study analyzed telephone survey results from 1996 and 1997 for more than 15,000 people in eight states.

"It's not surprising that risky behaviors go together", said Garen Wintemute author of the study and director of the UC Davis Violence Prevention Research Program. "This is of particular concern, given that alcohol intoxication also impairs a gun user's accuracy as well as his judgement on whether to shoot."

wash
10-13-2011, 2:32 PM
Wintermute, dig in to the data and you'll see that his survey is garbage.

Write Winger
10-13-2011, 2:33 PM
Did they call ppl off an EBT contact list after they bought their 40oz malt liquor while having their gat in their waistband?

bwiese
10-13-2011, 2:33 PM
Oh it's Garen again.

Funny, my late dad held a cocked revolver to a guy's head for 15 minutes till the cops came - I don't think he's had more than 3 drinks since I was born, and would rather have a good rootbeer or coffee over the best whiskey wine or beer out there.

Also: Wintemute can't find all the incidences of gun use because many folks won't report it (either they're the bad guy on the wrong end of the bore and won't self-incriminate, or the person who had to use but not fire a gun to get out of a situation is afraid - incorrectly or otherwise - of legal entanglements).

Because of that alone, his numbers can't have validity.

In the end, all that matters is whether or not the shoot is good. If it's not it's a major prison term at best; if it is, it was justfiable and thus a non-issue. So it's naturally self-regulating.

Havoc70
10-13-2011, 2:33 PM
Huh, I'm a gun owner and I can count on one hand the amount of alcoholic beverages I've consumed in the past three months.

Equis
10-13-2011, 2:36 PM
Somebody's been drinking the kool-aid hard.

Write Winger
10-13-2011, 2:37 PM
All the alcoholic beverages I've consumed were all done with the same hand...

Californio
10-13-2011, 2:38 PM
Wintermute, dig in to the data and you'll see that his survey is garbage.

I know that but this is propaganda that is being published in a taxpayer supported Alumni/Parents magazine that my Father got when he was alive and still comes in the mail to me.

Its garbage but many people see this garbage and my/your tax $$ pay for it.

Agent Orange
10-13-2011, 2:41 PM
The "inside gun shows" thing on their website is quite the read.

http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/vprp/

gose
10-13-2011, 2:42 PM
Huh, I'm a gun owner and I can count on one hand the amount of alcoholic beverages I've consumed in the past three months.

Good, thats all the statistical data we need to prove them wrong.

paul0660
10-13-2011, 2:50 PM
How many other 15 year old phone surveys do they print?

Maltese Falcon
10-13-2011, 3:03 PM
Kind of off topic but peripherally relevant...Not the best example for us unfortunately.

Rep. Curry Todd Arrested for DUI

Todd sponsored a 2009 bill to allow people with handgun carry permits to bring their weapons into bars and restaurants that serve alcohol, provided they don't drink. The law passed despite opposition from law enforcement and district attorney groups, and easily survived a veto from former Democratic Gov. Phil Bredesen.


http://www.myfoxmemphis.com/dpp/news/local/rep.-curry-todd-arrested-for-dui-mfo-20111012

.

phalanxbl
10-13-2011, 3:04 PM
And in other news today, a study found that drivers who drive recklessly may be more likely to be drinking than those who drive safely...

Honestly, these studies are retarded.

Wherryj
10-13-2011, 3:15 PM
Our fine Public Institutions are at it again.


UC Davis Magazine (Volume 29, Number 1, Fall 2011)

News and Notes, Page 10

**** Hand Typed by me - Mods let me know if I have to redact ***

"Guns and Alcohol"

Gun owners who carry concealed weapons or have confronted another person
with a gun are more than twice as likely to drink heavily as people who do not own guns, according to a study by UC Davis researchers. The study analyzed telephone survey results from 1996 and 1997 for more than 15,000 people in eight states.

"It's not surprising that risky behaviors go together", said Garen Wintemute author of the study and director of the UC Davis Violence Prevention Research Program. "This is of particular concern, given that alcohol intoxication also impairs a gun user's accuracy as well as his judgement on whether to shoot."

Although I've never carry concealed (Alameda Co. won't allow me as I'm not "elite enough"), nor have I ever confronted another person with a gun I DO own guns.

I'm on call 24 hours a day, 365 days a year and haven't had a drink for at least 3 years. Top that "non-gun owners"...

Put myself and Havoc together and we have the makings of a "statistically significant study"...or some BS opinion piece for a UC campus.

Wherryj
10-13-2011, 3:27 PM
The "inside gun shows" thing on their website is quite the read.

http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/vprp/

"Gun shows are surrounded by controversy. On the one
hand, they are important economic, social and cultural events
with clear benefits for those who attend. On the other, they provide
the most visible manifestation of a largely unregulated form
of gun commerce and, partly for that reason, are an important
source of guns used in criminal violence."


http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=4706
According to the U.S. Department of Justice, at most 2 percent of guns used by criminals are purchased at gun shows, and most of those were purchased legally by people who passed background checks.

Ok, now who here considers "at most 2%" to be "an important source of guns used in criminal violence"? After considering that most were purchased LEGALLY by people who PASSed background checks, how many STILL feel that it is an "important source"?

Mr. Wintermute?.....Mr. Wintermute.....Mr. Wintermute...

Mikeb
10-13-2011, 3:31 PM
what difference does it make. If I do something illegal, charge me. If not, don't.
Yeah I had to put down my beer to type this
Mike

Dr Rockso
10-13-2011, 3:33 PM
It would almost be worth the $30 to find out which 8 states were surveyed when collecting this data. In 1996-97 slightly less than half of the US population lived in shall-issue or no-permit-needed states, today it's closer to 70%. I bet what you'd find is that there's a much bigger correlation between those who carry guns ILLEGALLY and those who engage in other risky or illegal behaviors like drinking heavily. "It's not surprising that risky behaviors go together" indeed.

dantodd
10-13-2011, 3:50 PM
Huh, I'm a gun owner and I can count on one hand the amount of alcoholic beverages I've consumed in the past three months.

I'm a gun owner and I can count on one hand the number of alcoholic beverages I've consumed today.

dantodd
10-13-2011, 3:52 PM
How many other 15 year old phone surveys do they print?

any that provide confirmation of their bias.

Stonewalker
10-13-2011, 4:01 PM
Garen should get a job with the VPC, he and Horwitz are in the same business. Smearing gun owners and gun ownership is their only goal. White noise in the background, 5 years from now, somebody will "remember hearing" that gun owners are drunks, and that will taint their view of gun owners. That is the goal of this type of research.

louiebob
10-13-2011, 4:06 PM
I do not drink and am most definitely a gun owner.... Same with about 30 other people I know, and I am college aged :)

Super Spy
10-13-2011, 4:07 PM
I'm a gun owner and I haven't had anything to drink today.......yet.

Dreaded Claymore
10-13-2011, 4:14 PM
Huh, I'm a gun owner and I can count on one hand the amount of alcoholic beverages I've consumed in the past three months.

Same here. This is ridiculous.

ChuangTzu
10-13-2011, 4:36 PM
Our fine Public Institutions are at it again.
"It's not surprising that risky behaviors go together", said Garen Wintemute author of the study and director of the UC Davis Violence Prevention Research Program.

Is he really trying to say that carrying a weapon is more risky than not carrying one? Did he pull that from out of anywhere other than his own ***?

hoffmang
10-13-2011, 9:08 PM
"Dr." Wintermute doesn't know how to include confounding variables. He's proven in this study that high income people own guns more than lower income people.

High income people drink more than moderate or low income people because they can. Also, they tend to be firearms purchasers. Unlink the two issues, and all of a sudden gun owners don't drink more than non gun owners (of the same income level.)

-Gene

Ornery Ol Bastard
10-13-2011, 9:19 PM
Does that mean that our LEO ' s and Gov prosecuters are more likely to be alcoholics... Geez u can spin the stupid studies any way you want... Another sign of the decline of our educational system...

Dr Rockso
10-13-2011, 9:58 PM
LCAV is hosting the full article here (http://www.lcav.org/content/Firearms_&_Alcohol_Study_Garen_Wintemute.06.13.11.pdf)
(http://www.lcav.org/content/Firearms_&_Alcohol_Study_Garen_Wintemute.06.13.11.pdf)

The eight states and their carry license issuing status at the time of the study are as follows:
Alaska - shall issue
Colorado - may issue
Hawaii - may issue (de facto no issue)
Mississippi - shall issue
New Hampshire - shall issue
New Jersey - may issue (de facto no issue)
North Dakota - shall issue
Ohio - no issue

I didn't see any attempt to differentiate between those who carry firearms legally versus those who carry them illegally (nor any attempt to control for occupation...I wonder if any LEOs were accused of engaging in "firearm-related risk behaviors" like confronting another person with a firearm), yet the "Implications" portion of the paper only discusses policy surrounding regulation of government-sanctioned carry. Disingenuous much?

And of course:
This work was supported by grants from the Joyce Foundation and the California Wellness Foundation.

gose
10-13-2011, 10:06 PM
I'm a gun owner and I can count on one hand the number of alcoholic beverages I've consumed today.

hmm, I cant :/

Dr Rockso
10-13-2011, 10:09 PM
"Dr." Wintermute doesn't know how to include confounding variables. He's proven in this study that high income people own guns more than lower income people.

High income people drink more than moderate or low income people because they can. Also, they tend to be firearms purchasers. Unlink the two issues, and all of a sudden gun owners don't drink more than non gun owners (of the same income level.)

-Gene
The more I look at it the more I'm convinced that perhaps all he's proven is that men own more guns than women....

goober
10-13-2011, 11:03 PM
Wintemute is a tool, and what he does is not science.

hoffmang
10-13-2011, 11:34 PM
Enjoy Kleck laying into Wintermute's (amongst others) lack of science in Chicago: http://www.archive.org/download/gov.uscourts.ilnd.245065/gov.uscourts.ilnd.245065.141.1.pdf

-Gene