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imabird
10-13-2011, 9:40 AM
For the last several years a company called "The Freedom Group"
has been buying up American gun and ammunition manufacturers.

Some of these companies are:

Bushmaster, Marlin, Remington,
Dakota Arms, H&R. DPMS Panther Arms
NEF Dakota Arms DPMS,
LC Smith Parker AAC
Barnes Bullets EOTAC INTC

Some people worry that Freedom Group is going to control most of
the firearms companies in the United States. Of course, If you control
the manufacturers you can decide not to sell to civilians, or, you can
raise the prices to ridiculous levels or you can make the supply of
guns and ammo scarce - all sorts of logjams.

What a perfect way to control America's guns!

If you do some digging you will see that The Freedom Group is
owned by a Wall Street investment company called "Cerberus Capital
Management".

"Cerberus" in the epic book "The Inferno" by Dante Alighieri, is
a three-headed demon hound (from Roman mythology) that guards the
Gates of Hell to prevent those damned souls who have just crossed the
river Styx, from escaping back to the world.

Investor GEORGE SOROS owns Cerberus!
Please pass this on to all your freedom loving friends. This
needs to come out - and quickly! Why have we not heard about this in
the "mainstream" media? I would think this would be BIG news.

The absence of big media coverage on this important subject
should be BIG news to you, too!


Check it out yourself... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Group

dotalchemy
10-13-2011, 9:48 AM
...and as soon as that happens, a hundred small firearms companies will cry out in joy as their market share skyrockets.

Those not owned by the Freedom Group will simply keep their prices the same, taking all the customers. They'll be independently owned companies which will, due to the flood of new buyers looking for affordable firearms, be hugely profitable and simply won't accept any buyout offers from the Freedom Group.

This is of course in the unlikely scenario that your conclusion isn't utter balderdash.

Oh, and Steve Feinberg is co-founder and CEO of Cerberus.

Cool story though.

shooterfpga
10-13-2011, 9:49 AM
interesting, will have to research more. but the thought of one entity owning the firearms industry is not good.

otalps
10-13-2011, 9:49 AM
Soros is not listed on the executive page (http://www.cerberuscapital.com/Biographies.aspx) of Cerberus. Dan Quayle and Tony Snow John W. Snow are though.

Fot
10-13-2011, 9:52 AM
:TFH:

goodlookin1
10-13-2011, 10:20 AM
This sounds like it came straight from a chain email....

mag360
10-13-2011, 10:27 AM
cerberus was the company that bought chrysler from daimler and lost billions after selling them to the govt/fiat for nothing.

Paul S
10-13-2011, 10:28 AM
Additionally...using Wikipedia as the primary source....please!

Wikipedia is great as a jumping off point perhaps but it should never be used as a prime and single source.

Caladain
10-13-2011, 10:29 AM
The Tinfoil is strong with this one..

NorCalDustin
10-13-2011, 10:39 AM
Do your research (i.e., 30 seconds in google)... This is FALSE.

G60
10-13-2011, 10:47 AM
http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/freedom.asp

TempleKnight
10-13-2011, 10:50 AM
Additionally...using Wikipedia as the primary source....please!

Wikipedia is great as a jumping off point perhaps but it should never be used as a prime and single source.

It doesn't take much research to confirm that George Soros has a stake in Cerberus and that Freedom Group owns a bunch of firearms and ammo manufacturers.

http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/people/person.asp?personId=2533638&ticker=ACFL:US&previousCapId=139449&previousTitle=Cerberus%20Capital%20Management%2C%2 0L.P

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/10_45/b4202025114499.htm

It just seems crazy hypocritical for George Soros the arms dealer to be so anti-gun.

meglawho
10-13-2011, 10:50 AM
Cerebrus is a huge private equity company that is very well known on Wall Street (understatement). Nothing shady or sinister about it. It acquires business with the goal of "flipping" down the line through a liquidity event (sale of a company or an IPO) to generate a healthy return for its investors. Cerebrus has done lots of acquisitions of public companies, and as such is required to provide much disclosure. Also, with the passage of Dodd Frank, there may be other reporting obligations. And private equity firms aren't "owned" by any one person. The firm typically manages a number of funds, each of which have limited partner investors putting in the bulk of the money. It's not one person pulling all the strings, and I doubt Cerebrus has ulterior motives in controlling the arms market, other than trying to increase market share and increase returns - goals that would not be best achieved by squeezing out your consumer/customer base.

I do this kind of stuff as my day job.

Kodemonkey
10-13-2011, 11:01 AM
This is the kind of crap my 86 year old Grandmother (bless her heart) forwards on to me in chain mails on a regular basis. I've debunked her so many times on snopes that she now forwards them only to me to verify before she sounds the bell to the rest of the family. She now has figured out the cut and paste a portion of these emails to the search engine in snopes.

to the OP: Well, you are being bested by my 86 year old French speaking Grandmother.

Big Ben
10-13-2011, 11:05 AM
Cerebrus is a huge private equity company that is very well known on Wall Street (understatement). Nothing shady or sinister about it. It acquires business with the goal of "flipping" down the line through a liquidity event (sale of a company or an IPO) to generate a healthy return for its investors. Cerebrus has done lots of acquisitions of public companies, and as such is required to provide much disclosure. Also, with the passage of Dodd Frank, there may be other reporting obligations. And private equity firms aren't "owned" by any one person. The firm typically manages a number of funds, each of which have limited partner investors putting in the bulk of the money. It's not one person pulling all the strings, and I doubt Cerebrus has ulterior motives in controlling the arms market, other than trying to increase market share and increase returns - goals that would not be best achieved by squeezing out your consumer/customer base.



Spot on. Let's think this one through together. The primary purpose of any private equity firm and their various investment funds is to protect the investors' capital and generate an appropriate return on the investment.

Are we really supposed to believe that the investors and managers of either the fund or the firm are going to sink hundreds of millions (if not billions) of dollars into acquiring these firearms companies, and then run them into the ground as a gun-control end-around?

I'm pretty sure even the "military-industrial complex" isn't that dumb. :TFH:

Mssr. Eleganté
10-13-2011, 11:42 AM
I've got several million dollars on the way from a Nigerian prince. (I helped him out of a financial jam.) I'd be willing to use that money to buy out Soros.

Stonewalker
10-13-2011, 12:41 PM
It doesn't take much research to confirm that George Soros has a stake in Cerberus and that Freedom Group owns a bunch of firearms and ammo manufacturers.

http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/people/person.asp?personId=2533638&ticker=ACFL:US&previousCapId=139449&previousTitle=Cerberus%20Capital%20Management%2C%2 0L.P

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/10_45/b4202025114499.htm

It just seems crazy hypocritical for George Soros the arms dealer to be so anti-gun.

I think TempleKnight drew any significance out of this information that was there. George Soros is enemy #1 to gun rights, and yet (in?)directly profits from the American firearms industry...

edlegault
10-13-2011, 12:41 PM
Didn't Soros own/control Smith & Wesson for awhile? Back when S&W stopped selling to civilians? He lost money (lack of sales) and sold his interest and S&W started selling to civilians again.

(Or maybe I am just getting old and mixing up my memories with fictional books and movies....)

IGOTDIRT4U
10-13-2011, 1:00 PM
Soros is not listed on the executive page (http://www.cerberuscapital.com/Biographies.aspx) of Cerberus. Dan Quayle and Tony Snow are though.

Isn't Tony Snow dead?

otalps
10-13-2011, 1:14 PM
Isn't Tony Snow dead?

Yes he is. That's supposed to be John W. Snow, former Secretary of the Treasury under Bush.

Ubermcoupe
10-13-2011, 1:27 PM
I've got several million dollars on the way from a Nigerian prince. (I helped him out of a financial jam.) I'd be willing to use that money to buy out Soros.

I thought he was from Inland China?

dustoff31
10-13-2011, 1:29 PM
I think TempleKnight drew any significance out of this information that was there. George Soros is enemy #1 to gun rights, and yet (in?)directly profits from the American firearms industry...

It's completely consistant for Soros.

What do you expect from a guy who is a Jew, but made money by pointing out other Jews to the Nazi's during WW II, while he was posing as a Christian?

Just in case: This isn't about Jews. It's about a guy who will do anything for money.

Stonewalker
10-13-2011, 1:32 PM
It's completely consistant for Soros.

What do you expect from a guy who is a Jew, but made money by pointing out other Jews to the Nazi's during WW II, while he was posing as a Christian?

Just in case: This isn't about Jews. It's about a guy who will do anything for money.

...is this true?

Stonewalker
10-13-2011, 1:36 PM
Did a little reading. That's irrelevant. He was 14 and avoiding being a victim of the Nazis. Doesn't do any good to blame him for that.

a1c
10-13-2011, 1:38 PM
...is this true?

Not really.

BigDogatPlay
10-13-2011, 1:41 PM
I do this kind of stuff as my day job.

And a fine job you did explaining it.

Cerberus Capital (http://www.cerberuscapital.com/)... it makes money for it's investors. And there is nothing wrong with that.

As to the Soros bit.... he's an easy target because he makes his money on the misery of others by hedging. He, and his corporation, quite often have a vested interest in things going to crap economically. Nothing illegal about it and it recognizes / leverages quite correctly that economies go up, but also go down. Soros's socialistic, one world outlook and deep pockets funding left wing advocacy and media hit groups also make him an attractive target of scorn.... and deservedly so, IMO.

dustoff31
10-13-2011, 1:43 PM
...is this true?

Yes. He admitted it on a 60 Minutes interview on TV several years ago.

http://sweetness-light.com/archive/george-soros-on-helping-the-nazis-during-the-holocaust


George Soros Interview On 60 Minutes

When the Nazis occupied Budapest in 1944, George Soros' father was a successful lawyer. He lived on an island in the Danube and liked to commute to work in a rowboat. But knowing there were problems ahead for the Jews, he decided to split his family up. He bought them forged papers and he bribed a government official to take 14-year-old George Soros in and swear that he was his Christian godson. But survival carried a heavy price tag. While hundreds of thousands of Hungarian Jews were being shipped off to the death camps, George Soros accompanied his phony godfather on his appointed rounds, confiscating property from the Jews.
(Vintage footage of Jews walking in line; man dragging little boy in line)

KROFT: (Voiceover) These are pictures from 1944 of what happened to George Soros' friends and neighbors.
(Vintage footage of women and men with bags over their shoulders walking; crowd by a train)

KROFT: (Voiceover) You're a Hungarian Jew…

Mr. SOROS: (Voiceover) Mm-hmm.

KROFT: (Voiceover) …who escaped the Holocaust…
(Vintage footage of women walking by train)

Mr. SOROS: (Voiceover) Mm-hmm.
(Vintage footage of people getting on train)

KROFT: (Voiceover) …by–by posing as a Christian.

Mr. SOROS: (Voiceover) Right.
(Vintage footage of women helping each other get on train; train door closing with people in boxcar)

KROFT: (Voiceover) And you watched lots of people get shipped off to the death camps.

Mr. SOROS: Right. I was 14 years old. And I would say that that's when my character was made.

KROFT: In what way?

Mr. SOROS: That one should think ahead. One should understand and–and anticipate events and when–when one is threatened. It was a tremendous threat of evil. I mean, it was a–a very personal experience of evil.

KROFT: My understanding is that you went out with this protector of yours who swore that you were his adopted godson.

Mr. SOROS: Yes. Yes.

KROFT: Went out, in fact, and helped in the confiscation of property from the Jews.

Mr. SOROS: Yes. That's right. Yes.

KROFT: I mean, that's–that sounds like an experience that would send lots of people to the psychiatric couch for many, many years. Was it difficult?
Mr. SOROS: Not–not at all. Not at all. Maybe as a child you don't–you don't see the connection. But it was–it created no–no problem at all.

KROFT: No feeling of guilt?

Mr. SOROS: No.

Stonewalker
10-13-2011, 1:51 PM
And a fine job you did explaining it.

Cerberus Capital (http://www.cerberuscapital.com/)... it makes money for it's investors. And there is nothing wrong with that.

As to the Soros bit.... he's an easy target because he makes his money on the misery of others by hedging. He, and his corporation, quite often have a vested interest in things going to crap economically. Nothing illegal about it and it recognizes / leverages quite correctly that economies go up, but also go down. Soros's socialistic, one world outlook and deep pockets funding left wing advocacy and media hit groups also make him an attractive target of scorn.... and deservedly so, IMO.

Nicely stated, that about sums it up.

dustoff31
10-13-2011, 1:57 PM
Did a little reading. That's irrelevant. He was 14 and avoiding being a victim of the Nazis. Doesn't do any good to blame him for that.

The posing as a Christian, I don't have a problem with. In that, he did what he had to do to survive.

Now, this is very relevant, IMO. He avoided becoming a victim of the Nazi's by in effect, becoming one of them.

KROFT: Went out, in fact, and helped in the confiscation of property from the Jews.

Mr. SOROS: Yes. That's right. Yes.

KROFT: I mean, that's–that sounds like an experience that would send lots of people to the psychiatric couch for many, many years. Was it difficult?

Mr. SOROS: Not–not at all. Not at all. Maybe as a child you don't–you don't see the connection. But it was–it created no–no problem at all.

KROFT: No feeling of guilt?

Mr. SOROS: No.

POLICESTATE
10-13-2011, 2:21 PM
The posing as a Christian, I don't have a problem with. In that, he did what he had to do to survive.

Now, this is very relevant, IMO. He avoided becoming a victim of the Nazi's by in effect, becoming one of them.

Sounds pretty sociopath to me, not that he resorted to the means he did to survive but that he had no feelings of remorse or guilt over it. He tries to excuse it because he was a child, and at the time I'm sure that makes sense, but years later when he matures, looking back, understanding the totality of the holocaust and then doesn't feel anything? WOW.

But I've come to believe/realize that many people in the elite circles of societies are sociopaths to some degree, you have to be in order to get there. Climbing on the backs of others, building your empire or influence with the blood of others.

The way the world works I suppose.

KROFT: Went out, in fact, and helped in the confiscation of property from the Jews.

Mr. SOROS: Yes. That's right. Yes.

KROFT: I mean, that's–that sounds like an experience that would send lots of people to the psychiatric couch for many, many years. Was it difficult?

Mr. SOROS: Not–not at all. Not at all. Maybe as a child you don't–you don't see the connection. But it was–it created no–no problem at all.

KROFT: No feeling of guilt?

Mr. SOROS: No.

dustoff31
10-13-2011, 2:33 PM
Sounds pretty sociopath to me, not that he resorted to the means he did to survive but that he had no feelings of remorse or guilt over it. He tries to excuse it because he was a child, and at the time I'm sure that makes sense, but years later when he matures, looking back, understanding the totality of the holocaust and then doesn't feel anything? WOW.

But I've come to believe/realize that many people in the elite circles of societies are sociopaths to some degree, you have to be in order to get there. Climbing on the backs of others, building your empire or influence with the blood of others.

The way the world works I suppose.

And this is what makes any of those people worthy of considerable watching.

Certainly in the case of Mr. Soros, he has told us, quite clearly, that he would have no problem whatsoever loading any one of us into a boxcar, if he deems it to be in his interest to do so. I'm sure there are others who share that view.

turbogg
10-13-2011, 2:40 PM
And this is what makes any of those people worthy of considerable watching.

Certainly in the case of Mr. Soros, he has told us, quite clearly, that he would have no problem whatsoever loading any one of us into a boxcar, if he deems it to be in his interest to do so. I'm sure there are others who share that view.

And sadly many of the "others" willing to sell us out are............................what for it..................................the very government "leaders" that are elected to keep out country safe and strong. :mad:

Kharn
10-13-2011, 2:45 PM
Considering that the former owners of Bushmaster are already back in business as Windham Weaponry, I'm not very concerned about it.

Wherryj
10-13-2011, 3:45 PM
cerberus was the company that bought chrysler from daimler and lost billions after selling them to the govt/fiat for nothing.

Well, at least they didn't make the mistake of naming their company "Cerebral" because that would have been an oxymoron.

Dreaded Claymore
10-13-2011, 6:21 PM
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab17/DreadedClaymore/cool_story_bro.jpg

Knight_Who_Says_Ni
10-13-2011, 6:28 PM
Here's an article I read about the whole thing...

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/10/robert-farago/george-soros-doesnt-own-the-freedom-group/

darkwater
10-13-2011, 9:05 PM
The truth of the matter is that Freedom Group has changed several good gun manufacturers for the worse with the way they buy up businesses and try to make money by consolidating overhead and hiring cheaper labor, hoping the brand name loyalty will remain to keep sales strong. Since they closed the Marlin plant over a year ago, laid off all but a few of the skilled, experienced employees that were willing to uproot and move, and consolidated Marlin production with the Remington plant in NY, there have been lots of quality issues with the newer guns manufactured with the Remington proof mark.

The Marlin Owner's forums has a dedicated Marlin Rant Forum detailing all kinds of issues. There's also been talk of quality issues with the Remington brand. Link: http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php?board=179.0

In a way, Freedom Group is indirectly dabbling in gun control...pretty soon, no one will want to buy their poorly made products!

hoffmang
10-13-2011, 9:56 PM
It doesn't take much research to confirm that George Soros has a stake in Cerberus and that Freedom Group owns a bunch of firearms and ammo manufacturers.

http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/people/person.asp?personId=2533638&ticker=ACFL:US&previousCapId=139449&previousTitle=Cerberus%20Capital%20Management%2C%2 0L.P

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/10_45/b4202025114499.htm

It just seems crazy hypocritical for George Soros the arms dealer to be so anti-gun.
Uhh... Your links don't point to Soros funds at all...

-Gene

mebejets
10-24-2011, 9:26 PM
**** *****
*
Internet Rumors About Cerberus, Freedom Group Are Patently False
*
Friday, October 14, 2011
*
Recently, an old rumor regarding Cerberus--the private equity firm that owns Freedom group, a holding company that in turn owns a number of firearms manufacturers, including Remington, Marlin, Bushmaster, and DPMS--was in some way tied to George Soros.

This rumor is completely false and baseless.

NRA has had contact with officials from Cerberus and Freedom Group for some time.* The owners and investors involved are strong supporters of the Second Amendment and are avid hunters and shooters.

In reality, at no time has George Soros ever been a part of the ownership group of Freedom Group or Cerberus, and as a privately traded corporation, there is no possibility that he will be in the future.

This unsubstantiated rumor has caused a great deal of unnecessary concern for gun owners. NRA-ILA urges our members to take great care before repeating baseless rumors found on the Internet.


*
Copyright 2011, National Rifle Association of America, Institute for Legislative Action.
This may be reproduced. It may not be reproduced for commercial purposes.
11250 Waples Mill Road, Fairfax, VA 22030*** 800-392-8683*
Contact Us | Privacy & Security Policy

mag360
10-24-2011, 9:42 PM
things like this are like those stupid chain emails you get about doing a cleanse to get all the "undigested red meat" out of you. LOL.

wyrm2021
10-25-2011, 9:28 AM
Sounds kooky, but keep an eye on it anyway. Big corp. run by Libs hedging for a lose in a subsidary of the parent company does not sound out of the ordinary.

MasterYong
10-25-2011, 9:37 AM
This goes in the "the UN is conspiring to take your guns" and "you have to report what guns you own when you file taxes" pile.

:TFH::rofl2:

Kid Stanislaus
10-25-2011, 10:10 AM
I've got several million dollars on the way from a Nigerian prince. (I helped him out of a financial jam.) I'd be willing to use that money to buy out Soros.

Hey, I also have severl million dollars on the way from a Nigerian prince. His name is Swamamoggaramagooga and I sometimes suspect there's something amiss about this guy but I just can't put my finger on it!:rolleyes: