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bender152
10-12-2011, 8:30 PM
The Trijicon SRS

http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2011/10/10/trijicon-srs-the-evolution-of-the-red-dot/

- 1.75 MOA red dot
- 38mm objective
- runs on an AA battery and solar panel

No word on price other than it will be "under $1k".

pacifico23
10-12-2011, 8:36 PM
Ooooohh. Very interesting. Aesthetically I like the aimpoint look better. But 3 year battery life with solar power during sun? I like that alot. I wonder where the price it going to come out at? Under 650, I may buy it. Otherwise I may look to the t-1. I like the 1.75 moa too.

Droppin Deuces
10-12-2011, 8:39 PM
Is it centerfire?

ERdept
10-12-2011, 8:40 PM
ooooh, nice,. What magnifier works with it? Looks like any currently out right?

jchen76@gmail.com
10-12-2011, 8:55 PM
Kinda of like the zeiss z point red dot. Uses battery and has a panel.

http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/520303/zeiss-z-point-reflex-sight-for-weaver-style-base-4-moa-dot-reticle-matte

Rogue2215
10-12-2011, 9:11 PM
"Trijicon tells me they are going to have the sight in the hands of retailers after SHOT Show 2012 for well under $1000."

Well under huh? So $899.

Looks like a winner though!

G38xOC
10-12-2011, 9:18 PM
sweet

Noah3683
10-12-2011, 9:20 PM
I'll stick to aimpoint for now

FourLoko
10-12-2011, 9:22 PM
interesting

mlevans66
10-12-2011, 9:27 PM
Under a $1000 to be competative? Really? Then it needs to be either Aimpoint/Eotech price to match then. I'll keep a eye out for it see as it does look interesting.

PsychGuy274
10-12-2011, 9:30 PM
A little clunky-lookin', but I wouldn't mind checking one out.

ir0nclash86
10-12-2011, 9:38 PM
Yeah under $1000 is not good enough for me. I might as well invest in an Acog for around that price. If it's priced around 500 I'll have to buy one.

DavidR310
10-12-2011, 11:26 PM
shouldn't this be under Optics, Mounts, Rails and Sights (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/forumdisplay.php?f=90)?

Droppin Deuces
10-12-2011, 11:32 PM
shouldn't this be under Optics, Mounts, Rails and Sights (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/forumdisplay.php?f=90)?

It should be, but that's probably where OP found out about it in the first place, since there's already a thread there. Of course, the next logical step is to post about it in the centerfire rifles forum.

(I'm kidding, I'm kidding!)

kemikalembalance
10-12-2011, 11:33 PM
fancy!. im with ya'll on the price though. im diggin my aimpoints for now. i wonder if the military will get first crack at them?

ChrisTKHarris
10-12-2011, 11:51 PM
zomg

Solar powered...how GREEN of them :)

Mr_Monkeywrench
10-13-2011, 12:50 AM
If they come in around eotech prices, Id have to really be talked out of one

MrPlink
10-13-2011, 12:57 AM
Msrp on a compM4 is still circa 800

Scratch705
10-13-2011, 1:23 AM
LOL that's what I was thinking as well. It better be priced at Eotech/Aimpoint price point.

better price point would be the direct competitor the Ziess's version at around $550-$600

zfields
10-13-2011, 5:34 AM
ugly, and expensive

tacticalcity
10-13-2011, 5:42 AM
Well, it's not out yet and the price has not be set yet either. Under $1K could mean anyhere between $1 and $999. Jumping the gun to assume it is going to be at the $1K mark. Be patient. Wait and see. Judge then.

goodlookin1
10-13-2011, 5:59 AM
I'll stick with my Eotech, TYVM. Just as good of a FOV and 1/4 of the price.

bender152
10-13-2011, 8:01 AM
It should be, but that's probably where OP found out about it in the first place, since there's already a thread there. Of course, the next logical step is to post about it in the centerfire rifles forum.

(I'm kidding, I'm kidding!)

I actually found it on the FN Forum, but I now see that we already have a thread about it in our optics section.

As to why I posted it in centerfire... visibility. Many people just don't go to the optics forum. The thread there has 1 reply.

Centerfire was not the right place to post it, but at least people saw it.

starsnuffer
10-13-2011, 8:06 AM
That would like right at home on an FN2000 or that Beretta vaporware rifle.

I like it a lot, but I'm not keen on how thick the frame is around the lens. Yeah, the toilet paper roll thing is better, but now you have a huge thick blind spot surrounding the optic instead.

-W

gose
10-13-2011, 8:20 AM
So its bigger and bulkier than an aimpoint, has worse battery life and might cost more?

Yeah, sounds like a winner to me ;)

HK Dave
10-13-2011, 8:24 AM
I'd buy one at $500, but at $1000 no thanks.

mlevans66
10-13-2011, 8:26 AM
So its bigger and bulkier than an aimpoint, has worse battery life and might cost more?

Yeah, sounds like a winner to me ;)

Well it's battery life is an issue but it can run off sun juice also so that saves the battery.

starsnuffer
10-13-2011, 9:15 AM
So its bigger and bulkier than an aimpoint, has worse battery life and might cost more?

Yeah, sounds like a winner to me ;)

No, it's smaller then an aimpoint, weighs an ounce more, but has a much bigger (38mm) lense). It doesn't use the battery when the sun is out, only at night, so battery life depends on when you shoot I guess.

-W

tomd1584
10-13-2011, 9:20 AM
If this is about size, why are they comparing it to an Aimpoint Comp series?

I'll stick with my Eotech, TYVM. Just as good of a FOV and 1/4 of the price.

So its bigger and bulkier than an aimpoint, has worse battery life and might cost more?

Yeah, sounds like a winner to me ;)


Doesn't look any bigger than the M4 or Eotech to me. FOV doesn't look any more clustered to me either. The fact that it will come with a kick-*** Bobro mount is even better-:cool2:

I'm actually looking forward to trying one out-

My guess, (and from Grant's posting on m4c.net), is that it will be priced around the Comp M4.
http://m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=1121454&postcount=79



http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/wp-content/blogs.dir/5/files/trijicon-srs/100611odtrijiconsrs19.jpg



http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/wp-content/blogs.dir/5/files/trijicon-srs/100611odtrijiconsrs17.jpg

SuperSet
10-13-2011, 9:37 AM
I dont have a need for this RDS but... now that Trijicon has done this, they should do this for their next line of variable scopes. This will solve the problem with ACOGs/AccuPoints having issues with the reticule fading to black when exposed to bright light in a darkened room.

pyro3k2
10-13-2011, 9:46 AM
better price point would be the direct competitor the Ziess's version at around $550-$600

I guess people forgot that the Ziess is also solor powered as well as many other PSO and POSP russian red dots.

Press Check
10-13-2011, 9:55 AM
Doesn't look any bigger than the M4 or Eotech to me. FOV doesn't look any more clustered to me either. The fact that it will come with a kick-*** Bobro mount is even better-:cool2:

I'm actually looking forward to trying one out-

My guess, (and from Grant's posting on m4c.net), is that it will be priced around the Comp M4.
http://m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=1121454&postcount=79




I have an Aimpoint M4, in addition to a Trijicon ACOG, and I don't see any distinct advantage in owning an SRS over an M4, or vice-versa. I think the name brand will generate sales as opposed to any tangible advantage over a competing manufacturer.

By no means am I dismissing the SRS. It is definitely nice to see technology, and a great manufacturer in the 1x market competing against Aimpoint and EOTech.

tomd1584
10-13-2011, 10:07 AM
I have an Aimpoint M4, in addition to a Trijicon ACOG, and I don't see any distinct advantage in owning an SRS over an M4, or vice-versa. I think the name brand will generate sales as opposed to any tangible advantage over a competing manufacturer.

By no means am I dismissing the SRS. It is definitely nice to see technology, and a great manufacturer in the 1x market competing against Aimpoint and EOTech.

Just another option for the consumer :D

Sniper3142
10-13-2011, 11:12 AM
The SRS looke interesting but the price needs to be competitive with the current RDS options.

I also hear talk of a 1-4x or possibly 1-6x Acog style scope in the works (and no, not like their Accupoint line).

After all the fuss they raised about a new product, only to release a Bow Sight... it would be nice for them to come out with something actually usefull.

chead
10-13-2011, 11:41 AM
Yeah under $1000 is not good enough for me. I might as well invest in an Acog for around that price. If it's priced around 500 I'll have to buy one.

Exactly, $500 is a go, $1000 is nogo. Not to mention I don't care how rugged it is, people are wary of glass hanging off their gun.

MrPlink
10-13-2011, 11:49 AM
Buncha old guard rable in this thread

GunAddict.45
10-13-2011, 11:57 AM
Looks good if it comes in around $500.

someR1
10-13-2011, 12:07 PM
not wasting my money onna red dot....you could buy a sweet rifle for what THAT is gonna cost !

Press Check
10-13-2011, 12:31 PM
Just another option for the consumer :D

Exactly, which is an awesome thing. :)

Jyruiz
10-13-2011, 6:23 PM
Looks cool, too bad I can't afford it.

DavidR310
10-14-2011, 5:06 AM
The "Greenest" Red Dot!!!

Trijicon Sealed Reflex Sight (SRS) – The NEXT evolution of the red dot!

http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/wp-content/blogs.dir/5/files/trijicon-srs/100611odtrijiconsrs01.jpg
http://www.trijicon.com/images/news/SRS02_45.jpg
http://www.americanrifleman.org/Webcontent/gallery/136/2031DSC00449_imbed.jpg
http://www.americanrifleman.org/Webcontent/images/2011-10/2011101085156-dsc00443_m.jpg

The bullet points:

- 1.75 MOA red dot
- 38mm objective lens- The SRS has a huge viewing window,
nearly eliminating the tube effect!
- Runs for 3 years on an average setting and uses the solar panel
to power the optic in place of the AA battery when in sunlight
- Automatic plus 10 individual brightness settings for the red dot, 1-3 are
night vision compatible
- Sealed, ruggedized case
- No tools needed!- sighting adjustments can be made with a shell case and
the Bobro self-adjusting mount snaps into place with a locking lever
- 3.75 inches long

More BP's!

- User adjustable red dot brightness!
- Same ruggedness as all ACOG goes through!
- Having the host of American Rifleman fire the SRS mounted on a AR15
with no AA battery installed....PRICELESS!
- NVG Compatible
- Under $1,000 MSRP

"The new Trijicon SRS (Sealed Reflex Sight) is a reflex-type sight with a unique optical design, housed in a body length of only 3.75 inches, that virtually eliminates the “tube-effect” common with other, competitive red dot sights. The result—a field of view that essentially provides no obstruction to shooters. That means lightning fast target engagements at CQB distances with no distraction from the shooter’s situational awareness....

This uniquely patented configuration allows the user years of illumination life from a single battery by offering an intuitive “solar assist”, that is, drawing on battery power only when the solar cell requires additional energy support for illumination based on ambient conditions."

Video Links

- The Host from American Rifleman didn't even know what was going on!

http://www.americanrifleman.org/Video.aspx?cid=23&vid=3756

http://bcove.me/l97oez5c


Media Reviews

American Rifleman (http://www.americanrifleman.org/blogs/trijicon-is-going-green/)

Gunblog.com (http://www.gunblog.com/new-trijicon-srs-red-dot/)

dieselpower
10-14-2011, 5:22 AM
Take one off the rifle and whip it against the wall as hard as you can. If it still works, then "under $1,000" is OK. If not, Aimpoint still has title of #1 in that price range and everything else is a gimmick.

If you do not need an optic to stand up to that kind of abuse... UNDER $500 is where it needs to be. Battery power is battery power. 3 months, 3 years 10 years.. all the same.

How efficient is that solar panel after 5 years? How scratch resistant is the solar panel cover? How rugged is the solar panel electronics? "Under $1,000" is no where I want to be without first answering those questions.

Toss this is a $450 price bucket and the solar panel gimmick is good.

OHW
10-14-2011, 6:19 AM
Zeiss was first with solar. Some seem to think this is a repackaged Zeiss. Which they have just discontinued . Coincidence?

FiveSeven
10-14-2011, 6:21 AM
Agree, can't imagine spending an extra $450 or so over Aimpoint micro.

21SF
10-14-2011, 7:31 AM
Oh no the ziess is discontinued!?

IF zeiss is anything like the scopes they make OMG i want!

That thing meh, depends on the exact price.

The aimpoint is still king as diesel mentioned, and you can get the pro w/ mount for under 400.

Haplo
10-14-2011, 7:40 AM
I still like being able to say that my ACOG is nuclear powered ;)

21SF
10-14-2011, 7:44 AM
its tritium and fiber optics, saying its nuclear is a little exaggeration, lol

Merc1138
10-14-2011, 8:16 AM
its tritium and fiber optics, saying its nuclear is a little exaggeration, lol

No it isn't. It's solar and battery powered.

It's also a dupe.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=7307041
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=7315059

motorwerks
10-14-2011, 8:32 AM
Zeiss was first with solar. Some seem to think this is a repackaged Zeiss. Which they have just discontinued . Coincidence?

http://www.zeiss.com/c1256bcf0020be5f/Contents-Frame/4f4421821a409b1885256dbf004f3282

They have solar.... thats as close as they get.... They don't have one spec thats the same, and their site says nothing about being discontinued. So I would say happenstance.

21SF
10-14-2011, 8:55 AM
No it isn't. It's solar and battery powered.

It's also a dupe.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=7307041
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=7315059

UM, i was responding to haplo.......

OHW
10-14-2011, 11:21 AM
http://www.zeiss.com/c1256bcf0020be5f/Contents-Frame/4f4421821a409b1885256dbf004f3282

They have solar.... thats as close as they get.... They don't have one spec thats the same, and their site says nothing about being discontinued. So I would say happenstance.

This add posted by someone else first shows that the manufacture has discontinued this model.
http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/520303/zeiss-z-point-reflex-sight-for-weaver-style-base-4-moa-dot-reticle-matte

Patents can be bought. Tweaks can be made. Durabillity and price can be increased in a name change. Didn't I say it was "rumoured".

ScottsBad
10-14-2011, 1:24 PM
As usual I'm way behind, I just found out about the SRS.

I don't get many of the comments made by some of you good people. It seems like a lot of people spend more time defending the decisions they made when they bought the stuff they have now then looking at the REAL advantages and disadvantages of this new red dot.

I mean really, statements like, "I don't see why anyone would buy one of these over an Aimpoint mini" (T-1 I guess). And, "This isn't any better than an Aimpoint M4." just sounds kinda dopey to me. My favorite comments that compared this to a Zeiss, and something about the Aimpoint being sleeker than the SRS? What?

My pros and cons.
Cons:
- Cost and "Under $1000". That is a lot.
- Just a dot? I like the EOTech reticle better.
- An AA battery? I would have preferred an CR123, because they are superior in the cold, have a long shelf life, and are compact.
- Made for a flat top AR. OK, fine to start, but what if I wanted to use it on a different rifle? Maybe there is something I've yet to learn about the mount.
- They left out the tritium...personally I like the tritium as a back up. Nuclear powered LOL.

PROS
- It is made by Trijicon, a high quality manufacturer in the GOOD OLD USA. Not some socialist foreign country. I'll pay a little more for that. No, they don't make gimmicky stuff.
- 38mm objective lens with a short barrel, will probably make looking through an Aimpoint M4 like trying to aim through a McDonald's straw. OK, a slight exaggeration. It doesn't sound like a big difference, but try putting it side by side with a T-1.
- Bobro QD mount - An amazing piece of engineering that uses a single lever and requires NO adjustments. I have this QD mount on one of my scopes and it's engineering makes the others look primitive.
- Comes with a QD mount - Factor that into the cost of an M4 and see what that does to the numbers.
- Relatively sleek design - Look, all you folks that think a M4 is a monument to great sleek designs are smoking something laced with Hoppe's #9.
- Short barrel for a tube sight, WAY shorter than a M4, especially for a 38mm objective.
- Solar power - Trijicon has been using fiber optic solar collectors to illuminate their scopes for awhile, so this is a natural step. You can argue that Aimpoint gets many years out of their batteries, but the fact remains, when the Aimpoint battery dies (for what ever reason) the scope cannot be used. But if you're outside during the day, your Trijicon SRS will still work with no battery.
- If it is Trijicon, it is rugged.

I'm just going by pictures, videos, what I've read, etc., but this looks like a winner to me. We will have to see what the cost is, but I like so far.

Oh, and Thank you to everyone who contributed to this post and the guy who started it.

dieselpower
10-14-2011, 2:50 PM
As usual I'm way behind, I just found out about the SRS.

I don't get many of the comments made by some of you good people. It seems like a lot of people spend more time defending the decisions they made when they bought the stuff they have now then looking at the REAL advantages and disadvantages of this new red dot.

I mean really, statements like, "I don't see why anyone would buy one of these over an Aimpoint mini" (T-1 I guess). And, "This isn't any better than an Aimpoint M4." just sounds kinda dopey to me. My favorite comments that compared this to a Zeiss, and something about the Aimpoint being sleeker than the SRS? What?

My pros and cons.
Cons:
- Cost and "Under $1000". That is a lot.
- Just a dot? I like the EOTech reticle better.
- An AA battery? I would have preferred an CR123, because they are superior in the cold, have a long shelf life, and are compact.
- Made for a flat top AR. OK, fine to start, but what if I wanted to use it on a different rifle? Maybe there is something I've yet to learn about the mount.
- They left out the tritium...personally I like the tritium as a back up. Nuclear powered LOL.

PROS
- It is made by Trijicon, a high quality manufacturer in the GOOD OLD USA. Not some socialist foreign country. I'll pay a little more for that. No, they don't make gimmicky stuff.
- 38mm objective lens with a short barrel, will probably make looking through an Aimpoint M4 like trying to aim through a McDonald's straw. OK, a slight exaggeration. It doesn't sound like a big difference, but try putting it side by side with a T-1.
- Bobro QD mount - An amazing piece of engineering that uses a single lever and requires NO adjustments. I have this QD mount on one of my scopes and it's engineering makes the others look primitive.
- Comes with a QD mount - Factor that into the cost of an M4 and see what that does to the numbers.
- Relatively sleek design - Look, all you folks that think a M4 is a monument to great sleek designs are smoking something laced with Hoppe's #9.
- Short barrel for a tube sight, WAY shorter than a M4, especially for a 38mm objective.
- Solar power - Trijicon has been using fiber optic solar collectors to illuminate their scopes for awhile, so this is a natural step. You can argue that Aimpoint gets many years out of their batteries, but the fact remains, when the Aimpoint battery dies (for what ever reason) the scope cannot be used. But if you're outside during the day, your Trijicon SRS will still work with no battery.
- If it is Trijicon, it is rugged.

I'm just going by pictures, videos, what I've read, etc., but this looks like a winner to me. We will have to see what the cost is, but I like so far.

Oh, and Thank you to everyone who contributed to this post and the guy who started it.

I understand what you are saying, but you are mis-reading me as well.

Let me explain myself using an analogy.
Ferrari 458 Spider. $700 with tires, $400 without tire you can get custom ones, top speed 200MPH sustained for 8 hours. Hand made specifically for the guy who wants to see that speedo needle bottom out.
Mustang GT 5.0 Rousch "under $1000" comes with a set of high end tires & not offered without tires, but has an awesome Bose 1000 watt sound system. Top speed 150MPH.
Camaro SS, $300 with tires, $200 without tires. Gets the job done @ over 150 MPH.

What are you going to buy and why? Does it make sense to spend possibly twice as much for the Mustang as a Ferrari? Does the sound system really make that price tag work for you?

For me, I am the Camaro guy. I have a C-More ATAC 4 MOA. Its 100% everything I need. Solid as a rock, right on target everytime with mount and A2 BUIS for $450. You can not beat that anywhere you go adding in a quality mount AND quality BUIS with the optic. If I was going to drop "under $1K" on a RDS... it for sure would be a T1 over this Trijicon. By all accounts so far this is a "hobbyist" RDS. No better than a C-More, Buris, Bushnell, Cannon, Leupold, Ziess, or even a Trijicon Reflex II but Cost twice as much,

Oh and while we are on the subject of battery life and solar energy... does this have a solar cell that can be charged... will it function at night without a battery? Will it dim as the light source dims? How long is the solar charge?

And another point. With complicated electronics comes complicated problems. Ask EOTech... they will tell you all the horror stories. Mixing duel power sources on an optic going to be mounted on a firearm that is going to be abused takes extreme over engineering. Trijicon is a good brand, but this isn't their specialty.

I am sure this is a freaking awesome great optic, but pricing it "under $1K" is way more than its worth in the industry.

tomd1584
10-14-2011, 3:44 PM
I bet the consumer is able to buy this somewhere around $600-$700 including the Bobro mount.

FX-05 Xiuhcoatl
10-15-2011, 4:00 PM
about time a n.e.r.d. on trijicon came out with an idea from his calculator.:rolleyes:

MrPlink
10-15-2011, 5:18 PM
so solar power is a no go, but fiber optic for an ACOG is GTG,,,
got it..
:rolleyes:

dieselpower
10-15-2011, 6:52 PM
so solar power is a no go, but fiber optic for an ACOG is GTG,,,
got it..
:rolleyes:

Well yes and no. If you understood both as well as I do you would understand why. It seems you think the fiber optics system in an ACOG is an electronic circuit that is no different from a solar powered electronic circuit. Maybe you should research both types of systems before you :rolleyes: at this discussion.

They are nothing alike.

223556
10-15-2011, 7:08 PM
Hmm very interesting concept. Now Ill just wait for when they make a smaller redesigned model that is 100% solar powered and a half or less that price! :rolleyes:

dieselpower
10-15-2011, 7:27 PM
Hmm very interesting concept. Now Ill just wait for when they make a smaller redesigned model that is 100% solar powered and a half or less that price! :rolleyes:

Reflex II?

223556
10-15-2011, 7:31 PM
Reflex II?

WOW did a quick research and did not know they didnt have batteries! Thanks for that info!
Ive seen the Reflex sights before but not my cup of tea.

JOE MACK
10-15-2011, 8:05 PM
What is the use? Short range guerilla sniper work? 1.75MOA dot seems a little too small for CQB work. I'll stick with my Aimpoints for now.

Cole125
10-15-2011, 8:14 PM
Looks great! In the world of high end optics you have to pay to play, if I didn't already have a Aimpoint on my red dot AR I would buy that.

MrPlink
10-15-2011, 8:22 PM
Well yes and no. If you understood both as well as I do you would understand why. It seems you think the fiber optics system in an ACOG is an electronic circuit that is no different from a solar powered electronic circuit. Maybe you should research both types of systems before you :rolleyes: at this discussion.

They are nothing alike.

Maybe if you understood the English language half as well I do you would think before you open your mouth and possibly only have half as many posts as you do here.

Where in my post did I make any inference to the two being the same?

Here, let me spoon feed the implication to you:

In the comparison of FIBER OPTICS on an ACOG and SOLAR PANELS on this reflex sight the INFERENCE (big word I know, if you need me to explain it, just say so instead of making another pretentious reply) is that they are both ALTERNATIVES to battery cell power.


What is the use? Short range guerilla sniper work? 1.75MOA dot seems a little too small for CQB work. I'll stick with my Aimpoints for now.

Considering a lot of aimpoints use a 2moa dot, I doubt .25MOA will be noticable.

Not to mention, 1.75MOA un-magnified is not going to be intended to do much outside of CQB.

dascoyne
10-16-2011, 5:11 AM
The big-assed sight picture just might sell me on this expensive, ugly optic.

starsnuffer
10-16-2011, 8:53 AM
The big-assed sight picture just might sell me on this expensive, ugly optic.

You just need an expensive, ugly rifle to put it on. Think FN2000 or ACR.

-W

dieselpower
10-16-2011, 9:12 AM
Maybe if you understood the English language half as well I do you would think before you open your mouth and possibly only have half as many posts as you do here.

Where in my post did I make any inference to the two being the same?

Here, let me spoon feed the implication to you:

In the comparison of FIBER OPTICS on an ACOG and SOLAR PANELS on this reflex sight the INFERENCE (big word I know, if you need me to explain it, just say so instead of making another pretentious reply) is that they are both ALTERNATIVES to battery cell power.




Considering a lot of aimpoints use a 2moa dot, I doubt .25MOA will be noticable.

Not to mention, 1.75MOA un-magnified is not going to be intended to do much outside of CQB.

and let me further my post count by imparting some social interaction where your inference doesn't go unnoticed.

the emoticon you used is labeled "rollseyes". this is the social equivalent of actually rolling your eyes at someone indicating you believe what they are saying is unworthy of your attention and means nothing.

So lets go back to your statement shall we...

so solar power is a no go, but fiber optic for an ACOG is GTG

saying this while rolling your eyes indicates you feel anyone arguing against solar powered electrical systems but accepting fiber optics non-electrical systems is ignorant since they are both the same.

You are 100% wrong. Either you didn't understand why we are against electrical system in optics made for abusing environments or you don't understand the technology you are bashing.

The technologies are miles apart in both function and use.

let me toss an analogy out there...
So a solar powered car for long distance freight is No Go, but a Diesel Electric locomotive is ok... :rolleyes:

That is a completely idiotic statement for a person to make then to use the rollseyes emoticon.

So you should have said this...
so solar power is a no go, but fiber optic for an ACOG is GTG :thumbsup:
which shows you both understand the technology and understand the emoticons used in social interaction on the net.

So my replay was in error because you do understand the technology, but you fail in understanding emoticons.

Oh and the human eye can not discern any led dot under 1MOA. The dot inside of an EOTech is actually 1/3rd of an MOA but is seen as 1MOA. There is no difference between a 1.75MOA dot and a 2MOA dot. Trijicon was just being accurate in describing their RDS. The Aimpoint dots vary from 1.5 to 2.5 from unit to unit but are seen as 2MOA by the users. So you are correct it will not be noticed.

oh and fiber optics has zero to do with powering an electrical circuit..... so once again even if you do understand ACOG tech...you failed in your point.

1forall
10-16-2011, 9:40 AM
Interesting...but nice.

d1eSELxxxx
10-16-2011, 9:59 AM
:lurk5:

Great points on both sides of the argument. I feel that; as already mentioned, if the price of the SRS is not around the eotech/aimpoint then it is focused more toward the "im a company and I have a great reputation name brand and a new rds I can price it at$900 to rich boys and they will buy it cuz it has the name Trijicon on it" type of crowd, haha. Joking aside though, $5-650 is a great price point for a rds, any higher and thats just an over priced item for what its intended for.......a red dot sight, not a scope or IR scope. We will see.


Looks like a great rds though.

MrExel17
10-16-2011, 10:24 AM
Sweet, love the solar feature! Thanks for passing the info down.

KracknCorn
10-16-2011, 5:52 PM
As for red dot scopes, I like my aimpoint micro, but I realize I like variable scopes more so now.

dascoyne
10-16-2011, 6:11 PM
You just need an expensive, ugly rifle to put it on. Think FN2000 or ACR.

-W

If the sight picture is a dramatic improvement I don't care how it looks. I used to think my Aimpoint Comp M3 looked cumbersome with the high Larue mount, but the proper cowitness of the height made me warm up to it. I wouldn't mind trying this out on one of my ARs.

Still I don't see it replacing my Aimpoint T-1 which has the weight advantage.

BTW. The FS 2000 isn't ugly. Looks nice IMO - especially with the Monolith Arms p90-styled handguard replacement. I've got an EOTech 553 on mine - looks like it was made for it.

Press Check
10-16-2011, 6:47 PM
Slightly off-topic here, but what's so special about a Bobro QD mount compared to a Larue QD mount?

RRichie09
10-16-2011, 8:08 PM
Take one off the rifle and whip it against the wall as hard as you can. If it still works, then "under $1,000" is OK. If not, Aimpoint still has title of #1 in that price range and everything else is a gimmick.

If you do not need an optic to stand up to that kind of abuse... UNDER $500 is where it needs to be. Battery power is battery power. 3 months, 3 years 10 years.. all the same.

How efficient is that solar panel after 5 years? How scratch resistant is the solar panel cover? How rugged is the solar panel electronics? "Under $1,000" is no where I want to be without first answering those questions.

Toss this is a $450 price bucket and the solar panel gimmick is good.

Well said.

The solar power is a gimmick in my opinion. Why doesn't someone come up a recoil powered generator for the RDS? It could fit where the battery would go in a compM4 and the technology is 6th grader simple.

dascoyne
10-16-2011, 8:24 PM
Well said.

The solar power is a gimmick in my opinion. Why doesn't someone come up a recoil powered generator for the RDS? It could fit where the battery would go in a compM4 and the technology is 6th grader simple.the only problem with recoil power is that it requires moving parts, no?

RRichie09
10-16-2011, 9:13 PM
the only problem with recoil power is that it requires moving parts, no?

And solar panels require semiconductors which aren't really known for their strength. The thing I'm talking about is basically scaling a Faraday flashlight generator which consist of only 1 moving part, a magnet. The problem would be that it generates AC that would have to be converted into DC.

starsnuffer
10-17-2011, 7:59 AM
And solar panels require semiconductors which aren't really known for their strength. The thing I'm talking about is basically scaling a Faraday flashlight generator which consist of only 1 moving part, a magnet. The problem would be that it generates AC that would have to be converted into DC.

I don't want to burst anyone's bubble, but a LED is a semiconductor. Yeah, the same thing that's making the reticule in any red dot or holo sight, and the same thing that is in any modern "tacticool" flashlight. Pretty sure that they're someone has come up with a way to make them reliable in a "military grade" weapon application at this point.

-W

dieselpower
10-17-2011, 9:50 AM
I don't want to burst anyone's bubble, but a LED is a semiconductor. Yeah, the same thing that's making the reticule in any red dot or holo sight, and the same thing that is in any modern "tacticool" flashlight. Pretty sure that they're someone has come up with a way to make them reliable in a "military grade" weapon application at this point.

-W
while the same basic tech... again its miles apart as to what it actually is and how G-forces effect it. Its not the fall..its the sudden stop...its not always the sudden stop, but can also be the mindbogglingly fast deceleration.. LOL

dascoyne
10-17-2011, 4:02 PM
And solar panels require semiconductors which aren't really known for their strength. The thing I'm talking about is basically scaling a Faraday flashlight generator which consist of only 1 moving part, a magnet. The problem would be that it generates AC that would have to be converted into DC.

So you're basically saying that Trijicon built a device that, contrary to their testing claims, isn't very durable?

BTW. Contrary to how I might sound I'm no Trijicon fanboy. I've only owned Aimpoint red dots and one EOTech. Never owned a Trijicon.

Pryde
10-17-2011, 5:06 PM
not wasting my money onna red dot....you could buy a sweet rifle for what THAT is gonna cost !

Let's hold off on judgement until the MSRP is officially announced.

Inquirer
10-17-2011, 5:24 PM
Just curious - what makes a Red Dot Sight worth any more than, say, $150? It doesn't seem like an overly complex device, and if you can get one for $30, what exactly is being improved for the extra... nine hundred dollars?

I'm not saying I'd buy a $30 red dot, but I wouldn't buy a $700 either, so I'm wondering what you get for each price echelon ($50, $150, $300, $500, $900, etc.).

RRichie09
10-17-2011, 5:36 PM
I don't want to burst anyone's bubble, but a LED is a semiconductor. Yeah, the same thing that's making the reticule in any red dot or holo sight, and the same thing that is in any modern "tacticool" flashlight. Pretty sure that they're someone has come up with a way to make them reliable in a "military grade" weapon application at this point.

-W

Comparing a LED which is incased in plastic and very small to a solar panel which is a thin sheet of semiconductor materials isn't exactly apples to apples now is it.


So you're basically saying that Trijicon built a device that, contrary to their testing claims, isn't very durable?

BTW. Contrary to how I might sound I'm no Trijicon fanboy. I've only owned Aimpoint red dots and one EOTech. Never owned a Trijicon.

Umm no? My point was that even though a faraday flashlight type generator has a moving part it can be made reliable especially if they can make thin semiconductor material robust.

RRichie09
10-17-2011, 5:40 PM
Just curious - what makes a Red Dot Sight worth any more than, say, $150? It doesn't seem like an overly complex device, and if you can get one for $30, what exactly is being improved for the extra... nine hundred dollars?

I'm not saying I'd buy a $30 red dot, but I wouldn't buy a $700 either, so I'm wondering what you get for each price echelon ($50, $150, $300, $500, $900, etc.).

You get something that requires less power. You'd be surprised how quickly costs can go up as you try to reduce power consumption. You get a more robust device that is less likely to fail due to abuse. You get a cleaner reticle. As in the edges of the dot are crisp. I'm sure a missing a couple of other points but just the ones I mentioned can make the cost of manufacturing and design rise significantly.

Oh yeah, don't forget brand name ;)

dieselpower
10-17-2011, 8:25 PM
Just curious - what makes a Red Dot Sight worth any more than, say, $150? It doesn't seem like an overly complex device, and if you can get one for $30, what exactly is being improved for the extra... nine hundred dollars?

I'm not saying I'd buy a $30 red dot, but I wouldn't buy a $700 either, so I'm wondering what you get for each price echelon ($50, $150, $300, $500, $900, etc.).

when you make something built to take a certain level of abuse, that cost money. The $30 RDS use tape to hold the diodes in place. The tape holds the diode against a cardboard plate. They use screws to push the plate to move the diode for zeroing. That doesn't hold zero too well.

The $30 RDS use cheap paint to glaze the optics in order to reflect. That chips easy when applied outside. It flakes off on the inside due to the next reason to avoid the $30 optic.

The $30 RDS is not sealed in any way from the elements. Its not designed to flex with temperature changes. When it heats up, it warps...in weird places. that allows moisture to set in. It allows carbon from the firearm to get in. It allows the flex to move the zero...but you will not notice that since the recoil is doing a better job of moving that zero.

Moisture, flex, cheap materials, cheap coatings = corrosion and breakage.

...and I haven't even started on the electronics....:(

Now the $150 RDS goes a few steps toward better and you get a fair optic that stands up to normal use.

The $300 RDS goes above what is expected and has design changes made to accommodate that. A rifle may get dropped on its optic...design the optic to withstand a drop with the added weight of the rifle on it.

The $600 RDS is built to a standard well above what is expected and past what is possible to encounter. A Optic maybe used as a weapon and thrown at the enemy. Design the optic to withstand being thrown at an enemy and striking a brick wall.

The $1000 RDS has a cool feature that is not going to solve a problem encountered in the field, but will be *****en cool to the users. Design a Optic that makes toast with jelly when you hit the bullseye.

ScottsBad
10-19-2011, 4:56 PM
I understand what you are saying, but you are mis-reading me as well.

Let me explain myself using an analogy.
Ferrari 458 Spider. $700 with tires, $400 without tire you can get custom ones, top speed 200MPH sustained for 8 hours. Hand made specifically for the guy who wants to see that speedo needle bottom out.
Mustang GT 5.0 Rousch "under $1000" comes with a set of high end tires & not offered without tires, but has an awesome Bose 1000 watt sound system. Top speed 150MPH.
Camaro SS, $300 with tires, $200 without tires. Gets the job done @ over 150 MPH.

What are you going to buy and why? Does it make sense to spend possibly twice as much for the Mustang as a Ferrari? Does the sound system really make that price tag work for you?

For me, I am the Camaro guy. I have a C-More ATAC 4 MOA. Its 100% everything I need. Solid as a rock, right on target everytime with mount and A2 BUIS for $450. You can not beat that anywhere you go adding in a quality mount AND quality BUIS with the optic. If I was going to drop "under $1K" on a RDS... it for sure would be a T1 over this Trijicon. By all accounts so far this is a "hobbyist" RDS. No better than a C-More, Buris, Bushnell, Cannon, Leupold, Ziess, or even a Trijicon Reflex II but Cost twice as much,

Oh and while we are on the subject of battery life and solar energy... does this have a solar cell that can be charged... will it function at night without a battery? Will it dim as the light source dims? How long is the solar charge?

And another point. With complicated electronics comes complicated problems. Ask EOTech... they will tell you all the horror stories. Mixing duel power sources on an optic going to be mounted on a firearm that is going to be abused takes extreme over engineering. Trijicon is a good brand, but this isn't their specialty.

I am sure this is a freaking awesome great optic, but pricing it "under $1K" is way more than its worth in the industry.

I don't know what kind of whacked out analogy you are trying to put forth, it makes about as much sense as the rest of the ill informed statements you make I guess.

How can you substantiate statements like, "By all accounts so far this is a "hobbyist" RDS. No better than a C-More, Buris, Bushnell, Cannon, Leupold, Ziess, or even a Trijicon Reflex II but Cost twice as much." You have no idea what you are talking about. Where did you get this information? I don't think you know your brown hole from your food hole.

Are you trying to say that your C-more is equivalent to the SRS? Or and Aimpoint M4? Or even an Eotech? What are you trying to say? Because, I guarantee that if you drop your C-more on that poorly protected lens, you will be using your irons. And C-mores aren't that cheap either.

I'm not even gonna try to address the rest of the crap you've spewed on this subject, because it is not worth my time. I'll just say, you should keep your mouth shut so people won't know you are without wit.