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choprzrul
10-12-2011, 5:19 PM
Full Article Here (http://calcoastnews.com/2011/10/slo-chief-behind-open-carrying-legislation/)

San Luis Obispo Police Chief Deborah Linden launched the successful effort to criminalize the open carrying of unloaded handguns in public, wrote Dave Maggard, president of the California Police Chiefs Association, in an email.

I took a few 52.3 and 18USC241 liberties in the comments section, but from the approval ratings of my postings, I think that I am getting the "Gun Rights ARE Civil Rights" message out to the masses, and they approve.

I thought that others here on CGN would like to know where the UOC ban originated. Our sheriff Parkinson was a Captain in the SLO dept before getting elected, so this provides some insight into his mentality.

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Werewolf1021
10-12-2011, 5:59 PM
Learn something every day....

My question is... Why? In the three years I have been here I have never seen or heard of any open carrying in SLO....

Anyways, good to know. I'll ask her in person if I get the chance.

Army
10-12-2011, 9:22 PM
Learn something every day....

My question is... Why? In the three years I have been here I have never seen or heard of any open carrying in SLO....

Anyways, good to know. I'll ask her in person if I get the chance.
Not looking very well, I carry as often as possible in SLO, and I've been here for 50 years :)

choprzrul
10-13-2011, 12:07 AM
Not looking very well, I carry as often as possible in SLO, and I've been here for 50 years :)

Nuts!

The only time I have seen you was @ SLOSA and you were all loaded up sending rounds down range....

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Army
10-13-2011, 8:01 AM
Don't know why she felt she needed to push the issue. I've never been stopped or even questioned by SLO PD. Since there are MAYBE 6-7 others who carry here, it's not like she had a lot of traffic on UOC'ers to raise a concern.

BTW, all of the main downtown is off-limits due to Mission Prep school, from Louisa's Place to just past Spikes bar. But all of Marsh St. is OK (the 1000' line stops halfway between Higuera and Marsh), as is Monterey east from Boo-Boo's...including the Court House plaza :) Madonna Plaza is also clear, as is all of South Higuera. Laguna Shopping center is out, with a K-6 less than two blocks behind it. Home Depot and COSTCO are just barely OK, with the GFSZ line ending about 50' from COSTCO's front door (you can park near the gas pumps/tire shop and be clear to walk in. Curiously, there is a sign at the front door that states COSTCO will not prevent the excersize of Constitutional Rights)

You can often find me packing at Ben Franklins, since the owner is a shooter and collector.

Ubermcoupe
10-13-2011, 8:06 AM
Don't know why she felt she needed to push the issue.

Banning of UOC was always another "feel-good" law. Now she can claim "I've made the streets safer after I pushed this type of legislature through..." blah blah blah. :rolleyes:

There is still no evidence that supports UOC increases the risk of tragedies and violence.

The Shadow
10-13-2011, 9:01 AM
http://calcoastnews.com/images/2011/10/San-Luis-Obispo-Police-Chief-Deborah-Linden.jpg

I'll bet she's so proud of herself. :mad:

choprzrul
10-13-2011, 10:22 PM
Don't know why she felt she needed to push the issue. I've never been stopped or even questioned by SLO PD. Since there are MAYBE 6-7 others who carry here, it's not like she had a lot of traffic on UOC'ers to raise a concern.

BTW, all of the main downtown is off-limits due to Mission Prep school, from Louisa's Place to just past Spikes bar. But all of Marsh St. is OK (the 1000' line stops halfway between Higuera and Marsh), as is Monterey east from Boo-Boo's...including the Court House plaza :) Madonna Plaza is also clear, as is all of South Higuera. Laguna Shopping center is out, with a K-6 less than two blocks behind it. Home Depot and COSTCO are just barely OK, with the GFSZ line ending about 50' from COSTCO's front door (you can park near the gas pumps/tire shop and be clear to walk in. Curiously, there is a sign at the front door that states COSTCO will not prevent the excersize of Constitutional Rights)

You can often find me packing at Ben Franklins, since the owner is a shooter and collector.

PM me if you are going to organize something before the first of the year.

Potential legal benefit of having video evidence of a person UOC before the ban ++ LTC denial letter??? Makes me think that it could be beneficial if there is no other color involved.

>

wheels
10-14-2011, 12:02 AM
Good comments there - thumbs up applied

Chris J
10-14-2011, 9:30 AM
Full Article Here (http://calcoastnews.com/2011/10/slo-chief-behind-open-carrying-legislation/)

I thought that others here on CGN would like to know where the UOC ban originated. Our sheriff Parkinson was a Captain in the SLO dept before getting elected, so this provides some insight into his mentality.

.
Yep, we elected the wrong sheriff. Or somebody did. Not me.

choprzrul
10-14-2011, 9:51 AM
Yep, we elected the wrong sheriff. Or somebody did. Not me.

Pretty boy from the Good 'Ol Boys club....

dalriaden
10-14-2011, 9:58 AM
I could understand going ape-s*** if LOC had just been banned but I don't understand the infatuation with UOC. I don't think it should be banned but it turns your gun into a paperweight. I don't even see it as a valid crime preventative measure, more likely instead of being robbed at knife point they shank you then tank your wallet and gun while you lay bleeding out wondering what happened.
Feel free to flame me, or better yet, explain what the love is for UOC, and I would love to see people walking around AG, pismo, grover, avila, and SLO with pistols hanging on their hips and not getting funny looks, I'd just rather they were loaded then for show.

Kettel : We are talking about Slo California not Arizona or Florida. Things will be very different with thousands of people doing open carry in little San Luis Obispo, instead of what 3 of you now?

If I'm reading this comment right, if thousands of people in slo open carry they will all become blood crazed psycopaths? Or did I misread it?

camsoup
10-14-2011, 10:10 AM
I could understand going ape-s*** if LOC had just been banned but I don't understand the infatuation with UOC. I don't think it should be banned but it turns your gun into a paperweight. I don't even see it as a valid crime preventative measure, more likely instead of being robbed at knife point they shank you then tank your wallet and gun while you lay bleeding out wondering what happened.
Feel free to flame me, or better yet, explain what the love is for UOC, and I would love to see people walking around AG, pismo, grover, avila, and SLO with pistols hanging on their hips and not getting funny looks, I'd just rather they were loaded then for show.

LOC was banned long ago...all we had was UOC unless you were one of the privileged few to get a CA License to Carry

vantec08
10-14-2011, 10:33 AM
So, lets see . . . .crime in SLO has gone screaming down, kiddies are happier, people are safer, residents no longer have to worry about seeing ugly inherently evil things, obesity is cured and the anchovy is thriving. Leave anything out?

dalriaden
10-14-2011, 10:35 AM
So, lets see . . . .crime in SLO has gone screaming down, kiddies are happier, people are safer, residents no longer have to worry about seeing ugly inherently evil things, obesity is cured and the anchovy is thriving. Leave anything out?

There are no longer hordes of homeless that ask for money when you're sitting by the sidewalk in marstens.:rolleyes:

Are non-firing replica's illegal? Protesting wearing one could be interesting.

http://www.replicagunsswords.com/weapons_gallery/image.php?id=1345&type=D

http://www.replicagunsswords.com/weapons_gallery/image.php?id=1267&type=D

http://www.replicagunsswords.com/weapons_gallery/home.php?cat=375&sort=orderby&sort_direction=0&page=1

mej16489
10-14-2011, 12:03 PM
Are non-firing replica's illegal? Protesting wearing one could be interesting.



Not a good idea...

12550. As used in this article, the following definitions apply:
...
(c) "Imitation firearm" means any BB device, toy gun, replica of a
firearm, or other device that is so substantially similar in
coloration and overall appearance to an existing firearm as to lead a
reasonable person to perceive that the device is a firearm.

12556. (a) No person may openly display or expose any imitation
firearm, as defined in Section 12550, in a public place.
(b) Violation of this section, except as provided in subdivision
(c), is an infraction punishable by a fine of one hundred dollars
($100) for the first offense, and three hundred dollars ($300) for a
second offense.
(c) A third or subsequent violation of this section is punishable
as a misdemeanor.
(d) Subdivision (a) shall not apply to the following, when the
imitation firearm is:

wheels
10-14-2011, 12:06 PM
I could understand going ape-s*** if LOC had just been banned but I don't understand the infatuation with UOC. I don't think it should be banned but it turns your gun into a paperweight. I don't even see it as a valid crime preventative measure, more likely instead of being robbed at knife point they shank you then tank your wallet and gun while you lay bleeding out wondering what happened.
Feel free to flame me, or better yet, explain what the love is for UOC, and I would love to see people walking around AG, pismo, grover, avila, and SLO with pistols hanging on their hips and not getting funny looks, I'd just rather they were loaded then for show.

If I'm reading this comment right, if thousands of people in slo open carry they will all become blood crazed psycopaths? Or did I misread it?

Just looking at the time to respond to a threat.

Slow ------------------------------------Fast
Trunk -- LUCC -- UOC -- LTC -- LOC

Trunk, LUCC, UOC, LTC all have delays compared to LOC (LTC is minimal) .

UOC and LOC both provide deterrence and increase vulnerability. IMHO you should be in condition orange if openly carrying.

I don't seriously think most would prefer UOC over LOC, but that was the only option available. Soon there will be no open carry option. Since CA LTC varies in availability by county - for many in CA trunk or LUCC will soon be the only defense options - not good

I didn't UOC as I don't like being in orange (+ GFSZ & LEO's) all the time, but as demonstrated by LEO's the safest you can be is when you have several LOC's watching out for each other.

1JimMarch
10-14-2011, 1:29 PM
Irwin Nowick tried to pull the same trick in 2004. He was influenced by the open carry protest marches in Ohio that caused CCW reform there.

choprzrul
10-14-2011, 3:16 PM
I really have no desire to UOC.

I really am passionate that I have the RIGHT to UOC.

I am really disturbed that our rights have been trampled upon once again.

I am sadly disappointed that more of my fellow law abiding citizens are completely complacent about losing their rights.

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dalriaden
10-14-2011, 4:24 PM
I really have no desire to UOC.

I really am passionate that I have the RIGHT to UOC.

I am really disturbed that our rights have been trampled upon once again.

I am sadly disappointed that more of my fellow law abiding citizens are completely complacent about losing their rights.

.

So is a protest or anything being formed in the slo area? When I moved here my roommates said it wouldn't be hard for them to get a ltc but I'm thinking it'll be a lot harder for them then they expect if they ever start the process.

choprzrul
10-14-2011, 4:36 PM
So is a protest or anything being formed in the slo area? When I moved here my roommates said it wouldn't be hard for them to get a ltc but I'm thinking it'll be a lot harder for them then they expect if they ever start the process.

I am seriously considering filling out the county's grand jury submission form to have her investigated. Nothing will happen, but oh well. The answer is 'no' until you ask....

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Rumline
10-14-2011, 7:01 PM
I would say this makes me embarrassed of my former hometown but then I remembered the Los Osos sewer fiasco... Not to mention how lame the SLO PD is for shutting down Bike Night.

Army
10-15-2011, 8:41 PM
I would say this makes me embarrassed of my former hometown but then I remembered the Los Osos sewer fiasco... Not to mention how lame the SLO PD is for shutting down Bike Night.
Bike night was stupid and dangerous. I can't tell you how many times I nearly creamed some moron(s) as they whipped out into traffic with no care in the world, JUST BECAUSE it was bike night and they believed they owned the streets.

Not to mention it took 3 times as long to get through downtown, with the idiot mobs filling the street and running every red light.

Difference is: Guns are mentioned in the Constitution.

As for L.O., they created their own problem by not plumbing the place 40 years ago when there were only a couple thousand living there.

choprzrul
10-16-2011, 3:34 PM
The moderator over at CalCoastNews.com has taken an interest in my postings. He is so interested that he saw fit to remove my last post. I then get a string of emails telling me to stop using my signature line and accusing me of being a mouthpiece for the John Birch society???

Yikes, guess that they don't like civil rights activists posting on their news site. Anyway, their playground, their rules.

Here is the post that got deleted by the mod. I wonder how many different users, posting this same thing from geographically diverse IP addresses, it would take to make him realize that I am not just some wacko screaming into the darkness.

Ok, for clarity, let’s get the whole civil rights thing explained:

1. We are born with a full set of civil rights, pure and complete

2. The Bill of Rights was put in place to limit government’s intrusion into our civil rights (for some odd reason a lot of people think that it’s either the government or the constitution that gives them civil rights???)

3. The government has chosen to ignore parts or all of #1 & #2 above and oppress civil rights

4. Law abiding citizens are using the courts in an attempt to make the government realize that we do not approve of their intrusion into our fundamental civil rights. The cities of Washington DC and Chicago fought us all the way to the Supreme Court, but they lost miserably. Alan Gura won both of those cases and is kicking butt in Dearth v. Holder having filed for MSJ yesterday in US District Court.

5. Within 5 years, the 2A will be approached and litigated in a manner that is similar in scrutiny as the 1A.

Very few people realize just how far the 2A civil rights movement has progressed in just the last 5 years. Things are moving at light speed (well, light speed where the federal courts are concened) with the USSC actaully requesting that 2 more potential landmark 2A cases be submitted for consideration in the upcoming session. They have witnessed how their deicisons in Heller & McDonald have been twisted by the circuit courts and now they are going to kick some tail.

The old anti gun clichés of the past are no longer going to work. Arguing for gun control is the same as arguing against civil rights. Things would have probably been ok in CA up until about 2000 if Sacramento had stopped there. However, they chose to cross the line, and now law abiding gun owners are sending their $$ to litigators to restore their fundamental civil rights. Sacramento, at this point, can pass all of the laws that it wants too and it will do no good. The Supreme Court is putting the smack down on the entire nation and removing Sacramento from the equation.

Guess what? This means that the window for implementing policies and procedures that will pass constitutional muster is closing rapidly. If Sacramento does not fix it quickly, the USSC will fix it for them. I personally prefer the way the USSC will do this, but I doubt that many on this forum will like it.

Gun Rights ARE Civil Rights. The only question left is level of scrutiny. It can be found in the recent 7th Circuit decision Ezell v. Chicago. The key rules from Ezell:

1. use originalism from both 1791 and 1868 to determine if an activity is within the scope of the Second Amendment right.

2. If it is, apply First Amendment doctrine

3. make the standard of review more stringent when the activity is closer to the core of the right

4. make the standard of review more stringent when the government is prohibiting rather than regulating.

5. Generally speaking, when looking for guidance, look to Eugene Volokh.

Alan Gura won big time with this decision (he has a habit of winning 2A decisions). Granted, the 7th isn’t controlling in CA, but the line of reasoning in this decision closely matches the reasoning used by SCOTUS in Heller & McDonald. As such, expect 1 or 2 more pro 2A decisions to be handed down by the USSC by the end of June 2012.

And here is where all of this ties back to the UOC ban: When SCOTUS hands down their decisions in June, Loaded Open Carry (LOC), Unloaded Open Carry (UOC), Loaded Concealed Carry (typically CCW), and vehicle transport of weapons by law abiding citizens are ALL going to be given protected status by the USSC.

Once this happens, CA and certainly Deb Linden are not going to have ANY input on how this law abiding citizen choses to exercise his civil rights to Keep and Bear Arms for the purpose of Self Defense. You can all jump and scream all you want, but at the end of the day it was the over exuberant gun control wackos that pushed us into a corner and made us push back via the courts. We will have our civil rights to freely exercise as we see fit and you will have ZERO say about it.

If you can’t cite specific case law in process or already decided, you are making empty arguments.

Anti Gun == Anti Civil Rights

Gun Rights ARE Civil Rights


Is that really that bad that it warranted deletion???

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**Tweaked it by removing the last 3 lines and the "Gun Rights ARE Civil Rights" 1/2 way up and the mod let it go??? Whoever he is, he must be radically against seeing "Gun Rights ARE Civil Rights".

.

spork
10-16-2011, 7:02 PM
You had a sympathetic staff, after all we posted the article this is all about.

Then you "I took a few 52.3 and 18USC241 liberties" and again and again.
Posting blocks of text and shouting people down again and again.

Every community has it's standards even calguns. But you choprzrul don't care like the sewer guy and the anti pro-choice guy, the pro-choice woman, the white power people and the Jesus fellow (and many more), you want to shout your cause over and over with walls of cut and paste text, name calling etc.

This is not about your Civil Rights it's about your misbehavior in someone else house, you are just like the guy at the dinner table shouting down anyone you does not agree with you.

Your rights we support, our rights include the right to choose who and what we publish on our site just like you choprzrul can do on your website.

GWbiker
10-16-2011, 7:20 PM
http://calcoastnews.com/images/2011/10/San-Luis-Obispo-Police-Chief-Deborah-Linden.jpg

I'll bet she's so proud of herself. :mad:

She did it for the children. After all, Guns are evil black scarey things that go BOOM all by themselves.

GWbiker
10-16-2011, 7:30 PM
Bike night was stupid and dangerous. I can't tell you how many times I nearly creamed some moron(s) as they whipped out into traffic with no care in the world, JUST BECAUSE it was bike night and they believed they owned the streets.

Not to mention it took 3 times as long to get through downtown, with the idiot mobs filling the street and running every red light.

Difference is: Guns are mentioned in the Constitution.

As for L.O., they created their own problem by not plumbing the place 40 years ago when there were only a couple thousand living there.

Bike Night is a popular gathering across the country and good for downtown business. Bike Nights I have attended in Pennsylvania (Lansdale) annually attract upwards of 12,000 people. Several square blocks are completely shut down to all motor vehicle traffic. Bike park there and stay there 'till closing. It was always orderly and profitable for local business.

Of course, that was suburban Philadelphia. Not California town, where locals beetch and moan about everything out of the ordinary.

Werewolf1021
10-16-2011, 10:59 PM
You can often find me packing at Ben Franklins, since the owner is a shooter and collector.

Love that place. Great to know I've been supporting a shooter! :D

choprzrul
10-16-2011, 11:27 PM
You had a sympathetic staff, after all we posted the article this is all about.

Then you "I took a few 52.3 and 18USC241 liberties" and again and again.
Posting blocks of text and shouting people down again and again.

Every community has it's standards even calguns. But you choprzrul don't care like the sewer guy and the anti pro-choice guy, the pro-choice woman, the white power people and the Jesus fellow (and many more), you want to shout your cause over and over with walls of cut and paste text, name calling etc.

This is not about your Civil Rights it's about your misbehavior in someone else house, you are just like the guy at the dinner table shouting down anyone you does not agree with you.

Your rights we support, our rights include the right to choose who and what we publish on our site just like you choprzrul can do on your website.

Really?

Kettel/Spork/moderator/whoever from an online news source came to CalGuns.net and created a user account for the sole purpose of flaming me?

hmmft. ok, whatever.

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spork
10-17-2011, 7:24 PM
"for the sole purpose of flaming me?"
You think that is flaming you? Then you are a delicate flower indeed.

You don't help your cause when you alienate the readers and your hosts.

Army
10-17-2011, 10:45 PM
Bike Night is a popular gathering across the country and good for downtown business. Bike Nights I have attended in Pennsylvania (Lansdale) annually attract upwards of 12,000 people. Several square blocks are completely shut down to all motor vehicle traffic. Bike park there and stay there 'till closing. It was always orderly and profitable for local business.

Of course, that was suburban Philadelphia. Not California town, where locals beetch and moan about everything out of the ordinary.
Downtown was closed during bike night. All they did was block traffic and seriously endanger themselves.

creekside
10-17-2011, 11:11 PM
"for the sole purpose of flaming me?"
You think that is flaming you? Then you are a delicate flower indeed.

You don't help your cause when you alienate the readers and your hosts.

Welcome. Please stick around, read a few posts, see what us folks all about. Feel free to ask some questions.

enegue
10-18-2011, 1:41 AM
http://calcoastnews.com/images/2011/10/San-Luis-Obispo-Police-Chief-Deborah-Linden.jpg

I'll bet she's so proud of herself. :mad:
She's going to run for political office and needs to have something on her resume...that's the only motivation for initiating this law to ban UOC.

OlderThanDirt
10-18-2011, 8:45 AM
The trend towards the UOC ban started a little earlier than the SLO effort.

http://www.iveknownrivers.org/stories/vol_002/panthermania-2006-04-13/beeheadline.jpg

Whenever a patrol car entered the Oakland-Berkeley ghetto, it was tailed by the Panthers, who had their own communications system. After Don Mulford, the conservative Republican who represented Berkeley hills in the legislature, introduced a bill regulating guns, the Panthers decided to lobby the legislature. On May 2, 1967, they drove to Sacramento in a caravan, marched with their unloaded weapons into the capitol, and after getting lost inside the building, accidentally walked onto the floor of the Assembly bearing their arms. The legislators were frightened, the media became hysterical, and the Panthers, some of whom were arrested, never again lacked publicity....

Sounds strangely similar to the current circumstances...

CessnaDriver
10-18-2011, 8:50 AM
She's going to run for political office and needs to have something on her resume...that's the only motivation for initiating this law to ban UOC.

Agreed, I am certain putting "feathers in their caps" is part of it.
Low hanging fruit for those politically aspiring.

choprzrul
10-18-2011, 3:51 PM
You are not going to believe what a user there, that claims to be a 29 year law enforcement veteran, has to say about the 2A. Mark T Says: (http://calcoastnews.com/2011/10/slo-chief-behind-open-carrying-legislation/)

I see there are many here who misunderstand the second amendment. It does not give the average citizen the right to possess firearms. This ban is a small step in the right direction to a total ban on gun ownership.

Whoa. Talk about being absolutely and completely wrong.

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