PDA

View Full Version : Age to own or be in posession of large capacity mags?


Pages : 1 2 [3]

tenpercentfirearms
12-04-2007, 9:35 PM
You want a lock till you have more news?

I have no problems leaving it open. It doesn't hurt to see this thread pop up now and then. The less restrictions the better is my philosophy. ;)

Ech0Sierra
01-04-2008, 7:56 PM
Wait... if FFLs are exempt, then why the **** do we need an Armored Car Service if we can just waltz into Metroshot or TenPercentFirearms or Gunrunners or any kitchen table FFL? Or is there something I'm missing?

mblat
01-04-2008, 8:39 PM
Wait... if FFLs are exempt, then why the **** do we need an Armored Car Service if we can just waltz into Metroshot or TenPercentFirearms or Gunrunners or any kitchen table FFL? Or is there something I'm missing?

Absolutely nothing. Short of finding FFL willing to be arrested, probably prosecuted and int he process spend tens of thousands of dollars for legal defense in order to make the profit on selling magazines.....
I am sure that wouldn't be problem at all... :cool:

tenpercentfirearms
01-04-2008, 11:07 PM
Wait... if FFLs are exempt, then why the **** do we need an Armored Car Service if we can just waltz into Metroshot or TenPercentFirearms or Gunrunners or any kitchen table FFL? Or is there something I'm missing?

The problem is I cannot import large capacity magazines with out a permit. In theory, if I were to start selling large capacity magazines, they could revoke my permit. I would still be able to buy and sell, but I would not be able to import. In theory an armored car company does not need a permit and so they would be the ideal carrier.

Someday I might start working on this again. Life is just too busy. Plus, it turns out we might have a Constitutional right to militia type weapons and so we might not have to worry about this after the summer. THe onyl bad thing is I won't be able to retire early if I keep waiting. :D

hoffmang
01-04-2008, 11:19 PM
There is one ambiguity in the construction of the potential exemption for CA FFL's to sell. It is not ambiguous that they can buy however.

There is no such ambiguity in the plain text of the Armored Vehicle exception.

-Gene

.22guy
01-04-2008, 11:20 PM
Well, in that case, take orders for 6 months, import all those mags, and then sell them. Then they can revoke the license but it will be two late because you already have the mags in the state. It would probably be a cluster-you-know-what, but you'd make a pile of dough. :)

Ech0Sierra
01-05-2008, 1:48 PM
Hey, use the importation and sale of all those mags as your Swan Song just before you retire. ;)

AJAX22
01-05-2008, 2:07 PM
With regards to the FFL exemption, is the exemption only for sale? or can an FFL assemble the magazines in state?

Perhapse you could buy parts, import them and assemble them for sale?

also is it just 01 FFL's that are exempt? or can 03 FFL's do the same?

How much does it cost to get the mag permit? I'm sure that we could probably get someone to file the paperwork for the sole purpouse of importing and selling a big lot of magazines. someone who's livelyhood is not going to be jeprodized by having the permit revoked subsequently.

hoffmang
01-05-2008, 2:23 PM
1. As I said before there is a construction problem with a supposed FFL exemption allowing sales. As such, I don't think its a case we want to subject a CA FFL to. The exemptions only apply to 01 FFLs and further only 01 FFLs generally can get a large-capacity magazine permit.

2. There is no exemption from the prohibition on manufacturing for either armored vehicle services or CA FFLs.

-Gene

USN CHIEF
01-05-2008, 3:49 PM
How much will it cost to get a "Cal Gun.Net" armored vehicle service started? I am willing to drive such vehicle from AZ to CA.

Hopi
01-05-2008, 3:54 PM
How much will it cost to get a "Cal Gun.Net" armored vehicle service started? I am willing to drive such vehicle from AZ to CA.

What are the requirements for armored cars?

hoffmang
01-05-2008, 4:32 PM
The steps to create a bonafide armored vehicle service are significant and must be done exactly right including auditing and actually having customers and an armored vehicle that's been CHP inspected. This is not something I recommend a group or someone without real business regulatory experience attempt to do. Have confidence that at the appropriate time in the near future, this will come to pass. You've waited years, you can wait a few more months.

-Gene

artherd
01-06-2008, 12:16 AM
Yes, the armored vehicle COMPANY must be a real, going concern. Anyone who does not understand what this means should not attempt it.

camillus522
01-06-2008, 7:25 AM
That is just plain silly. Law Enforcement has no authority to take my legally possessed high capacity magazine and I will let them know so. They can't just take your property without due process and unless they can prove right there on the spot I illegally possess the magazine, they are not taking anything.

Unfortunately I had an incident recently that even while I was breaking no laws, a LEO who was misinformed thought I was. Even his chief believed I was breaking the law and they were threatening me with 2 felonies. they wisely decided not to arrest me, but they did seize both of the weapons I had in my possesion. It took several calls to the DA and 32 days to retrieve my property.

Basicly I was CCW on a college campus and the second pistol was unloaded and in a locked box in my locked trunk (which by the way has no external lock and no way to open it from the exterior of the vehicle). My snubbie slipped out of the holster in my vest and a student saw it and called campus police.

Conversekidz
02-11-2008, 3:44 PM
I thought you it was a felony to carry on a college campus, CCW or not.

Unfortunately I had an incident recently that even while I was breaking no laws, a LEO who was misinformed thought I was. Even his chief believed I was breaking the law and they were threatening me with 2 felonies. they wisely decided not to arrest me, but they did seize both of the weapons I had in my possesion. It took several calls to the DA and 32 days to retrieve my property.

Basicly I was CCW on a college campus and the second pistol was unloaded and in a locked box in my locked trunk (which by the way has no external lock and no way to open it from the exterior of the vehicle). My snubbie slipped out of the holster in my vest and a student saw it and called campus police.

kap
02-11-2008, 3:48 PM
Not if you have a CCW.

Better reference. Look at the bottom of the quote.

626.9. (a) This section shall be known, and may be cited, as the
Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1995.
(b) Any person who possesses a firearm in a place that the person
knows, or reasonably should know, is a school zone, as defined in
paragraph (1) of subdivision (e), unless it is with the written
permission of the school district superintendent, his or her
designee, or equivalent school authority, shall be punished as
specified in subdivision (f).
(c) Subdivision (b) does not apply to the possession of a firearm
under any of the following circumstances:
(1) Within a place of residence or place of business or on private
property, if the place of residence, place of business, or private
property is not part of the school grounds and the possession of the
firearm is otherwise lawful.
(2) When the firearm is an unloaded pistol, revolver, or other
firearm capable of being concealed on the person and is in a locked
container or within the locked trunk of a motor vehicle.
This section does not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful
transportation of any other firearm, other than a pistol, revolver,
or other firearm capable of being concealed on the person, in
accordance with state law.
(3) When the person possessing the firearm reasonably believes
that he or she is in grave danger because of circumstances forming
the basis of a current restraining order issued by a court against
another person or persons who has or have been found to pose a threat
to his or her life or safety. This subdivision may not apply when
the circumstances involve a mutual restraining order issued pursuant
to Division 10 (commencing with Section 6200) of the Family Code
absent a factual finding of a specific threat to the person's life or
safety. Upon a trial for violating subdivision (b), the trier of a
fact shall determine whether the defendant was acting out of a
reasonable belief that he or she was in grave danger.
(4) When the person is exempt from the prohibition against
carrying a concealed firearm pursuant to subdivision (b), (d), (e),
or (h) of Section 12027.
(d) Except as provided in subdivision (b), it shall be unlawful
for any person, with reckless disregard for the safety of another, to
discharge, or attempt to discharge, a firearm in a school zone, as
defined in paragraph (1) of subdivision (e).
The prohibition contained in this subdivision does not apply to
the discharge of a firearm to the extent that the conditions of
paragraph (1) of subdivision (c) are satisfied.
(e) As used in this section, the following definitions shall
apply:
(1) "School zone" means an area in, or on the grounds of, a public
or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or grades 1
to 12, inclusive, or within a distance of 1,000 feet from the
grounds of the public or private school.
(2) "Firearm" has the same meaning as that term is given in
Section 12001.
(3) "Locked container" has the same meaning as that term is given
in subdivision (c) of Section 12026.1.
(4) "Concealed firearm" has the same meaning as that term is given
in Sections 12025 and 12026.1.
(f) (1) Any person who violates subdivision (b) by possessing a
firearm in, or on the grounds of, a public or private school
providing instruction in kindergarten or grades 1 to 12, inclusive,
shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for two, three,
or five years.
(2) Any person who violates subdivision (b) by possessing a
firearm within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public
or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or grades 1
to 12, inclusive, shall be punished as follows:
(A) By imprisonment in the state prison for two, three, or five
years, if any of the following circumstances apply:
(i) If the person previously has been convicted of any felony, or
of any crime made punishable by Chapter 1 (commencing with Section
12000) of Title 2 of Part 4.
(ii) If the person is within a class of persons prohibited from
possessing or acquiring a firearm pursuant to Section 12021 or
12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and
Institutions Code.
(iii) If the firearm is any pistol, revolver, or other firearm
capable of being concealed upon the person and the offense is
punished as a felony pursuant to Section 12025.
(B) By imprisonment in a county jail for not more than one year or
by imprisonment in the state prison for two, three, or five years,
in all cases other than those specified in subparagraph (A).
(3) Any person who violates subdivision (d) shall be punished by
imprisonment in the state prison for three, five, or seven years.
(g) (1) Every person convicted under this section for a
misdemeanor violation of subdivision (b) who has been convicted
previously of a misdemeanor offense enumerated in Section 12001.6
shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail for not less than
three months, or if probation is granted or if the execution or
imposition of sentence is suspended, it shall be a condition thereof
that he or she be imprisoned in a county jail for not less than three
months.
(2) Every person convicted under this section of a felony
violation of subdivision (b) or (d) who has been convicted previously
of a misdemeanor offense enumerated in Section 12001.6, if probation
is granted or if the execution of sentence is suspended, it shall be
a condition thereof that he or she be imprisoned in a county jail
for not less than three months.
(3) Every person convicted under this section for a felony
violation of subdivision (b) or (d) who has been convicted previously
of any felony, or of any crime made punishable by Chapter 1
(commencing with Section 12000) of Title 2 of Part 4, if probation is
granted or if the execution or imposition of sentence is suspended,
it shall be a condition thereof that he or she be imprisoned in a
county jail for not less than three months.
(4) The court shall apply the three-month minimum sentence
specified in this subdivision, except in unusual cases where the
interests of justice would best be served by granting probation or
suspending the execution or imposition of sentence without the
minimum imprisonment required in this subdivision or by granting
probation or suspending the execution or imposition of sentence with
conditions other than those set forth in this subdivision, in which
case the court shall specify on the record and shall enter on the
minutes the circumstances indicating that the interests of justice
would best be served by this disposition.
(h) Notwithstanding Section 12026, any person who brings or
possesses a loaded firearm upon the grounds of a campus of, or
buildings owned or operated for student housing, teaching, research,
or administration by, a public or private university or college, that
are contiguous or are clearly marked university property, unless it
is with the written permission of the university or college
president, his or her designee, or equivalent university or college
authority, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for
two, three, or four years. Notwithstanding subdivision (k), a
university or college shall post a prominent notice at primary
entrances on noncontiguous property stating that firearms are
prohibited on that property pursuant to this subdivision.
(i) Notwithstanding Section 12026, any person who brings or
possesses a firearm upon the grounds of a campus of, or buildings
owned or operated for student housing, teaching, research, or
administration by, a public or private university or college, that
are contiguous or are clearly marked university property, unless it
is with the written permission of the university or college
president, his or her designee, or equivalent university or college
authority, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for
one, two, or three years. Notwithstanding subdivision (k), a
university or college shall post a prominent notice at primary
entrances on noncontiguous property stating that firearms are
prohibited on that property pursuant to this subdivision.
(j) For purposes of this section, a firearm shall be deemed to be
loaded when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell, consisting of
a case that holds a charge of powder and a bullet or shot, in, or
attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited
to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the
firearm. A muzzle-loader firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when
it is capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball or shot in
the barrel or cylinder.
(k) This section does not require that notice be posted regarding
the proscribed conduct.
(l) This section does not apply to a duly appointed peace officer
as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of
Part 2, a full-time paid peace officer of another state or the
federal government who is carrying out official duties while in
California, any person summoned by any of these officers to assist in
making arrests or preserving the peace while he or she is actually
engaged in assisting the officer, a member of the military forces of
this state or of the United States who is engaged in the performance
of his or her duties, a person holding a valid license to carry the
firearm pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section 12050) of
Chapter 1 of Title 2 of Part 4, or an armored vehicle guard, engaged
in the performance of his or her duties, as defined in subdivision
(e) of Section 7521 of the Business and Professions Code.

packnrat
02-11-2008, 9:15 PM
i have a collection of varies magazines, some very old, some are the so called evil high caps, most are just plane jane stocker mags, i keep them in a safe place at all times, execpt when going out of state were they are legale to be seen by the local leo, with out having a problem.:TFH:

in the prk if you have any doubht about a mag...just keep it out of sight.

artherd
02-11-2008, 10:00 PM
I have plenty of large magazines bought before the ban, and I bring them out all the time, right in-front of the eyes of the law. Possession is uncontrolled.

InFlamez
02-18-2008, 6:17 PM
Okay, I'll throw this one out there, hopefully people are still following....

If I had the ability to purchase "high-cap" rebuild kits from a person or vendor from out of state and refrain from assembling them myself but sell them as rebuild kits to others within the state...would I and how could I be in the wrong????

:rolleyes:

ohsmily
02-18-2008, 6:21 PM
I thought you it was a felony to carry on a college campus, CCW or not.

Fail.

hoffmang
02-18-2008, 6:47 PM
Okay, I'll throw this one out there, hopefully people are still following....

If I had the ability to purchase "high-cap" rebuild kits from a person or vendor from out of state and refrain from assembling them myself but sell them as rebuild kits to others within the state...would I and how could I be in the wrong????

:rolleyes:

If you are asking: "Can I import rebuild kits and sell rebuild kits?" The answer is yes, as long as you never manufacture large capacity magazines by putting them together.

-Gene

InFlamez
02-18-2008, 6:52 PM
Simply stated, yes that's what I was asking. Thank you for your reply. I was just wondering if I could be scolded for importing the rebuild kits in the event that someone did illegally assemble them, get caught, and refer back to me.

aohelsuks
05-01-2008, 11:11 PM
I'm 22 and our trucks have been searched by SD Sherrif in designated shooting area/BLM. Just looked at the AK, AR mags and all, looked at me. Didn't say anything about them asked if we had any alcohol/were drinking, we said no, they got back in their truck and took off.

eijjie33
05-01-2008, 11:56 PM
i'm 34 now,i have hi cap mags we bought before the ban but i no longer have the receipt to prove we had them prior to the ban will i get in trouble from LEO's if they saw me using them or just by having them?

hoffmang
05-02-2008, 12:15 AM
i'm 34 now,i have hi cap mags we bought before the ban but i no longer have the receipt to prove we had them prior to the ban will i get in trouble from LEO's if they saw me using them or just by having them?

No. The burden of proof that you imported or manufactured them after the ban is on the state. Also remember that simple possession is not prohibited.

-Gene

aplinker
05-02-2008, 12:38 AM
Where's the armored car already, Wes?

Santa Cruz Armory
05-02-2008, 6:26 AM
How do I replace my Butler creek 10/22 30 round mags. I'd love to replace the parts but they're a sealed mag... Can I just buy a replacement mag (if I could find someone to ship themto CA) and discard my old mags with the worn out lips?

socalarmy
05-13-2008, 12:55 PM
so if i am moving from texas back to cali and i have 20 round mags, i can keep them and use them as long as i dont give, trade or sell them to anyone?

383green
05-13-2008, 12:57 PM
so if i am moving from texas back to cali and i have 20 round mags, i can keep them and use them as long as i dont give, trade or sell them to anyone?

Only if you possessed them in California before the ban went into effect. If you did not, then moving to California with them would be importation.

socalarmy
05-13-2008, 2:17 PM
so are they stamped with a date of production? i have looked and not seen any markings

bohoki
05-13-2008, 2:35 PM
so are they stamped with a date of production? i have looked and not seen any markings

butler creek changed the logo a bit when they made the new ones after the ban

ramline changed the follower color to yellow after the ban expired they used to be red

eagle only made smoke colored mags before the ban all the new colors are made after the ban expired

glock mags made after the ban expired have their caliber designation higher on the mags than the old pre 94 mags

just cause it doesnt have a date code doesnt mean it couldnt logically or forensically determine the manufacture year

of course with the rebuilding parts may be new in a legal magazine

also since there is no law against buying a hi-cap mag if you buy one from some guy at a flea market i don't think that would be an illegal magazine

i guess anybody born prior to 2000 could be in possession of a larg capacity magazine it might have been a baby rattle they grew up with

that and the armored car worker exemption its crazy

exklusve
08-18-2010, 11:47 AM
The law makes it very clear that any "entity" that operates an armored vehicle business are specifically allowed to import and sell large capacity magazines. And as always there is no law restricting the purchase, receipt, or possession of any type of magazine. However, to be on tge safe side, I would limit the dealing of high caps to the owner of the business.

You should tell your friend to let the armored car business operator know about this unique opportunity currently available under CA law. The first person to take advantage of this opportunity would have virtual gold mine at their fingertips, easily making several hundred thousand dollars profit in a very short time.


Thanks for the reply back.
I deleted my post (quoted in your post) because I thought I answered my own question.
Thanks for clarifying this!

I'll have to call my buddy and see what he thinks about bringing this up to his boss.

pullnshoot25
08-18-2010, 11:54 AM
I'm 22 and our trucks have been searched by SD Sherrif in designated shooting area/BLM. Just looked at the AK, AR mags and all, looked at me. Didn't say anything about them asked if we had any alcohol/were drinking, we said no, they got back in their truck and took off.

Why did you let them search your vehicle? I would have told them to go choke on a donut.

exklusve
08-18-2010, 11:58 AM
hmmmm...
Armored car company right across the way from PRK Arms here in Fresno... Now that would be a dream come true.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&gl=us&g=5525+East+Lamona+Avenue,+Fresno,+CA+93727-2226&q=Loomis+armored+car+company&ie=UTF8&ll=36.760917,-119.703437&spn=0.002252,0.003251&z=18

cmichini
08-18-2010, 12:34 PM
Hi Everyone:
This question just came to me while responding in another thread. First of all, I'm an old guy and am fortunate enough to have "standard" capacity mags from before January 1, 2000. I was of legal age to own these way before the ban. My question is, can someone who is under 28 (21 years old plus 7 years since the mag ban) own over 10 round mags for handguns? Or be in posession of large capacity mags for long guns and under age 25? Exact birthdates aside..but you get the point. What do you guys think? c good

I think you (as a person) have to have just EXISTED prior to the ban to build a defendible case for possessing hi caps, so as long as you are older than the ban there is supportable case for possession before the ban.

Then it's on the prosecution to prove this didn't happen.
INAL and YMMV.

gotduck
08-18-2010, 1:26 PM
I think they can enforce though that if you have a high capacity for a certain type of gun that is manufactured after the CA ban on high cap. For example, If I have a high cap mag for GSG5, I think I would be in trouble

OleCuss
08-18-2010, 1:41 PM
I think they can enforce though that if you have a high capacity for a certain type of gun that is manufactured after the CA ban on high cap. For example, If I have a high cap mag for GSG5, I think I would be in trouble

If you are smart you aren't likely to have any problems with that.

As noted, the state has to prove that you manufactured the magazine, caused it to be sold, or imported it. So if you don't show them receipts or tell them that you did any of the above they haven't a case. Mere possession of the magazines is not a crime no matter how ridiculous it might be to suppose you got them legally.

An additional issue is that there is a statute of limitations of 3 years. So even if they were able to prove that you illegally obtained the magazine 3 years and 1 day ago - they can't prosecute you for an infraction.

Edit: Note that I'm not advocating for obtaining magazines illegally. And as a non-lawyer I can't give legal advice.

tetris
08-18-2010, 1:45 PM
ca penal code 12020(a)(2) reads:
"Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine."

That's all folks. VERY limited law.

What about stealing? I don't see anything forbidding stealing them. OK, so maybe they could prosecute you for the theft, but not for having the high cap mag, itself. If you get stopped, just say, "No, officer, I lawfully stole that mag!"

Decoligny
08-18-2010, 1:57 PM
What about stealing? I don't see anything forbidding stealing them. OK, so maybe they could prosecute you for the theft, but not for having the high cap mag, itself. If you get stopped, just say, "No, officer, I lawfully stole that mag!"


Even if you admitted to "stealing" the mag, if you stole it more than 3 years ago, then you would not be able to be prosecuted for the theft.

You will however, CURRENTLY, be in possession of stolen property. That would be a crime right now. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.00.

MaHoTex
08-18-2010, 5:12 PM
Sign me up for 1/2 dozen std cap mags for an XD9 and another half dozen for an M&P 15

Where do I send my payment? :-)

stix213
08-18-2010, 5:51 PM
I believe I read recently in a bwiese post that he and other "right people" personally are going to make public test purchases using a method other than the armored car exemption in the coming months if I remember the post correctly.

(forgive me bwiese if I don't have this correct)

Glock22Fan
08-19-2010, 7:11 AM
Well here's how I think it should work. The right person is anyone. And the right time is now. If not you, or me, then who? I'm looking into purchasing an armored car this week. I may even have a lead on a used vehicle from Juarez (no joke)! Get the car, get the license, drive to a NV gun show, drive back, start making some capital gains.

There are things going on that might make the mag ban a thing of the past. Nobody is saying much as they don't want to reveal the strategy before it is ready to blast the hole in the wall.

It might be that an armored car thingie wouldn't hurt this in the way that UOC has lead to Saldana's bill, but you could find yourself spending a bunch of money and then finding that the hole in a wall is now there, and that nobody wants now overpriced mags because they can buy them at the same price as in other states.

MaHoTex
08-19-2010, 7:19 AM
I'm planning on running this as a cash only business. I'm also thinking that mags will be priced at approx 3x the wholesale price in other states. Mostly to make up for the massive time cost, shipping cost, and $ stockpile I will need for my inevitable legal defense when the DOJ decides to make an example of me for obeying the law to the letter.

Ok.. I am good with that too... :cool2:

Pistolero Pete
08-19-2010, 8:10 AM
Is this law even enforced? To my knowledge no one has ever been convicted under this bogus law.

Zomgie
08-19-2010, 8:20 AM
This has to be the oldest living thread-jack ever.

inbox485
08-19-2010, 10:27 AM
I'm confused and I give up. :p
Stupid CA law. :mad:

So, do I keep my mouth shut and look the other way, when I run into non-exempt people with hi-cap mags for guns (for example. FN Five-seveN USG & Springfield Armory XD-45 Compact) that were not made prior to 01-01-2000 and they tell me they had them before the ban?

:Pirate:

Quite simply, YES!!! If they have a Hi-Cap mag that wasn't manufactured before 2000, there are still other ways they could have legally aquired them. If they have any sence at all they will refuse to discuss the origin of such items whether legal or not (see "Don't talk to police"). Barring evidence other than mere possession does not justify detainment or confiscation. That would be no different than detaining a person that looks too poor to own a nice pair of shoes on suspicion of stealing them. If somebody is in possession of something that is legal to possess, that person bears zero burden of proving they acquired it legally.

inbox485
08-19-2010, 1:45 PM
Although silence is the best course of action, it would be tempting to just say you picked them up last week at wal-mart. Nothing lllegal about buying high caps in CA.

It would be tempting to tell any officer that feels justified in harassing me w/o evidence of criminal activity where they can shove the hi-cap mag, but I wouldn't even make that much of a statement. Now that I think of it, if you stated that you purchased them at Walmart, you would be admitting to importation since Walmarts in CA don't sell handgun magazines. So the officer can claim that you implied that you bought them out of state last week.

desmark6
08-19-2010, 1:51 PM
Possession is not illegal. Just loaning, transporting, offering for sale, importing etc.

I hooked a parolee with a stolen Glock out of Washington state. So along with all of the weapons charges, felon with ammo, stolen property, we were trying to charge him with the high cap mag. We couldnt do it since there is not section for it.

Now, if we could only have proven HE was the one who brought the magazine into the state (date of theft was after the ban) we could've got him!!

thekidprodigy87
07-06-2011, 11:36 PM
I have a LOW threshold for risk. I am curious to know if there is any case law to challenge possession of large capacity magazine REBUILD KITS for someone who is not old enough to own high capacity mags to begin with.

Here is my situation. I am 23 now, so back when the ban was created I was no where near old enough to own a firearm. I am thinking about going out of state to front sight (Nevada) with a Sig 556 OLL with "evil features" and a bullet button installed. To my understanding, I can bring with me components to free up my magazine and make it detachable, provided those components are not installed while in CA.

Can I own high capacity magazine rebuild kits with the conditions stated above for the purposes of using them as high capacity magazines while out of state and returning them to rebuild kits before returning to CA?

I do not have a locking trunk. If I am pulled over for something, and the officer sees all my tactical bags/ammo or for whatever reason decides to search my vehicle and finds my sig 556 rifle, with parts (uninstalled to free up my magazine, ie. regular mag release), and several high capacity rebuild kits what can I reasonable expect to come of the situation, while in CA?

Can I turn my rifle into an AW defined in CA law while out of state in Nevada, then later return it to a CA legal configuration, along with disassembling my rebuild kit magazines before returning to CA? Or once my rifle is assembled in such a way is it then permanently classified as an AW regardless of its current condition?

Please show me any relevant case law, CA Penal Code, letters from BATFE, or CA DOJ to look for/at.

Please keep in mind I don't have the funds, time, or other resources to fight criminal charges in court. Any comments or suggestions are sincerely appreciated! Thank you in advance.

thekidprodigy87
07-07-2011, 12:08 AM
I guess to simplify one of my major questions above...

Can I buy High Cap Mag rebuild kits even though I don't currently, or have ever, owned an original High Cap magazine. In essence, what would I be rebuilding in the eyes of the law?

Ed_Hazard
07-07-2011, 12:10 AM
I have a LOW threshold for risk. I am curious to know if there is any case law to challenge possession of large capacity magazine REBUILD KITS for someone who is not old enough to own high capacity mags to begin with.

Any one can buy and own rebuild kits. Just cant assemble them into mags in CA.

Here is my situation. I am 23 now, so back when the ban was created I was no where near old enough to own a firearm. I am thinking about going out of state to front sight (Nevada) with a Sig 556 OLL with "evil features" and a bullet button installed. To my understanding, I can bring with me components to free up my magazine and make it detachable, provided those components are not installed while in CA.

Correct once you leave CA. you need to abide by the new states laws, CA. laws do not cross lines.

Can I own high capacity magazine rebuild kits with the conditions stated above for the purposes of using them as high capacity magazines while out of state and returning them to rebuild kits before returning to CA?

Yes


I do not have a locking trunk. If I am pulled over for something, and the officer sees all my tactical bags/ammo or for whatever reason decides to search my vehicle and finds my sig 556 rifle, with parts (uninstalled to free up my magazine, ie. regular mag release), and several high capacity rebuild kits what can I reasonable expect to come of the situation, while in CA?

If you remove Ca. compliant parts while in CA. and get caught you will be charged w/manufacture of an AW and miost likely go to jail. Wait untillyou are in afree state and remember to californicate the rifle and mags before crossing back.

Can I turn my rifle into an AW defined in CA law while out of state in Nevada, then later return it to a CA legal configuration, along with disassembling my rebuild kit magazines before returning to CA?

Yes.

Or once my rifle is assembled in such a way is it then permanently classified as an AW regardless of its current condition?

No., almost all Ca. compliant rifle start as regular rifles before being made CA. compliant prior to entering the state.

Please show me any relevant case law, CA Penal Code, letters from BATFE, or CA DOJ to look for/at.

Please keep in mind I don't have the funds, time, or other resources to fight criminal charges in court. Any comments or suggestions are sincerely appreciated! Thank you in advance.



Going back and actually reading the thread yu posted in would help as most of your Q's have been answered. Ohh and also :xeno:

Now that it has been said.

Ed_Hazard
07-07-2011, 12:12 AM
I guess to simplify one of my major questions above...

Can I buy High Cap Mag rebuild kits even though I don't currently, or have ever, owned an original High Cap magazine. In essence, what would I be rebuilding in the eyes of the law?

Not in CAlifornia, cant rebuild what you dont own.

thekidprodigy87
07-07-2011, 12:13 AM
Thank you!!!!!!!!!!

thekidprodigy87
07-07-2011, 12:20 AM
Not in CAlifornia, cant rebuild what you dont own.

Can I purchase high capacity mags out of state and then disassemble them prior to returning to CA. I would be purchasing them to train with at front sight's facility. Would these then be considered rebuild kits for a magazine I don't own. Or should I simply use 10 round mags and see if they will rent/lend me high caps mags for the time I'm training with them.

thanks again for your help

the_natterjack
07-07-2011, 5:47 AM
Can I purchase high capacity mags out of state and then disassemble them prior to returning to CA. I would be purchasing them to train with at front sight's facility. Would these then be considered rebuild kits for a magazine I don't own. Or should I simply use 10 round mags and see if they will rent/lend me high caps mags for the time I'm training with them.

thanks again for your help


Parts into and out of state. Assemble into working mags out of state, use out of state, disassemble before your return. Legal.

Brian

inbox485
07-15-2011, 9:41 AM
Can I purchase high capacity mags out of state and then disassemble them prior to returning to CA. I would be purchasing them to train with at front sight's facility. Would these then be considered rebuild kits for a magazine I don't own. Or should I simply use 10 round mags and see if they will rent/lend me high caps mags for the time I'm training with them.

thanks again for your help

There is no law against having all the parts to form a hi capacity magazine. In order to "rebuild" an existing magazine, the parts would have to be at least somewhat interchangeable. This comes up when converting a 15 round mag (or an 11 round mag ;) ) to a 30 round mag for example. In your case, you would just have a pile of parts for which no law governs. The law in CA would only apply if you assemble them in CA, or import them while assembled, or sell them while assembled. Magazines are magazines, parts are parts.

andytothemax
07-15-2011, 10:14 AM
I'm a lawyer and cannot advise a violation of law.

However, I can say that the statute of limitations is a potent weapon against prosecution for difficult-to-detect crimes that one decides to commit, especially victimless crimes.

If someone were to keep the newly built mags and the receipts for all the parts in a safe until the SOL ran after manufacture, he would have a perfect defense and would be able to possess the mags with impunity.

Another example, and this actually happened--although it was against my advice, someone I know transferred a pistol with several 15 round mags to a relative as a gift using the intrafamilial transfer exemption, without telling the relative that the mags were high-caps. There's no ban on "receiving" a high capacity magazine free of charge. The relative may lawfully possess all of the mags now, and the transferor is immune from prosecution in three years. I call that a fair deal. Isn't California great?

inbox485
07-16-2011, 11:25 AM
I'm a lawyer and cannot advise a violation of law.

However, I can say that the statute of limitations is a potent weapon against prosecution for difficult-to-detect crimes that one decides to commit, especially victimless crimes.

If someone were to keep the newly built mags and the receipts for all the parts in a safe until the SOL ran after manufacture, he would have a perfect defense and would be able to possess the mags with impunity.

Another example, and this actually happened--although it was against my advice, someone I know transferred a pistol with several 15 round mags to a relative as a gift using the intrafamilial transfer exemption, without telling the relative that the mags were high-caps. There's no ban on "receiving" a high capacity magazine free of charge. The relative may lawfully possess all of the mags now, and the transferor is immune from prosecution in three years. I call that a fair deal. Isn't California great?

I thought about mentioning that but it seemed outside the intended inquiry. The only thing I would add is that it is up to the prosecution to prove when the magazine in question was imported / manufactured, so even if the acquisition was yesterday, it wouldn't matter unless the people could prove it.