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View Full Version : Living For 32 Diablo Valley College**Oct 18th**


safewaysecurity
10-12-2011, 12:41 PM
I just learned today that Colin Goddard and possibly some Brady Reps will be having a screening of the gun control documentary "Living For 32" about the Virginia Tech massacre and gun control laws. I heard that audience members will be able to ask questions so was wondering if anyone on the board was interested in attending. I'm probably going to go and I believe it's sometime this month. I'll try to find out more later.

Update: Screening will be on October 18th at Diablo Valley College

Update 2: Okay guys I called even though I'm at work right now. The lady said it's from 4:00 P.M to 6:00 P.M and it's in the forum which is in the Library at Diablo Valley Colledge and they said anyone can attend and it's free.

NorCalK9.com
10-12-2011, 12:52 PM
I'm in Byron please pm me with details and i'll try to go.

safewaysecurity
10-13-2011, 3:44 PM
Okay I just found out that the screening is October 18th don't know what time or exactly where at Diablo Valley College ( I heard the Library possibly? ) but it's being held by the Model United Nations Club ( figures... ) and Colin Goddard will be there. There will be a discussion after the screening if you want to ask questions.

http://www.theinquireronline.com/arts-features/survivor-speaks-1.2646981#.Tpd2Tt4UqdA

Goddard's next stop: Diablo Valley College.
In an event sponsored by the Model United Nations Club on Tuesday, Oct. 18, there will be a screening of "Living for 32" in the DVC Forum that will be followed by a discussion with Goddard about the film and his experiences.

Librarian
10-13-2011, 4:02 PM
So, my first response was 'who the heck is Colin Goddard?' Answer here: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-04-12-virginia-tech-shooting-survivor-goddard.htm and here: http://www.aolnews.com/2010/12/31/colin-goddard-virginia-tech-shooting-survivor-fights-to-tighte/

safewaysecurity
10-13-2011, 4:04 PM
So, my first response was 'who the heck is Colin Goddard?' Answer here: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-04-12-virginia-tech-shooting-survivor-goddard.htm and here: http://www.aolnews.com/2010/12/31/colin-goddard-virginia-tech-shooting-survivor-fights-to-tighte/

Everyone knows Goddard. He's the poster boy for gun violence for the Brady Campaign.

Dreaded Claymore
10-13-2011, 4:12 PM
I can also probably go.

Going and asking questions sounds like a good plan. Let's use this thread to discuss good questions to ask and comments to make.

A couple of things we REALLY want to remember:

Personal attacks will be counterproductive.
Accusations of lying are also counterproductive, unless he says anything that is factually untrue.

safewaysecurity
10-13-2011, 4:18 PM
I can also probably go.

Going and asking questions sounds like a good plan. Let's use this thread to discuss good questions to ask and comments to make.

A couple of things we REALLY want to remember:

Personal attacks will be counterproductive.
Accusations of lying are also counterproductive, unless he says anything that is factually untrue.


Good idea. I've heard some of Goddard's past discussions and he seems to follow a narrow path of Brady talking points that he's memorized. For example if anyone brings up the fact that we should get rid of the gun laws because they don't stop anyone or that the law stops law burdens law abiding citizens. He will often respond with " Well people run red lights, does that mean we should get rid of traffic laws because people break them and it's an inconvenience? " We should ask questions while including a mini-rebuttal to such a statement we know he will make. If that makes sense.

Ubermcoupe
10-13-2011, 4:20 PM
...unless he says anything that is factually untrue.


Even still, let us be tactful while correcting. :thumbsup: Great idea safeway! Can we get someone to take pictures? :)

Dreaded Claymore
10-13-2011, 4:37 PM
Good idea. I've heard some of Goddard's past discussions and he seems to follow a narrow path of Brady talking points that he's memorized. For example if anyone brings up the fact that we should get rid of the gun laws because they don't stop anyone or that the law burdens law abiding citizens. He will often respond with " Well people run red lights, does that mean we should get rid of traffic laws because people break them and it's an inconvenience? " We should ask questions while including a mini-rebuttal to such a statement we know he will make. If that makes sense.

Yeah, it makes sense. Trying to predict what his rebuttals will be is an excellent idea.

As far as I can tell, one of his talking points is instant "5-minute" background checks. I think it's easy to argue that these are not a burden of any kind, let alone an undue one, on any law-abiding citizen, insofar as they actually are instant. More importantly, I think that non-gun-owners who attend the screening will think the same way. So, if he says he wants instant background checks for everybody, I don't think we should press him on that particular point, because our goal will be to persuade the neutral people who attend.

safewaysecurity
10-13-2011, 4:38 PM
Yeah, it makes sense. Trying to predict what his rebuttals will be is an excellent idea.

As far as I can tell, one of his talking points is instant "5-minute" background checks. I think it's easy to argue that these are not a burden of any kind, let alone an undue one, on any law-abiding citizen, insofar as they actually are instant. More importantly, I think that non-gun-owners who attend the screening will think the same way. So, if he says he wants instant background checks for everybody, I don't think we should press him on that particular point, because our goal will be to persuade the neutral people who attend.

When he talks about 5 minute checks he is saying that in reference to private sales. He wants all private sales so be accompanied by background checks. But we should mention that Cho bough his gun through a Dealer and went through a background check.

radioman
10-13-2011, 4:57 PM
safeway can you PM me with time and place, I would love to be there...

Darklyte27
10-13-2011, 5:42 PM
Tuesday, work, doh, would to see some video of this if anyone can, see hear what they have to say.

FastFinger
10-13-2011, 6:16 PM
The national, non-partisan, grassroots group "Students For Concealed Carry on Campus" has an excellent website (http://www.concealedcampus.org/) that should be checked out by anyone who plans to attend and be heard at Diablo.

Dreaded Claymore
10-13-2011, 10:53 PM
I just got done watching some of Colin Goddard on YouTube, and he's the best thing that ever happened to the Brady Campaign, simply because he's not addicted to hyperbole. If someone opposes putting people on the terrorist watch list onto the "can't buy guns" list, due to concerns about violating rights per the 4th and 14th Amendments, other gun control spokespeople will accuse that person of trying to protect terrorists and helping them get guns. Colin Goddard never says anything so ridiculous. He just calls for more stringent requirements and opposes more relaxed ones, and quite reasonably points to the fact that guns enable bad people to do great violence. That's very persuasive because it's true, and it's the reason we don't allow felons to own guns.

On the other hand, one thing Colin Goddard falls short on is whether a gun can help you in a life-or-death situation. He says that a gun is not useful in resisting violence, because he knows from his experience that you cannot react properly due to stress, and says that proponents of relaxed gun laws fail to take that into effect. This is not true, and I don't find it very persuasive. For instance, Goddard claims that you cannot train to compensate for stress that results from a violent situation. That is false, as many police trainers, private firearms trainers, and IDPA shooters can tell you.

SilverBulletZ06
10-13-2011, 11:04 PM
Easy rebuttal:

Mr. Goddard, you are here and follow the requests of the Brady Campaign, the same people who have applauded rulings that deny the right of the individual to carry a firearm. How can you say that the US would be a better place when the statistics say that there will be 1.5 MILLION times this year that personal firearms will reduce crime. 1.5 million less robberies, rapes, and murders. This number is roughly TEN TIMES the number of crimes committed by people with firearms, in which the majority of those people have illegally obtained said firearm.

Also, why would you support measures that directly increase violence and sexual assault against women? The rate for a woman successfully fleeing a sexual assault or rape is around 5%, the rate of an armed woman successfully defending herself against armed assault is 85%.

Finally, the successful defense against an armed individual like the one you had at Virginia Tech is greatly increased by armed law abiding people. You are here supported by those who are against those law abiding people who carry in supermarkets, malls, and department stores every day from stepping foot on campus with that same firearm. Perhaps you should rethink your position.

Dreaded Claymore
10-13-2011, 11:15 PM
Easy rebuttal:

Mr. Goddard, you are here and follow the requests of the Brady Campaign, the same people who have applauded rulings that deny the right of the individual to carry a firearm. How can you say that the US would be a better place when the statistics say that there will be 1.5 MILLION times this year that personal firearms will reduce crime. 1.5 million less robberies, rapes, and murders. This number is roughly TEN TIMES the number of crimes committed by people with firearms, in which the majority of those people have illegally obtained said firearm.

Also, why would you support measures that directly increase violence and sexual assault against women? The rate for a woman successfully fleeing a sexual assault or rape is around 5%, the rate of an armed woman successfully defending herself against armed assault is 85%.

This part is fantastic. :thumbsup:

Finally, the successful defense against an armed individual like the one you had at Virginia Tech is greatly increased by armed law abiding people. You are here supported by those who are against those law abiding people who carry in supermarkets, malls, and department stores every day from stepping foot on campus with that same firearm. Perhaps you should rethink your position.

This part is just stating the opposite of his position, but without providing any supporting evidence. It's basically saying "Uh huh!" in response to his cry of "Nuh uh!"

A better reply would be, "Mr. Goddard, you maintain, based on your tragic experience at Virginia Tech, that because of the stress that a threat to one's life causes, one can't respond to such a threat effectively with a firearm. If that is the case, what would you say to police officers across the nation who frequently respond with firearms to threats to their lives?" Then, if he wants to reply,* he'll have to explain why police carry guns if in fact they are useless.

*In my experience, when faced with such questions, someone on a pulpit simply declines to reply.

safewaysecurity
10-13-2011, 11:33 PM
Easy rebuttal:

Mr. Goddard, you are here and follow the requests of the Brady Campaign, the same people who have applauded rulings that deny the right of the individual to carry a firearm. How can you say that the US would be a better place when the statistics say that there will be 1.5 MILLION times this year that personal firearms will reduce crime. 1.5 million less robberies, rapes, and murders. This number is roughly TEN TIMES the number of crimes committed by people with firearms, in which the majority of those people have illegally obtained said firearm.

Also, why would you support measures that directly increase violence and sexual assault against women? The rate for a woman successfully fleeing a sexual assault or rape is around 5%, the rate of an armed woman successfully defending herself against armed assault is 85%.

Finally, the successful defense against an armed individual like the one you had at Virginia Tech is greatly increased by armed law abiding people. You are here supported by those who are against those law abiding people who carry in supermarkets, malls, and department stores every day from stepping foot on campus with that same firearm. Perhaps you should rethink your position.

Also mention that 25% of multiple victim public shootings are stopped by an armed private citizen including those that take place on school grounds. For example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_High_School_shooting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parker_Middle_School_dance_shooting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian_School_of_Law_shooting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Panama_City_school_board_shootings

SilverBulletZ06
10-14-2011, 1:56 AM
I guess you can add the bit about 25% of mass shootings. Also, you can ask what the alternative to self-defense would be, if he states "the police" you can read him the riot act from the Warren ruling, the three woman who are raped for hours after calling the police which ends with the state bearing no responsibility for personal safety.

yellowfin
10-14-2011, 7:16 AM
Much simpler and not involving statistics which can be spun to be only one side of the story and answered with bogus statistics that an uninformed audience will treat as equally factual, ask them what they think of equal protection and why a person living in Maryland deserves to die in a situation where the same person living in Virginia would live.

Zimz
10-14-2011, 9:23 AM
Anyone know what time this screening is?

FastFinger
10-14-2011, 10:04 AM
Easy rebuttal:

Mr. Goddard, you are here and follow the requests of the Brady Campaign, the same people who have applauded rulings that deny the right of the individual to carry a firearm. How can you say that the US would be a better place when the statistics say that there will be 1.5 MILLION times this year that personal firearms will reduce crime. 1.5 million less robberies, rapes, and murders. This number is roughly TEN TIMES the number of crimes committed by people with firearms, in which the majority of those people have illegally obtained said firearm.

Also, why would you support measures that directly increase violence and sexual assault against women? The rate for a woman successfully fleeing a sexual assault or rape is around 5%, the rate of an armed woman successfully defending herself against armed assault is 85%.


Point out that those stats are from fed gov studies, and have the details at hand.

I seem to recall a SAF handout that summed up a lot of self defense stats and studies, if that could be located it'd be great to print up a few dozen copies and hand them out, or get there a few minutes early and place a copy on every seat.

And, of course, have some CGN & CGF literature available - maybe the CGN/CRPA/Appleseed brochure.

safewaysecurity
10-14-2011, 10:17 AM
Can someone call the college and find the exact time and place of this event? I'm at work currently and am unable to.

sreiter
10-14-2011, 12:39 PM
he's very big on "you dont know how you'd react. even if i had a gun i'd freeze"

i'd bring up he doesnt know how i'd react either. his teacher reacted by blocking the door. if his teacher had a gun, he would have reacted with it Same goes for his class mate who after being shot blocked the door


lastly, brave men a women of police, fire, and military react when faced with life threatening situations everyday. putting on a uniform doesnt give one super powers. People react to life and death differently. He cant stand up there preaching, know having veryone would act, just because he too afraid to act/react

sreiter
10-14-2011, 12:49 PM
There's always the "if your mther/sister/wife/ girlfriend was being violently raped by 5 gang bangers. Would you rather have a gun to save their life or not. What if it took place on campus?

Could bring up status about 911 response times...and how many people are caught during those calls ..proving police are only useful as crime seen investigators.

When he brings up "VAT shooter passed background checks" remind him, we are innocent until proven guilty. he commit no crime, therefore he had every right to own. its like saying someone might get in a car ancient someday, so we better not let him drive.

If 10 round mags are enough for self defense, why donts carry them/ if cops need them because criminals have them, we need them too

safewaysecurity
10-14-2011, 1:28 PM
Sreiter his response to " you're in this situation, do you want a gun?" Is that its not that simple. I've heard him asked that question many times. He will bring up the story that one girl in his class was shot and killed while still sitting in her chair and if she had a gun then Chi would have two guns. So you have to formulate your question based on what you know his answer will be so change it up.

G60
10-14-2011, 1:37 PM
Yes, he will say "even if you had a gun, you would freeze up and not know what to do"

All you have to do is ask "is that what Liviu Librescu did?"

Dr Rockso
10-14-2011, 1:51 PM
He will bring up the story that one girl in his class was shot and killed while still sitting in her chair and if she had a gun then Chi would have two guns. So you have to formulate your question based on what you know his answer will be so change it up.
Cho already had two guns, meaning his gun holding capacity was pretty much saturated.

safewaysecurity
10-14-2011, 1:52 PM
Okay guys I called even though I'm at work right now. The lady said it's from 4:00 P.M to 6:00 P.M and it's in the forum which is in the Library at Diablo Valley College and they said anyone can attend and it's free. Hope we can get some more CGers to go.

oaklander
10-15-2011, 3:35 PM
I will try and make it - but have meetings all week on the Oakland stuff.

I encourage folks to attend - and try to engage the audience. Not Colin. Use HIM as a way to get the audience to agree with you.

One technique is to ask him "when did guns get bad?" Since without guns, there would be no America.

Norsemen308
10-15-2011, 10:30 PM
I just got done watching some of Colin Goddard on YouTube, and he's the best thing that ever happened to the Brady Campaign, simply because he's not addicted to hyperbole. If someone opposes putting people on the terrorist watch list onto the "can't buy guns" list, due to concerns about violating rights per the 4th and 14th Amendments, other gun control spokespeople will accuse that person of trying to protect terrorists and helping them get guns. Colin Goddard never says anything so ridiculous. He just calls for more stringent requirements and opposes more relaxed ones, and quite reasonably points to the fact that guns enable bad people to do great violence. That's very persuasive because it's true, and it's the reason we don't allow felons to own guns.

On the other hand, one thing Colin Goddard falls short on is whether a gun can help you in a life-or-death situation. He says that a gun is not useful in resisting violence, because he knows from his experience that you cannot react properly due to stress, and says that proponents of relaxed gun laws fail to take that into effect. This is not true, and I don't find it very persuasive. For instance, Goddard claims that you cannot train to compensate for stress that results from a violent situation. That is false, as many police trainers, private firearms trainers, and IDPA shooters can tell you.

Goddard is by far at the top of my "cannot stand these people" lists. I am sorry Mr. Goddard, that u where coddled all your life and when you where presented with danger you laid on the floor in a pool of your own blood with no idea what you should do... Your parents, your father, should have taught you how to defend yourself... For the whole, "people will freeze and do nothing"... please tell that to the heros of the Tucson tradgey... those who decided not to shoot but to tackle the man with the loaded gun.

MR. Goddard, just because your incompetency will weigh heavily on your mind for the rest of your life because of your inabilities to protect yourself and others, does not constitute that others will be the same waste of space in a stressful situation as you where.....

^thats why I will not be attending... In all his youtubes and his video, he rules that NO ONE can be better then him in that situation... No one could possibly be able to function under pressure, because he was there, and no one else has been there....

ebourqui
10-16-2011, 8:59 AM
http://www.contracostatimes.com/news/ci_19121627

safewaysecurity
10-16-2011, 11:47 AM
Lisa P. White covers Martinez and Pleasant Hill. Contact her at 925-943-8011. Follow her at Twitter.com/lisa_p_white.
if you go:
What: Free screening of "Living for 32" documentary
When: 4-5 p.m. Tuesday
Where: Forum auditorium,
Diablo Valley College, 321 Golf Club Road, Pleasant Hill
For more information about the film, visit www.livingfor32.com.

Dreaded Claymore
10-16-2011, 2:30 PM
Goddard is by far at the top of my "cannot stand these people" lists. I am sorry Mr. Goddard, that u where coddled all your life and when you where presented with danger you laid on the floor in a pool of your own blood with no idea what you should do... Your parents, your father, should have taught you how to defend yourself... For the whole, "people will freeze and do nothing"... please tell that to the heros of the Tucson tradgey... those who decided not to shoot but to tackle the man with the loaded gun.

MR. Goddard, just because your incompetency will weigh heavily on your mind for the rest of your life because of your inabilities to protect yourself and others, does not constitute that others will be the same waste of space in a stressful situation as you where.....

^thats why I will not be attending... In all his youtubes and his video, he rules that NO ONE can be better then him in that situation... No one could possibly be able to function under pressure, because he was there, and no one else has been there....

This is why I intend to ask what he'd say to Suzanna Hupp, who also survived a horrific shooting and watched her parents murdered in front of her, but who, unlike Goddard, thinks that a handgun would have made all the difference in the world.

safewaysecurity
10-16-2011, 2:31 PM
This is why I intend to ask what he'd say to Suzanna Hupp, who also survived a horrific shooting and watched her parents murdered in front of her, but who, unlike Goddard, thinks that a handgun would have made all the difference in the world.

That's a very good question. Hopefully you get to ask it. Can't wait to hear what he has to say to that.

BusBoy
10-16-2011, 3:28 PM
Hope someone shows up there with a sign, "Living OFF the 32"

:rofl: Thats Awesome! I'm tempted! :43:

BusBoy
10-16-2011, 3:30 PM
Here is a quote from the Colon in the Inquirer, the DVC college paper... Nice misdirection of fact... didnt the shooter purchase his gun legally?

"Background checks are a five minute inconvenience against the inconvenience of getting shot by someone who should not have a gun," Goddard said. "And I'm alive. Many families lost their loved ones during the Virginia Tech shootings and you can't even call that inconvenience."

BusBoy
10-16-2011, 3:42 PM
Also if people would like to leave comments to the story that covers his speaking appearance please do so... might be able to recreate the CSU Hayward (east bay) snafu. lol.
http://www.theinquireronline.com/arts-features/survivor-speaks-1.2646981#.TptrBZwu7XU

tommyid1
10-16-2011, 5:22 PM
this sounds like fun. who's all going?

Librarian
10-16-2011, 5:45 PM
Just some other details ...

Virginia Tech was April 16, 2007.

Susanna Gratia Hupp, October 16, 1991: Hupp and her parents were having lunch at the Luby's Cafeteria in Killeen Texas

As a survivor of the Luby's massacre, Hupp testified across the country in support of concealed-handgun laws. She said that had there been a second chance to prevent the slaughter, she would have violated the Texas law and carried the handgun inside her purse into the restaurant.

Then we have Joel Myrick in Pearl MS, who stopped Luke Woodward by confronting him with a pistol, October 1 1997 - 2 dead, 7 wounded, and Luke was prevented from going to another school and continuing to shoot.

And Jeanne Assam, at the New Life Church on Colorado Springs on December 9, 2007, who shot Matthew Murray and stopped his attack. - 2 victims died, 3 were injured, and Murray committed suicide.

It seems that others in a similar situation have different opinions on an appropriate plan of response.

santacruzstefan
10-16-2011, 7:59 PM
I didn't realize this was near me, I wanna go! Can I take BART there or something?

Dreaded Claymore
10-16-2011, 8:35 PM
...And Jeanne Assam, at the New Life Church on Colorado Springs on December 9, 2007, who shot Matthew Murray and stopped his attack. - 2 victims died, 3 were injured, and Murray committed suicide.

Oh Gods, I remember reading about that. That was incredible. Thank you for the reminder, Librarian!

BusBoy
10-16-2011, 9:26 PM
I didn't realize this was near me, I wanna go! Can I take BART there or something?

http://cccta.org/

Your station is Concord... Not North Concord. find the bus to DVC. I think its the #20 but there are others that may get you there sooner, not sure.

Librarian
10-16-2011, 10:59 PM
I didn't realize this was near me, I wanna go! Can I take BART there or something?

I'd take the 2:50 Fremont train out of Ashby to MacArthur, change for Pittsburg/Bay point there, get to Concord 3:22.

The County Connection route 20 is indeed the right one - nearest departure from Concord BART to DVC is 3:24, arrive 3:30, but it's a 30-minute schedule.

That's a pretty close connection, though the buses are not all that insistent on punctuality; I might take the 2:35 Fremont train, arriving Concord 3:07.

Zimz
10-17-2011, 1:53 PM
Is CC allowed on campus?

safewaysecurity
10-17-2011, 1:55 PM
Is CC allowed on campus?

By law yes but I don't know the schools policy on it. But you can't go to jail for carrying concealed with a valid carry permit.

Zimz
10-17-2011, 2:01 PM
By law yes but I don't know the schools policy on it. But you can't go to jail for carrying concealed with a valid carry permit.

Thanks, bold is all I care about.

Dreaded Claymore
10-17-2011, 2:29 PM
I'd take the 2:50 Fremont train out of Ashby to MacArthur, change for Pittsburg/Bay point there, get to Concord 3:22.

The County Connection route 20 is indeed the right one - nearest departure from Concord BART to DVC is 3:24, arrive 3:30, but it's a 30-minute schedule.

That's a pretty close connection, though the buses are not all that insistent on punctuality; I might take the 2:35 Fremont train, arriving Concord 3:07.

Some of us should meet at the station or something. I know I'd like to take BART.

big103
10-17-2011, 6:24 PM
I might have to go to watch. So there probably screen movie fist then Q and A.

Shoot me a pm if you going to have some meet first.

bernieb90
10-17-2011, 7:03 PM
Bringing up Warren v. DC always hits the antis in the gut. They have this fantastical notion that the cops will magically swoop down, and save them. Many liberals think that government is obligated to provide you with safety. Most if the time the police arrive after the shooting stops, and by then it is too late.

People learn CPR because there isn't a paramedic on every corner. They are often able to save lives despite significant stress.

There are thousands of stories of "regular" people using firearms to defend themselves or their loved ones.

emsp
10-17-2011, 7:10 PM
I will go, anybody in Livermore that wants a ride I can help.

bruceflinch
10-17-2011, 9:00 PM
Dang! & I have to work till 6 that night.

ja308
10-17-2011, 10:56 PM
Virginian tech asked by to exempted by VCC laws --thus giving this scum a govt guarentee he would not face an armed adversary.

safewaysecurity
10-17-2011, 11:11 PM
I think another good question would be that since the Brady Campaign advocates for "reasonable restrictions" what are 3 things they would consider unreasonable restrictions that they wouldn't support that are not completely out of whack because I have never heard of a single gun control proposal that they did not support or endorse. I guarantee they would have to think for a bit while if you asked any of us we could answer that in about 1 second lol.

big103
10-18-2011, 2:09 PM
Anybody else for sure going I going to be there. Is there going to be a meet before it starts.

safewaysecurity
10-18-2011, 2:12 PM
I could try and meet right outside the door of the screening before it starts I'm heading over right now.

big103
10-18-2011, 2:19 PM
OK I should be there a little before 4

WatchMan
10-18-2011, 2:41 PM
He will often respond with " Well people run red lights, does that mean we should get rid of traffic laws because people break them and it's an inconvenience? "

The red-light analogy seems pretty easy to smack down. Yes, running a red light is illegal, as it should be. We are all cool with that. Run red lights and get caught, you get in trouble. But I don't see the Brady campaign trying to ban cars, or certain types of cars, or asking for a mandatory waiting period before taking possession of a car...

Zimz
10-18-2011, 2:41 PM
anyone able to record the Q & A? I would be curious to hear some of the arguements.

BusBoy
10-18-2011, 3:35 PM
anyone able to record the Q & A? I would be curious to hear some of the arguements.


Hopefully I'll record it also going to go live in a bit also. Hope I don't mess it up

EDIT: TOTALLY messed it up... the wifes Xoom was crap for recording so I went with the iPhone and recorded the Q&A will upload and post linkage later.

radioman
10-18-2011, 6:29 PM
I was there, how the hell can you be pro active with a predator.

safewaysecurity
10-18-2011, 6:56 PM
I didn't get to meet all of you. Me and 3 other CGers stuck around towards the end and talked to Colin for about 20 minutes and got our pictures taken with him. He's a cool guy but we agreed to disagree I guess. We headed down to City Arms afterwards and checked out some guns. Really glad I went. Dreaded Claymore wanted me to post his pic but I'm isolated from my computer at the moment so maybe I'll post it tomorrow.

safewaysecurity
10-18-2011, 6:57 PM
Radio were you the guy that said there were lovely ladies in the audience? Lol.

emsp
10-18-2011, 7:29 PM
"there are some good looking ladies in the audience and it would be a shame if they got raped..."

quote from creepy old guy

schneiderguy
10-18-2011, 7:35 PM
"there are some good looking ladies in the audience and it would be a shame if they got raped..."

quote from creepy old guy

:eek:

oni.dori
10-18-2011, 7:43 PM
How did it go, any word? After action report? I am really curious.

radioman
10-18-2011, 7:57 PM
"there are some good looking ladies in the audience and it would be a shame if they got raped..."

quote from creepy old guy

That creepy old guy was me, have you ever had to stop a rape? I have! the point is, an armed woman does not get raped. OR did you miss that???

Norsemen308
10-18-2011, 8:15 PM
^BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA OMG thats classic.... So whats the consensus? what was it like today?

safewaysecurity
10-18-2011, 8:19 PM
^BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA OMG thats classic.... So whats the consensus? what was it like today?

I'll give a full report in a just a second. Just got access to my computer so I will explain.

safewaysecurity
10-18-2011, 8:42 PM
Alright. So basically what happened is it started at 4:00 P.M and the Movie was about 50 minutes long. It was about Colin's experience and how he now fights for tougher gun laws to save lives. The film showed video of Colin going to gun shows and purchasing from private sellers sometimes without even showing ID. There was also a point where a New York cop was showing a Glock 17 an saying how no civilian should own something like that and that it's a military weapon that only military and police should have, that really bothered me. Anyways the video was done and Colin came up and started talking a little bit about his experience and saying that he works for the Brady Campaign and why nd he also explain that he's not anti-gun and that he's 100% pro owning a gun in your home and that he might even one day own a gun himself. He then started to take questions and there was more against then for as far as people raising their hands. But most of the dissent were Calgunners I invited. Anyways I raised my hand and asked him when is enough gun control enough and how I've never heard of a single gun control proposal that the Brady Campaign thought was unreasonable. I also talked about how the Brady Background check hasn't really stopped 2 million people because over 99% of those denials are false positives and tha only about 30 people per year are prosecuted for being prohibited and trying to by a gun. I also mentioned that Island nations like England and Jamaica cannot blame neighboring states when their gun control laws fail and that crime has gone up in those countries even HIGHER than ours per capita. Colin kind of dismissed what I said by basically saying that I was getting my information from John Lott and that John Lott isn't a credible source even though those crime statistics are available from the countries themselves. Radioman talked about how women in college are especially vulnerable on campus and that they benefit the most from concealed carry on campus. Anyways after the Q&A we decided to stick around to talk with Colin and we actually had a very pleasant conversation for about 20 minutes. I informed him about some stuff he didn't know like how concealed carry is actually allowed on campus in California ( he claimed earlier that is wasn't ) and that we have won cases after the Heller case such as Ezell and he quickly corrected himself and said he simply forgot about those. Colin was a very nice guy and easy to get along with. He says he doesn't believe in preventing law abiding citizens from owning guns and I believe him and he told us that he knows that Brady Campaign leadership as well as members that are EXTREMELY anti-gun and would love to see peoples guns taken away as well as the Second Amendment eradicated but he said that's not his mission. I wish I included some more things in our conversation like how the Brady Campaign calls standard magazine " High Capacity Assault Clips " and how the law in California doesn't prevent crimes occurring with " high capacity magazines " but oh well. Hopefully you guys will see more when the Q&A video is posted. Dreaded Claymore requested that I post his picture with Colin so here it is.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a12/safewaysecurity/IMAG0085.jpg

otalps
10-18-2011, 8:55 PM
Why is John Lott not credible, especially when compared to Colin?

safewaysecurity
10-18-2011, 9:02 PM
Why is John Lott not credible, especially when compared to Colin?

Well Colin actually filled me in on something I didn't know. He said that Lott created a fake persona named "Mary Rosh" to defend himself on the internet which kind of lowers his credibility. Also I heard Lott say that the Columbine shooters lobbied their legislature against concealed carry. I had never heard about that and can't find anything about it anywhere and I emailed Lott about his statement and he didn't respond. But Lott's finding for the most part are all scientifically sound and based on government statistics and comparative analysis. His arguments are logically sounds so I don't think he can just dismiss them since Lott uses government statistics.

Dreaded Claymore
10-18-2011, 9:06 PM
Hahahahaha, I look funny in that picture.

Safewaysecurity summed it up really well, hopefully later he will edit the post and add paragraphs, haha. Colin Goddard told us exactly what new measures he was in favor of: background checks for private party transfers. He told us that he was not in favor of more and expanded gun control measures beyond that. I believe him. He's not anywhere near as anti-gun as the Brady Campaign makes him look.

I'm very glad I attended, because I thought that Colin Goddard was just a Brady shill, but I learned that he isn't. He's a person who had a bad thing happen to him in a very traumatic fashion, and is now proposing a public policy that he argues can prevent things from happening to others like they happened to him. (His documentary says that the VT shooter was adjudicated by a judge to be a danger to himself and others, but that this was not submitted to the database that does background checks. I haven't fact-checked that but I don't think he was lying.) Because the Brady Campaign has (comparatively) lots of resources, and advocates for similar measures, he has allied himself with them to spread this message further.

There are points that I disagree with him on, but they were not the main points that he brought forward. I told him that his alliance with Brady made me apprehensive about him, because the Brady Campaign wants to ban/confiscate all handguns even if he himself doesn't.

Thank you, Safewaysecurity, for posting the photo of me and Goddard.

Let the flaming of me begin. :cool:

otalps
10-18-2011, 9:08 PM
Ah, I do remember reading about the Mary Rosh thing, hadn't heard of the Columbine thing though.

safewaysecurity
10-18-2011, 9:18 PM
Hahahahaha, I look funny in that picture.

Safewaysecurity summed it up really well, hopefully later he will edit the post and add paragraphs, haha. Colin Goddard told us exactly what new measures he was in favor of: background checks for private party transfers. He told us that he was not in favor of more and expanded gun control measures beyond that. I believe him. He's not anywhere near as anti-gun as the Brady Campaign makes him look.

I'm very glad I attended, because I thought that Colin Goddard was just a Brady shill, but I learned that he isn't. He's a person who had a bad thing happen to him in a very traumatic fashion, and is now proposing a public policy that he argues can prevent things from happening to others like they happened to him. (His documentary says that the VT shooter was adjudicated by a judge to be a danger to himself and others, but that this was not submitted to the database that does background checks. I haven't fact-checked that but I don't think he was lying.) Because the Brady Campaign has (comparatively) lots of resources, and advocates for similar measures, he has allied himself with them to spread this message further.

There are points that I disagree with him on, but they were not the main points that he brought forward. I told him that his alliance with Brady made me apprehensive about him, because the Brady Campaign wants to ban/confiscate all handguns even if he himself doesn't.

Thank you, Safewaysecurity, for posting the photo of me and Goddard.

Let the flaming of me begin. :cool:

Actually Goddard said he supports handgun and rifle registration as well. He's also against shall-issue and concealed carry on campus. He didn't say the only other gun control measure he supports is background checks on all sales remember he said he doesn't know what he wants after that. I do think he supports strict gun control but not to the extent of the Brady's.

sfpcservice
10-18-2011, 9:20 PM
Were the columbine shooters old enough to lobby?

safewaysecurity
10-18-2011, 9:22 PM
Were the columbine shooters old enough to lobby?

Don't think there is an age to go and speak in front of the legislature.

otalps
10-18-2011, 9:29 PM
I thought I remembered a debate a while back between Colin and other survivors of the VT shootings. Found this, explains why he thinks Lott isn't credible.

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radioman
10-18-2011, 9:44 PM
I was impress with him, he made his points with out calling anybody names, unlike the bradys. I would stuck around but I had to get home, maybe someday he will see more of our point of view, but you can't put him down for his point of view right now. getting shot four times would mess with any ones mind. I would think he is under the brady flag right now as they are paying the bills.

safewaysecurity
10-18-2011, 9:49 PM
I thought I remembered a debate a while back between Colin and other survivors of the VT shootings. Found this, explains why he thinks Lott isn't credible.

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Didn't see an explanation in there.

Dreaded Claymore
10-18-2011, 9:51 PM
Actually Goddard said he supports handgun and rifle registration as well. He's also against shall-issue and concealed carry on campus. He didn't say the only other gun control measure he supports is background checks on all sales remember he said he doesn't know what he wants after that. I do think he supports strict gun control but not to the extent of the Brady's.

Agreed. With respect to those things, I think he's mistaken. However, I agree with what Radioman says about him:

I was impress with him, he made his points with out calling anybody names, unlike the bradys. I would stuck around but I had to get home, maybe someday he will see more of our point of view, but you can't put him down for his point of view right now. getting shot four times would mess with any ones mind. I would think he is under the brady flag right now as they are paying the bills.

Radioman, Safewaysecurity, Emsp, and you other fellows whose handles I forget, I'm glad I met you guys. :thumbsup:

big103
10-18-2011, 9:55 PM
Yeah great event great to see all the calgunners there. Dreaded claymore, safewaysecurity, epsm.

Nice to meet the people I did. We agree on something and others we don`t. I don`t think Colin dint seemed like a person that wants to take all the guns away. He mentioned how he is in support of a persons right to own a firearm in there home. Wish could have spoken to him longer but I guess he had to catch a plain.

There were some point that were flawed like how he bunched up suicide rates homicide rates and accidental deaths. Which I believe he should have broken down in there base sums. Instead of making it sound like 30,000 People are just killed by each other with firearms. Also the cop in the video saying people shouldn't own hand guns like the Glock also had me put off. Also the videos of him or some one else buying firearms at guns shows seem to show that the gun shows are just full of guys not running background checks on people. He said him self that one person did deny him a purchases because he couldn't show identification. And also that there is only a few of this guys at the gun show anyways.

But over all I think we helped a little gave info that he did not know about and were able to make are points without being totally put off.

Also he did not seem to be put off by the idea of him owing a firearm. He said he would own a firearm himself. Even thought he dint own one. Who knows maybe we can help him get one:43:



Oaklander should have come it would have been great to have you there.

clavagar
10-19-2011, 12:00 AM
this event was brought to my attention through schneiderguy and as a student at DVC i had lab just before so I figured heck, why not i'm not doing anything on a tuesday evening. I came in thinking this guy was very anti gun, but left happy that he understands how some of us don't want our guns taken away. i'd say the main thing more than anything that i disagreed with was his stance on ccw on campus. i wanted to ask him if he could rewind would you prefered to have had a gun on you that day it happened, of all people to be against ccw on campus you'd expect the guy who got shot 4 times defenseless to say otherwise. i was the guy sitting next to Dreaded Claymore, quite honestly i loved this as a good use of my time

safewaysecurity
10-19-2011, 12:10 AM
this event was brought to my attention through schneiderguy and as a student at DVC i had lab just before so I figured heck, why not i'm not doing anything on a tuesday evening. I came in thinking this guy was very anti gun, but left happy that he understands how some of us don't want our guns taken away. i'd say the main thing more than anything that i disagreed with was his stance on ccw on campus. i wanted to ask him if he could rewind would you prefered to have had a gun on you that day it happened, of all people to be against ccw on campus you'd expect the guy who got shot 4 times defenseless to say otherwise. i was the guy sitting next to Dreaded Claymore, quite honestly i loved this as a good use of my time

He has addressed that question many times of whether or not in the situation he was in if he would have preferred to have a gun or not. He says that when you frame the question that way that you are missing a big part of the picture and he really doesn't answer yes or no. He will point to the girl that was killed in her chair and says if she had a gun then Cho would have had 3 guns.

oni.dori
10-19-2011, 12:41 AM
He said that Lott created a fake persona named "Mary Rosh" to defend himself on the internet which kind of lowers his credibility.

You mean like they have been known to do? At least he was just defending himself, instead of trolling websites, thinking that they are self-righteously whitty.

Librarian
10-19-2011, 12:58 AM
He will point to the girl that was killed in her chair and says if she had a gun then Cho would have had 3 guns.

Sure, playing 'what if' is a fun game. If the student NEXT TO that girl had had a gun, Cho might have had a bullet in the chest.

emsp
10-19-2011, 9:15 AM
I am in complete agreement with Radioman, Colin was a well spoken and a great conversationalist. I was impressed with him and I agree that people like Cho should not have firearms. I do think that, after spending some time last night thinking, that if the gun show loophole was really what he was after there was plenty of footage to convince the viewer that he was anti gun. Why showcase JHP or a LE shill saying the G19 is a military weapon when you wanted to ban the gun show loophole? Colin was also vague as to whether he was shot with JHP or FMJ's, granted they both hurt but that is what a bullet is designed to do. Remember guns dont kill people (unless you pistol whip them lol). Cho was mentally ill and needed help, I think this is more of a mental health issue than it is a firearms issue because Cho legally acquired the guns but the information of his mental illness wasnt in the proper database. Can someone confirm this for me? I did think Colin was a cool guy and the Calgunners who stayed and talked to him after everyone else seemed to invoke conversation that was a lot less motivated by political means and more of people just talking. I think that if people who are for and against guns could st down and have a conversation about the issue thinkgs would be better.

I asked Colin if Calguns took up a collection to purchase him a firearm would he accept it and he said yes. So what does everyone think? Take up a collection to purchase Colin a firearm (JD Machine Calguns lower maybe?)? Show our support for him and prove that we can get along?

Radioman - sorry for the misquote

radioman
10-19-2011, 10:18 AM
emsp, almost all the girls in that room looked at me when I started to speak. I would hope that it made them think about it, girls and guns are a good match that is why so many gun owners are woman. you may have misquoted me, but you are right about one thing, it would be a shame if just one of them got raped for the the lack of a gun.

Stonewalker
10-19-2011, 11:04 AM
This is awesome guys, it sounds like you all showed up with positives attitudes, learned a few things and reflected a positive image of the gun rights/civil rights community. Regarding Jon Lott, if you are going to use his information in debate you have to be prepared to deal with the Mary Rosh stuff. Granted, as somebody said above, that does not invalidate his numbers and research, but still, it can be enough to convince the willfully ignorant that he's not credible.

Wish I was there.

safewaysecurity
10-19-2011, 12:12 PM
I am in complete agreement with Radioman, Colin was a well spoken and a great conversationalist. I was impressed with him and I agree that people like Cho should not have firearms. I do think that, after spending some time last night thinking, that if the gun show loophole was really what he was after there was plenty of footage to convince the viewer that he was anti gun. Why showcase JHP or a LE shill saying the G19 is a military weapon when you wanted to ban the gun show loophole? Colin was also vague as to whether he was shot with JHP or FMJ's, granted they both hurt but that is what a bullet is designed to do. Remember guns dont kill people (unless you pistol whip them lol). Cho was mentally ill and needed help, I think this is more of a mental health issue than it is a firearms issue because Cho legally acquired the guns but the information of his mental illness wasnt in the proper database. Can someone confirm this for me? I did think Colin was a cool guy and the Calgunners who stayed and talked to him after everyone else seemed to invoke conversation that was a lot less motivated by political means and more of people just talking. I think that if people who are for and against guns could st down and have a conversation about the issue thinkgs would be better.

I asked Colin if Calguns took up a collection to purchase him a firearm would he accept it and he said yes. So what does everyone think? Take up a collection to purchase Colin a firearm (JD Machine Calguns lower maybe?)? Show our support for him and prove that we can get along?

Radioman - sorry for the misquote

Yeh they were trying really hard to show that handguns should be banned. He was trying to show how fast handguns can fire and how a simple change of the magazine only takes under a second if you are skilled. The cop in the video was really slow at reloading though. I do not support background checks on private sales it's unnecessary and stupid and does nothing to thwart crime. Much like John Lott I don't really care for background checks from FFLs because the statistics show that it doesn't really do anything. When I brought up Fast and Furious Colin was familiar with it but I don't think he's really updated from the case or he's getting all his talking points from the Bradys because he said ATF agents didn't give the cartels any weapons but that cartel members went to gun stores and bought the weapons. But as we know with some of the new letters coming out the ATF did sell them weapons INCLUDING grenades. Pretty sure you can't buy a live hand grenade at a gun show or store.

Norsemen308
10-19-2011, 1:30 PM
well thats cool.

I still cannot respect the Collin, how can he sit there and say he doesnt want to remove guns from the home, yet he works with a Campaign that does nothing more then wish to remove every gun in this nation... I also dont believe Collin is STUPID enough to not realize they are shining him up as the Gold calf, while he keeps telling everyone he still likes gun....

I am sorry, thats called a hypocrite and a sell out, and the fact he is doing it threw a pool of dried blood that others spilled just makes me think even lower then him.

Just Dave
10-19-2011, 7:21 PM
Colin Goddard is a victim, his classmates were victims.
I refuse to be a victim.
It's that simple.

SilverBulletZ06
10-19-2011, 7:54 PM
Colin Goddard is a victim, his classmates were victims.
I refuse to be a victim.
It's that simple.

Well stated.

oni.dori
10-20-2011, 1:41 AM
Sure, playing 'what if' is a fun game. If the student NEXT TO that girl had had a gun, Cho might have had a bullet in the chest.

Just one? Just the chest?

BusBoy
10-20-2011, 9:18 PM
Sorry this took so long guys. Ive been swamped with work. I also apologize for the shaky came footage.. my freeking arm was falling asleep :facepalm:

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safewaysecurity
10-21-2011, 10:38 PM
That's me at 8:35 in the first video. Great job recording BusBoy! But man I keep saying "I mean" every 2 seconds lol. I really have to break that habit it makes me sound like an idiot.

big103
10-22-2011, 9:50 PM
Thanks busboy for posting up the vid.

sreiter
10-23-2011, 12:16 AM
He has addressed that question many times of whether or not in the situation he was in if he would have preferred to have a gun or not. He says that when you frame the question that way that you are missing a big part of the picture and he really doesn't answer yes or no. He will point to the girl that was killed in her chair and says if she had a gun then Cho would have had 3 guns.

That's the biggest crock of $h!t i ever heard.

So, he thinks Cho would have stopped to frisk every person he killed hoping to find a weapon?

And if he believes that's plausible, it's just as plausible that another student would have been able to reach her and retrieve the weapon for their use long before Cho got to her.

Sorry, this guy has a one track mind and will make any and everything fit into his agenda.

sreiter
10-23-2011, 12:27 AM
Sreiter his response to " you're in this situation, do you want a gun?" Is that its not that simple. I've heard him asked that question many times. He will bring up the story that one girl in his class was shot and killed while still sitting in her chair and if she had a gun then Chi would have two guns. So you have to formulate your question based on what you know his answer will be so change it up.

He could bring it up all he wants...I would hold his feet to the fire until he answered a direct question...you walk into a dorm room and see your mother and sister being gang raped. Would you or wouldn't you rather have a gun.

i would have also brought up how the military doesn't just freeze when they are being shot at. So his big talking point about freezing in that situation is meaningless

gunsandrockets
10-23-2011, 2:21 AM
How very odd for Goddard to come to California, in order to campaign for restrictions on private sales and for gun registration!

Obviously both of those measures haven't made a dimes worth of difference in California, as they have been the law here for many many years. Goddard should have been challenged on that point. (And if anyone did, good for them. I haven't watched the video yet to see if that was the case)

Sutcliffe
10-23-2011, 6:18 AM
Colin Goddard is a victim, his classmates were victims.
I refuse to be a victim.
It's that simple.


Goddard was a victim. He celebrates and profits from his victimization and wishes that others will be guaranteed victims as well. Exactly who does he serve? Society? Wanna buy a bridge?

oaklander
10-23-2011, 6:27 AM
well thats cool.

I still cannot respect the Collin, how can he sit there and say he doesnt want to remove guns from the home, yet he works with a Campaign that does nothing more then wish to remove every gun in this nation... I also dont believe Collin is STUPID enough to not realize they are shining him up as the Gold calf, while he keeps telling everyone he still likes gun....

I am sorry, thats called a hypocrite and a sell out, and the fact he is doing it threw a pool of dried blood that others spilled just makes me think even lower then him.

Brady trots out VICTIMS.

They have PTSD, which is normal after a bad event. But it causes them to think in an irrational manner, and they get a "moral high ground" pass. Our movement does the same (just not as much). Which is good, since I think what Brady is doing is morally wrong.

Basically, people like this guy are minstrel shows.

ONLY A FOOL WOULD THINK THAT A LAW WOULD STOP A CRIMINAL.

Also, there is simply NO WAY to ban guns. They are like water. Think about it. They flow everywhere, can't really be destroyed, except via heat, and tend to flow to low places. THAT IS EXACTLY WHY people like all of us want them. If the criminals have them, then WE should have them. This is the law in most other states, and we are making it the common sense law here.

Sent from my brain, to yours. . .