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ap3572001
10-12-2011, 7:07 AM
I understand us not being happy with new rifle registration law.

Question.

What will be the tangible effects on 2014?

How will this law really change things?

NotEnufGarage
10-12-2011, 7:30 AM
Police will know who's purchased a rifle after Jan 1, 2014 from a records check, so expect a request to search if you're pulled over or if they come to your home for some reason.

Not a problem for me. I have almost all the calibers I need/want (.22lr,5.56mm,6.8mm.308,.30-30,30-06) so I won't be purchasing any more long guns in this state after 2013. Too bad they'll be losing the future sales tax revenue of me upgrading.

a1c
10-12-2011, 8:15 AM
Police will know who's purchased a rifle after Jan 1, 2014 from a records check, so expect a request to search if you're pulled over or if they come to your home for some reason.

Wait. Why should we expect a "request to search if we're pulled over"?

Most of us have registered handguns. Has that triggered requests to search? Not in my case.

Shellshocker66
10-12-2011, 8:19 AM
Depends. Like stated by NotEnuf, the police can track who purchased the weapon and its legal owner. Now what happens when they try to run the number on a pre 2014 long rifle? We already hear horror stories of LEO saying "this gun is not registered" so what is to stop them from un-educated seizure? As a side note I frequently stop by my local police station for free child safe locks, last time I was in I talked to one of the old timers who was manning the community desk and asked him how he would rate the education of most of the LEO's in the department on firearm laws. His statement "Most of these new people have never touched a firearm prior to the academy and are extremely undereducated when it comes to the CA laws".

Now as to C&R collectors, it requires them to obtain a COE (certificate of eligibility) and pay extra money to still have guns shipped to the door. But it also opens some loopholes which are currently closed for C&R folks (check the C&R forum for more reading).

But its not 2014 yet and who knows what will happen between now and then.

yellowfin
10-12-2011, 8:39 AM
The effect is probably another lawsuit.

bden
10-12-2011, 9:24 AM
The effect is probably another lawsuit.

:rofl2: Get 'em! :D

donw
10-12-2011, 9:42 AM
it is my suspicion (maybe that should be read as 'hope') that it will be overthrown in court

NotEnufGarage
10-12-2011, 10:34 AM
Wait. Why should we expect a "request to search if we're pulled over"?

Most of us have registered handguns. Has that triggered requests to search? Not in my case.

It depends on the cop. When they run your name through the MDT, it'll come back showing you as a firearms owner. Depending on why they stopped you or came to you house, that might be enough suspicion (in their mind) to want to search. Whether it's a legal search is another question entirely.

a1c
10-12-2011, 11:04 AM
It depends on the cop. When they run your name through the MDT, it'll come back showing you as a firearms owner. Depending on why they stopped you or came to you house, that might be enough suspicion (in their mind) to want to search. Whether it's a legal search is another question entirely.

But again - many of us bought a handgun in the past couple of decades. Therefore, our name has been in there for years already. Never herd of a case where a LEO used that as an excuse to request a search. He doesn't need it. He can ask anyway, and you are free to refuse. Long gun registration is not going to change anything there.

vantec08
10-12-2011, 11:23 AM
Nail Gun. No DROS, no registration.


http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss152/vantec08/dewalt.jpg

LAWABIDINGCITIZEN
10-12-2011, 11:27 AM
But again - many of us bought a handgun in the past couple of decades. Therefore, our name has been in there for years already. Never herd of a case where a LEO used that as an excuse to request a search. He doesn't need it. He can ask anyway, and you are free to refuse. Long gun registration is not going to change anything there.

This, Exactly.

Mesa Tactical
10-12-2011, 11:38 AM
The only effect will be it will take a little longer to DROS rifles.

liketoshoot
10-12-2011, 11:43 AM
30 day wait between purchase of new rifles??????

SteveH
10-12-2011, 12:15 PM
I understand us not being happy with new rifle registration law.

Question.

What will be the tangible effects on 2014?

How will this law really change things?

Harder to hide your long guns during a divorse.

dantodd
10-12-2011, 12:22 PM
Three real effects.

The only effect that you are likely to see is when buying a rifle, I suspect you will no longer be able to "add on" an additional rifle at the end of the wait and I believe that you will have to do a separate DROS for each gun which will increase the cost of purchasing multiple firearms at one time.

Another effect that you are unlikely to ever see is in the event you become a prohibited person, by criminal conviction or being adjudicated mentally incompetent. In such cases the police will now be able to identify the firearms that you own and will have a shopping list when they come over to make sure you are compliant with the law.

Finally, if/when you have a rifle stolen it will be easier for police to track down the rightful owner should it be recovered.

NorCalK9.com
10-12-2011, 12:35 PM
Nail Gun. No DROS, no registration.


http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss152/vantec08/dewalt.jpg

Please tell me if thats a real ar15 or a nail gun Im feeling mighty dumb rite now lol

NorCalK9.com
10-12-2011, 12:40 PM
Police will know who's purchased a rifle after Jan 1, 2014 from a records check, so expect a request to search if you're pulled over or if they come to your home for some reason.

Not a problem for me. I have almost all the calibers I need/want (.22lr,5.56mm,6.8mm.308,.30-30,30-06) so I won't be purchasing any more long guns in this state after 2013. Too bad they'll be losing the future sales tax revenue of me upgrading.

Im with you on this one now I need to buy an AR fast and thats pretty much all I NEED!
Or move to nevada

TRICKSTER
10-12-2011, 12:45 PM
It depends on the cop. When they run your name through the MDT, it'll come back showing you as a firearms owner. Depending on why they stopped you or came to you house, that might be enough suspicion (in their mind) to want to search. Whether it's a legal search is another question entirely.

That's not even close to being how the system works. It is a specific search and does not come up in a general warrant or drivers license check.
In my 30+ year career, I never, nor did I see any other officer, run a check to see if someone had weapons registered to them unless it had something to do with what we were investigating, or we were serving arrest or search warrants for something serious. :TFH:

supersonic
10-12-2011, 1:08 PM
Nail Gun. No DROS, no registration.


http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss152/vantec08/dewalt.jpg

This can't be "real." There's nowhere for the nail cartridge to go. I have a hunch that is a real carbine with a very creative owner. Once he figured out that a DeWalt NiCd battery fit into the magwell, all that was left was to shoot the furniture with good old French's Mustard Yellow.:)


EDIT: ....aaahhh, now I get it!

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb181/giftedgiver/Dewalt-16BattDetail.jpg

bwiese
10-12-2011, 1:29 PM
Practical problems...

...a knowledgable ARFcom cop says that the way records of gun reg are displayed on MDTs likely will result in long guns first then handguns, and with lots of long guns the handguns may go onto subsequent 'pages' that are not that easily fetched/indicated on an MDT.

So someone with an improperly stored handgun could get popped initially with felony CCW charges [and jail/elevated bail instead of possibly O.R.] because cop didn't see that particular handgun on the first page of MDT display, and not until mailed paperwork arrives from DOJ would this necessarily get resolved.

I am unclear if this varies from county to county/brand to brand MDT implementation or not.

frankm
10-12-2011, 1:38 PM
I'm going to preload my kids with weapons. And advocate everyone I know to do the same. Black rifles all around.

Then if the lawsuit fails, they'll only have to register anything they buy later on.

mscales5
10-12-2011, 1:40 PM
Doing a DROS on a long gun like with a hand gun does have a up side. Hand guns being transfered by PPT can turn up a stolen gun if the ser. # has been reported. Not so with the long gun DROS as it stands now. A stolen long gun can be sold PPT and never show up. If they register a long gun like a hand gun, make, model, cal and serial number, then if a stolen long gun is taken to a FFL for a PPT it will show up as stolen as long as it was reported. Over the years I have had a couple stolen hand guns brought in for a PPT and received notification from the DOJ to hold the firearm.

The down side to the long gun registration is they will now know who buys what. But as far as I know they heve not changed/repealed the law on keeping the long gun information after the waiting period. As it is now all long gun info, purchase date and number purchased is destroyed after 30 days. Was the old law repealed?

greybeard
10-12-2011, 1:46 PM
30 day wait between purchase of new rifles??????
Yep or even one gun a month your pick, handgun, rifle or shotgun.

vantec08
10-12-2011, 2:18 PM
Please tell me if thats a real ar15 or a nail gun Im feeling mighty dumb rite now lol

ummm . . .its a prop

fallbrook79
10-12-2011, 2:42 PM
well for one it is a violation of the second ammendment infringe means to limit also and it is so when they ban guns all together they know where to go to get them it might be 50 100 150 or 10 years down the road but that is the direction california is heading imho



in·fringe/inˈfrinj/Verb: 1.Actively break the terms of (a law, agreement, etc.): "infringe a copyright".
2.Act so as to limit or undermine (something); encroach on: "infringe on his privacy".

califchoate
10-12-2011, 3:54 PM
I may be cynical, but I fully expect that there will be a follow-up bill in the not too distant future requiring ALL long guns currently owned to be registered. After all, that's what we have with handguns.

berto
10-12-2011, 4:03 PM
I may be cynical, but I fully expect that there will be a follow-up bill in the not too distant future requiring ALL long guns currently owned to be registered. After all, that's what we have with handguns.

Really?

CaliforniaLiberal
10-12-2011, 4:14 PM
I may be cynical, but I fully expect that there will be a follow-up bill in the not too distant future requiring ALL long guns currently owned to be registered. After all, that's what we have with handguns.


Nuh-uh.



DOJ BOF FAQ

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.php

26. How do I know if my firearms need to be registered?

There is no firearm registration requirement in California except for assault weapon owners and personal handgun importers. However, you may submit a Firearm Ownership Record to the DOJ for any firearm you own. Having a Firearm Ownership Record on file with the DOJ may help in the return of your firearm if it is lost or stolen. With very few and specific exceptions, all firearm transactions must be conducted through a firearms dealer.



When you buy a handgun in California the FFL creates a Record of Sale that goes to the CA DOJ. There is no requirement that your guns be registered or that you show proof of registration on demand. There are several legal ways that you may have come to own a handgun with no record of its sale kept at the DOJ.

There is no requirement that CA gun owners report the handguns that they owned before the current laws were passed. Don't see any reason to expect that there will ever be a requirement that long guns owned before this new law takes effect will have to be reported either.

califchoate
10-12-2011, 6:10 PM
I am happy to be wrong.

Patrick Aherne
10-12-2011, 10:04 PM
Practical problems...

...a knowledgable ARFcom cop says that the way records of gun reg are displayed on MDTs likely will result in long guns first then handguns, and with lots of long guns the handguns may go onto subsequent 'pages' that are not that easily fetched/indicated on an MDT.

So someone with an improperly stored handgun could get popped initially with felony CCW charges [and jail/elevated bail instead of possibly O.R.] because cop didn't see that particular handgun on the first page of MDT display, and not until mailed paperwork arrives from DOJ would this necessarily get resolved.

I am unclear if this varies from county to county/brand to brand MDT implementation or not.

It doesn't. If you run my record, you find stuff that I owned years ago and sold, but not all of my more recent purchases, they are on the second and third pages of my handguns registered to records. DOJ has problems taking out pistols that I legally transferred to another individual, the likelihood that they can successfully track what i currently own is laughable.

AR15Fan is right, though, some uninformed cop will go off the computer record, instead of the mailed, correct record and hook an illegally concealed weapon carrier for a felony.

Perhaps, CGF should inform former AG Brown of this flaw in the registration system and its unintended effects.

ja308
10-13-2011, 7:05 AM
I may be cynical, but I fully expect that there will be a follow-up bill in the not too distant future requiring ALL long guns currently owned to be registered. After all, that's what we have with handguns.

Unfortunately ,You are correct!
Only question is how long will the democratic party of california wait until it gets proposed?

It may be too early for a relocation ,but a perfect time for planning same .

maddoggie13
10-13-2011, 7:08 AM
Buying lots of rifles and shotguns before 2014...I mean lots and lots of them.

ja308
10-13-2011, 7:41 AM
Curiuos about why the long gun registration law was written and signed ?

according to a few on CGs it has and will zero effect .

JPFO.org has some interesting research on this topic .

mjmagee67
10-13-2011, 7:50 AM
I really don't think your gun ownership status comes back on a routine check during a traffic stop. But I'll ask some of my LEO friends the next time I see them. I have called in for background info while doing arson investigation and there was no gun ownership info given.

tenpercentfirearms
10-13-2011, 7:52 AM
Buying lots of rifles and shotguns before 2014...I mean lots and lots of them.

I don't think it will get that far, but if it does, it will be interesting to see if we get an increase in sales which might decrease supply.

tackdriver
10-13-2011, 8:10 AM
Does anyone know if this will affect mail ordering AR uppers??

a1c
10-13-2011, 8:17 AM
Does anyone know if this will affect mail ordering AR uppers??

It shouldn't. Uppers are not firearms.

littlejake
10-13-2011, 8:52 AM
It doesn't. If you run my record, you find stuff that I owned years ago and sold, but not all of my more recent purchases, they are on the second and third pages of my handguns registered to records. DOJ has problems taking out pistols that I legally transferred to another individual, the likelihood that they can successfully track what i currently own is laughable.

AR15Fan is right, though, some uninformed cop will go off the computer record, instead of the mailed, correct record and hook an illegally concealed weapon carrier for a felony.

Perhaps, CGF should inform former AG Brown of this flaw in the registration system and its unintended effects.

Same experience here. I did an AFIS check in 2007 and found several mistakes. One was a HG that I had put on consignment, then taken back (via re-DROS); then sold PPT through a dealer. In effect, it had been DROS'ed to me twice -- but, only on instance removed.

An AFIS in 2010 shows some HGs I sold legally, through dealers, many years ago. They were not on my 2007 AFIS. I think DOJ/BOF under AG Harris is going back and entering some very old DROS records (circa 1969.) Plus, two HG's that I legally transferred through dealers, and had sent in NLIPs in on -- showed up in 2010 as on my AFIS report; acknowledged the NLIP, but still reappeared on my AFIS.

I believe that if CA DOJ/BOF cannot connect the dots -- they are putting HGs back on the last known owner's AFIS.

Note: I have never transferred a HG that did not got either to or through a dealer -- even back in the days when private transfers were legal.

Result, the AFIS system is so Fubar that it is useless!

notme92069
10-13-2011, 9:11 AM
Three real effects.

The only effect that you are likely to see is when buying a rifle, I suspect you will no longer be able to "add on" an additional rifle at the end of the wait and I believe that you will have to do a separate DROS for each gun which will increase the cost of purchasing multiple firearms at one time.

Another effect that you are unlikely to ever see is in the event you become a prohibited person, by criminal conviction or being adjudicated mentally incompetent. In such cases the police will now be able to identify the firearms that you own and will have a shopping list when they come over to make sure you are compliant with the law.

Finally, if/when you have a rifle stolen it will be easier for police to track down the rightful owner should it be recovered.

And of course we will have LEOs that will demand to know "Why isn't this rifle registered?" even though there are probably millions of existing unregistered long guns,

zfields
10-13-2011, 9:21 AM
Right, because we are already harassed all the time for our handguns.....

notme92069
10-13-2011, 10:05 AM
Right, because we are already harassed all the time for our handguns.....

I have a friend who has been in Ca since about 1978 and when his house was broken into the LEO, that personally knows him and his weapons, asked exactly that about a handgun that was stolen and was acquired prior to 1991. If it hasn't happened to you it must be untrue????

Wherryj
10-20-2011, 7:36 AM
The effect is probably another lawsuit.

...and if the lawsuit fails for whatever reason, the long gun registration costs just serve to speed up the eventual bankruptcy of the state of CA.

Wherryj
10-20-2011, 7:38 AM
Nail Gun. No DROS, no registration.


http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss152/vantec08/dewalt.jpg

If only Porter Cable had a matching nail gun line, I'd be so there.