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FatalKitty
10-11-2011, 9:55 PM
What is the deal with these?

I have never had my trigger/hammer pins go anywhere they weren't supposed to
I've fired over 5k rounds through my Dissy AR since I finished it in like April or June... much of it in aggressive courses.

my friend got some new fangled anti-walk pins for his AR and I can't understand why... he said he wanted to "over-engineer" that "vulnerable" part of the weapon.

what if your trigger spring breaks? now you need special tools to fix it! :TFH:

get this, the first set of anti-walk pins he had... he ended up loosing a c-clip that holds the things in... and had to get a new "better, more functional" style :facepalm:

what's your opinion CGN?

pacrimguru
10-11-2011, 10:00 PM
basically, you don't need them, but they look cool. some 9mm builds can benefit from them and some people like the "cheap insurance". this topic has been debated ad nauseam.

captbilly
10-11-2011, 10:24 PM
I have used anti walk pins on target rifles because many of them fit better than the standard pins. This keeps the trigger sear in consistent alighnment so that you can set the trigger to have less sear engagement and not make the gun unsafe (no sear engagement). I also had a Jard trigger that simply would not retain the pins, theynsimply walked out the side ofmthe receiver, so I used the kns anti-walk pins and got both tighter fit and no walk. There are also some people who feel that the constant rotating of the pins will cause the pin holes to slowly enlarge, so that the trigger will get looser and looser over time (eventually ruining the receiver. Geissele supplies tighter pins with their match trigger, so that the trigger can be more precisely adjusted and stays that way.

Merc1138
10-11-2011, 10:26 PM
Tell this friend of yours that for only $29.99 I'll sell him a reel of specially made material that will keep the brass marks off of his deflector. It even comes in tactical black.

http://www.wiringproducts.com/contents/media/electrical_tape.jpg

FatalKitty
10-11-2011, 10:27 PM
basically, you don't need them, but they look cool. some 9mm builds can benefit from them and some people like the "cheap insurance". this topic has been debated ad nauseam.

I am in the middle of a 9mm build! and I know you've done it before... why might my new 9mm AR need anti-walk pins?


Tell this friend of yours that for only $29.99 I'll sell him a reel of specially made material that will keep the brass marks off of his deflector. It even comes in tactical black.

http://www.wiringproducts.com/contents/media/electrical_tape.jpg

LOL I will let him know!
I did make the joke the other day when he didn't want to go shooting in the rain with me because he didn't want to have to clean the rust off his gun later that he "needs to put some rounds through that gun someday!" and he said "dude, i've put at least 500 rounds through it!" LOL

Grumpyoldretiredcop
10-11-2011, 10:29 PM
Older/heavily used receivers can wear to the point that pin retention becomes a problem. I have a Colt SP1 that had that problem after many thousands of rounds.

AfisBoy
10-11-2011, 10:47 PM
I had two lowers of the same make. With one, the stock pins held tightly. The other, the pins would work their way out every time I took it out. Weird. I guess it could have been the pins themselves, I never took the time to figure that out. I just went with the anti-walk for that lower.

NYY
10-11-2011, 10:52 PM
damn, it sure helped with me... for some reason... my pins would glide out sometimes, thus not allowing for a pull of the trigger. So, i bought the anti-rotational pins. problem solved! and i feel safer

pacrimguru
10-11-2011, 11:40 PM
I am in the middle of a 9mm build! and I know you've done it before... why might my new 9mm AR need anti-walk pins?

using a non-ramped bolt for a 9mm AR build causes more stress on an AR's hammer pin's center where the hammer J-spring notch is. this extra force could also wear the hammer pin holes in the lower quicker or even outright break the hammer pin at the J-spring notch. the anti-walk pins help the hammer pin from wearing the pin hole by limiting its rotation and are said to be stronger than the original pins.

but in order to really solve the problem, you need to ramp your 9mm bolt OR (and this is what i did) simply use a ramped bolt to begin with. a ramped bolt needs to be used with a rounded head hammer too btw.

even though i have a ramped bolt, my 9mm build has anti-walk pins anyway for both: cheap insurance and cool looks.

jgraham15
10-12-2011, 2:38 AM
I started running KNS anti-walk pins on my registered AOW lower because it is the only one I have and it's cheap insurance. I really don't want to screw up that lower!

So when I built my first OLL lower back in 2002 I used the anti-walk pins on that lower because we weren't sure how long we would be able to buy these OLL's and I didn't want to screw up that lower either.

Now I just use them as cheap insurance. Are they just a useless accessory?

Not in my opinion, but your opinion may vary.

shadow65
10-12-2011, 4:42 AM
I use them in all my builds. The only special tool you need is a proper sized allen wrench.
Dave N

h0use
10-12-2011, 6:11 AM
I also use then in my builds as a cheap insurance.You can go wrong and like every one else said they just look darn cool. they don't cost that much. I use kns by the way.

Sunday
10-12-2011, 6:21 AM
They look neat but how long do the M16s last firing burst/full auto? There is an interesting article called Filthy 14 on a training Ar15 type that fired 30,000 rounds. remember you can buy a lower for way under $150.00

FatalKitty
10-12-2011, 9:03 AM
I don't even think they look neat. I think they look like someone walked into a gun store and said "give me one of everything"

to me form follows function - and I don't see a function (unless you have a lower that is old, or a fancy trigger that doesn't fit the gun well??)

cheep insurance for me is having readily repairable and replaceable parts on hand, not something that uses a proprietary wrench/fastener that now takes you 3x as long to fix.

21SF
10-12-2011, 9:24 AM
I don't even think they look neat. I think they look like someone walked into a gun store and said "give me one of everything"

to me form follows function - and I don't see a function (unless you have a lower that is old, or a fancy trigger that doesn't fit the gun well??)

cheep insurance for me is having readily repairable and replaceable parts on hand, not something that uses a proprietary wrench/fastener that now takes you 3x as long to fix.

There you go, problem solved.

bohoki
10-12-2011, 10:20 AM
i had a problem with pins walking out i fixed it the pins grooves were not deep enough so i chucked them in a drill and filed the grooves a bit deeper

also on a couple builds one a 50 they used a propriatary hammer that didnt have the little j hook

FeuerFrei
10-12-2011, 12:05 PM
Timney drop in triggers use set screws to tighten up once it is installed.
I installed KNS pins for redundancy sake. Fire and forget.

HighLander51
10-12-2011, 1:53 PM
Anit Walk locks are supposed to keep the trigger pins from rotating in the lower receiver and causing undue wear on that part, not just falling out. I have them on 2 of my 3 AR's, but only becauase I got them as match product. Normally you would run into the 50,000 round count before noticing any issues, and usually the first thing to go is the barrel because of throat erosion.

bombadillo
10-12-2011, 2:07 PM
I put KNS pins in one of my builds when it was the tacticool rifle, but all in all, I don't think most need them unless their lower or something else is out of spec. I've NEVER had a pin walk on me and I've fired I don't even know how many thousands of rounds out of AR's from steel, to match loads, to everything in between and no pin walk.

motorwerks
10-12-2011, 2:11 PM
this topic has been debated ad nauseam.

Amen.

nick562
10-12-2011, 2:29 PM
Why does it matter what someone else puts on their firearms. why is everyone on this forum so into hating on other people.

FatalKitty
10-12-2011, 2:32 PM
Nick
The only reason i bring it up is because i was curious why people use them. I assumed it was a tacticool thing but it makes sense if you have an out of spec lower or trigger.
Also i had no idea they were really anti "rotation"pins which makes more sense.
I never saw a need but if there really is one, i would put them in my gun.

Blue Ridge Reef
10-12-2011, 2:36 PM
r 9mm bolt OR (and this is what i did) simply use a ramped bolt to begin with. a ramped bolt needs to be used with a rounded head hammer too btw.

even though i have a ramped bolt, my 9mm build has anti-walk pins anyway for both: cheap insurance and cool looks.

I'm in the market for some of these anti-rotational pins right now! Any chance they can be found at Valkyrie Tactical? :)

captbilly
10-12-2011, 3:11 PM
Just to be clear, the advantage of tight, non moving/ rotating pins has nothing to do with an out of spec trigger, but they minimize the changes in shot to shot variations of sear engagement and other trigger geometry variations that occur with normal loose fitting pins. People using standard AR triggers don't notice these trigger issues because there is so much travel and slop that small movements are overwhelmed by the inherent issues.

Quinc
10-12-2011, 3:21 PM
My trigger pin walked out for the first time this weekend after 200rds. :( Any anti walk trigger pins better then others?

Sam .223
10-12-2011, 3:30 PM
i have a set, they came with the trigger i bought and so i used them, no other reason, i wouldn't go and buy them outright unless i had a problem with the pins walking out.

FatalKitty
10-12-2011, 5:36 PM
Just to be clear, the advantage of tight, non moving/ rotating pins has nothing to do with an out of spec trigger, but they minimize the changes in shot to shot variations of sear engagement and other trigger geometry variations that occur with normal loose fitting pins. People using standard AR triggers don't notice these trigger issues because there is so much travel and slop that small movements are overwhelmed by the inherent issues.

so you wouldn't recommend this to someone using a combat type AR that is for defense, courses/training, and range fun?

from what I gather, it's useful for target/competition rifles or rifles with out of spec or aftermarket triggers

bombadillo
10-12-2011, 5:39 PM
I can tell you from a sub-moa AR-15, I saw ZERO difference using anti-walk pins with a Geissele trigger over the factory pins. Zero, zilch, zip, nada. I still got the same groups with or without the pins.

Cokebottle
10-12-2011, 5:45 PM
I've got them, but they're still :ninja:

Peter.Steele
10-12-2011, 5:54 PM
My brother in law has them on his rifle, for the cheap insurance aspect. M16's are a little harder to come by than AR-15's ...

darqhelmet
10-12-2011, 6:04 PM
I have used them on one lower. My Kaiser lower with the State bear walked pins within a mag or two. Its the only one that has done it so far.

ire76io
10-13-2011, 10:39 AM
I put together an lr-308 with a TM lower and noticed the trigger pin would "walk" out after about 30-40 rounds. I don't know of this is due to the pins supplied in my parts kit (DPMS) or maybe the vibrations from .308. I put in some JP pins that screw into the lower. Problem solved.