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erik_26
10-11-2011, 8:32 PM
While out at a BLM site area in CA, I was enjoying a nice day out with some friends. As the day ended we started packing up when all of the sudden, a BLM officer came driving aggressively towards us to make contact.

Are average age among us is around 30. We weren't all decked out in camouflage or tactical accessories. We were not all gansta'd out either. Just casual clothes. No tattoos. No piercings. No crazy hair. All pretty much clean cut.

When he made contact, he first, kind of started circling around us to see what we had out in the open. Then he told me to disarm (I had a side arm). He continued to tell me "whenever law enforcement approaches, you should disarm." (I complied but don't think reaching for my sidearm as a LEO is making contact is a smart move).

He started asking if we had drugs & alcohol and if we had consumed any. He asked what guns we had and what we were shooting at.

Now, mind you, none of us threw a video camera in his face. None of us became confrontational or started spouting off our rights. None of us gave any resistance or attitude.

He then proceeded to lecture us for 5 minutes or so on keeping the place clean and that BLM will shut this place down.


I am a little confused on a few things that happened.

Did I actually have to disarm? Does he have the right to inquire about what guns we have and what we are shooting at? Does he have the right to ask about our drug/alcohol use?

All of us are law abiding citizens. We were doing nothing wrong. Nothing was suspicious. There was no crime reported. We weren't driving. What gives?

One of the member of our group is in Law Enforcement and didn't play that card right away. And when he did, it only mildly calmed the BLM officer down. I thought for sure once a member of our group identified themselves, that the BLM officer would have immediately said have a nice day and leave.


Not sure if I am being a little/lot overly sensitive? Not 100% sure about if I the BLM officer was conducting himself properly? Maybe just poor people skills on the BLM officers side?

Or is this all a real problem and BLM needs to learn how to do business better?

EdinKali
10-11-2011, 8:38 PM
I think the LEO in your group should send a nice little note to the BLM main office regarding this BLM officer's conduct.

taperxz
10-11-2011, 8:40 PM
What area of BLM?

Window_Seat
10-11-2011, 8:44 PM
hotline@calgunsfoundation.org

USFS/BLM Negative Event Reporting Form - Please Use (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=418190)

Erik.

BroncoBob
10-11-2011, 8:45 PM
What area of BLM?

^^^^^^ This

taperxz
10-11-2011, 8:48 PM
hotline@calgunsfoundation.org

USFS/BLM Negative Event Reporting Form - Please Use (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=418190)

Erik.

Oak abandoned that thread and any ideas of fighting them for now.

axel4488
10-11-2011, 9:35 PM
sounds like BLM land nanny had his panties in a bunch. I would still make a report and send it to his superiors.

goober
10-11-2011, 9:41 PM
What area of BLM?

^^^^^^ This

yes please share, if at all possible.

erik_26
10-11-2011, 10:12 PM
Tumey Hills

dantodd
10-11-2011, 10:19 PM
I am a little confused on a few things that happened.

Did I actually have to disarm?

I suspect that requiring you to disarm would be pretty well covered as "officer safety" but I'm not sure how far that will fly if this was a "consensual contact." It may make a difference if he said "you should always disarm when dealing with a law enforcement officer. Now please remove your weapon." Rather than saying "Remove your weapon, now." The first might be a simple request while the second is an order. He can request you do just about anything.

Does he have the right to inquire about what guns we have and what we are shooting at? Does he have the right to ask about our drug/alcohol use?

He can ask anything he likes. You do not have to answer anything. You sort of have to balance the amount of discomfort you're willing to withstand by being a ***** and telling him to pound sand vs. the possibility that you'll say "we were shooting at targets that-a way" and end up pointing where there is a building over a ridge too close for legally shooting. IOW, it's easy to accidentally implicate yourself for breaking a law you had no idea you were breaking.

Many would argue that your best course of action would be to ask if you are being detained or if you may continue packing up your gear. He has to have Reasonably Articulable Suspicion of a crime occurring to actually detain you and will, in all probability say that you aren't being detained but still whine and lecture at you.

ubet
10-11-2011, 10:46 PM
I hate blm with a passion, ALL OF THEM! I have dealt with them MANY times in concern to grazing allotments, they know nothing of their job, and are on a mission to rid the world of everyone who is not blm. They are mice though after you get to deal with the nazi mentality (and incomopotence) of what is usfs

vantec08
10-12-2011, 12:31 AM
I have not had good experiences with BLM cowboys. I agree that I would NEVER - EVER - unhostler a weapon without the LEO knowing exactly whats coming down. A group of us had a run-in once with one of them who realized he was outnumbered and . .. .lets just say the odds didnt favor him. He returned the next day with two other rangers and a game warden and we did the full shakedown routine. His Prob. Cause was that he had seen a couple .50 cal. brass on the ground the day before, even tho at that time we explained they were from a .50 cal. target rifle and pointed it out to him laying on a folding table. It seems the feds took every overly-eager authority cowboy reject from LE agencies and made them rangers.

SickofSoCal
10-12-2011, 12:38 AM
Obviously they don't want you on "their" land.

The idea is to make the experience so painful and unforgettable, that you won't come back any time soon.


Oh, and one last thing: "How are you doing?" ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS means "What are you doing?"

tenpercentfirearms
10-12-2011, 6:40 AM
He can ask you all of the questions he wants. You never have to answer them. If he asks you to disarm, I would suggest you do so. If you feel he had no justification for asking you to disarm, file a complaint with his department.

You should watch this video series.

http://youtu.be/gmrbNLt7Om8

Sam .223
10-12-2011, 4:59 PM
i've had a few run ins with BLM and it seems to me that the disarming issue is really based on that particular officer and how they "feel" about the situation they just walked into. i've had some ask me to put down my side arm and some just come out and BS without careing i had a pistol on my hip. i always put down whatever rifle i may have in hand when they roll up just to avoid any drama, in my case my run ins are more along the lines of hows it going, there may be hikers out in a certain direction so be careful, and the one i felt was actually helpful was there were some land ownership changes and shooting is no longer aloud in certain areas. i guess its just luck of the draw with the officer you get and how they feel about you and your guns.

97F1504RAD
10-12-2011, 5:52 PM
I think the LEO in your group should send a nice little note to the BLM main office regarding this BLM officer's conduct.

Do this.

hotline@calgunsfoundation.org

USFS/BLM Negative Event Reporting Form - Please Use (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=418190)

Erik.

And especially this.

aermotor
10-12-2011, 6:06 PM
I've had a few BLM Contacts and you have to understand, you will control the outcome of how it goes (unless they are server douche, see below). Be stupid and don't put your guns down or disarm and you're gonna get lip. Approach them friendly and be the one to initiate and let them know what's going on. It pays a lot to be friendly and helpful, they most likely deal with a lot of unsavory characters out there. Let them know you're not the droids they're looking for.

Now on the other hand you can get a sever douche of a BLM agent and you are at their mercy. DO NOT RESIST THEIR ORDERS. Rights don't matter at the moment of contact and what he's legally "allowed" to do. Just do it. Report it later.

It sucks they are so out to get people when that land is their for that purpose. Endless miles on nothingness. It's really a shame.

ar15robert
10-12-2011, 9:35 PM
The only time i had a contact with a blm ranger there were three of us we saw him drive down the hill.We slowly disarmed placed our rifles and guns on truck beds then sat in our chairs relaxing as he approached.Just asked a few question as to where we were shootin at and at what took a look then said be safe have a nice day.

CSACANNONEER
10-12-2011, 9:46 PM
He continued to tell me "whenever law enforcement approaches, you should disarm."

I wonder why he did not disarm himself after finding out that he was in the presence of a LEO officer? Did he ask the LEO in your group to disarm as well?

It really sounds like you met someone with a Napolean complex and the LEO in the group should do what he thinks is best. IF he feels that this BLM ranger is a disgrace to the profession or just unprofessional and rude, a letter to his supervisor might not be a bad idea.