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ap3572001
10-11-2011, 8:06 AM
Can someone please explain in plain English what does the new long gun registration law means?

How it will chenge things?

I still do not understand handgun registration..... Pre '91 , post '91 etc. There are tons of handguns and rifles that are not registered to anyone. And if they are not reported stolen , are fine to own and use by anyone.

Now they have a long gun registration....

What a mess!

Apocalypsenerd
10-11-2011, 8:08 AM
It means that the paperwork you fill out when buying a LG will not be destroyed. Instead it will be used to register your long gun to you. Long guns will be treated exactly like handguns.

It also means people will be 1 step closer to confiscation.

taperxz
10-11-2011, 9:18 AM
My gosh! The fail in this thread!

If you use your unregistered firearm criminally you can get an extra charge for a felony enhancement of an unregistered firearm.

bwiese
10-11-2011, 9:33 AM
As taperxz pointed out, lotsa FAIL in this thread but he corrected that.


It means that the paperwork you fill out when buying a LG will not be destroyed. Instead it will be used
to register your long gun to you. Long guns will be treated exactly like handguns.

Correct. I will also note;
1.) it's from 2014 on
2.) it is only for purchases/transfers after that date
3.) existing guns you own do not have to be papered
4.) DC Circuit in Heller II held 3-0 that registration of long guns was not supportable


It also means people will be 1 step closer to confiscation.


Wrong.

I'm not defending the law, but post-Heller and post-McDonald, registration cannot equal confiscation - unless you have a prohibiting crime.

It IS something we want to fight on a general political/legal basis.

I can pretty much - for $50 - $100 paid to various data mining services - figure out to a 90+% confidence level whether or not you own any guns.
If the DOJ wanted to really get guns from prohibited people they'd look there over their sloppy database.

ap3572001
10-11-2011, 9:36 AM
What about C&R???

Today You can sell Your 1957 Winchester 30-30 to a friend via cash a carry.
What about in 2014?

a1c
10-11-2011, 9:42 AM
OK that makes more sense. If I commit a crime with a gun not registered, bingo extra charge. If I act in a lawful manor with an unregistered weapon , my action is still lawful.
I'm glad we had this little talk.
Mike

What are you talking about? Handguns have only had to be registered in CA in the past couple of decades. Do you actually believe that you're going to get in trouble if you defend yourself with your pre-90s handgun because it's not registered?

Please stop running those silly scenarios inside your head. Take a Valium or go to the range.

Bruce
10-11-2011, 11:00 AM
How are long guns that do not have serial numbers going to be handled?

(For the uninitiated, prior to the 1968 Gun Control Act, long guns didn't have to have serial numbers. The Winchester .22 rifle I was given as a Christmas present in 1969, has no serial number.)

taperxz
10-11-2011, 11:05 AM
How are long guns that do not have serial numbers going to be handled?

(For the uninitiated, prior to the 1968 Gun Control Act, long guns didn't have to have serial numbers. The Winchester .22 rifle I was given as a Christmas present in 1969, has no serial number.)

This is not voluntary or mandatory registration of currently owned long guns. It only applies to purchases made after 1/1/14

TregoMark
10-11-2011, 11:15 AM
The issue of long guns without serial numbers is an interesting one. How would those be entered into the data system?

Skoonie
10-11-2011, 11:23 AM
Will this effect home built guns?

AragornElessar86
10-11-2011, 11:28 AM
This is not voluntary or mandatory registration of currently owned long guns. It only applies to purchases made after 1/1/14

But if he decided to sell/transfer it how would that be handled?

I know it's unthinkable, but it's starting to look like maybe Suckramento didn't really think this one through.

Mssr. Eleganté
10-11-2011, 11:37 AM
The issue of long guns without serial numbers is an interesting one. How would those be entered into the data system?

They will probably do something similar to how ATF handles the same problem on the Form 4473.

Firearms manufactured after 1968 should all be marked with a serial number. Should you acquire a firearm that is not marked with a serial number: you may answer question 28 with "NSN" (No Serial Number), "N/A" or "None".

taperxz
10-11-2011, 11:39 AM
But if he decided to sell/transfer it how would that be handled?

I know it's unthinkable, but it's starting to look like maybe Suckramento didn't really think this one through.

just like any other firearm you buy, buyer and seller go to ffl, do the transfer,wait 10 days and instead of DOJ discarding the paper work they will now keep it. Its really that simple.

In Browns letter he even stated, DOJ has the info anyway, instead of tossing that infor on the long gun they are now going to retain it.

Whether you like it or not, the stores you buy the long guns from anyway kept a record of your long arm purchase. It just made it more difficult for LE to search and request those records.

The silver lining to this is if the law stays in tact, if you get ripped off, if anyone tries to sell that rifle legitimately, it will come up as stolen and you will get your stolen property back. maybe!

Jeepers
10-11-2011, 11:45 AM
The issue of long guns without serial numbers is an interesting one. How would those be entered into the data system?

Will this effect home built guns?i would assume it means home built after 2014 must have paperwork sent in (volreg?), but i am just guessing this means serials will be a must from 2014 on ?

Bruce
10-11-2011, 12:25 PM
This is not voluntary or mandatory registration of currently owned long guns. It only applies to purchases made after 1/1/14

Yes, I realize that. However, at some point, someone will sell an un-serialled long gun to someone else via ppt. How does DOJ propse to handle that situation?

Librarian
10-11-2011, 12:41 PM
OK, we're back.

To answer the OP (I was going to do this anyway)

1) Transfers of long guns through an FFL will have new data recorded and sent to CA-DOJ via DROS and kept. DROS software will have to be modified, and the bill directs DOJ to do that.

2) Until a firearm is transferred through an FFL, no data recorded or required to be recorded.

3) Intrafamilial transfers of long guns will be reported. New form/new version needed.

4) Personal handgun importer is expanded to personal firearm importer - if you move here, have to report long guns just as now have to report handguns.

5) C&R long guns purchased out of state will have to be reported, as C&R handguns are now. New form/new version needed.

6) In-state C&R long gun transfers must use CA-licensed FFL for C&R long guns, just as in-state C&R handguns now. I think there's an exemption for C&R FFLs with COE.

7) There is currently an exemption from using an FFL to transfer long guns 50 years old and older - when/if this law takes effect, that exemption is repealed.

8) Effective date is January 1, 2014, unless something comes along to change that.

What did I miss?

Mssr. Eleganté
10-11-2011, 12:56 PM
Well, this drifted pretty far off course.

Closed temporarily for a bit of cleanup; the 'confiscation' stuff is off topic for the thread.

I went ahead and deleted two of my posts that were quoting and replying to posts that are no longer there. :)

TregoMark
10-11-2011, 5:39 PM
Thanks librarian for that break down. I've also been wondering bow this will affect CMP sales to CA. Currently, their charter allows direct delivery to CA customers - no DROS needed. Will CMP rifles have to go through an 03 FFL now?

mrdd
10-11-2011, 6:11 PM
i would assume it means home built after 2014 must have paperwork sent in (volreg?), but i am just guessing this means serials will be a must from 2014 on ?

Home built does not require any paperwork now, or in the future.

mrdd
10-11-2011, 6:25 PM
The simplest way to look at the new law is that it will require additional information to be transmitted to the DOJ with a long gun DROS. The additional information is the same as is transmitted for concealable firearms today. The information will be stored in a database forever.

If you move into the state you will have to register all of your firearms by sending in a form with the required information.

Part of the reason why the law is delayed for two years is that they will have to overhaul the DROS system to handle this. This means writing new software, training the FFLs. Spending money probably in the 10's of millions.

guitar-nut
10-11-2011, 6:27 PM
Will this effect home built guns?
This is the first thing I thought of as well. Will this mean that AKs from build party's must be registered?

mrdd
10-11-2011, 6:42 PM
This is the first thing I thought of as well. Will this mean that AKs from build party's must be registered?

No.

FABIO GETS GOOSED!!!
10-11-2011, 6:48 PM
4.) DC Circuit in Heller II held 3-0 that registration of long guns was not supportable

Come on, you know better than that.

safewaysecurity
10-11-2011, 6:53 PM
Come on, you know better than that.

Elaborate for us please.

FABIO GETS GOOSED!!!
10-11-2011, 7:20 PM
Elaborate for us please.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=7300118&postcount=271

Plug long gun registration into the current 9th circuit standard...how does a little paperwork burden the exercise of the core of the right?

taperxz
10-11-2011, 7:27 PM
Just the fact that it is described in two different lights means there is a different scrutiny applied to long arms v. handguns. It may not burden a core right in its face. That will change as fees are increased to start charging for that core right. The government never set a fee they didn't like.

safewaysecurity
10-11-2011, 7:27 PM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=7300118&postcount=271

Plug long gun registration into the current 9th circuit standard...how does a little paperwork burden the exercise of the core of the right?

Well it has it's problems not really on the burden area but on the fact that there isn't much of a legitimate government interest that doesn't fly in the face of the second or 4th and 5th amendment. If they want to say that " well we want to be able to charge criminals for having unregistered guns " the court has already ruled than you cannot make it illegal to not register a gun for a prohibited person because it's a violation of the right against self-incrimination. I mean the only real reason they want registration is for confiscation or for cops to know which law abiding citizens have guns or not and that doesn't really stand the test because cops are supposed to ALWAYS assume there is or here is the possibility of the presence of a deadly weapon and possible 4th amendment violations.

jpballa
10-11-2011, 8:16 PM
Does this mean there will be a long gun safety certificate just like handguns? I mean come on , where does it end. In CA it's just matter of time guns laws will be like Europes'.

ALSystems
10-11-2011, 9:16 PM
Does this mean there will be a long gun safety certificate just like handguns? I mean come on , where does it end. In CA it's just matter of time guns laws will be like Europes'.
Am I missing anything in a list of new requirements to purchase a long gun that I forsee happening in the Nanny State of California: :eek:

No FTF C&R transactions without licenses
Long gun safety certificate
Safe long gun list
1 in 30 day rule
Minimum age raised to 21 for purchase
Required trigger lock sale
Required secondary proof of ID
Required serial numbers on all long guns (even homebuilt)
No transactions (even among parents, children, grandparents) without FFL dealer involved
CMP purchases will require a FFL dealer?
Microstamping requirement?

The answer is these kind of laws will continue as long as Californians keep electing politicians who want to micromanage every aspect of your life. The way California is going, it will probably go bankrupt before they get a chance to implement all this. California is more likely to resemble a corrupt and bankrupt South American dictatorship rather than Europe (even Greece)

Librarian
10-11-2011, 10:02 PM
Am I missing anything in a list of new requirements to purchase a long gun that I forsee happening in the Nanny State of California: :eek:

No FTF C&R transactions without licenses
Long gun safety certificate
Safe long gun list
1 in 30 day rule
Minimum age raised to 21 for purchase
Required trigger lock sale
Required secondary proof of ID
Required serial numbers on all long guns (even homebuilt)
No transactions (even among parents, children, grandparents) without FFL dealer involved
CMP purchases will require a FFL dealer?
Microstamping requirement?

The answer is these kind of laws will continue as long as Californians keep electing politicians who want to micromanage every aspect of your life. The way California is going, it will probably go bankrupt before they get a chance to implement all this. California is more likely to resemble a corrupt and bankrupt South American dictatorship rather than Europe (even Greece)

Whaddaya mean 'forsee'?

One of those is law already, and a couple already will take effect in 2014.

Now
* Required trigger lock sale (or safe)

Part of 809
* No FTF C&R transactions without licenses
* CMP purchases will require a FFL dealer?

rp55
10-12-2011, 10:04 AM
This may be a stupid question but I have read all I can find and it remains unanswered. After long gun registration takes effect in 2014 can you still transfer multiple long guns with one DROS or will it be like handguns and you can only do one per DROS?

Mssr. Eleganté
10-12-2011, 10:24 AM
It looks like the fee structure is going to be the same as for handguns...

SEC. 57. Section 28240 of the Penal Code is amended to read:

28240.
(a) Until January 1, 2014, only one fee shall be charged pursuant to this article for a single transaction on the same date for the sale of any number of firearms that are not handguns, or for the taking of possession of those firearms.

(b) In a single transaction on the same date for the delivery of any number of firearms that are handguns, and commencing January 1, 2014, for any firearm, the department shall charge a reduced fee pursuant to this article for the second and subsequent firearms that are part of that transaction.

Dragunov
10-12-2011, 10:28 AM
just like any other firearm you buy, buyer and seller go to ffl, do the transfer,wait 10 days and instead of DOJ discarding the paper work they will now keep it. Its really that simple.

In Browns letter he even stated, DOJ has the info anyway, instead of tossing that infor on the long gun they are now going to retain it.

Whether you like it or not, the stores you buy the long guns from anyway kept a record of your long arm purchase. It just made it more difficult for LE to search and request those records.

The silver lining to this is if the law stays in tact, if you get ripped off, if anyone tries to sell that rifle legitimately, it will come up as stolen and you will get your stolen property back. maybe!I am REALLY tired of people justifying (or sounding like they are) the stupid frikkin' gun laws in this state. It REALLY is pathetic. I'm not just talking to this particular poster, but all of you who sugar coat our anti-constitutional laws. I applaud what Calguns stands for and the efforts of many of the posters here, but come on now!

I'm glad I'm moving to Texas next year.... Godd riddance to this dunghole state.

Good luck to you all!

ALSystems
10-12-2011, 10:31 AM
Whaddaya mean 'forsee'?

One of those is law already, and a couple already will take effect in 2014.

Now
* Required trigger lock sale (or safe)

Part of 809
* No FTF C&R transactions without licenses
* CMP purchases will require a FFL dealer?
This is just my personal guess. This guess is going past 2014 including the current long gun registration bill. I do not have any inside information.

What I am predicting is that everything thing that is annoying, expensive or just plain unfair about buying a handgun will eventually apply to long gun purchases. California politicians love making new gun laws. Each of these will have to be fought in court which is slow and expensive and uncertain. I believe California can create new gun laws faster than they can be successfully fought in court. It does not matter (at least to politicians) if these laws are unconstitutional or otherwise indefensible.

It seems for every one step forward California gun law takes ten steps backwards.

Currently when you buy a long gun, a statement you have a safe is enough. I doubt that will last.

Two of the listed items are part of 809. Other items haven't happened, yet.

We'll find out what actually happens, eventually.

Mssr. Eleganté
10-12-2011, 10:34 AM
Yes, I realize that. However, at some point, someone will sell an un-serialled long gun to someone else via ppt. How does DOJ propse to handle that situation?

AB 809 changes the list of information that dealers must submit with the DROS of a firearm. It adds this line to deal with long guns that have no serial number...

(15) If the firearm is not a handgun and does not have a serial number, identification number, or mark assigned to it, a notation as to that fact.

As mentioned above, I'm guessing that the notation will be the same or similar to what ATF wants on the 4473....NSN, N/A, or NONE.

Bigtime1
10-12-2011, 10:50 AM
As taperxz pointed out, lotsa FAIL in this thread but he corrected that.

Correct. I will also note;
1.) it's from 2014 on
2.) it is only for purchases/transfers after that date



If I owned a gun store I'd be going deep on inventory between now and 1/1/2014. My safe is going to become too small over the next two years, that's for sure.