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View Full Version : Considering a Saiga in 223


toyotaguy
10-10-2011, 6:09 PM
The EBR bug bit me awhile ago and I've been back and forth about an AR or an AK but i think I've decided on an unconverted Saiga so that i can have detachable magazines without a bullet button type device. I think i want .223 because around here it is more common than 7.62 in the stores and from the research I've done it is more accurate, plus i reload so pretty much all ammo costs the same for me. Purpose for the rifle is home defense, hunting general use. Im not into ultra super precision shooting so i don't care if its a 1/2moa gun but id like under 3 inch groups at 100yds.

My biggest problem though is the lack of aftermarket 10 round mags. The only 10rd mags I've found cost $25-$35 each! Does anyone know of cheaper mags for the Saiga in 223?

Additional comments about Saigas in 223 or in general are welcome.

Edit,
Local shop can get me a Saiga for $425 out the door, i know not the best price, but the lowest around.

Cole125
10-10-2011, 6:15 PM
I would highly reccomend getting a Mini 14 instead if you have the money. MUCH better rifles IMO.

Gnome
10-10-2011, 6:26 PM
I would highly reccomend getting a Mini 14 instead if you have the money. MUCH better rifles IMO.

Oh God! Cole, do you know what you have just started!? The Mini 14 a good rifle? Let the flood gates open...
:hide:

runngun
10-10-2011, 6:30 PM
The saiga for the money is a great deal.

zfields
10-10-2011, 6:46 PM
Dont plan to much on reloading an ammo from an AK platform, it mangles brass pretty good.

Order your ammo online for it, cheapest steel case you can find will work fine. I prefer Herters (or white box russian stuff from walmart, same stuff )

toyotaguy
10-10-2011, 6:54 PM
Dont plan to much on reloading an ammo from an AK platform, it mangles brass pretty good.

Order your ammo online for it, cheapest steel case you can find will work fine. I prefer Herters (or white box russian stuff from walmart, same stuff )

Is this the case for all calibers of the AK? That may seriously change my mind about it if i cant reload my spent casings.

Fot
10-10-2011, 6:58 PM
I had a saiga in .223 great rifle. Trim the dust cover just a bit and the brass comes out just fine. Mags aren't cheap.. You can get the factory ones used on Saiga forum from memebers pretty cheap though, those in free states have little use for them.

zfields
10-10-2011, 7:01 PM
Is this the case for all calibers of the AK? That may seriously change my mind about it if i cant reload my spent casings.

Sure seems like it. They really are designed for steel cased stuff that you wont be picking back up. I shot a bit of brassed case winchester 762x39 from wally world, stuff came out very beat up, to the point were I just chucked it ( wish I would have kept it now! )

smle-man
10-10-2011, 7:04 PM
Mine throws the empty brass in multiple directions a long way. It may not mangle the brass but you'll never find it again!

FiveSeven
10-10-2011, 7:06 PM
I would highly reccomend getting a Mini 14 instead if you have the money. MUCH better rifles IMO.

Yah, nothing better than heavier cast receiver that can crack, not any more accurate, cost 3 times as much, mags are more expensive etc, etc.

Mini 14 would be the last rifle I would buy and I shoot them from time to time.

bloodhawke83
10-10-2011, 7:07 PM
you can convert the mag well to standard ak mags, the mags are dirt cheap.

zfields
10-10-2011, 7:07 PM
Yah, nothing better than heavier cast receiver that can crack, not any more accurate, cost 3 times as much, mags are more expensive etc, etc.

Mini 14 would be the last rifle I would buy and I shoot them from time to time.

mags for the mini 14 and the 223 are pretty damn close in cost!

I like both rifles ( dont own a mini, but shot a few ), I think for the COST, you cant go wrong with a $299 saiga!

zfields
10-10-2011, 7:08 PM
you can convert the mag well to standard ak mags, the mags are dirt cheap.

Im curious how, since 556x45 is quite a bit longer than 762x39

Now if you ment standard AR mags, then I know what your talking about, and good luck, hes been out of stock of the adapters for quite a damn long time.

cantcme
10-10-2011, 7:18 PM
I just bought the 7.62x39 Saiga from JG guns for $299. You can't beat that.

TheDeej
10-10-2011, 7:23 PM
I just bought the 7.62x39 Saiga from JG guns for $299. You can't beat that.

Ha I just ordered the same thing yesterday! Great price if you have a local FFL that won't rape you on the transfer fee. Mine is going to come in at under $400 OTD.

zfields
10-10-2011, 7:41 PM
Ha I just ordered the same thing yesterday! Great price if you have a local FFL that won't rape you on the transfer fee. Mine is going to come in at under $400 OTD.

Wish I had the money, Id buy a 545xx39 one, to keep my 762x39 company : )

toyotaguy
10-10-2011, 7:43 PM
Anyone have info about spare mags?

plumbum
10-10-2011, 8:48 PM
I've been pushing myself for one in 5.45, because the ammo crates are dirt cheap, and I hear it is easier to convert the magazine well to accept '74 magazines (also some rabble rabble about 922 compliance goes with that last part...) If I wanted a cheap .223, I would just get a bolt action Savage - just doesn't seem right to have an AK shooting a 5.56 round?!

MrPlink
10-10-2011, 8:51 PM
just doesn't seem right to have an AK shooting a 5.56 round?!

The Israelis didnt have a problem with it
http://www.picanese.com/pbpics/7aa6970c54b778d2d0580a3e0051387f.jpg

pacifico23
10-10-2011, 8:55 PM
Problem is the mags. There are like no 10/30 .223 ak mags. Let alone 10 round .223 ak mags. They are hard to find. Solar Tactical I bilieve makes them but that's about it. If you plan on doing a conversion I would get a 5.45

smle-man
10-10-2011, 9:02 PM
I've been pushing myself for one in 5.45, because the ammo crates are dirt cheap, and I hear it is easier to convert the magazine well to accept '74 magazines (also some rabble rabble about 922 compliance goes with that last part...) If I wanted a cheap .223, I would just get a bolt action Savage - just doesn't seem right to have an AK shooting a 5.56 round?!

the Valmet M76 in .223 that I owned once was a sweet rifle - and an AK variant.

toyotaguy
10-10-2011, 9:05 PM
I've been pushing myself for one in 5.45, because the ammo crates are dirt cheap, and I hear it is easier to convert the magazine well to accept '74 magazines (also some rabble rabble about 922 compliance goes with that last part...) If I wanted a cheap .223, I would just get a bolt action Savage - just doesn't seem right to have an AK shooting a 5.56 round?!

The 556 round seems to have a more readily available reloading supply and thats a serious consideration for me because i like to custom make my ammo, i had considered 5.45, but its just not as readily available locally as 5.56 is.

Cole125
10-10-2011, 9:32 PM
Yah, nothing better than heavier cast receiver that can crack, not any more accurate, cost 3 times as much, mags are more expensive etc, etc.

Mini 14 would be the last rifle I would buy and I shoot them from time to time.

Was just sharing my opinion based on my experience with the Mini 14. The OP wanted a non BBed rifle and the Mini is a good choice for him if he can find one used in the $500-600 range. I have never heard of a Mini 14 receiver cracking.

My Mini has been 100 percent reliable and a sub 2MOA rifle with a optic in my hands. I agree with your cons though: Heavy, expensive mags, and a little over priced. But... haters gunna hate!! lol

toyotaguy
10-10-2011, 9:40 PM
Another question popped into my head.. at what point if any do i need to worry about 922r compliance? Does that only apply to converted imports or do i get into that territory if i say change the butt stock to something american made but still non "evil".

zfields
10-10-2011, 9:57 PM
If you change it out of sporting config, or ability to accept different types of mags ( this one can be argued back and forth, but thats the way I view it )

a new "monte carlo" buttstock wouldnt trigger it.


as for reloading, I really dont think either the Saiga or the mini (stock mini, not target/accuratized) would benefit as much from tailored handloads as an AR/bolt gun that is set up for target shooting as you would like it to.

pyro3k2
10-10-2011, 11:40 PM
The Israelis didnt have a problem with it
http://www.picanese.com/pbpics/7aa6970c54b778d2d0580a3e0051387f.jpg

When the laws change that is number 2 on my list of rifles to get. I know you can get them in CA but I want a real one, which are banned :(. Numbe 1 is a SBR krinkov (I can dream).

Inquirer
10-11-2011, 12:22 AM
the Valmet M76 in .223 that I owned once was a sweet rifle - and an AK variant.

That's a cool find. Dig those Finny AK's.

ZNinerFan
10-11-2011, 5:00 AM
For what they are, the Saiga rifles are an outstanding value no matter what caliber you get one in. I just ordered one 5.45x39 over the weekend and will be getting another one in 5.56/.223.

If you plan on shooting your rifle a lot, do yourself a favor and order one 5.45x39. I did a gun-deals search on ammo before ordering and it usually comes in at $.13 per round for 7n6 milsurp ammo. It is corrosive but I have heard the quality of the ammo is typically very good.

The idea of shooting 1k rounds a month for about $140 in ammo gets a big thumbs up from me.

Milsurps
10-11-2011, 5:51 AM
I have a 7.63x39 Saiga. Very nice gun for the price.
Now their down to $ 289.00 :D
PRICE: $349.00 $289.99 (http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-510/SAIGA-223--16%22/Detail?sfs=6bc49a12)

I still love my 581 Mini-14. :D

FiveSeven
10-11-2011, 7:07 AM
The Israelis didnt have a problem with it
http://www.picanese.com/pbpics/7aa6970c54b778d2d0580a3e0051387f.jpg

Just because it was modeled after AK, doesn't mean it's an AK.

Quiet
10-11-2011, 7:22 AM
IMO...
If you have a Saiga-223, you should (1) modify it to comply with Fed 922r, (2) modify it so that it is still featureless, (3) modify it so that it can use Galil magazines.

m03
10-11-2011, 7:31 AM
Just because it was modeled after AK, doesn't mean it's an AK.

It shares the same operating mechanism, same layout, and there's a minor amount of parts compatibility between it and a "standard" AK. It's an AK.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMI_Galil

FiveSeven
10-11-2011, 7:56 AM
It shares the same operating mechanism, same layout, and there's a minor amount of parts compatibility between it and a "standard" AK. It's an AK.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMI_Galil

It cannot accept standard AK parts, completely incompatible with any Soviet/Russian or various licensed AK manufactured. Thus it's an AK inspired rifle but not an AK.

toyotaguy
10-11-2011, 8:14 AM
IMO...
If you have a Saiga-223, you should (1) modify it to comply with Fed 922r, (2) modify it so that it is still featureless, (3) modify it so that it can use Galil magazines.

Do they make cheap 10 round galil mags?

bloodhawke83
10-11-2011, 9:33 AM
Im curious how, since 556x45 is quite a bit longer than 762x39

Now if you ment standard AR mags, then I know what your talking about, and good luck, hes been out of stock of the adapters for quite a damn long time.

i'll check when i get home, i have both.

akjunkie
10-11-2011, 9:58 AM
It cannot accept standard AK parts, completely incompatible with any Soviet/Russian or various licensed AK manufactured. Thus it's an AK inspired rifle but not an AK.

Damn, talk about LAME.

pyro3k2
10-11-2011, 10:12 AM
It cannot accept standard AK parts, completely incompatible with any Soviet/Russian or various licensed AK manufactured. Thus it's an AK inspired rifle but not an AK.

You seem to be the only person who thinks this rifle is not in the AK family, and seem to be hell bent on posting this lame reason any time anyone brings up a galil/golani.

RAMCHARGER
10-11-2011, 10:29 AM
My first .223 was a Mini-14. It was nice but once the barrel warmed up it couldnt hit a bowling pin past 150 yards. But then it was old, as in it had the wood hand guard.

My son has a Saiga .223. He chose it over the 7.62x39 because he got tired of being hassled by "the man with the magnet" at the ranges when he took the SKS. AND WALMART has 100 round boxes of .223 for like $40 bucks plus he gets to mooch off my .223 when I take my AR. He loves it. Heck I love it :)

Honestly $25-30 for a mag is ok since thats what I pay for a AR mag these days and they are more riliable that the 10 round AR mags I've fould latley.

FiveSeven
10-11-2011, 10:31 AM
You seem to be the only person who thinks this rifle is not in the AK family, and seem to be hell bent on posting this lame reason any time anyone brings up a galil/golani.

I like facts and vague generalization are not fact..... It is what it is and if you think they are the same, believe it. MP-44 is also AK.

toyotaguy
10-11-2011, 11:24 AM
I'm starting to think ill just bite the bullet and by a few expensive factory mags for it and bedone with it till I save up some money and do 922r compliance and a ar mag adapter at a later time.

zfields
10-11-2011, 1:04 PM
You seem to be the only person who thinks this rifle is not in the AK family, and seem to be hell bent on posting this lame reason any time anyone brings up a galil/golani.

I sorta agree with 5-7. IF its in the family, it should accept at least a few of the parts.


But I dont agree with his choice in pistols :facepalm: