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View Full Version : THERE WILL be Shall Issue in California...


Window_Seat
10-10-2011, 4:46 PM
What Gene Said:Registered OLLs...
Long Gun Registration ruled unconstitutional in DC last week.
DROS is now a tax and not a fee.
Carry license reform.
Excuse for not granting carry licenses destroyed.

I love it when a plan comes together!

http://www.ganiserhatli.com/image.axd?picture=2011%2F1%2Fcolonel_hannibal_smit h.jpg

-GeneAll, let's stop the DAGers (doom and gloomers)... That goes for myself as well. For those who come here to say "Hahahaha, you lost..." :laugh: :rofl2:

Watch us, because "When we absolutely, positively have to sue every Mutha F***A in the room STATE Government"...

The signing of these bills were just a blip on the radar screen that will be slated for destruction with clearance from multiple courts as long as we stick around to watch.

Nuff said?

Erik.

223556
10-10-2011, 4:49 PM
:iagree:

orangeusa
10-10-2011, 5:17 PM
Window_Seat - I was thinking - weeks ago (I think it was you), were talking about wanting to move out (but couldn't). Correct me if I'm off base here...

I agree, for a simpler reason, I think Heller and McDonald are HUGE. And also because a majority (IIRC) of states are already Shall Issue.

Thanks for thread! :)

j.hors
10-10-2011, 5:54 PM
I think out would be a heck of a lot better if we just followed Vermont, Alaska, and Arizona, did away with all this anti-gun crap and change to a Constitutional Carry. But hey that is just my thoughts. Sadly I don't ever forsee California doing that unless the supreme court were to step in.

Window_Seat
10-10-2011, 6:11 PM
Window_Seat - I was thinking - weeks ago (I think it was you), were talking about wanting to move out (but couldn't). Correct me if I'm off base here...

I agree, for a simpler reason, I think Heller and McDonald are HUGE. And also because a majority (IIRC) of states are already Shall Issue.

Thanks for thread! :)

Yup, That's about right... I'll be sticking around here for what I'm involved with (not just the gun stuff), and then when given the all clear, I'm headed to either OR, or someplace where one doesn't have to worry about being charged with a felony for walking to the mailbox. Hopefully we will have VSI before I do any of that.

Right now as I can see, OR is the state that is the least restrictive in terms of personal freedoms (http://mercatus.org/freedom-in-the-50-states/OR). One has the option with a LTC to either LOC or conceal, and people don't get all huffy puffy nearly as often as they do here. It's also cash & carry in OR.

The only thing they are "behind the times" on is that they don't recognize LTCs from other states, and there's a jerk lawmaker in the Oregon Legislature who won't let it happen.

Oh, and I also get to remove the bullet button...

Erik.

bohoki
10-10-2011, 6:50 PM
the first step should be to take it out of local hands and have it state issued currently its a battle with too many fronts

Gray Peterson
10-10-2011, 7:04 PM
the first step should be to take it out of local hands and have it state issued currently its a battle with too many fronts

And turn into the state of Maryland? I don't think so.

Must be shall-issue by judicial decision first, then we go for the transfer.

Nor-Cal
10-10-2011, 7:50 PM
I look foward to when California is Shall issue! In the near future!

bohoki
10-10-2011, 10:50 PM
And turn into the state of Maryland? I don't think so.

Must be shall-issue by judicial decision first, then we go for the transfer.

i was wrong and you are right

what is the difference between an fee and a tax

i personally think any governmental charge is a tax at minimum the dros should be considered as a fine

watsonville
10-10-2011, 11:23 PM
I think shall issue is a possibility with sb610 there must be a written reason for denial from issuing agency which I take it means if your all legit theres really no reason for denial in my eyes but what do I know I live in a county that issued 7 ltc permits in 2007

Support the nra

jamesob
10-10-2011, 11:26 PM
What Gene Said:All, let's stop the DAGers (doom and gloomers)... That goes for myself as well. For those who come here to say "Hahahaha, you lost..." :laugh: :rofl2:

Watch us, because "When we absolutely, positively have to sue every Mutha F***A in the room STATE Government"...

The signing of these bills were just a blip on the radar screen that will be slated for destruction with clearance from multiple courts as long as we stick around to watch.

Nuff said?

Erik.Don't hold your breath. California has more liberal judges than any other state so getting a honest judge is a crap shoot.

wildhawker
10-10-2011, 11:59 PM
Don't hold your breath. California has more liberal judges than any other state so getting a honest judge is a crap shoot.

The judges that matter are the Heller 5. Note, however, that we won in state court in Ventura.

-Brandon

Window_Seat
10-11-2011, 12:04 AM
Don't hold your breath. California has more liberal judges than any other state so getting a honest judge is a crap shoot.The judges that matter are the Heller 5. Note, however, that we won in state court in Ventura.

-BrandonAnd we aren't putting Birdt, Gorski, Nichols, etc... to work on these cases, but we might wear their name tags on Halloween...

Erik.

GWbiker
10-11-2011, 12:15 AM
I look foward to when California is Shall issue! In the near future!

Right. Maybe in two weeks? :rolleyes:

Cali-Shooter
10-11-2011, 12:34 AM
The first to give up, loses, and our cause is stronger than the disarmament agenda.

Not giving up until my dying day.

Alaric
10-11-2011, 12:48 AM
Interesting how this reaction to the bills signed by JB has degenerated into a slugfest between those fully negative and positive on their interpretation of the potentiality of the outcomes.

Gunnies sure are an emotional bunch.

Use your heads people. Whether there will or won't be shall issue carry in CA is less foreseeable than the weather a week from now. What's certain though is that it won't happen without our continued indivisible support for the cause.

chiselchst
10-11-2011, 2:33 AM
Right now as I can see, OR is the state that is the least restrictive in terms of personal freedoms (http://mercatus.org/freedom-in-the-50-states/OR).

Erik.

Erik,

Regarding OR, I agree with you. But I do have some concern for that future (it might not be warranted). Portland is a very liberal city, and carries much infleunce on some issues in the state. I just hope that contamination doesn't run too far in to the rural areas...they seem to love to extend their reach to save the children and such. :eek:

Meet you there in a few years (maybe), LOL.. :43:

Untamed1972
10-11-2011, 7:37 AM
"Long Gun Registration ruled unconstitutional in DC last week."

Did I miss something? What decision was that? Would registration of long guns include RAWs?

Secondly? Why would the Gov. sign into law today something that was just ruled unconstitutional a week ago?

ckprax
10-11-2011, 7:58 AM
Did I miss something? What decision was that? Would registration of long guns include RAWs?

Secondly? Why would the Gov. sign into law today something that was just ruled unconstitutional a week ago?

Heller II, the judges agreed that long gun registration was likely unconstitutional. One argued that all registration would be unconstitutional.

robcoe
10-11-2011, 8:37 AM
Interesting how this reaction to the bills signed by JB has degenerated into a slugfest between those fully negative and positive on their interpretation of the potentiality of the outcomes.

Gunnies sure are an emotional bunch.

Use your heads people. Whether there will or won't be shall issue carry in CA is less foreseeable than the weather a week from now. What's certain though is that it won't happen without our continued indivisible support for the cause.

Agreed, I don't know whether or not we will win in the end, but I would rather take a chance at winning and go down fighting than crawl into a corner whimpering and never even have a chance.

J.D.Allen
10-11-2011, 8:56 AM
I think shall issue is a possibility with sb610 there must be a written reason for denial from issuing agency which I take it means if your all legit theres really no reason for denial in my eyes but what do I know I live in a county that issued 7 ltc permits in 2007

Support the nra

I got a written reason for denial. It said "you do not meet our criteria". I'm sure that will be considered plenty reason enough. As long as it's in writing. :rolleyes:

M1A Rifleman
10-11-2011, 9:00 AM
The judges that matter are the Heller 5. Note, however, that we won in state court in Ventura.

-Brandon

Well, I'am sure there will be a change for the better to the current CCW program based upon the outlawing of UOC, but I doubt "shall issue" will be in the near future. So, no need to buy any new concealable holsters for now.

Its difficult to read why they passed 144, and why JB signed it. They must have known the end result will be a liberalization of the current CCW policy thru the courts to comply with the 2nd Amendment. Was Jerry intentionally doing a pro 2nd amendment task in banning UOC?

Untamed1972
10-11-2011, 9:06 AM
I got a written reason for denial. It said "you do not meet our criteria". I'm sure that will be considered plenty reason enough. As long as it's in writing. :rolleyes:

Yeah....I dont see that requirement changing much. It just means you'll get a letter that says "Applicant failed to demonstrate/document good cause."

WahLah! There's your written reason for denial.

CitaDeL
10-11-2011, 9:06 AM
I got a written reason for denial. It said "you do not meet our criteria". I'm sure that will be considered plenty reason enough. As long as it's in writing. :rolleyes:

There are only three 'criteria' that matter in 12050 licenses.

Residency. Good cause. Good moral character.

If their deciding criteria is outside of any of these three, they are inviting a poo storm. The definition of what constitutes good cause and good moral character is narrowing and there will be no place for them to go but 'because we said so" (which invites the aforementioned legal remedies).

At least you got a reason- its more than some people have received.

Wild Squid
10-11-2011, 9:46 AM
I think shall issue is a possibility with sb610 there must be a written reason for denial from issuing agency which I take it means if your all legit theres really no reason for denial in my eyes but what do I know I live in a county that issued 7 ltc permits in 2007

Support the nra

And I think SB 610 is there to shoot down the possibility of Shall Issue CCW. Have you looked at it that way yet? Which way do you really think it will swing?

Wild Squid
10-11-2011, 9:48 AM
The judges that matter are the Heller 5. Note, however, that we won in state court in Ventura.

-Brandon

And what if the Heller 5 becomes the Heller 4? What will we do then? Put all of our eggs in one basket and lose in SCOTUS?

NeuTag
10-11-2011, 9:51 AM
conrrany to the better besalf diatribrie just do what you feel you need to do.we will send money to offset the local diatrib. Brown has made it a joke now. All smuggling is open in my mind. History supports me and my money making.

bwiese
10-11-2011, 10:06 AM
Agreed, I don't know whether or not we will win in the end, but I would rather take a chance at winning and go down fighting than crawl into a corner whimpering and never even have a chance.

We'll win.

Remember that we picked Sacramento County first for a reason ;-)

Sacramento has gone de facto shall issue.

If we can win in that Belly of the Beast, full of politicos, we can ultimately win anywhere else.

dotalchemy
10-11-2011, 10:44 AM
If we can win in that Belly of the Beast, full of politicos, we can ultimately win anywhere else.

San Francisco County.


Go on - accept the challenge, Bill :)

hoffmang
10-11-2011, 3:10 PM
And I think SB 610 is there to shoot down the possibility of Shall Issue CCW. Have you looked at it that way yet? Which way do you really think it will swing?
You still don't know who wrote that bill... Too funny.
San Francisco County.


Go on - accept the challenge, Bill :)

Running an excellent ground game requires good timing. :43:

-Gene

mrdd
10-11-2011, 3:18 PM
San Francisco County.


Go on - accept the challenge, Bill :)

The thing to remember about San Francisco is that come January there will be a new sheriff in town.

ETA: January 8th at noon to be exact.

wildhawker
10-11-2011, 3:19 PM
And I think SB 610 is there to shoot down the possibility of Shall Issue CCW. Have you looked at it that way yet? Which way do you really think it will swing?

He probably hasn't looked at it that way yet because it's wildly off the mark. So far off, in fact, that even Google Maps can't find it.

-Brandon

IGOTDIRT4U
10-11-2011, 3:36 PM
You still don't know who wrote that bill... Too funny.


-Gene

Wright and Correa wrote the original. Was it their words or a ghost writer? Or more preceisley, the final draft version, who re-wrote it?

CEDaytonaRydr
10-12-2011, 12:20 PM
In both carry cases, the judges ruled that since you could UOC in urban California you had an alternate means of self defense in public. Now you don't. Heh.

-Gene

So, in regards to this, is it now our time to strike? Should those of us who are currently residing in L.A. county fill out our CCW applications en masse? :43:

Caladain
10-12-2011, 12:28 PM
So, in regards to this, is it now our time to strike? Should those of us who are currently residing in L.A. county fill out our CCW applications en masse? :43:

Not until the word is given. Otherwise you're just wasting time/money/pissing folks off.

CEDaytonaRydr
10-12-2011, 12:35 PM
Not until the word is given. Otherwise you're just wasting time/money/pissing folks off.

Yeah, just wanted to make sure I didn't "miss my cue". I'm so confused about what has been going on with legislation lately that I was afraid I might have missed something...

I don't have nearly enough time to log in and check all the topics on calguns on a daily basis.

Aegis
10-12-2011, 12:45 PM
My concern about a CCW case going to SCOTUS is the time involved. Time is of the essence, especially if Obama wins a second term. IMO time is not on our side, given the recent lower court setbacks.

wildhawker
10-12-2011, 12:54 PM
My concern about a CCW case going to SCOTUS is the time involved. Time is of the essence, especially if Obama wins a second term. IMO time is not on our side, given the recent lower court setbacks.

I think you misunderstand how strategic litigation works. The point is to move the case along as quickly as possible. Losses low are not "setbacks", they're (in CPM scheduling terms) milestones.

-Brandon

POLICESTATE
10-12-2011, 12:57 PM
I think you misunderstand how strategic litigation works. The point is to move the case along as quickly as possible. Losses low are not "setbacks", they're (in CPM scheduling terms) milestones.

-Brandon

Sounds kind of like software development. Too bad we can't patch McDonald to extend P&I to the 2A all the way :rolleyes:

BigFatGuy
10-12-2011, 1:11 PM
Microsoft 9th Circuit 2012: Now with civil rights!

Untamed1972
10-12-2011, 1:53 PM
Microsoft 9th Circuit 2012: Now with civil rights!

^^^LOL

I think civil rights in CA is still in early beta testing running on a Commadore 64 LOL

What we need is a iCourt with a civil rights app

newbee1111
10-12-2011, 2:17 PM
So does anyone want to take a bet on whether San Francisco will go shall issue before Orange County? I'm assuming that neither will give up may issue until the CGF pries it out of their cold dead fingers and that SF will run out of money first.

Rossi357
10-12-2011, 2:22 PM
I envision a state run carry license storefront with a range in the back.
Go in, pay some fees, get your back ground check run, qualify, and out you go.
I suspect the county sheriff's will tire of being reduced to administering LTC's

CEDaytonaRydr
10-12-2011, 2:23 PM
So does anyone want to take a bet on whether San Francisco will go shall issue before Orange County?

Could be worse...

I think Great Britain will go "shall issue" before L.A. county... :facepalm:

POLICESTATE
10-12-2011, 2:41 PM
I envision a state run carry license storefront with a range in the back.
Go in, pay some fees, get your back ground check run, qualify, and out you.
I suspect the county sheriff's will tire of being reduced to administering LTC's

I could go for that, would be even better if they could make it drive-thru.

Kid Stanislaus
10-12-2011, 3:28 PM
Don't hold your breath. California has more liberal judges than any other state so getting a honest judge is a crap shoot.

Think "federal courts".;)

Kid Stanislaus
10-12-2011, 3:36 PM
The thing to remember about San Francisco is that come January there will be a new sheriff in town.
ETA: January 8th at noon to be exact.

And I suppose the first thing he'll do is sit down at his desk and start signing LTC's?:rolleyes:

newbee1111
10-12-2011, 3:52 PM
And I suppose the first thing he'll do is sit down at his desk and start signing LTC's?:rolleyes:

Sure he will, and there will be a free unicorn handed out with each LTC. If the San Francisco sheriff is signing LTC's it will be from a jail cell on a contempt of court declaration from a federal judge. At least I'm guessing that's the CGF end game.

wildhawker
10-12-2011, 3:56 PM
Sure he will, and there will be a free unicorn handed out with each LTC. If the San Francisco sheriff is signing LTC's it will be from a jail cell on a contempt of court declaration from a federal judge. At least I'm guessing that's the CGF end game.

If that's what it takes, yes.

-Brandon

newbee1111
10-12-2011, 5:19 PM
If that's what it takes, yes.

-Brandon

Well, that's just crazy talk. That's like saying that Washington DC would cave in enough to allow an FFL to open up shop in the police station.

mossy
10-12-2011, 5:23 PM
i wont be holding my breath.

mrdd
10-12-2011, 5:25 PM
And I suppose the first thing he'll do is sit down at his desk and start signing LTC's?:rolleyes:

Not at all. This was in response to someone challenging Gene to take on SF now. Don't you think it makes sense to deal with the new guy?

1859sharps
10-12-2011, 7:24 PM
I could go for that, would be even better if they could make it drive-thru.

actually what would be even better is no license required. but I can live with drive-thru as long as I can get a side of fries with that super sized LTC

CEDaytonaRydr
10-12-2011, 9:24 PM
Not until the word is given. Otherwise you're just wasting time/money/pissing folks off.

I hope it's not asking too much, but is there some type of "light at the end of the tunnel" we could look to as the signal to apply for LA County CCWs?

Maybe something like "If this happens, then everyone should now apply for their CCWs." I just want to know what cases/efforts we are waiting on. I wish I had more time to be personally involved with LA County gun rights but unfortunately, I've got a lot of "irons in the fire". :o

hoffmang
10-12-2011, 10:41 PM
Well, that's just crazy talk. That's like saying that Washington DC would cave in enough to allow an FFL to open up shop in the police station.

:smilielol5:

The force is strong in this poster!

-Gene

ColdDeadHands1
10-12-2011, 11:11 PM
Maybe something like "If this happens, then everyone should now apply for their CCWs."

How about "if hell freezes over, then everyone in LA County should apply for their LTC's".




Just kidding...Once the Supreme Court rules in our favor on one of the carry cases and after another year or two of slapping LA County around in the courts, you may apply for your LTC.

DannyInSoCal
10-12-2011, 11:22 PM
Patiently, causiously optimistic -

But not really expecting anything to change in SoCal for quite some time.

If ever....

dotalchemy
10-13-2011, 8:42 AM
Not at all. This was in response to someone challenging Gene to take on SF now. Don't you think it makes sense to deal with the new guy?

I didn't challenge Gene, I (light heartedly) challenged Bill.

I think we all know learned in Crimson Tide that folk called Gene are not to be challenged lightly.

Mind you, Bill did save the planet on July 4th...

mrdd
10-13-2011, 12:21 PM
I didn't challenge Gene, I (light heartedly) challenged Bill.

You're right, I misremembered the original exchange.

Sorry, Gene and Bill!