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Uncle Yettie
10-10-2011, 5:12 PM
I have my dads ar15. He has pasted. Besides this last weekend. The last time it was fired was about 15_18 years ago. It cycled about 30 rounds. Than it started smashing the bullet tips into the brass and the mag housing. Any help well be nice. And ideas.

Peter.Steele
10-10-2011, 5:57 PM
So my idea. Your problem. Understanding. Right?

Uncle Yettie
10-10-2011, 6:44 PM
I have a picture but don't know how to put up

Peter.Steele
10-10-2011, 6:58 PM
Okay it is. The shack should be tried? Of images?

h0use
10-10-2011, 7:00 PM
It could just be the magazine

Uncle Yettie
10-10-2011, 7:10 PM
Tried many mags. The bolt is not grabing the round out of the mag.

dieselpower
10-10-2011, 7:18 PM
what city are you in. This seems like a problem that requires inspection. You are saying the bullets are being smashed into the case or are you saying the cases are getting smashed? 15 year old = and A2 without feed ramps so it cant have a mismatch ramp issue. Seems like a bad magazine to me, but you said all mags do it.

This is one that requires a bit more description, pics or a personal inspection.

baih777
10-10-2011, 7:34 PM
most likely it will need to be taken apart and cleaned and oiled and check the bolt action.
where are you located ? someone close may be able to help out.

Uncle Yettie
10-10-2011, 8:08 PM
I am in the bay. My dad had it sense the 80s. And how do I put pix on the board?

Uncle Yettie
10-10-2011, 8:21 PM
Could it be the mag catch?

Peter.Steele
10-10-2011, 8:28 PM
Upload the picture to an image host site - imageshack.us is one of the more popular ones. Once you have the picture online and available to view, you will have a link like this one:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/198/kittenpicture.jpg/

Right click on this, and click the option on the menu that says something similar to "open image in new tab." You'll wind up with a picture that has an address something like this: http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/2587/kittenpicture.jpg

Copy that URL to the clipboard and come back to Calguns. In the GUI for the post you'll see an icon that looks like a sun in a yellow sky over a mountain. Click this, and then paste the URL into the dialog box that comes up. It will properly format your image. It will look something like this: [.img]http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/2587/kittenpicture.jpg[./img] (You have to remove the period in the [.img] and [./img] though.)

At this point, you should check your post for spelling, punctuation and proper usage of language. Once everything has passed muster, click on the post button.

Uncle Yettie
10-10-2011, 8:37 PM
Would photobucket work

Uncle Yettie
10-10-2011, 8:45 PM
Just looking for help to fix the ar. Am not able take it to gunsmith

donking
10-10-2011, 10:30 PM
most likely it will need to be taken apart and cleaned and oiled and check the bolt action.
where are you located ? someone close may be able to help out.

:iagree: Here is link with info on how to clean an AR. If it hasn't been cleaned in 15 years, then the old oil/lube may be causing the problems.
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=61505



To attach pictures, do you see the paperclip on the "go advanced" page? Click on it. It is next to the smily face. It allows you to upload pics directly. did you try that?

Here is detailed info with pictures of how to do it.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=86685

TheHammerOfTruth
10-10-2011, 10:35 PM
OP, what kind of rifle is it?

Uncle Yettie
10-10-2011, 11:46 PM
It is a LE m4 model

alfred1222
10-10-2011, 11:58 PM
pictures and an exact location, like your city, would help. someone could come by and take a look/help fix it at the range.

Sugacookie
10-11-2011, 2:06 PM
I think he said he lives in the bay area?? Let us know. If your in the San Jose area we can meet up and ill take a look at it.

Uncle Yettie
10-11-2011, 5:02 PM
this is what happened to the bullet tip118064

Uncle Yettie
10-11-2011, 5:05 PM
and i am in the north bay.. so not a lot of ranges here..

Uncle Yettie
10-11-2011, 5:34 PM
talking to some people. it sounds like change out some springs and good deep cleaning.. that pix is what happened even hand cycliying it..

dieselpower
10-11-2011, 5:51 PM
Open it up and get a close up shot of the chamber. I am not sure if your LE M4 has rifle or M4 ramps. Did someone re-barrel this or "borrow" it for a while?

Whats happening is the bolt is stripping the round out of the magazine and the tip is lodging against something... the upper, the ramps, the chamber extension and that causes the bullet to be shoved back inside the case.
Need to see those ramps first. Change magazines also...all of them. Get a new fresh magazine.

edit: I have also seen a cracked upper do this. the barrel/extension was out of alignment with the BCG.

Uncle Yettie
10-11-2011, 6:12 PM
the bolt is not fully stripping the round from any mag, i have. nothing have been change on it or re-barreled. the round is being jamed just under the ramp. and for the mags new and old.

dieselpower
10-11-2011, 6:22 PM
the bolt is not fully stripping the round from any mag, i have. nothing have been change on it or re-barreled. the round is being jamed just under the ramp. and for the mags new and old.

If it happened on anew magazine it can't be a worn magazine lip, spring or follower as this would be 90% of the time, so we are going to assume you are 100% correct this happens on a NEW MAGAZINE, like a PMAG and move on with the troubleshooting.

We will also assume this was NEVER re-barreled and no one EVER swapped a Rifle barrel into an M4 upper causing a ramp mismatch, which will also cause this....

One of the only things left is a worn magazine arm holding the magazine too low, or a cracked upper or lower causing the magazine to sit wrong allowing the Bolt to strip the round at the wrong angle...thus shoving it into the extension.

Remove your handguards. Grab the barrel and TWIST it like its a snake waiting to bite you... if you can move it... the barrel nut is loose. You need to remove the gas tube and re-torque the barrel nut.

Get a pair of 90 degree needle nose pliers and open them up INSIDE the extension lugs and twist... does the extension move? If so you need a new barrel or have a barrel smith re-mount an extension on the barrel. Make sure they match the ramps and you have a proper chrome lined chamber in that extension.

Also look for cracks in the barrel nut, lower and upper causing the barrel/extension to tip nose down which will cause the round to get pushed into the side of the extension lugs.

Uncle Yettie
10-11-2011, 6:39 PM
after hand cycling

donking
10-11-2011, 6:57 PM
What type of ammunition does this happen to? Is it always one type? Have you tried other types? By type I mean 62 grain or 55 or 77?

Is it the last/first round in the mag or random? have you tried only putting 5 rounds in the mag and make sure they are seated to the rear? Maybe the ammunition isn't being fully seated to the rear of the magazine.

The cartridges seem to get caught just below the feed ramp, like what may happen if shooting the very heavy bullets or if you got a bad batch of ammo.

Or you could need to have the feed ramps extended by a gunsmith.

BTW, it does look dry in the pics = you need to put more CLP on the bolt, etc.

Uncle Yettie
10-11-2011, 7:28 PM
i am going to be giving it a lot of love in the cleaning department. and i fired 5.56x45 55grn this last weekend and it did what i am showing hand cycling. and the 5.56x45 62grn green tip was a hand cyclie. thinking that it was the armo.. and yes i did only put five rounds in when hand jacking it. and with diffenet mags new and old.

joelogic
10-11-2011, 7:43 PM
Um, you have a Colt LE that was your dads from the 80's and you live in CA?

Uncle Yettie
10-11-2011, 7:48 PM
ordnance design co. sanata clara calif.. no colt ar here

Uncle Yettie
10-11-2011, 8:46 PM
new buffer spring and mag catch here i come. it seems to be the spring is not doing the job and the mags are setting low.

arsilva32
10-11-2011, 9:19 PM
i see feed ramps but no cuts in the receiver does not look like the original barrel to me. its kind of hard to see but feed ramps should line up with cuts in the receiver.


infact after looking at the pic you can see the bullet tip hitting right where the ramp cuts should be

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/2701/closeramps.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/210/closeramps.jpg/) Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

even tho it still should be ok very strange problem you have there.it does seem to be a mag issue as dieselpower suggested. i would def have a gunsmith look at it

Uncle Yettie
10-11-2011, 10:01 PM
thank you will look around for a smith

Uncle Yettie
10-11-2011, 10:08 PM
any more ideas.. i can see that the mags maybe setting low. so a mag catch should help. right? and i am not wroung on thinking that some spring parts need to be replaced also.. but how much would the ramps cut be? and lastly the rilfe has been what is all my life..

dieselpower
10-12-2011, 6:26 AM
ordnance design co. sanata clara calif.. no colt ar here

DUDE... you told us it was a LE M4, that is a Colt so we assumed it was a factory built colt... This changes everything. This is some gunshops creation and could even be a out of spec lower, out of spec upper...anything.

any more ideas.. i can see that the mags maybe setting low. so a mag catch should help. right? and i am not wrong on thinking that some spring parts need to be replaced also.. but how much would the ramps cut be? and lastly the rifle has been what is all my life..

Yes as I said before, the if the arm is holding the magazines wrong this will happen. I didn't give it much emphasis since I was thinking this was a Factory Built Colt LE M4.

this is what the ramps need to look like
http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu272/Wiringguy/feedramps.jpg

You are ok, since this is NOT a Colt LE M4.

The magazine is too low, or the barrel/extension is too high or at a nose down angle, simple as that.

Uncle Yettie
10-12-2011, 11:35 AM
What would the smith do to help fix the ramps? The mag catch ARM I am able to do that.

Uncle Yettie
10-12-2011, 11:38 AM
And any of you wouldn't be a lic# smith that would be able to help with the ramps?

dieselpower
10-12-2011, 6:59 PM
What would the smith do to help fix the ramps? The mag catch ARM I am able to do that.

And any of you wouldn't be a lic# smith that would be able to help with the ramps?

I posted the pic. Please look at it. There is NOTHING wrong with your ramps since you do not have a Colt LE M4. If you did have a Colt LE M4, there was a good possibility you had M4 ramps and there could be a problem. Since you have regular rifle ramps as you showed us in your pics, those are fine as seen on the regular ramps side of my pic. Another issue could be a ramps mis-match which can cause this problem you are having, but would be seen in your pic... the "bad" pic I posted.

I have told you all the possible problems you could have.
1) Out of spec upper... you need to replace it. To prove this borrow someone else's upper and place your lower on it. Does the problem go away? Use your upper on someone else's lower.... Is the problem still there? If yes... its your upper. Remove the barrel+ all the other parts on it and get a new upper. The upper was made out of spec.

2) Use your lower with someone else's upper... if you still have the issue... its your lower. Swap the magazine arm. Still have the issue. Buy a new lower and swap the parts into that. Your lower is out of spec and was made incorrectly.

3) get someones BCG and see if the problem goes away. Your BCG maybe out of spec.

donking
10-16-2011, 2:35 PM
Any update as to why?

Has it been fixed?
:BRB:

donking
10-22-2011, 11:21 PM
Any update as to why?

Has it been fixed?
:BRB:

:oji:

Uncle Yettie
10-24-2011, 1:28 AM
I have been asking around and pricing on fixing the ramps. And waiting on a mag catch. That's where it stands for now

Heretodaygonetomorrow
10-24-2011, 5:04 PM
Feedramps are not required on all ARs, they are not magic. Ar15s made in the 60s, 70s, and 80s ran fine without M4 feedramps.

Replacing the magazine catch is not going to fix the problem either, since the magazine catch really does not control the height of the magazine in the well.

Since it appears that the bullet noses are hitting too low, and you stated that you tried subbing the magazine numerous times with both old and new, the only conclusion can be that the lower reciever is out of spec (magazine catch machined too low, so the magazine is too low, and as a result the bullets are too low when feeding).

The only way to fix this is to replace the lower receiver and add a bullet button. This is a good, inexpensive solution (you can buy numerous lowers with bullet butons for $150 or less, including sales tax, and DROS) because it will cure the feeding problem, and clear up any question is whether the rifle is legal to own, and legal to transfer to you (from your father to you). Listed guns that are not registered cannot be transfered, or sold within CA (can be sold and shipped out of State using an FFL). Unregistered guns that should have been listed, cannot be listed. Changing the receiver to an OLL will make the gun legal. The only problem would be that you cannot use any 30 round magazines that your father has for it, the gun would be limited to 10 round magazines (for now). Just keep the 30 rounds for future use.

Uncle Yettie
10-25-2011, 10:59 PM
Thank you i am up on the laws. And cal spc has been done

Uncle Yettie
01-16-2012, 1:57 PM
I have put in the new mag catch. It has helped a lot. I am going to order new take down pins for it, to pull the frame together better

george223
01-16-2012, 11:43 PM
Looking at your berrel.jpg picture (posted 10/11/11), the bullet appears to be lined up with the feed ramp as it should be. It's hard to tell for sure. And as others have said, your ramps are ok. When the bolt goes forward, where are the bullets getting stuck? Are they getting stuck in the feed ramp? Do you see gouges in the bullets. You may need to get a kinetic bullet puller to be able to inspect the bullets better.

I had a similar issue with an AR I built 20 years ago. I still have it and it works great now. Once in awhile, a bullet would not slide up the feedramp and would catch on the sharp corners on the top of the ramp. It didn't happen all the time and eventually, it worked itself out. Those corners may need a slight touchup with a polishing stone. Be careful with this.

When I was trying to troubleshoot this, I would push the bullet from the magazine into the feedramp with my finger. The bullet would get hung up on the feedramp as the corners at the top of the feedramp would dig into the bullet.

Uncle Yettie
01-17-2012, 12:33 AM
Thank you george. I do plan on polish the ramps also. I watching on how to do that now. I have done more research on my ar. It is a1 model. With rifle ramps. I may turn the ramps in to m4 ramps

Uncle Yettie
01-17-2012, 12:51 AM
And adding the feed problem has happen less. Since putting in the new mag catch. I also did some more research on my ar. Witch is a A1 car. LE style. With rifle ramps. I would like make the ramps longer and Again Not a Colt.

Seesm
01-17-2012, 1:02 AM
If you need help... Bring it my way.. In just a lil buit you will shooting it good as ever...

george223
01-17-2012, 1:50 AM
M4 ramps are not really necessary but probably can't hurt. There are a lot of AR's out there that function just fine without them. I have one. At one time, I knew why they came up with the M4 ramps but I can't think of it at the moment.

jukeboxx13
01-17-2012, 2:09 AM
take it to a gun smith

dieselpower
01-17-2012, 6:18 AM
If the new magazine catch helped the problem as I said it would, then adding M4 ramps will help a little more too...but not for the reason you think.

Your Lower is out of spec. Its shifted the angle in which it holds the magazine and the feed is tilted. Yes M4 feed ramps will band0aid this problem and it will not happen as much, but it will 100% still happen from time to time.

You got to get rid of that lower. For the time and money spent getting someone to cut M4 ramps you could spend that on buying a new Lower and swapping all the parts inside. Its an easy job...you can do it in less than 2 hours.

You can turn around and sell the old lower (explaining its out of spec to the buyer) and re-coupe some of your money.

Another band-aid would be to sell your upper and with the proceeds buy a new upper with M4 ramps.

To find out which way would be best you need to use another AR15 that has M4 ramps as a test bed. Swap your upper and lowers and fire both. The problem will stay with the defective part.

negolien
01-17-2012, 1:52 PM
.....this threads so awsome...:eek:

george223
01-17-2012, 5:41 PM
OP: Not sure if this helps, but here is a couple of pictures showing where the bullet at the top of the magazine is located relative to the ramps. This rifle does have M4 ramps but it doesn't matter for our purposes. Was just curious, so I pushed on the back of the bullet with a popsicle stick. As the bullet slid forward, it got hung up on the sharp corners at the top of the feedramp. I had to push under the front of the bullet slighly to get it to slide into the chamber.

So far, I've fired 200 rounds through this rifle without any jambs. Under normal conditions, the recoil spring forces the bullet up and over the feedramps.

So maybe this is where the bullets in your rifle are getting hung up. Just a thought.

Uncle Yettie
01-24-2012, 4:09 AM
I in the last two weeks or so I have fired about 250 thought it. It had only Hung up about 3 to 5 times. So I am going to polish the ramps as is. And order the take down pins and spacir wadge