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mrdd
10-10-2011, 11:40 AM
Does anyone know what litigation the Governor refers to in his veto message? I thought the litigation for AB 962 was completely settled back in January?

Or is he referring to litigation threatened if SB 427 had been signed into law?

Crom
10-10-2011, 11:48 AM
AB 962 was ruled unconstitutional, but I think the decision is being appealed and that's what Jerry Brown was referring to. I just learned that myself. :o

hoffmang
10-10-2011, 12:46 PM
AB 962 was ruled unconstitutional, but I think the decision is being appealed and that's what Jerry Brown was referring to. I just learned that myself. :o

This.

Governor Schwarzenegger signed AB-962. Two lawsuits were filed. One claimed it violated interstate shipping preemption and the other stated that it's description of ammunition was vague and ambiguous. The latter won and the former was mooted by that. SB 427 was passed to try to remedy the ambiguousness. Governor Brown vetoed the clean up, leaving the law as is and on appeal at a California appellate court. I predict an affirmation of the current loss at the appellate level and then that we don't hear about this again for quite a while.

-Gene

hoffmang
10-10-2011, 1:32 PM
X-posted from another thread:

I had been of the opinion that registration was unwinnable but Heller II is forcing me to change that opinion.:

The majority wrote starting on page 18,
These early registration requirements, however, applied with only a few exceptions solely to handguns — that is, pistols and revolvers — and not to long guns. Consequently, we hold the basic registration requirements are constitutional only as applied to handguns. With respect to long guns they are novel, not historic.

The dissent concurred though Judge Kavanaugh would hold registration requirements more broadly unconstitutional, Whether we apply the Heller history- and tradition-based approach or strict scrutiny or even intermediate scrutiny, D.C.’s ban on semi-automatic rifles fails to pass constitutional muster. D.C.’s registration requirement is likewise unconstitutional.

The Heller II decision is here (http://www.cadc.uscourts.gov/internet/opinions.nsf/DECA496973477C748525791F004D84F9/$file/10-7036-1333156.pdf).

-Gene

stitchnicklas
10-10-2011, 1:35 PM
gene......


does this mean a end to face to face c&r longgun sales???
c&r online longgun sales to 03ffl's???

any input or theory??

hoffmang
10-10-2011, 2:06 PM
gene......


does this mean a end to face to face c&r longgun sales???
c&r online longgun sales to 03ffl's???

any input or theory??

I've got to go read it more closely but no - this actually broadens the types of C&R transactions you can do with the downside being that you have to send in a registration form with a couple bucks after the transaction.

-Gene

DRH
10-10-2011, 2:20 PM
gene......


does this mean a end to face to face c&r longgun sales???c&r online longgun sales to 03ffl's???

any input or theory??


I was also curious as to whether this new law would ban face to face transactions? Can we get a legal interpretation, please.

mrdd
10-10-2011, 2:34 PM
This.

Governor Schwarzenegger signed AB-962. Two lawsuits were filed. One claimed it violated interstate shipping preemption and the other stated that it's description of ammunition was vague and ambiguous. The latter won and the former was mooted by that. SB 427 was passed to try to remedy the ambiguousness. Governor Brown vetoed the clean up, leaving the law as is and on appeal at a California appellate court. I predict an affirmation of the current loss at the appellate level and then that we don't hear about this again for quite a while.

-Gene

Thanks Gene. I was not aware that AB 962 was still on appeal by the state. The wiki does not mention that.

Librarian
10-10-2011, 2:44 PM
gene......


does this mean a end to face to face c&r longgun sales???
c&r online longgun sales to 03ffl's???

any input or theory??

Wrong thread - 809 is the register rifles bill.

But the answer is C&R with COE is still FTF, but must be reported the way handguns are reported when bought out of state. C&R long guns bought out of state must be reported, as handguns are now.

And the current FFL-exception for 50+ year old long guns is repealed for Jan 1 2014.

zvardan
10-10-2011, 4:11 PM
I thought you could mail order long guns with C&R and COE?

stitchnicklas
10-10-2011, 7:57 PM
bump...for more answers and questions as this thread is decent

oni.dori
10-11-2011, 1:06 AM
This.

Governor Schwarzenegger signed AB-962. Two lawsuits were filed. One claimed it violated interstate shipping preemption and the other stated that it's description of ammunition was vague and ambiguous. The latter won and the former was mooted by that. SB 427 was passed to try to remedy the ambiguousness. Governor Brown vetoed the clean up, leaving the law as is and on appeal at a California appellate court. I predict an affirmation of the current loss at the appellate level and then that we don't hear about this again for quite a while.

-Gene

So our dear friend AG Harris DID appeal the AB962 defeat after all? Is there any chance that this could potentially end the seemingly endless cycle of DeLeon ammo bills if the defeat is held up in court?

X-posted from another thread:

I had been of the opinion that registration was unwinnable but Heller II is forcing me to change that opinion.:

The majority wrote starting on page 18,


The dissent concurred though Judge Kavanaugh would hold registration requirements more broadly unconstitutional,

The Heller II decision is here (http://www.cadc.uscourts.gov/internet/opinions.nsf/DECA496973477C748525791F004D84F9/$file/10-7036-1333156.pdf).

-Gene

Are you talking about only long gun, or potentially even handgun registration? Two weeks perhaps?

mrdd
10-11-2011, 5:24 PM
So our dear friend AG Harris DID appeal the AB962 defeat after all? Is there any chance that this could potentially end the seemingly endless cycle of DeLeon ammo bills if the defeat is held up in court?

I believe he is prevented from reintroducing it in the second year of the current legislative session (2012).

Bhobbs
10-11-2011, 5:29 PM
So our dear friend AG Harris DID appeal the AB962 defeat after all? Is there any chance that this could potentially end the seemingly endless cycle of DeLeon ammo bills if the defeat is held up in court?


IMO, Brown's veto message said that if AB962 is found unconstitutional, he will sign an ammo ban but since it was still being litigated, he vetoed the new bill.

HowardW56
10-11-2011, 5:34 PM
IMO, Brown's veto message said that if AB962 is found unconstitutional, he will sign an ammo ban but since it was still being litigated, he vetoed the new bill.

He didn't say that! Veto Message Below

To the Members of the California State Senate:

I am returning Senate Bill 427 without my signature,
This measure would amend a recently enacted law concerning the sale and purchase of handgun ammunition, That law is currently being litigated,

Let's kcep our powder dry on amendments until the court case runs its course,

Sincerely.
GOVERNOR

Bhobbs
10-11-2011, 5:36 PM
He didn't say that! Veto Message Below

To the Members of the California State Senate:

I am returning Senate Bill 427 without my signature,
This measure would amend a recently enacted law concerning the sale and purchase of handgun ammunition, That law is currently being litigated,

Let's kcep our powder dry on amendments until the court case runs its course,

Sincerely.
GOVERNOR

He didn't say it outright. He is saying wait until the litigation is over before they amend it.

HowardW56
10-11-2011, 6:07 PM
He didn't say it outright. He is saying wait until the litigation is over before they amend it.

Can I borrow that crystal ball?

You are interpreting it how you see fit, that isn't what it says....

Bhobbs
10-11-2011, 6:28 PM
Can I borrow that crystal ball?

You are interpreting it how you see fit, that isn't what it says....

I don't have a crystal ball but I predicted he would sign the bills and he did. If you take the position that a politician will screw you over every time you are rarely wrong. Especially when you live in a state that is majority against you.

What does "Let's keep our powder dry on amendments until the court case runs its course," mean to you if not that he will sign a bill should 962 be ruled unconstitutional again?

CaliforniaLiberal
10-11-2011, 8:46 PM
What I've been imagining is Jerry sitting down secretly with our 2nd Amendment Civil Rights lobbyists and saying. "I can afford to veto the gun bill most important to you. Pick one." And SB 427 was obviously the most objectionable of all the bills. The others were all more "Superficial" limits to our Civil Rights.

Maybe in 20 years some JB staffer will write a book and we'll find the actual story.


Sac Bee Article

http://www.sacbee.com/2011/10/11/3973834/jerry-browns-bill-actions-frustrate.html#storylink=omni_popular

"Brown once compared successful politicking to paddling a canoe, both to the left and to the right, and his record of frustrating lawmakers of his own party is long. When asked Monday if there were any inconsistencies in his veto and signing messages, Brown said there were not."

Inoxmark
10-11-2011, 9:05 PM
What I've been imagining is Jerry sitting down secretly with our 2nd Amendment Civil Rights lobbyists and saying. "I can afford to veto the gun bill most important to you. Pick one."
No, what I am picturing is gov Brown reading these posts right now and having no idea why some Calguns members consider him pro- or even just sympathetic to gun rights.

CaliforniaLiberal
10-11-2011, 9:18 PM
No, what I am picturing is gov Brown reading these posts right now and having no idea why some Calguns members consider him pro- or even just sympathetic to gun rights.


Some CalGuns members consider him pro- or even just sympathetic to 2nd Amendment Civil Rights because of statements made by trusted and informed other CalGuns members who have sources of information and perhaps even personal connections that I do not have.

I have faith.