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send it_hit
10-10-2011, 1:56 AM
So I'm putting together my first AR. I'll be bailing the CMMG stripped lower out of jail later today, so I need to get my parts list in mind. I will be building it in 6.8 SPC, and probably in pieces over time. I would love to get a Daniel Defense upper, but I just don't have the money. So it will be done piece by piece... but I need some clarification.

First, here are the parts I have in mind:

LOWER:
CMMG lower (stripped)
Daniel Defense LPK
Magpul MOE stock
Magpul 10rounder
??Buffer tube/spring??

UPPER:
Daniel Defense 16" 6.8 SPS mid-length CHF barrel (stripped)
Daniel Defense A4 upper receiver
Daniel Defense complete BCG
Daniel Defense charging handle
Daniel Defense Omega X 7.0 Rail
Daniel Defense flip-up sights
??muzzle device??


I know I'm missing a muzzle brake/flash hider and buffer. But basically, what I need to know is:

Are BCG's separated by caliber? Seems like they would be but I don't know a ton about AR's and on DD's website their BCG, just says that... BCG.

Are the only "caliber-sensitive parts" the barrel, muzzle device, and potentially the BCG?

Can anyone recommend a good buffer tube/spring assembly? are these a dime a dozen or is there something to look for?

Am I missing any other parts?

thanks guys

RRichie09
10-10-2011, 2:14 AM
Your missing

buffer
castle nut
end plate

gas block or front sight post
gas tube
forward assist assembly
ejection port assembly


6.8 requires
a caliber specific bolt, the bolt carrier is the same as a 5.56
a caliber specific barrel
a caliber specific muzzle device
a caliber specific magazine


Buffer tubes come in two sizes milspec or commercial. Get the milspec just based on the fact that its more common.

Why a DD charging handle? Its just a standard CH. Look into the BCM/Vltor Gunfighter CH, its actually a better design.

motorwerks
10-10-2011, 2:58 AM
what he said. :D

tuna quesadilla
10-10-2011, 3:31 AM
Your missing

buffer
castle nut
end plate

gas block or front sight post
gas tube
forward assist assembly
ejection port assembly


6.8 requires
a caliber specific bolt, the bolt carrier is the same as a 5.56
a caliber specific barrel
a caliber specific muzzle device
a caliber specific magazine


Buffer tubes come in two sizes milspec or commercial. Get the milspec just based on the fact that its more common.

Why a DD charging handle? Its just a standard CH. Look into the BCM/Vltor Gunfighter CH, its actually a better design.

Does the DD upper come completely stripped? On their website it is depicted with the FA and dust cover.

jgraham15
10-10-2011, 4:03 AM
I wouldn't use this barrel! Do your research before you buy a 6.8 barrel.

Definitely spend some time on http://www.68forums.com

Do your research and don't be afraid to ask as many questions as needed before you lay down the cash for the barrel.




ETA: Barrel specs are from DD's site here - https://danieldefense.com/16-6-8mm-s2w-mid-length-chf-barrel-stripped.html



16" 6.8MM SPC S2W MID-LENGTH CHF BARREL - STRIPPED

SKU DD-10208
Barrel Configuration Stripped
Barrel Length 16"
Manuf. Process Cold Hammer Forged
Twist Rate 1:10 I would go with a 1:11 or 1:12 twist rate!
Muzzle Thread 5⁄824 TPI (Threads Per Inch)
Material Chrome Moly Vanadium
Outside Finish Mil-Spec Heavy Phosphate
Diameter At Gas Port .750″
Chrome Lined No
Barrel Extension A4
Profile S2W [Strength 2 Weight]
Gas System Mid-length
Barrel Caliber 6.8mm SPC Make sure this has a SPC II Chamber!
Manufacturer Daniel Defense



Here is good thread that is going right now that will help with chamber info: http://68forums.com/forums/showthread.php?23734-Understanding-chambering


Here is an old thread on chamber and twist info: http://68forums.com/forums/showthread.php?840-2008-6.8SPC-PERFORMANCE-TEST-follow-up-report-now-posted


Good luck and if you need any info shoot me a PM. I have built a few 6.8's so I've learned what not to use :facepalm:

jgraham15
10-10-2011, 4:08 AM
Does the DD upper come completely stripped? On their website it is depicted with the FA and dust cover.


I have used 2 DD upper receivers on builds and both have come with FA and dust cover.

Can't say I've seen a DD stripped upper receiver but they could be out there.

dascoyne
10-10-2011, 5:44 AM
Why a 7.0 rail with flip up front sights? It seems like you've got an unnecessarily short sight radius. Why not have fixed front sight or longer rail?

tomd1584
10-10-2011, 7:25 AM
A 7.0 rail will not work with a midlength gas system. You'll need atleast a 9".

And best to my knowledge, DD doesnot make flip up irons.

RRichie09
10-10-2011, 8:58 AM
Does the DD upper come completely stripped? On their website it is depicted with the FA and dust cover.

Didn't know that. Thanks


A 7.0 rail will not work with a midlength gas system. You'll need atleast a 9".

And best to my knowledge, DD doesnot make flip up irons.

Good catch. For a midlength system a 9" rail will end right before the gas block allowing a front sight post to be installed. A 10" rail will require a low profile gas block and will just fail to cover the entire gas block unless the gas block is shorter than usual. An 11" rail will be slightly extend past the gas block and also requie a low profile gas block.

fcr
10-10-2011, 11:59 AM
Why not the DD barrel ? You ever see one, use it ? This is directed to Jgraham15. Because of the 1:10 twist ?

Knife Edge
10-10-2011, 2:00 PM
Price one already built up. I spent $350 shy of a LWRC on my custom 14.5" build and only gained an LMT stock vs the gas piston AR I would've had with the LWRC. Unless you are going to change out more than a few things, factory seems to be the better deal, especially with a company like DD when it is already CHF and mil-spec or Larue, match grade and TX-spec ;)

Noah3683
10-10-2011, 2:09 PM
I have a DD 6.8 and it's friggin stellar. The chamber is more of the issue you need to worry about and it's SPC II so good to go. This is the barrel I have

https://danieldefense.com/cold-hammer-forged-barrels/16-inch-chf-barrels/16-6-8-spc-mid-length-chf-barrel-stripped.html

fcr
10-10-2011, 2:48 PM
I have a DD 6.8 and it's friggin stellar. The chamber is more of the issue you need to worry about and it's SPC II so good to go. This is the barrel I have

https://danieldefense.com/cold-hammer-forged-barrels/16-inch-chf-barrels/16-6-8-spc-mid-length-chf-barrel-stripped.html

The guys at the 6.8 forum, have done a ton of testing. You should read what they have to say just for info. I do respect what they have to say.
I have always wanted a build with the DD barrel, I have not seen one anywhere, and figured it was the elusive chupacabra.
I am itching to build again and would like to put together a 6.8 in a 14.5" or 16". Main use is out to 300yrds and I want knockdown power. Paper is getting stronger lately.

send it_hit
10-10-2011, 6:35 PM
Your missing

buffer
castle nut
end plate

gas block or front sight post
gas tube
forward assist assembly
ejection port assembly


6.8 requires
a caliber specific bolt, the bolt carrier is the same as a 5.56
a caliber specific barrel
a caliber specific muzzle device
a caliber specific magazine


Buffer tubes come in two sizes milspec or commercial. Get the milspec just based on the fact that its more common.

Why a DD charging handle? Its just a standard CH. Look into the BCM/Vltor Gunfighter CH, its actually a better design.

Thanks. Noob question, but I thought the gas block was only necessary in a piston upper? Isn't the gas vented in the bolt assembly? Also, no specific reason for the DD charging handle. Just figured why not stick to one brand.

Why a 7.0 rail with flip up front sights? It seems like you've got an unnecessarily short sight radius. Why not have fixed front sight or longer rail?

Basically, because I don't know what I'm doing haha. Longer rail I'd be okay with, I just really really dislike the fixed front sight aesthetically.

On the subject of the barrel, I've heard awesome things about the DD barrels. Any specific reason to avoid it?

fcr
10-10-2011, 6:50 PM
I have DD barrels on a few of my rifles and they work well for me. Since it is in 6.8 SPC that you are going to build in, it is still evolving. Read the posts the were put up on the 6.8 forum really good info. As far as what I can see, the twist rate of 1:10 vs 1:11 is what is being referred to. The DD has the SAMMI II chamber and a 1:10 twist. Seems the newer data says that you can get better performance from a 1:11, also a bit different chamber is being used.
I want to build using a DD barrel. I asked on another thread if anyone had ever seen one or used it, your thread produced a Yes.

Noah3683
10-10-2011, 6:52 PM
The guys at the 6.8 forum, have done a ton of testing. You should read what they have to say just for info. I do respect what they have to say.
I have always wanted a build with the DD barrel, I have not seen one anywhere, and figured it was the elusive chupacabra.
I am itching to build again and would like to put together a 6.8 in a 14.5" or 16". Main use is out to 300yrds and I want knockdown power. Paper is getting stronger lately.

Yeah, I respect their research, but seriously twist rate wars are overhyped for the majority of shooters. My DD has fired absolutely every load I have put through it, and it's dead nuts accurate. I would not worry about it too much if I were the OP.

Noah3683
10-10-2011, 6:54 PM
Keep in mind I like to load a little hotter so 1:10 is probably perfect for me anyway

Noah3683
10-10-2011, 6:59 PM
Thanks. Noob question, but I thought the gas block was only necessary in a piston upper? Isn't the gas vented in the bolt assembly? Also, no specific reason for the DD charging handle. Just figured why not stick to one brand.



Basically, because I don't know what I'm doing haha. Longer rail I'd be okay with, I just really really dislike the fixed front sight aesthetically.

On the subject of the barrel, I've heard awesome things about the DD barrels. Any specific reason to avoid it?
For you being a noob especially, NO.... While 1:11 MAY be more performance capable in the long run, the DD 1:10 will serve you fine, and likely outperform you the shooter anyway. the twist rate differences are really moot for most typical shooters. For those looking, I will see if I can dig up the link to where I got my barrel.

send it_hit
10-10-2011, 7:00 PM
I'm not super concerned about the twist rate. I already have a bolt action rifle for the discipline of precision rifle shooting. This rifle will be more for fun, throwing a lotta lead downrange :)

fcr
10-10-2011, 7:01 PM
Noah, did you get yours as a stripped barrel ? If you did where did you get it from ?

Noah3683
10-10-2011, 7:24 PM
Noah, did you get yours as a stripped barrel ? If you did where did you get it from ?

Yes and I'm hunting my browser history and paper receipts now

Noah3683
10-10-2011, 7:36 PM
I'n not sure of current stock status, mine took about 3 weeks from backorder back at the start of August but I found it:

http://www.topnotchtactical.com/content-product_info/product_id-2719/daniel_defense_chf_barrels_6_8_spc.html

Excuse me, my mistake... got it at Alamotactical.com because I had found a better price, but I got some other parts from topnotch. Looks like Alamo is temporarily closed though

fcr
10-10-2011, 7:39 PM
I have an email to them already. I want to know if they are in stock. Thanks for the work.

jgraham15
10-10-2011, 8:37 PM
Keep in mind I like to load a little hotter so 1:10 is probably perfect for me anyway


This is why you should use a slower twist rate on your barrel. The point of the SPC II camber and the 1:11 twist rate wasn't to improve accuracy.

On a 5.56 barrel twist rate is all about being able to shoot a particular length/weight bullet more accurately.

On the 6.8 barrel the slower twist rate was developed to bring the chamber pressures down so you could use hotter loads and increase velocity.

If companies like Ruger and Daniel Defense (there are a couple others but I can't remember who they are at the moment) would change the specs of their barrels to 1:11 twist with spc II chambers it would allow the ammo manufacturers to load hotter rounds for us.

The reason Silver State Armory had to tame down their "Combat Loads" which they now refer to as "Tactical loads" is because of people using them in non-spc II chambers and using 1:9.5 and 1:10 twist barrels. So now we are left with a mediocre "Tactical Load".

jgraham15
10-10-2011, 8:45 PM
OP, it's your money so spend it how you want but for less money you can get a White Oak Armament barrel with the proper specs.

I have nothing against Daniel Defense and I use their parts for a lot of builds but until they get their sh*t together with their 6.8 barrels I will not buy or recommend one.

fcr
10-10-2011, 9:00 PM
My second choice is a WOA with a headspaced bolt from Raineer.

Noah3683
10-10-2011, 9:20 PM
Even having the DD I agree that white oak is a better value

Noah3683
10-10-2011, 9:24 PM
This is why you should use a slower twist rate on your barrel. The point of the SPC II camber and the 1:11 twist rate wasn't to improve accuracy.

On a 5.56 barrel twist rate is all about being able to shoot a particular length/weight bullet more accurately.

On the 6.8 barrel the slower twist rate was developed to bring the chamber pressures down so you could use hotter loads and increase velocity.

If companies like Ruger and Daniel Defense (there are a couple others but I can't remember who they are at the moment) would change the specs of their barrels to 1:11 twist with spc II chambers it would allow the ammo manufacturers to load hotter rounds for us.

The reason Silver State Armory had to tame down their "Combat Loads" which they now refer to as "Tactical loads" is because of people using them in non-spc II chambers and using 1:9.5 and 1:10 twist barrels. So now we are left with a mediocre "Tactical Load".
I guess you are right, in my initial research I was led to believe 1:10 would be better for me. Either way, it fits my purpose and works outstanding, so I have no intention of making any changes there. I don't shoot 6.8 nearly as much as my other calibers so I couldn't justify swapping barrels when it meets my needs and I'd rather tinker with/add other weapons

jgraham15
10-10-2011, 9:33 PM
I guess you are right, in my initial research I was led to believe 1:10 would be better for me. Either way, it fits my purpose and works outstanding, so I have no intention of making any changes there. I don't shoot 6.8 nearly as much as my other calibers so I couldn't justify swapping barrels when it meets my needs and I'd rather tinker with/add other weapons

If it's working for you I definitely wouldn't change it. I just wanted the OP to do his research and figure out what was best for him. The 6.8 is very confusing when you first get into it!

Noah3683
10-10-2011, 9:37 PM
Lol yes it is

RRichie09
10-10-2011, 9:44 PM
Thanks. Noob question, but I thought the gas block was only necessary in a piston upper? Isn't the gas vented in the bolt assembly?


No, here is a picture of the type of gas block you would want if you don't want a front sight post.

http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=30667&prev=1



Also if its just for shooting lead down range why not just get it in 5.56? The ammo is a lot cheaper.

Is this the look you're going for?
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/LaRueRecce.JPG

jgraham15
10-10-2011, 9:51 PM
One thing that hasn't been brought up yet is magazine availability.

Since C-Products went out of business it has been very hard to find inexpensive 6.8 mags.

A company called ASC is making mags on C-Products old equipment and so far I've had good luck with the few I've used.

Here are a couple links to them -

First one is Hamlund Tactical. Great company and they will ship mags as rebuild kits to California for no extra charge. Just put a note in the memo box when you check out that you want rebuild kits.
https://hamlundtactical.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=118_249&products_id=2238&zenid=7c3d24a90dbd5f6117979b82e5699dda


Second one is Exile Tactical. Another great California friendly company!
https://www.exilemachine.net/shop/mag-asc-ar6-8-10rd-sts-blk-2030.html

You will notice both companies are out of stock on the 10 round mags at the moment.




Now if you reload your best choice at the moment is the PRI mag. It allows you to load the bullet to the most length (you can use more powder or longer bullets and still fit them in the mag). They are pricey though!
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=23320/avs%7CManufacturer_1=PRECISION%20REFLEX,%20INCxzzx/ttver=1/Product/AR-15-M16-6-8mm-MAGAZINE





D&H has come out with a new 25 round mag but I haven't received mine yet so I can't comment on how they work. Of course you would have to buy them as rebuild kits and block them to 10 rounds.
https://hamlundtactical.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=118_249&products_id=2993

https://www.44mag.com/product/6_8_25_magazine/6_8_ar15_magazines

fcr
10-10-2011, 10:53 PM
I was going to ask about what is out there for Mags. Didn't know C products took a flyer. Thanks for the link, I feel the 6,8 is gaining some traction. I had a Stag upper for awhile but it got insane trying to find ammo a few years ago so I traded it for an optic.

send it_hit
10-10-2011, 11:15 PM
No, here is a picture of the type of gas block you would want if you don't want a front sight post.

http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=30667&prev=1



Also if its just for shooting lead down range why not just get it in 5.56? The ammo is a lot cheaper.

Is this the look you're going for?
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/mstn/LaRueRecce.JPG


That's a lot closer to the look, yep. Probably not a magnified scope yet, wanna learn to shoot irons first.

As far as 5.56, basically it never really got me excited. I just started reloading so 6.8 shouldn't be a problem pricewise. I know it sounds weird but I have always liked not having the same thing as everyone else :) also may sound weird but I like a little more thump and recoil.

Plus, already have a rifle in .223 and I want to learn about different calibers and ballistics.

RRichie09
10-11-2011, 12:32 AM
That's a lot closer to the look, yep. Probably not a magnified scope yet, wanna learn to shoot irons first.

As far as 5.56, basically it never really got me excited. I just started reloading so 6.8 shouldn't be a problem pricewise. I know it sounds weird but I have always liked not having the same thing as everyone else :) also may sound weird but I like a little more thump and recoil.

Plus, already have a rifle in .223 and I want to learn about different calibers and ballistics.

Your two points do not sound weird at all. I was just thinking since its your first AR it would be better go down the beaten path but you have great points.

Goodluck with the build. Do you have a bench vise and a torque wrench? You're also gonna need some other specialized tools to do the job right.

send it_hit
10-11-2011, 12:53 AM
Your two points do not sound weird at all. I was just thinking since its your first AR it would be better go down the beaten path but you have great points.

Goodluck with the build. Do you have a bench vise and a torque wrench? You're also gonna need some other specialized tools to do the job right.

Thanks! And no I don't, but I will have access to them. Also, piecing everything together and seeing prices, I'm starting to think of just buying a complete upper eventually. I want to do it piece by piece to learn and get exactly what I want, but as a noob i don't even know what it is that I want.

I guess I'll figure it out in the next few weeks. Thanks for your help!