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View Full Version : In the market for a new RDS


squee116
10-09-2011, 11:50 PM
Hi all,

I'm just about to sell my old Eotech, and I've been looking to expand my horizons and try a new optic.

I've currently got a Primary Arms Micro red dot mounted to my AK, but I want put something a little but higher up the quality food chain on my AR.

The lucky four I've been contemplating -
1)Aimpoint 9000sc(2MOA)
2)Aimpoint Comp C3
3)Vortex SPARC
4)Vortex Strikefire

Attributes I consider important:

-Price is a bit of an issue for me. I'm trying to keep it under 450 total. I know(pretty sure at least) the Vortex's come with mounts, and most C3's I've seen come with mounts as well. The only one I'd really be concerned with is the 9000sc, but from what I could tell in the technical details, 30mm rings that I would use for scopes and such should work fine right? So in that department, I don't mind going a bit past 450 for quality rings, as I can use them elsewhere should I want to.

-Quality is big thing for me right now. I don't have any "bet your life" optics. And frankly, I can't say that I ABSOLUTELY need them. But it'd be nice to know that I was at least scraping the bottom of that barrel with this purchase. Fit, finish, etc., are important, but most important for me are reliability and functionality. If I can get those two, I'll toss the rest right out the window.

-Cross functionality is a big thing for me as well. I don't want to have to buy a new sight for every gun I get(at least not right of the bat ;) ) It'd be nice to know the proposed sight works well on AKs, ARs, shotguns, of varying calibers or gauges. If I throw down 450, it had best serve me well.

-Value/dollar is my final test. I don't know anyone locally with these toys, so my decision will be based purely off of research and reviews. I'm hoping to be convinced that for 200 dollars a Vortex will get the job done, or conversely, that for the extra 225, the Aimpoint will serve me well.

When convincing me, please refer to the characteristics I will basing this future purchase off of. I know few other resources as knowledgable (and opinionated) as the collection of users on Calguns, so I appreciate all the input you have to give, even if it includes telling me I'm a newb focusing on the wrong makes, models, or manufacturers. Optics fascinate me, but I have nearly no knowledge of the subject in terms of depth or breadth, as most of my time goes to studying for exams, not firearm accessories :o.

squee116
10-10-2011, 6:21 AM
Also, the possibility of 1-4x scopes are not thrown out, but I'm leaning towards RDS.

mreed
10-10-2011, 2:23 PM
why are you selling eotech? just curious because i really want one,


have you looked at the burris tac30? i am considering that one right now, it is a 1-4 scoppe, pretty good quality. 300$

squee116
10-10-2011, 3:56 PM
I'm getting rid of my Eotech because I have so many different platforms I'll want to mount this optic on. Eotech's built in mount is great for an AR, but not all weapon systems have the same cheek-weld height. I'd prefer something that, even though it will cost more money, will have more mounting options available to make it usable on just about any weapon I want to mount it on.(M1A, AR15, Shotgun, Lever Action, AK, etc)

I just don't get those kinds of options with an Eotech as it typically sits too high, not too low on those platforms.

I have eyeballed the tac30. I've always been intrigued by Burris's stuff, and was really thinking about getting a fastfire II. My only issue with scopes is that they are not parallax free, and I love that a red dot is made such that where the red dot is, the bullet will hit. With scopes you have to have them properly aligned. Again I'm open to them, but I have to be persuaded as to why. If Tac30s are reliable beasts, with great performance and such, I could be persuaded.

squee116
10-12-2011, 6:24 PM
Just found a deal for the Aimpoint PRO and LT-150 for 547 shipped. Is that a good deal?

Gatordev
10-12-2011, 6:30 PM
Just found a deal for the Aimpoint PRO and LT-150 for 547 shipped. Is that a good deal?

An Aimpoint PRO comes with its own mount and can be had for ~$400 online. A Larue mount is about $110-150, so that's not a bad price, but more than you would have to spend initially for just the optic (that's ready to shoot).

I have two PROs, one on my SBR and one on a 16". I like them very much.

squee116
10-12-2011, 6:38 PM
Does the Aimpoint mount work 1/3 lower cowitness?

pacifico23
10-12-2011, 7:37 PM
Squee,
How has the primary arms micro dot been mounted on the AK? I just purchased a MI ak minidot mount. Any problems with it so far on the ak?

shooterfpga
10-12-2011, 7:43 PM
i might get an aimpoint pro, i dunno. i'd ideally like something with a BDC reticle though.

esskay
10-12-2011, 7:45 PM
I'm getting rid of my Eotech because I have so many different platforms I'll want to mount this optic on. Eotech's built in mount is great for an AR, but not all weapon systems have the same cheek-weld height. I'd prefer something that, even though it will cost more money, will have more mounting options available to make it usable on just about any weapon I want to mount it on.(M1A, AR15, Shotgun, Lever Action, AK, etc)

I just don't get those kinds of options with an Eotech as it typically sits too high, not too low on those platforms.

I have eyeballed the tac30. I've always been intrigued by Burris's stuff, and was really thinking about getting a fastfire II. My only issue with scopes is that they are not parallax free, and I love that a red dot is made such that where the red dot is, the bullet will hit. With scopes you have to have them properly aligned. Again I'm open to them, but I have to be persuaded as to why. If Tac30s are reliable beasts, with great performance and such, I could be persuaded.

Just remember that a typical Aimpoint like a Pro or a 3 series can only get you just a little bit lower than an Eotech. You'd have to look at the H-1/T-1 to really get low enough to not have some sort of cheek weld issues on some of the other weapon systems that you mentioned.

squee116
10-12-2011, 7:50 PM
Squee,
How has the primary arms micro dot been mounted on the AK? I just purchased a MI ak minidot mount. Any problems with it so far on the ak?

I haven't been able to take out the AK yet, but from I can see, there is some serious bleeding going on. I thought it was my eyes at first, but the dot seems to have a small blob to the left only. BUT, once I shoot it, I'll make decision. It''s be hard to decide until then.

pacifico23
10-12-2011, 7:52 PM
I haven't been able to take out the AK yet, but from I can see, there is some serious bleeding going on. I thought it was my eyes at first, but the dot seems to have a small blob to the left only. BUT, once I shoot it, I'll make decision. It''s be hard to decide until then.

Argh. I have the same problem with my old Primary Arms M3 style red dot. Yeah, I may just pony up the extra cash for the t-1 in the upcoming months.

squee116
10-12-2011, 7:53 PM
Just remember that a typical Aimpoint like a Pro or a 3 series can only get you just a little bit lower than an Eotech. You'd have to look at the H-1/T-1 to really get low enough to not have some sort of cheek weld issues on some of the other weapon systems that you mentioned.

Thanks, I do appreciate the input on that. I figured the difference in height would be bigger. There other things besides that, to which I prefer attributes of the aimpoint, but now that I think on it, height wouldn't be TOO big a deal unless I got micro.

Gatordev
10-16-2011, 9:08 PM
Does the Aimpoint mount work 1/3 lower cowitness?

It's not a "true" 1/3 co-witness. If you poke around m4carbine.net, Grant talks a little about where it actually sits (when it came out). I believe the Larue will be true 1/3, correct?

Practically speaking, if a dot isn't co-witnessed, does it matter if it's 1/3 lower or "other?" Or are you speaking from a cheek-weld standpoint?

squee116
10-17-2011, 1:21 PM
More as a matter of how much of the view the sight is blocking out. I'll probably be taking it out to BLM land to shoot, and don't know if I feel comfy having my BUIS block out a significant portion of the view if I have to worry about ATVs or hikers or something in the area.

esskay
10-17-2011, 10:07 PM
More as a matter of how much of the view the sight is blocking out. I'll probably be taking it out to BLM land to shoot, and don't know if I feel comfy having my BUIS block out a significant portion of the view if I have to worry about ATVs or hikers or something in the area.

The lower 1/3 co-witness is preferred by many people for a couple reasons, including a less cluttered optic when you have fixed iron sights and a little more "heads up" cheek weld.

With a red dot sight, you should have both eyes open and target-focus, so whether you have absolute or lower 1/3 co-witness should not impact your field of vision. The co-witnessing issue is more around preference on sight picture & cheek weld as I mentioned.

squee116
10-18-2011, 6:52 AM
I have a hard time keeping both eyes open when looking through a sight. My eyes start feeling strained and it's hard to focus after about half an hour of pretty continuous use. Not to say it can't be done, and I do try to do it that way, but I find myself closing my other eye a lot of the time.

esskay
10-18-2011, 10:54 AM
I have a hard time keeping both eyes open when looking through a sight. My eyes start feeling strained and it's hard to focus after about half an hour of pretty continuous use. Not to say it can't be done, and I do try to do it that way, but I find myself closing my other eye a lot of the time.

I can see what you're saying in particular with a traditional type of scope (which can also be used with both eyes open, I do this even at magnification, but it requires much more acclimation), but a red dot should not present you with these issues. It will probably take some practice for you to get used to it, but the entire Aimpoint or Eotech should not really be "in view" consciously.

Try this -- Get your rifle with your Eotech on it. Hold it at low ready. Keep both eyes open and focus on a target some distance away. Keep your eyes focused on that target. Raise and shoulder the weapon and let the sight pop up in front of the target. Do not change your focus from the target. The housing of the Eotech or Aimpoint should be totally fuzzy, not in focus. Don't pay any attention to the fuzzy sight housing. The red reticle should just be floating on top of the target now.

squee116
10-18-2011, 8:55 PM
Does it help if the sight is further along the rail or closer to the eye?

esskay
10-20-2011, 8:34 AM
Does it help if the sight is further along the rail or closer to the eye?

Seems to be personal preference... try it both ways!

Gatordev
10-20-2011, 12:21 PM
The lower 1/3 co-witness is preferred by many people for a couple reasons, including a less cluttered optic when you have fixed iron sights and a little more "heads up" cheek weld.

With a red dot sight, you should have both eyes open and target-focus, so whether you have absolute or lower 1/3 co-witness should not impact your field of vision. The co-witnessing issue is more around preference on sight picture & cheek weld as I mentioned.

That's kind of what I was getting at. You said it more eloquently than I would have been able to.

ejhc11
10-20-2011, 1:30 PM
OP you mentioned parallax,

here is some info:
Eotech's parallax is around 22yds (the closest for any optical device unless it has an AO)
All other red dots including Aimpoints are set for 50yds

squee116
10-20-2011, 8:51 PM
I did not know that. In the description for their products, Aimpoints mark them as parallax free.

MrPlink
10-21-2011, 3:09 AM
the parallax only occurs at close range if you are putting the dot on the extreme edges of the objective

amd64
10-29-2011, 4:10 PM
If you want quality and "bet your life" 1x optics, get the Aimpoint Comp C3 or Pro.