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View Full Version : MSNBC: IS GUN CONTROL RACIST?


vladbutsky
10-09-2011, 8:38 PM
Adam Winkler seems to get a lot of traction on liberal news sites lately, that is really good!

http://powerwall.msnbc.msn.com/politics/is-gun-control-racist-1703831.story

If you browse the gun rights websites for only a few minutes, you're sure to find the claim: “Gun control is racist.” The statement seems absurd: African-Americans favor gun control at substantially higher rates than whites. The gun fatality rate for blacks far exceeds that for whites. And one of the few places you can easily find virulent racist literature is at a gun show. In what bizarro world is gun control racist?

Actually, the gun rights websites are on to something. As I discovered in researching my new book Gunfight: The Battle over the Right to Bear Arms in America, for much of our history, gun regulation has been tainted by the stains of racism and discrimination. Today, the story is more complex than the simplistic slogans of gun rights advocates. But there is no denying that racial politics have profoundly shaped America's gun laws.

Ubermcoupe
10-09-2011, 8:43 PM
So that's why im denied certain rights... :facepalm:

In all seriousness, I may agree with some of the history he presents but my most recent GS trip contradicts this. I was taken back by the diversity(including wonen)in the crowd that day and were all fighting the same cause. :thumbsup:

tankerman
10-09-2011, 9:37 PM
Adam Winkler

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http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS2KSClalD9bYIO5H9X-3JW1BTJ95p-DLLNV1LDuGhjyE7SKDRe3Q71iFm9Gg

jdberger
10-09-2011, 9:57 PM
Stay tuned for a CGF event with Professor Winkler.

Librarian
10-09-2011, 10:12 PM
I dunno; MSNBC wasn't around in 1995 for The Racist Roots Of Gun Control (http://www.constitution.org/cmt/cramer/racist_roots.htm) nor in 1991 when professors Cottrol (http://www.gwu.edu/~history/people/Cottrol.cfm) and Diamond wrote their The Second Amendment: Toward an Afro-Americanist Reconsideration (http://www.guncite.com/journals/cd-recon.html).

Ricky James
10-09-2011, 10:24 PM
I'm pretty damn certain that yeas part of the minority at the last two gun shows I went to.

PS
I'm a white male.

Ricky James
10-09-2011, 10:25 PM
^I was part

Sorry, no option to edit posts while using this phone.

vladbutsky
10-09-2011, 10:26 PM
I dunno; MSNBC wasn't around in 1995 for The Racist Roots Of Gun Control (http://www.constitution.org/cmt/cramer/racist_roots.htm) nor in 1991 when professors Cottrol (http://www.gwu.edu/~history/people/Cottrol.cfm) and Diamond wrote their The Second Amendment: Toward an Afro-Americanist Reconsideration (http://www.guncite.com/journals/cd-recon.html).

I don't like MSNBC at all, but a lot of people do. And people who like it usually are for gun control. Papers like this helps us immensely because they can reach for audience we never could otherwise!

gunsandrockets
10-09-2011, 10:26 PM
Winkler is our friend? Really? I wouldn't know it from the article just linked.

True enough Winkler admits to the racist roots of gun control, but at the same time he tries to portray the NRA and conservatives in the worst possible light. He conveniently leaves out of his history the liberal hysteria during the 1960's against the supposed threat posed by right-wing groups such as the Minutemen, a hysteria which in part fueled liberal gun control efforts during that era. From his description you would think the NRA and Ronald Reagan are the parents of contemporary gun control laws.

What does Winker really want? I don't think it's respect for the RKBA (except in the most minimalist sense). I think this part of the article makes his desires clear enough, ...

"For all the wackiness you're likely to find on some gun rights websites, they should serve as a reminder about the racist roots of gun control. There's no doubt we need better and more effective gun safety laws. In pursuing them, we should be careful to avoid repeating the mistakes of the past."

Bobby Hated
10-10-2011, 4:48 AM
i'm a grad student about to finish my PhD and i was planning to write a book on the same subject.

at first i was perturbed that someone beat me to it, but on second thought, when the book comes out i'm sure i'll have plenty of material to challenge for my work. so all the better.

now back to my early morning study session...

ccmc
10-10-2011, 4:55 AM
There's a good video on the subject on youtube titled No Guns For Negroes.

vladbutsky
10-10-2011, 7:14 AM
Winkler is our friend? Really? I wouldn't know it from the article just linked.

True enough Winkler admits to the racist roots of gun control, but at the same time he tries to portray the NRA and conservatives in the worst possible light. He conveniently leaves out of his history the liberal hysteria during the 1960's against the supposed threat posed by right-wing groups such as the Minutemen, a hysteria which in part fueled liberal gun control efforts during that era. From his description you would think the NRA and Ronald Reagan are the parents of contemporary gun control laws.

What does Winker really want? I don't think it's respect for the RKBA (except in the most minimalist sense). I think this part of the article makes his desires clear enough, ...

"For all the wackiness you're likely to find on some gun rights websites, they should serve as a reminder about the racist roots of gun control. There's no doubt we need better and more effective gun safety laws. In pursuing them, we should be careful to avoid repeating the mistakes of the past."

I think you are forgetting where this article was published ;)
The audience of the MSNBC would not buy anything that would not try to justify at least some gun laws. You cannot win the argument by preaching to converted all the time we have to reach to the other side as much as possible and create an environment where people actually listen to you instead of dismissing everything you say. So Winkler shows a story in which anti-gun crowd can find some confirmation of their points which makes them more open to hear points that they try to ignore or dismiss.

jdberger
10-10-2011, 8:26 AM
Winkler is our friend? Really? I wouldn't know it from the article just linked.

True enough Winkler admits to the racist roots of gun control, but at the same time he tries to portray the NRA and conservatives in the worst possible light. He conveniently leaves out of his history the liberal hysteria during the 1960's against the supposed threat posed by right-wing groups such as the Minutemen, a hysteria which in part fueled liberal gun control efforts during that era. From his description you would think the NRA and Ronald Reagan are the parents of contemporary gun control laws.

What does Winker really want? I don't think it's respect for the RKBA (except in the most minimalist sense). I think this part of the article makes his desires clear enough, ...

"For all the wackiness you're likely to find on some gun rights websites, they should serve as a reminder about the racist roots of gun control. There's no doubt we need better and more effective gun safety laws. In pursuing them, we should be careful to avoid repeating the mistakes of the past."

No. He's not necessarily our friend - at least not like Lott, Cramer, etc. However, he does expose many of the flaws in the thinking of the gun-control proponents - and he does it from their camp.

Like it or not - YOU and I aren't going to convince the folks on the Brady side of the fence that LTCs aren't the 4th Horseman of the Apocalypse. Winkler, having already been embraced by the Bradys, can.

cmaynes
10-10-2011, 8:28 AM
yes it is racist- use that point in all discussions of it.

use every tool to paint the opposition as fascists and otherwise icky people.

ZombieTactics
10-10-2011, 8:37 AM
It should be noted that many of the areas with the strictest gun-control laws are also those with high minority populations ... D.C., Chicago, etc.

So I wonder what the logic is ... that urban minorities are somehow too stupid to own firearms and use them responsibly, while rural whites are more trustworthy? Or maybe minorities have less of a right to defend their own lives than whites?

It appears so racist on the face of it that it staggers the imagination to pretend otherwise.

JHermsen
10-10-2011, 9:15 AM
I believe there is a great similarity between "common" racism (based on ethnicity) and the anti's racist like remarks regarding gun ownership.

The knee jerk reactions, outrageous misinformation and summary judgement as "gun nuts" or other monikers used by liberals regarding the behavior and culture of gun owners is very often, akin to common racial slurs.

I have been verbally attacked in the past by anti's and I can empathize with others who have been similarly attacked merely for the color of their skin.

Point of fact, several of the folks in my town who display the "COEXIST" bumper stickers are the most vehement of anti's! Gotta love the irony in that!

Wherryj
10-10-2011, 9:35 AM
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http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS2KSClalD9bYIO5H9X-3JW1BTJ95p-DLLNV1LDuGhjyE7SKDRe3Q71iFm9Gg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XZMC1M9o04

I prefer to think of him as "Mr. Obvious".

morfeeis
10-10-2011, 9:49 AM
There's a good video on the subject on youtube titled No Guns For Negroes.
great video
http://jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/movieplay-ngn-swf.htm

CCWFacts
10-10-2011, 10:33 AM
If you browse the gun rights websites for only a few minutes, you're sure to find the claim: “Gun control is racist.” The statement seems absurd: African-Americans favor gun control at substantially higher rates than whites. The gun fatality rate for blacks far exceeds that for whites. And one of the few places you can easily find virulent racist literature is at a gun show. In what bizarro world is gun control racist?

It's a pretty complex issue.

No doubt, there are whites who buy guns and want gun rights because they desire to defend against crime. It's also established that black crime rates are substantially higher than other ethnic groups. When there was a surge of gun sales after Katrina, was it because whites were afraid of blacks, or because whites were afraid of crime and a disproportionate number of criminals happen to be black? Many people today claim that disparate outcome is proof of racism (http://www.rcselpa.org/docs/policies/Section%20III%20Evaluations/III.h%20Guidelines%20for%20Assessing%20African-American%20Students.pdf), and this is an unquestionable tenant of liberal dogma, proving that people who are armed to defend themselves are racist because that action has a disparate outcome. The question of whether disparate outcome is proof of racism is the subject of active legal battles and academic debates which are going to go on for quite a long time probably and it is closely linked to the question of whether whites who buy guns for self-defense are racist or merely rational.

At the same time is is undeniable that CCW laws (any kind of licensing laws really) were passed with the purpose of disarming minorities.

It's cool that Adam Winkler is analyzing it deeply, showing that the connections between gun control and racial issues are complex and varying over time and place.

Doheny
10-10-2011, 2:05 PM
Winkler? You mean the guy from Happy Days?


Sent from my iPhone

ccmc
10-10-2011, 2:40 PM
great video
http://jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/movieplay-ngn-swf.htm

Yes. Thanks for finding it and linking to it. This is one people like Feinstein and Schumer really need to see.

vantec08
10-10-2011, 3:11 PM
It should be noted that many of the areas with the strictest gun-control laws are also those with high minority populations ... D.C., Chicago, etc.

So I wonder what the logic is ... that urban minorities are somehow too stupid to own firearms and use them responsibly, while rural whites are more trustworthy? Or maybe minorities have less of a right to defend their own lives than whites?

It appears so racist on the face of it that it staggers the imagination to pretend otherwise.


Many people prefer to hold inanimate objects accountable rather than their own folks from their own neighborhoods because their culture screams LOSER and its part of a loser's script. They know dam well who the bangers are because its their brothers, sons, uncles, neighbors, nephews, etc.

Kid Stanislaus
10-10-2011, 3:15 PM
From his description you would think the NRA and Ronald Reagan are the parents of contemporary gun control laws.

There can be no doubting that Ronald Reagan did his part.:mad:

Librarian
10-10-2011, 4:47 PM
Winkler? You mean the guy from Happy Days?

That's HENRY Winkler.

Adam Winkler (http://www.law.ucla.edu/faculty/all-faculty-profiles/professors/Pages/adam-winkler.aspx) is a UCLA Law Prof.

Peter.Steele
10-10-2011, 5:17 PM
Winkler is our friend? Really? I wouldn't know it from the article just linked.


<snip>

What does Winker really want? I don't think it's respect for the RKBA (except in the most minimalist sense). I think this part of the article makes his desires clear enough, ...

" There's no doubt we need better and more effective gun safety laws. In pursuing them, we should be careful to avoid repeating the mistakes of the past."


This is open to far more interpretation than you're allowing for ... The part you didn't highlight is the interesting one, where he says "we should be careful to avoid repeating the mistakes of the past."

Wolverine
10-10-2011, 5:59 PM
Although it is gratifying to see this exposed, the progressives figure if their ancestors had disarmed the KKK along with the freemen then all would have been OK.

radioman
10-10-2011, 6:43 PM
I just saw that video, wow. as a little boy I was moved by Dr. King and what he had to say, I was just at the age that mom let me get my own milk out of the fridg, but I knew Dr. King was right we all had to live together. What I did not know was the part that the gun played. I book marked this video and I'm sending it out, out to my state office holder, my friends, the bradys, if they have the guts to view it. Calguns can you sticky it, who ever said gun rights were civil rights, after seeing this I know they are RIGHT.