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View Full Version : How to do a out of state PPT.


Watters Edge Design
10-09-2011, 7:40 PM
I have someone that is visiting in town that has a handgun with them that I want to purchase for PPT in CA from out of state. Sorry if this is not the correct forum. Just wanting to find out before the chance slips away. Heard there is some 30 day wait on things like this and it is an off roster gun, but was told if it is not shipped it can be transfered.

CSACANNONEER
10-09-2011, 7:53 PM
You don't. By definition a "PPT" is between two California residents. Since it's an off roster gun, unless you are exempt from the roster, you can't get it from an out of state resident unless it happens to be your parent, grandparent or child.

railroader
10-09-2011, 7:54 PM
I don't think it has to be shipped but it won't be a PPT. It would be the same transfer fees as if it was shipped from out of state. The gun would also have to be on the roster unless there was a single shot exemption. If there are hi cap mags involved the seller should give them to you disassembled prior to the transfer. That way they could be use to rebuild mags you owned prior to 2000 or for out of state use. Not somebody correct me if I am wrong.

mrdd
10-09-2011, 7:55 PM
The California PPT method only applies to state residents, buyer and seller. The transaction must go through a California FFL and the item must be on the roster.

See the wiki for more details.

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Transferring_firearms_Interstate

Watters Edge Design
10-09-2011, 8:14 PM
ok thanks everyone!

jasilva
10-09-2011, 8:18 PM
Actually the law does not say a PPT has to be between two CA residents. But DOJ has a nice little underground reg going, they directed the software maker to NOT allow out of state ID to be accepted unless the buyer is LEO. So if you know a friendly cop who might like to buy this gun and then get tired of it at some point and sell to you it would be possible....

mrdd
10-09-2011, 9:29 PM
Actually the law does not say a PPT has to be between two CA residents. But DOJ has a nice little underground reg going, they directed the software maker to NOT allow out of state ID to be accepted unless the buyer is LEO. So if you know a friendly cop who might like to buy this gun and then get tired of it at some point and sell to you it would be possible....

Does not federal law prohibit it?

18 USC 922 (a) (5)
(a) It shall be unlawful -
(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed
manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

In the case of a legal PPT you are not selling it to a licensed person (FFL), the FFL is just handling the transfer for the state and doing the paperwork required of them by being an FFL.

Librarian
10-09-2011, 10:02 PM
The actual transfer in a PPT happens from the FFL to the buyer; an out of state seller using a CA FFL to sell to a CA resident is following both Federal and CA law.

Sam Seller does not hand the firearm directly to Bob Buyer, and Bob then goes home. Rather, Sam hands the gun to Dan Dealer, and Sam goes home. 10 days later, Bob comes back and gets the gun from Dan.

mrdd
10-10-2011, 1:10 PM
Yes, I understand that in a PPT the FFL handles the transfer or delivery. But the sale is happening outside of that part of the transaction, correct?

My point is that a PPT between California residents is basically unrestricted by federal law, it is state law that mandates certain requirements, and the FFL is used to make certain those requirements are met for the transfer.

But if a non California resident tries to "sell" a firearm to a California resident via the PPT process isn't the "sale" violating the federal statute against selling across state lines since in that case the FFL never "owns" the firearm?

Or does the fact that a California FFL is involved in the transfer override the "sell" language in the federal law? If so, the statute is badly worded IMHO.

Librarian
10-10-2011, 1:33 PM
The FFL 'mediation' is what meets the requirements of Federal law.

Similarly, the CA FFL involved in a Gunbroker sale never 'owns' the firearm.

See also the wiki article on interstate transfer -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Transferring_firearms_Interstate